Home heating automation
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One thing you can do is connect power to the unit, with a length of flex and a three pin plug, locate it loose near the ctc it will be replacing. You can then pair the stats and establish the Internet connection. Then you can run the app or operate the wireless stats and turn the CH zone temperatures and HW timer on and off, and check that the outputs pins of each zone go live. You can check that the stats are communicating from your preferred locations. This will establish the device is working fully before transferring the ctc connection wires to it.
The Drayton kit 3 is one of the easiest swaps to do. Its baseplate wiring is almost a match for standard 3 zone timers, so an electrician will easily identify the live, neutral and three zone output switched lives. Here are CTC baseplate wiring and Wiser baseplate to compare
CTC ESI 3 ZONE
WISER 3 ZONE
The CTC outputs live on terminals 3, 4 and 6 for HW, CH1 and CH2. (The Off pins are generally unused except with rare priority flow type installations.)
The Drayton uses terminals 2, 1 and 3 for HW. CH1 and CH2. No off terminals.
If there are mechanical wall stats for the two existing CH zones, these are either simply turned up full, or removed and their switched live wire pairs joined and insulated. Otherwise these stats will still be in the loop for each zone, and if left in and accidentally turned down, they would prevent the Drayton from turning on that zone. Good luck!
https://www.draytoncontrols.co.uk/sites/default/files/6490238_N_A4_Web-compressed.pdf
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@deezell Here is a pic of what was installed at the Gas boiler downstairs and the boiler upstairs.
upstairs at boiler
EPH TR relay
Heatlink
I can boost hot water from the app, and also set schedules for heating to come on or off. I can also turn heating on and off from app.
downstairs
They used the EPH Tr1 TR2 RF transceivers.
I don’t think they installed that relay to boost HW, as you’ve probably already gauged I have a clue with this stuff 🤣. ,The kids running around at the end when I got home and wasn’t really listening as I’m sure Plumber was looking to get out too. I just tested that I could boost water, turning heating on and off and was able to schedule heating to turn on .
How does the setup look to you? I am assuming that there is now a second zone created now?
BobbyT28
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All is clear. The Two EPH are just a wireless link from the wiring box SL out to the boiler SL in. Its possible in your old system that there was no wire to the boiler from the hotpress to fire it, as boiler was controlled locally, and the old stat just turned on the CH valve. It would have cost more in labour to run a cable than fit the transceivers. You're good to go so, abd you do have twi zone valves, so you can schedule HW only and CH only. Maybe add a few cable clips to tidy up those loose wires. These will cost you €2 for a pack in Screwfix or any hardware store.
Btw, your cylinder is a top grade insulated type. There is no great advantage in having HW timed, as it will retain its heat with tiny losses.
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Drayton wiser is perfect for easy DIY. Plenty of lads here have installed and posted. The wiser kit 3 backplate is different from other 3 zone backplates, which are not standardised. Their two zone will fit to a 6 terminal backplate and if its wired N,L,1 unused, 2 unused, 3 HW, 4 CH, then the Drayton is a drop in fit.
3 zone controllers vary quite a bit, so you will likely have to swap backplates ( see my reply a few posts back for images of common CTC/ESI controller and Drayton 3 zone.) The most you can expect to reuse is the backplate screw holes, which is actually a significant time saver.
WISER
EPH
CTC/ESI
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You have the system in the first two images below. The systemlink homezone is a bit of an outlier in terms of wall thermostat and controller-receiver. All the connections to zone valves and stats are made at the receiver, using push fit connectors for each component. This receiver is actually a wiring centre, making a neat, simple and well labelled connector centre for all the wired devices, stats, pumps and zone valves, and significantly, it provides common SL to fire the boiler from an internal isolating relay. Here's the systemlink wiring centre terminations, compared to what most installations will have as a wiring centre, ( apologies to @BobbyT28 )
The systemlink wall stat and programmer is connected to the receiver/wiring centre by a low voltage power and data cable, (black yellow green red on the right). There are no mains devices connected to this unit. External wall stats or HW cylinder stats are wired back to labelled push fit terminals in the receiver. The programmer has a built in thermostat which can be enabled or disabled. In the event you wish to uses your own wall stat. The internal stat controls the living space zone, so if enabled, the stat programmer would need to be located downstairs.
Because the receiver wiring centre is heavily integrated into your existing system of zone valves, and because the combined firing voltage for all zones may be sourced from the receiver relay, and not via the combined zone valve relay outputs, it will require a keen regard for existing wiring on the receiver when transferring control to say a Drayton receiver. You will have two options.
1. Remove the Homezone programmer and receiver in its entirety, and reconnect your zones valves, boiler SL and new 3 zone Drayton zone live outputs to a passive wiring strip connector like in the second image above, or
2. Retain the receiver as a wiring centre, with the homezone programmer set to always on for each zone. The Drayton receiver can be used to insert its three zone live SLs into the three labelled external thermostat returns of the homezone receiver zones. The Drayton will need to be powered from the same fuse circuit as the homezone receiver, which has plenty of L N spare connectors.
I'm well familiar with this Systemlink homezone, as it was the first system I installed in my own home. Later, when deciding to add a Tado smart wired stat, I opted to keep the homezone and use it for HW timing, with a Tado wired stat connected into the homezone receiver to control the living zone.
Now read on.
You might be surprised to know the the Homezone forms the basis of my control system, despite my use of Tado. It came about when I gutted the original house plumbing which had an oil boiler and an open fire back boiler clumsily cross connected, with a single mechanical timer on the oil and a pump on the back boiler with a manual wall switch. I replaced the ancient boiler and converted the back boiler to a stove, replumbed them together using this NRG zone blending manifold,
This enables isolated blending of oil boiler flow and stove flow, pumped out to three seperate zones. As the zones are pumped, not separated by zone valves (stove must always have a gravity and open loop), the system requires a controller which can fire the boiler via a single live output for any of the HW and CH stat inputs, plus a special relay to disable the oil boiler firing when the stove 'takes over', and requires at least one pumped zone to operate and dissipate stove flow. Stove also has an open gravity feed to a second coil on the HW cylinder in the event of a power cut.
For this reason, I installed a wiring center relay box, often know as a lex box. I ended up with the systemlink because it had the wall stat programmer and timer as well as the wiring centre for a knockdown price back then. (it's programmer does have a thermostat built in, as well as timing, for the living room zone, but as yours is on the landing, it's probably in the wrong place). There are four pumps in my system, plus HW thermostat, external Tado wired stat, and stove stat. I have prepped for an extra plumbed pumped zone, which could be the bedrooms, but this will involve digging concrete floors to split the single bungalow CH flow. I found it easier to use Tado TRVs to created semi zones for kitchen and master bedroom, and when I get the finger out I'll add a few more, which in my case requires swapping rad screw type valves to TRV ones. (BTW, @VinLieger posted on another forum that he was quoted €450-500 for 7 TRV valve swaps, so its nice to have a ballpark figure for this as it often comes up here). I'll change my own, all in good time.
These were my reasons for keeping the systemlink. Like you, I do get some 'funnies' on it when it's powered down in a power cut, and it often restarts with the living zone off, though its set to 'permanent on'. This, and your date problem is likely caused by a failed backup battery in the programmer processor board, which loses its settings after a certain time powered down. If I were to get rid of it, I would need to replace its receiver wiring centre with a relay equipped powered wiring centre such as this one from NRG systems
Because your system does not have a solid fuel heat source and has motorized valve zones, you could remove the Homezone and rewire (neatly) with a passive connector strip box. Unfortunately, it will be a bit more involved than just swapping the Drayton receiver for an older standard 3 zone controller, whose valves are already wired to a passive wiring centre. Perhaps post a few images of what you can see, receiver, valves, any wiring boxes etc.
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Thank you for the super detailed reply deezell. You've got quite the setup there. Really cool to see how all of the different parts come together in your customized solution.
I do like the neatness of the receiver unit but I'd like the programmer out of the picture and it seems the receiver can only be used together with the programmer. The last few weeks the programmer got stuck a bit more often after one of the zones was on and the time is also running behind after a week or so. Not sure how much longer it'll be going for.
Here are a few pics of my setup. Let me know if you need more details or if you want me to take the lid off of the receiver.
Pic1: Main overview
Pic2: Valve and receiver detail
The grey cable to the very right of the receiver appears to be coming from the programmer. The grey cables in the center - 2 come from upstairs (see pic5 below) and one goes to the boiler. White is power and black are connections to valves.
Pic3: Hot press
Grey cable to the right goes into back of programmer. Control below is for immersion heater
Pic4: Hot water tank
Pic 5: Hot water tank detail
I believe the two grey wires here are the ones that go into the middle of the receiver (see pic2)
Btw, I've been in touch with SystemLink and they mentioned the systemlex which can be used with any 230v clock (presumably that means something like the HubR?). I also got a quote for a Tado installation with 13 smart TRVs for €3,700.
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€3700. Sweet jeez.
your system is as neat as a pin. It would be a pleasure to install a 3 zone Drayton receiver here. 11 of your rads/ have TRVs, so there's no plumbing required to fit 11 smart trv heads.
If you spend €229 in Amazon for the three channel Drayton wiser kit 3 controller and two stats, and about €18 for the EPH 12 terminal passive wiring centre, https://www.plumbingproducts.ie/motorised-valves-ireland/5796-eph-wiring-centre-12-terminal-.html , a decent electrician will in a morning have the mains, zone valve cables, cylinder stat pair, the three zones' switched live from the wiser receiver hub, and the live call for heat to the boiler, all connected in to the wiring box, as well as power back to the Drayton hub. The simple diagram below for this box for a three zone S plan is easy to follow. Z1 On, Z2 On, and Z3 On are the three live outputs from CH1, CH2 and HW from the Drayton hub. ZV1, ZV2 and ZV3 are the brown actuator wires to your 3 EPH zone valves in the same order. Your two cylinder stat wires go to 8 and 9, order doesn't really matter. The remaining blue, orange and grey wires from the zone valves are combined by colour and go into 3, 5 and 10. The SL to the boiler also goes to 10, it may have a blue neutral wire also. And that's it. Stats are wireless to the hub, no wiring.
With that done and up and running, another €500 will get you 11 TRV heads, which a child could install in place of the old manual TRVs. You associate each TRV with the zone its in. Thats it. Package up your Systemlink and flog it on Donedeal.
If you prefer Tado, its almost as simple. Though Tado only have a single wireless connection from a stat to its 2 zone receiver, you can use a wired stat for the other zone if its easy to get a wire pair from the stat to the wiring centre. Im thinking there's already a set of wires from the Homezone to the programmer on the landing, and if they're mains grade, they'll do fine. Alternatively, if all your rads are going to be smart TRV equipped anyway, you can revert to a single CH zone and stat, by combining the ZV1 and ZV2 brown wires onto the single CH on live from the Tado receiver. You could do this also for the Drayton if you wish, using the €151 kit 2 stat and hub, with outputs for a single CH zone and HW. You won't need the lex box as your wiring is so orderly and complete, all the zone valves have the necessary relay, and everything is in the same space, so a passive terminal box is perfect. After you buy the stats and TRVs, you'll have nearly 3 grand left from your quote to pay the sparks for his half day!
Post edited by deezell on1 -
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ANY work that has a grant increases by the value of the grant plus vat. The grant is theirs you see, not yours. To get the measly grant you've got to get a BER cert, which is NOT an actual instrument measure of your energy retention and insuation, but a list based calculation, based on box ticking. This just lists all the stuff, internal insulation and type, ceiling insulation and depth, windows type, draught strip on doors, springs on internal doors, vents, boiler type, and so one. They arrive at a score, and you could be C or D, but your house might still be hard to heat. It was this methodology that allowed unscrupulous purveyors of cheap thermostats to swamp government and EU with puffed up stats about their products ability to 'save' energy, that sent millions in grants and energy rebates to the utility companies and their subcontractors, while the consumer got his two zone heating converted back to one, or got a €50 non smart Chinese made stat, with a sim card and an effing annual sub to pay! Shove the grant.
I'm curious when he quotes provisionally for an extra motorised valve. Did he do a site visit? I could determine from your images that your system was on the money., it has three valves, two labelled for CH and the third most certainly for the HW. The bypass valve is interesting, across the boiler loop I presume, and probably because of the possibility of having a boiler call from a zone with only a single rad open. I'm surprised your original installation didn't have a small loop or some element of this already installed, as it looks tidy and competent. This looks like the bypass to me.
Anyway, at the end of the day, you can achieve 99% of what you want by simple electrical substitution, no plumbing required. It won't be any different than what's already there, your zones can currently be fired by timer even if all the manual TRVs have closed because the house is warm, so your boiler most likely can loop the flow somewhere, before it reaches its own stat limit and cycles.
Post edited by deezell on0 -
Apologies if this is the wrong place but I’ve been looking at getting a smart thermostat installed for controlling the heating. I’m looking to be able to switch the heating on and off from my phone. I’ve gas fired central heating with standard gas boiler which is about 7 years old. The brand is Logik.
The heating also heats up my copper cylinder in the hot press providing hot water. This cylinder can also be heated up on its own by an electrical immersion switch next to it.
The switch for heating is an old timer mechanical switch which seems to be disintegrating.
what’s the best system to get me started as there is so many options and also sub-options for the type of heating system and I don’t know where to start.
I see screw fix have the hive but I’m unsure of the correct unit to purchase. Is the below correct?
My current heating switch
TIA
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this is my setup @deezell
contacted customer care..they are no clue why hub cannot call the boiler for downstairs heating only.
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