Home heating automation

johnpackt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985869#Comment_119985869

Thanks for the detailed response @deezell. I am gonna try it this weekend and will surely let you know how it worked out.

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119988479#Comment_119988479

Reading through the boiler installation instructions, (link below) I see nothing that indicates different operating conditions for CH or HW request, as the Vision 20 S model is a heating only boiler, it has no direct hot water heat exchanger to the hot taps. It doesn't 'know' if it heating radiators or the HW cylinder. So the only method it could deduce this is by the return temperature, which will initially be cold from the rads, but equally could be cold momentarily from the HW cylinder. The SARA mode sounds like an energy saving setting designed to maximise the condenser functionality of the boiler, but would not be ideal for HW heating, as you would require higher temperatures to heat the cylinder satisfactorily, 60° or greater. The instructions for SARA are very vague in this regard. I take it you've set temperature on the boiler dial past the 'hollow' SARA temperature dots to a fixed temperature solid dot marker, but with no change in your operation problem.

There are only two other things I can think of. One is the frost mode described in the manual, paragraph 1.8, which cycles CH at low 33-40° setting even when there is no call to the boiler, "should the temperature drop below 5°C for the main." I'm not sure what 'main' is, perhaps they mean the temperature of the incoming gas. It may be that this is kicking in erroneously due to a faulty logic or uncalibrated frost thermistor sensor in the boiler. The other factor would perhaps be water pressure, but if the dial is showing correct pressure as different zones are opened and closed, then the system must be stable. You also have a dial next to the zone valves which should match. The boiler has automatic air venting, so it's highly unlikely there is air trapped in the top of the heat exchanger, which might bring the high temperature limit stat into operation and curtail the burning. As you say, it could have been like this for some time, but I'm thinking this extreme cold is a factor, which would fit my frost protection fault theory, in that it is more likely to happen right now than in previous months.

https://www.vokera.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/vision-system-20-25-user-installation-and-servicing-manual.pdf

gillicuddy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119990032#Comment_119990032

Gent thanks for the reply very helpful iv sent out a few emails to rgi's this morning to try get one out for an hours troubleshooting iv also contacted vokera to try get an answer to why it might be doing this pressures at 1.5 bar when operating and the house is warm this morning around 21.5c so it has me baffled to be honest but id like to get to the bottom of it now , iv tried the max solid dots setting but if anything it seems to get lower in temp unless on sara it has weather comp with a sensor outside the house also , life would be easier if it just threw up an error code its a very basic boiler as you say so very little to interact with

il keep you posted when i finally get a solution to it may help others in the future

gillicuddy

I did actually just get a reply from vokera this minute

Screenshot_20221213_083903_Yahoo Mail.jpg

deezell

My money is on the frost protection, or to do with external sensors, now that you've mentioned one is connected. Best of luck!

deezell

Just seen your vokera reply. Well well.

gillicuddy

Iv probed him for a bit more information on this mytical boiler just to make sure I'm not wasting my time getting the rgi 😁

deezell

Fwiw, my son is in a new A rated, and everyone in the estate is complaining that the houses are cold. A rating should be about insulation, but SEAI are doling out A ratings based on boiler tweaks, internal door springs, materials used, while the homes are never actually measured for heat loss, draughts (huge issues) and badly sealed wall construction. Its a questionnaire, not a test, and the builders take advantage, as they always have.

gillicuddy

Not surprised In the slightest iv found quite a few niggles now and don't get me started on Windows and doors 😁 to be fair though it does hold temp really well once warmed it would never drop below 19.5 -20 overnight even if I turned the heating off at midnight I'm just looking for that classic roasting radiator when you come home boost the heat and the house is lovely and toasty in an hour

Next doors setup is adding to the confusion as his boiler operates at 65c il get to the bottom of it eventually

gillicuddy

Last reply from him I reckon

deezell

You don't have a DHW boiler, your HW is from a cylinder. There are some boilers with a secondary terminal to call for heat for HW, so the boiler can increase the flow temperature while it is pumping to the HW cylinder, but that's as far as it goes. Other boilers can direct the external motorised valves to cut CH and direct hotter water to the HW cylinder for a time. It's a fair old minefield, but over here new installs seem to favour S plan and a heat only boiler. Theres no mention in the manual of any mechanism to facilitate HW, although the diagram illustrates a 3 port valve, and the spec mentions the dimensions of a DHW 15mm connector, so there must be a system version of this boiler.

On A rating, I've had to wad insulation under my son's living room wall thermostat recessed base when I upgraded it to Tado, the external air was whistling in, the old stat never turned off the heat as it couldn't get past outside temperature. Even with the wadding, the new Tado needs an offset as the air behind the boards makes it read 2° low. Just this week I've had to make up loosely filled rockwool tubes to insert in the wall room vents. Builder used 8" pipe behind the vents in some rooms, whatever was knocking around the site I reckon. A child could climb through them. The cold draught was unstoppable even with the vent cover closed. A rated, the A stands for 'my Ar*e'.

gillicuddy

😁

Iv no wall vents thankfully they can be a massive pain in the arse I believe have seen people have to resort to blocking them up entirely during winter to block wind/noise etc , vokera are being as usefull as a waterproof teabag on this and I just can't figure it out so il just wait for a plumber at this stage and see what his opinion is on it as I don't know enough about these systems and am only learning as I go

Thanks for the help deezell learned a good bit from you much appreciated 👍

bittihuduga

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119967467#Comment_119967467

i have my drayton integrated with home assistant. i setup a sensor for daily usage.

for the last few cold days, i am seeing gas usage of 6hours downstairs and 5hours upstairs - per day. this is to keep the rooms at temp of 20degrees.

this is just based on boiler on/off and does not include the % of demand. not sure how to calculate and compare with gas hours .

deezell

Easier to just read your gas meter for a few days, unless you also use gas for cooking. The hours for upstairs and downstairs probably overlap, but the boiler would have a higher percentage On when both were calling. The Drayton hours are probably the times it actually is cycling on. The boiler itself can also cycle during a thermostat On, when it's flow temperature is reached it will stop burning but keep pumping until the flow cools or the Drayton call ends.

bittihuduga

thanks @deezell i had read read again again to understand the technical bit. what i understand is the hours i see (for eg 5hrs) does not mean gas was used for 5hrs. it could be more or less depending on boiler cycle.

i cant track the gas usage because use it for cooking too.

deezell

I suppose you could read the meter for a few hours before cooking. Also from after dinner to before breakfast, or later, assuming you're a healthy athletic type who doesn't tuck into a big fry in the morning, just avocado and muesli...

bittihuduga

hahah..no big morning feast here..thank you..thats a good suggestion..will take that readings

whatawaster

Sale agreed on a house which has a single zone system and trying to think ahead about a smart heating system.

Current house has 2 zones plus HW, and I have 2 Nest Thermostats. It works very well, but when we move i'm looking for something that will integrate with Homekit.

Would the Tado thermostat plus a Tado TRV on each radiator make putting in a zoned system pointless? Or am I missing something. Seems like it gives more fine grained control over things (heat what rooms you want, rather than heating upstairs or downstairs)?

Or am i missing something?

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120023186#Comment_120023186

TRVs on the rads would be simpler to install, splitting a single zone may be infeasible if there isn't a distinct division on the flow/return between living and beds. In a bungalow it depends entirely on where the boiler is sited and the path of the pipes through the house. With a two storey it may be split on the ground floor, meaning you could fot zone valves, but the flow and return may loop around the under the first floor timbers, going downwards through partition walls for ground floor rooms and up through the floor into the bedrooms, making it impossible to zone. Smart TRVs will solve this as you surmise.

For a full smart TRV installation, the only significant extra expense would occur if the radiators don't have mechanical TRVs on them, which means the old twist valves will have to be replaced at one end of each rad with a pin TRV valve. There's a post a few months back where the poster gave his estimate for this, but I can't remember exactly. In the order of €80 per read perhaps, not including your smart TRV head.

regedit

apologies for cross-posting. I posted this in the main heating forum as I wasn't aware of this one and someone directed me here.

My original post is here so you can see a few pics

I also posted the question on UK automated home here but to no great avail so far so wondering if anyone may be knowledgeable to help or advice. T speed up things, copy paste from teh heating forum is here:

We got the Evohome system installed some 3 years ago. Downstairs, we have underfloor heating, 4 zones and rads upstairs.

All worked well during the first year but last year and now this year, one of the UFH zones (kitchen) overheats despite the limits set on the stat and controller. Even if I set the temp limit to 16 degrees, this is disregarded and the temp goes to 23 degrees which makes the kitchen uncomfortable. The manifold alongside teh UHF pump were changed last year at a high enough cost but that didn't resolve the issue. The actuators seem to respond when needed but I find it very puzzling why the temp is not 'respected' by the controller. No issues with rads whatsoever and the hot water also works flawlessly. Some screenshots of a few days ago just in case someone can help.

I tried shutting down all zones in UFH and gradually switched them on 1 by 1 and everything responds as instructed by teh controller so totally lost

deezell

I replied on your original thread for continuity, but I'll just add here that the visible blue rings in the actuators is a sign that they are indeed open and flow will occur. You will have to check if the Evohome receiver for the kitchen zone's wireless stat is putting out 220v to the kitchen zone relay input on your uhf wiring centre, or if the wiring center has a hot output on the zone used for actuators 5 and 6, thus opening the kitchen ufh which will continue to heat regardless of the stat reading. It could be a mechanical issue in the manifold when it was replaced and the actuators were repositioned, but you will have to trace back and see are the actuators powered open despite the stat exceeding its target temperature.

Nelbert

I had a similar issue with my hall recently.... Someone shoved stuff under the stairs where the manifold is and the hall actuator was damaged and stuck open.... So despite never calling for heat itself it would get heated once any of the other zones were on.

The other possibility is a switched live that crosses between stats / actuators (I've something similar for a towel rad and bedroom rad... Towel rad can be turned on independently but also anytime the bedroom calls it gets heated too).

Glebee

My Tado app acting funny on my android phone, will only let me into some of my rads to manual turn on and off. All working on tablet and PC. Have tried reinstalling app on android phon but still getting the same issue. Anyone ever had this?

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120068115#Comment_120068115

If you go to Settings/Rooms and devices, are all the devices appearing normally? Can you blink the display on each? The fact you have full control from a Tablet and a PC suggests something is off with your phone or its connection to the Tado server. Try switching between mobile data and phone data.

Glebee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120068723#Comment_120068723

No luck with switching to mobile data. I have 6 radiator devices around the house. App on android phone only lets me into 1nr of them. Working perfect on PC, tablet and wifes iphone.

deezell

Close Tado app. In Apps/Tado, try Force stop. Then Clear Cache and Clear Data in Apps/Tado/Storage, then run it again and see if it repopulates from the server. Are all the devices appearing in Settings/Rooms and Devices in the Tado app? Can you Blink their displays?

Glebee

Tried the clear cache thing and the blink function is working. Still no luck. Strange...

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069630#Comment_120069630

Baffling. Are all the radiator Tado TRVs assigned to a room each in settings? Are there any in the same 'room' as the main Thermostat.

There isn't a lot else you can do if it's showing correctly on other devices. If you've an old Android phone with the app on it you could check how it behaves on that, or open the interface via a Web page on your phone rather than the app. The phone web interfaces are almost identical to the app. Tado support will probably see the correct interface if you send a query to them, so may be of limited assistance

They only other thing the app does differently to the web version on pc is that it implements geofencing. If you location setting is off in your phone it may put the rooms into away mode if they're configured thus, even though you're located at home, but the rooms should still show on the app pane.

deezell

Just make sure you're on version 7.10.0, I recall a while back on this thread someone posted that their app didn't automatically update, and the old version stopped working properly. A few days later that happened me and I had to manually update at the playstore. Double check you're on the latest, in case an older version of android or some glitch on your phone prevented update.

randombar

Hi All,

Just to update anyone following this thread.

Have monitoring integrated with Home Assistant now with espHome, esp32 and 4 x DHT11

https://capture.dropbox.com/uGIewKNsnCBKVVOe

https://capture.dropbox.com/Mq1UlwgBzfd2tRGT

https://capture.dropbox.com/4wLroxgjVv8dlw9g