Pulled over for something I didn't do

schemingbohemia

This video might be worth looking at for the OP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ahg6qcgoay4

How many passes does the team in white make? Test your awareness and Do the Test! TFL cycling safetly advert! Count the number of passes the White team makes.

emeldc

I find it laughable that some of you think a Garda wouldn't lie. Without naming anyone, think whistleblowers, Templemore, mysterious bank accounts. Are you fcuking kidding me. Some of them are as crooked as a dogs hind leg.
Having said that maybe the OP didn't see him. But if he pulled across in front of the bike as was said, then the Garda should have caught up the the OP within a matter of seconds. The Op said he pulled up beside him 'after a few minutes'.
So was he following behind after you made your turn and pulled you over after you stopped or did he just appear out of nowhere. I think you need to analyse how long it took him to catch up if you were to have any chance of proving that (a) he wasn't there at all or (b) if he was there, that your manoeuvre wasn't dangerous. But I certainly wouldn't be of the opinion that a Garda wouldn't make sh1t up.

GM228

emeldc wrote: »

I find it laughable that some of you think a Garda wouldn't lie. Without naming anyone, think whistleblowers, Templemore, mysterious bank accounts. Are you fcuking kidding me. Some of them are as crooked as a dogs hind leg

Bad practices, exaggerated reports and a few alleged corruption scandals (which stem from higher ranks in fairness) is not comparable with an ordinary Guard on the street lieing about an alleged incident on the roadside to be fair.

emeldc wrote: »

Having said that maybe the OP didn't see him. But if he pulled across in front of the bike as was said, then the Garda should have caught up the the OP within a matter of seconds. The Op said he pulled up beside him 'after a few minutes'.
So was he following behind after you made your turn and pulled you over after you stopped or did he just appear out of nowhere. I think you need to analyse how long it took him to catch up if you were to have any chance of proving that (a) he wasn't there at all or (b) if he was there, that your manoeuvre wasn't dangerous. But I certainly wouldn't be of the opinion that a Garda wouldn't make sh1t up.

The part in bold is irrelevant, how long it took to stop the OP does not prove the Guard was/wasn't there in the first place, all it proves is that they stopped them, there is no timeframe required to make a stop, also weather or not the manouvre was dangerous or not is irrelevant as that isn't an ingredient in the charge of driving without due care and consideration.



Imagine the evidence in court:-

Guard: I was present at the time of the incident judge.

Accused: I didn't see him and it took X amount of time to stop me so he must not have been there

The Guards testimony would be all the proof required.

delboythedub

Was he wearing his hivis jacket
and headlight on bike switched on. That's why dashcams are handy

tayto lover

emeldc wrote: »

I find it laughable that some of you think a Garda wouldn't lie. Without naming anyone, think whistleblowers, Templemore, mysterious bank accounts. Are you fcuking kidding me. Some of them are as crooked as a dogs hind leg.
Having said that maybe the OP didn't see him. But if he pulled across in front of the bike as was said, then the Garda should have caught up the the OP within a matter of seconds. The Op said he pulled up beside him 'after a few minutes'.
So was he following behind after you made your turn and pulled you over after you stopped or did he just appear out of nowhere. I think you need to analyse how long it took him to catch up if you were to have any chance of proving that (a) he wasn't there at all or (b) if he was there, that your manoeuvre wasn't dangerous. But I certainly wouldn't be of the opinion that a Garda wouldn't make sh1t up.

Why would a traffic garda make that up? What would he gain from it?

emeldc

GM228 wrote: »

Imagine the evidence in court:-

Guard: I was present at the time of the incident judge.

Accused: I didn't see him and it took X amount of time to stop me so he must not have been there

The Guards testimony would be all the proof required.

Ah come on now, that's all very simplistic.
If you were the Guard on the bike :rolleyes: would you not have blown the horn or flashed your headlight when someone pulls acrioss in front of you. After all he could have killed you. I just find hard to believe that the OP never saw him at any stage until he was pulled over. If he has a 10 y/o son it's probably safe to assume he's not a learner or novice driver

Pat Mustard

emeldc wrote: »

Ah come on now, that's all very simplistic.
If you were the Guard on the bike :rolleyes: would you not have blown the horn or flashed your headlight when someone pulls acrioss in front of you. After all he could have killed you. I just find hard to believe that the OP never saw him at any stage until he was pulled over. If he has a 10 y/o son it's probably safe to assume he's not a learner or novice driver

Yes, what you raise is all very plausible argument but it does not get away from the fact that most District Judges tend to give additional weight to the Garda evidence over other evidence, with few exceptions. That's just a fact that is observable in many courtrooms with different District Judges.

Some judges more so and some judges less so but the fact remains.

tayto lover

emeldc wrote: »

Ah come on now, that's all very simplistic.
If you were the Guard on the bike :rolleyes: would you not have blown the horn or flashed your headlight when someone pulls acrioss in front of you. After all he could have killed you. I just find hard to believe that the OP never saw him at any stage until he was pulled over. If he has a 10 y/o son it's probably safe to assume he's not a learner or novice driver

If you rode a motor bike you might think otherwise.
The first thing you think of is your own safety. It also takes awhile to stop, compose yourself, turn your machine and then follow the car.

What would a traffic garda have to gain by making up a story?
There are loads of traffic offences on the roads at any time of the day. Why would he have to make up one?

con___manx1

get a dash cam op. that way if it ever happens again you will have a video to go back and see what happened. also if you are ever in an accident you can prove if it was your fault or not.

GM228

emeldc wrote: »

If he has a 10 y/o son it's probably safe to assume he's not a learner or novice driver

What would being a learner or novice driver do with it and why is it safe to assume? Not everyone learns to drive or gains their licence before they have kids.

There is the arguement of complacency in seasoned drivers to be made.

Riesen_Meal

I was in a very similar situation to this before, I was at a T junction stopped close enough to the four courts one night

I looked to my left, no traffic, looked to the right there was a very slow moving cop car about 500m from where I was, with the amount of speed bumps in the way (about 5) I had plenty of time to carry on which I did, got to the top of the road of where I was and saw the blue light in my rear view, pulled in, the female Garda screeched at me "what the feck were you doing there, you didn't let me out and you clearly saw me?"

"I am doing you under section whatever it was on the road traffic act, 80 quid fine and 2 penalty points" (at the time)

I apologised profusely to her and said that there was plenty of distance and I thought she was deliberately crawling slow looking for someone and I had carried on as she was nowhere near me but she seemed in a foul humour and would not accept it from me so I decided to suck it up and headed home.

I got home a few days and weeks later and said to myself I am not paying that and I'm going to go to court for this as I had genuinely felt hard done by with the situation as it was and I'll take my chances with a conviction and see does the judge see it from my side, I had never been to court for anything in my life before and had a weird curiosity to see what court was like...

Flash forward the morning I was due in court for it I was woken up by a text message, from my Garda friend who I was too embarrassed to say anything to him about it happening "I see your in court this morning" so I rang him and explained that I was embarrassed about telling him..

He said, "don't worry about it, I sit across a desk from the girl that is doing you and she said she was in a bit of a humour that night and she remembered the whole thing and she won't be turning up in court as it's my friend, so go back to bed and pretend it never happened"

Unfortunately, not everyone is as lucky as my situation - but I would try to contact the guard again, apologize profusely, and see if he/she changes his mind about it...

I wouldn't think it happens much anymore after the whole penalty points debacle a few years back...

emeldc

tayto lover wrote: »

If you rode a motor bike you might think otherwise.
The first thing you think of is your own safety. It also takes awhile to stop, compose yourself, turn your machine and then follow the car.

What would a traffic garda have to gain by making up a story?
There are loads of traffic offences on the roads at any time of the day. Why would he have to make up one?

I rode bikes for 20 years. Ironically the last bike I had was a '72 CB500 Four which was used by the Guards (I could probably find a pic if you're into them, It was a minter )
As for making stuff up, who knows, maybe it was a slow day.

GM228 wrote: »

What would being a learner or novice driver do with it and why is it safe to assume? Not everyone learns to drive or gains their licence before they have kids.

Just trying to make the point that the Op is not some snotty nose young lad with no one to care about but himself and hopefully mature enough to take in his surroundings. Or maybe he's just a sh1t driver.
But Garda evidence is just that. Evidence. It's perfectly ok to question it and to pick as many holes as possible in it.

tayto lover

emeldc wrote: »

I rode bikes for 20 years. Ironically the last bike I had was a '72 CB500 Four which was used by the Guards (I could probably find a pic if you're into them, It was a minter )
As for making stuff up, who knows, maybe it was a slow day..

There's no such thing as a slow day on our roads and motorways and even if there was such a thing why would he make up a story against a motorist he never even met before? There's very little logic to your argument.

emeldc

He said, "don't worry about it, I sit across a desk from the girl that is doing you and she said she was in a bit of a humour that night and she remembered the whole thing and she won't be turning up in court as it's my friend, so go back to bed and pretend it never happened"

I rest my case your Honor :D

emeldc

tayto lover wrote: »

There's no such thing as a slow day on our roads and motorways and even if there was such a thing why would he make up a story against a motorist he never even met before? There's very little logic to your argument.

Right, read post #62.

amcalester

Syphonax wrote: »

Sounds like an innocent situation enough he could have left you off. In situations as innocuous as what you're describing it doesnt warrant points, fines, court dates etc rather just a stiff warning.

Have you ever been on a bike when someone pulls out in front of you?

I have, went over the bonnet once and landed on my back, and more recently a large van did the same but I was able to stop a few inches before colliding with the van. It's terrifying, very dangerous and usually only the innocent party is injured.

Just because no one was injured doesn't mean it was innocuous.

tayto lover

emeldc wrote: »

Right, read post #62.

Entirely different case .... unless you think they're all cloned?

emeldc

tayto lover wrote: »

Entirely different case .... unless you think they're all cloned?

FFS, the point is she was in 'bad humour' and did the poster for something he wasn't guilty of. Which bit of that did you not get. Which bit of it is 'entirely different' to the OP's situation.
In general I have a great respect for the Guards, they have a tough number. But I'm not that naive to think they are all holier than thou.

Riesen_Meal

emeldc wrote: »

I rest my case your Honor :D

Possibly the fact I have 3 uncles on the force may have played a part, my surname is a well known Garda and Judge's surname...

tayto lover

emeldc wrote: »

FFS, the point is she was in 'bad humour' and did the poster for something he wasn't guilty of. Which bit of that did you not get. Which bit of it is 'entirely different' to the OP's situation.
In general I have a great respect for the Guards, they have a tough number. But I'm not that naive to think they are all holier than thou.

Good Jaysus. I hope they're not all in bad humour on the same day then or we're all in trouble :pac:
So are you saying that the incident didn't happen at all or the garda just over-reacted?

Pat Mustard

Fieldog wrote: »

Flash forward the morning I was due in court for it I was woken up by a text message, from my Garda friend who I was too embarrassed to say anything to him about it happening "I see your in court this morning" so I rang him and explained that I was embarrassed about telling him..

He said, "don't worry about it, I sit across a desk from the girl that is doing you and she said she was in a bit of a humour that night and she remembered the whole thing and she won't be turning up in court as it's my friend, so go back to bed and pretend it never happened"

I love it!

Bushmanpm

emeldc wrote:

Ah come on now, that's all very simplistic. If you were the Guard on the bike would you not have blown the horn or flashed your headlight when someone pulls acrioss in front of you. After all he could have killed you. I just find hard to believe that the OP never saw him at any stage until he was pulled over. If he has a 10 y/o son it's probably safe to assume he's not a learner or novice driver

As a biker yourself, you know all we can do is flash the headlights, toot the horn, throw a few wanker$ at the driver whilst sometimes being scared sh!tless! Remember, not all bikers are that lucky and end up dead.
Its the guards job and duty to put people straight, whether the driver was oblivious or did it deliberately as "sure, its only a bike, I'm bigger than them so they'll stop if they don't want to get hurt"
I get the impression the OP genuinely didn't see the bike but that's scant comfort for the biker on a morgues slab.

emeldc

tayto lover wrote: »

Good Jaysus. I hope they're not all in bad humour on the same day then or we're all in trouble :pac:
So are you saying that the incident didn't happen at all or the garda just over-reacted?

Over reaction is a possibility or God forbid maybe he was just in one and did him anyway.

tayto lover

emeldc wrote: »

Over reaction is a possibility or God forbid maybe he was just in one and did him anyway.

How did the selection process go I wonder?

emeldc

tayto lover wrote: »

How did the selection process go I wonder?

Probably similar to the process used in selecting the driver in post #62

tayto lover

emeldc wrote: »

Probably similar to the process used in selecting the driver in post #62

Was it the same garda then?

emeldc

tayto lover wrote: »

Was it the same garda then?

Now you're just trolling. Run along.

NinetyTwoTeam

No point in going to court, the judge will always believe the guard over you.

It's possible you didn't see him and are guilty, also possible you aren't guilty but the cop was coming up to the end of the month and hadn't hit his quota.

Innocent until proven guilty isn't a reality when you get to court it's actually the opposite.

tayto lover

emeldc wrote: »

Now you're just trolling. Run along.

Why would I be trolling you?
Relating one story to another totally different occasion doesn't make a lot of sense. It's like saying "i should get off because a garda let off another motorist down the country".

I love Sean nos

micks wrote: »

I may have been able to prove with phone records etc

Don't know how phone records would prove that you weren't holding the phone. A dashcam facing and recording the cabin is the only defence who is adamant that he saw you using a phone when you were not.

Pugzilla

Glad he gave you points, dopey car drivers pulling out in front of motorcycles is one of main causes of biker deaths.

3DataModem

Tell me how wrote: »

No. Definitely not worth going to court.

I suspect that you saw the Passat in the background and subconsciously fixated on that and missed the bike in the foreground.

I was in a taxi with a very careful driver who did exactly this a few weeks ago. Close one.

Kristopherus

Pugzilla wrote: »

Glad he gave you points, dopey car drivers pulling out in front of motorcycles is one of main causes of biker deaths.

I'd say you're the dopey one. Read the OP. The driver was stopped. The dopey cop behind him should have done what any normal person would have done and passed on the inside(LHS). But he was probably on a mission to fill his quota of of prosecutions, as previously mentioned.

Pat Mustard

Pugzilla wrote: »

Glad he gave you points, dopey car drivers pulling out in front of motorcycles is one of main causes of biker deaths.

Mod:

Great legal point. Now please keep it on topic with the legal discussion and don't be upsetting people needlessly.

Pugzilla

I've had car drivers pull out in front of me multiple times.
Only a quick reaction and some luck saved my life.

If you're not a biker, then you'll never understand.

de_Selby

As someone just getting started motorcycling and a regular cyclist I find some people's reactions on this thread terrifying (including the OP).

As many people have pointed out, selective blindness is a real thing. The guard was doing you a favour in stopping you, it wasn't a case of mistaken identity and they weren't manufacturing a story to make some cash and give you penalty points.

I know it's hard to believe, and it can be quite shocking, but please heed the message and be more attentive next time instead of discrediting what the Garda said. I don't mean to be confrontational and I'm not aiming to attack you either, how our mind works is really shocking at times and you need to make a conscious effort to be alert at all times when piloting multi-tonne vehicles.

As an example watch this view and follow the instructions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo

tommyboy26

Kristopherus wrote: »

I'd say you're the dopey one. Read the OP. The driver was stopped. The dopey cop behind him should have done what any normal person would have done and passed on the inside(LHS). But he was probably on a mission to fill his quota of of prosecutions, as previously mentioned.

Did the OP not say the bike was coming toward them and they crossed in front of the bike?

Tbh most people on this thread saying the guard could be lying have probably never been in the guards position or even riden a bike before.

I have been riding bikes for a good few years and I have been in the guards place. We're a car either has not seen me or they have miss judged my speed(going the speed limit sometimes slower) I have lost count the a amount of times this has happened to me.

I have also been lucky enough to have survived the same situation where a car did not see me on a bright yellow bike and I couldn't stop and ended up in the side of the car. I was lucky too walk away from it with just some knee damage that still hurts 10+ years later.

The sad thing about it is most non biker riders just don't notice bikes. They're not looking out for them or have things going on in there mind and are on auto pilot. Until you Have experienced that ass clenching moment when your on a bike and a car nearly hits you, you will never understand.


O.P if I was you I would take from this a lesson that you should watch out for bikers and cyclists and other road users more vigantly cause next time you might not be as lucky.

notharrypotter

Kristopherus wrote: »

I'd say you're the dopey one. Read the OP. The driver was stopped. The dopey cop behind him should have done what any normal person would have done and passed on the inside(LHS). But he was probably on a mission to fill his quota of of prosecutions, as previously mentioned.

Per OP in posthttp://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=103947179&postcount=35 35 the Passat and the Bike were coming against the OP.
They admit seeing the Passat but not the Bike.
The Garda advised the OP that they had crossed in front of them, against the on coming traffic flow.

So by their own admission the Garda is correct.

tayto lover

Kristopherus wrote: »

I'd say you're the dopey one. Read the OP. The driver was stopped. The dopey cop behind him should have done what any normal person would have done and passed on the inside(LHS). But he was probably on a mission to fill his quota of of prosecutions, as previously mentioned.

You need to read it. Dopey is dopey.

hullaballoo

Mod:

I haven't seen any legal discussion in this thread in a while. It will be closed unless there is further legal analysis to be had.

Eire Go Brach

I was once a juror in an assault case. The person assaulted was called and convinced that guy in the docks. Was the guy who done it. I actually believe him. The thing is. No one could prove it was this guy.
What I always remember is the judge summoning it up. She quoted something from 1969 about law abiding good standing citizens. People you society would trust. Being convinced in a line up that that's the person they saw. They thing is. They where wrong. After hearing that. No way could we find him guilty.

My point is atlhough you genuinely think he was not there. You are more then likely wrong. Chalk it up and move on. Get a dash cam to treat yourself for your mistake.

frozenfrozen

Very telling that the op didn't notice they were getting pulled over until the guard pulled up beside them. I can smell an unmarked car coming over the horizon, how little attention do you have to be paying to not notice a following motorbike guard?

Being surprised when you have to roll down the window should be enough to be done for undue care and attention, lol

odyssey06

You should really be able to ask for the Garda motorbike's dash cam footage... a bit ludicrous that in 2017 they are not so equipped.
People make mistakes, at this stage it could be either the OP or the Garda, but I think you'd need more than that to justify your day in court OP.

tayto lover

odyssey06 wrote: »

You should really be able to ask for the Garda motorbike's dash cam footage... a bit ludicrous that in 2017 they are not so equipped.
People make mistakes, at this stage it could be either the OP or the Garda, but I think you'd need more than that to justify your day in court OP.

Dash cams on all vehicles will in time become mandatory I feel.
Insurance companies will demand them and give you a bit off the price like they do with burglar alarms on home insurance.
I think it would be a good idea however they can be hard to maintain and many motorists would make the film disappear if in the wrong.

hullaballoo

360° 3D cameras are your only man.

Anyway, interesting discussion but nothing of any relevance to the law for some time now.

Thread closed.