Graphics Card problem, or so I thought....

jamescd

So one day while I was playing a game, the screen just turned black and went "No Signal". The screen won't turn back on no matter what I press on the mouse or keyboard. I had to shut it down by holding down the Power button to get it working again.

Then it started to get worse and worse, until it keeps happening when I'm just browsing the web. I couldn't even watch a video on Youtube for 5 mins before the screen would go "No Signal".

I open the case, turn the PC on and I notice one of the fans on the GPU is not working. I thought "Aha, there's the culprit right there". I remove the GPU, just use the onboard graphics and voila, it's absolutely perfect. I can browse the web, watch videos for hours with no problems whatsoever.

I tested it multiple times with and without the Graphics Card, and the problem only occured when the Graphics Card was installed. I thought maybe the GPU was overheating because of the broken fan. So I return it to MindFactory in the hopes of it getting replaced.

Today they get back to me saying both fans are working and that it worked under full load for hours without any problems. Say what?? Then why does only one fan work when it's installed on my PC and the screen keeps shutting down??

Could the PSU be unable to handle the load anymore with the Graphics Card on? Or maybe they're just bs'ing me and the GPU is indeed f****d. Anyone got any other ideas? It's an XFX R9 380X and 500W Be Quiet! PSU btw.

Yakult

Sounds like a failing power supply.

Can you try another psu?

Blitz17

That PSU is more than capable of running that card unless it's faulty PSU.

Can you open GPUZ when running off GPU and see what temps are like ? Maybe we can rule out that the card is overheating first of all.

jamescd

Yakult wrote: »

Sounds like a failing power supply.

Can you try another psu?

Blitz17 wrote: »

That PSU is more than capable of running that card unless it's faulty PSU.

Can you open GPUZ when running off GPU and see what temps are like ? Maybe we can rule out that the card is overheating first of all.

I would like to have a go at it with another PSU, but the Graphics Card is still in the hands of MindFactory atm. They tested it only today and they insist both fans are working perfect and that there are no problems with it.

But when I tested it in my PC only a few days ago, only 1 fan was definitely working. I removed it and re-installed it back in the PC multiple times, re-attached the power cables multiple times, but only 1 fan would ever spin. I remember when I first received it more than a year ago, both fans were spinning nicely as soon as I boot up the PC.

So if MindFactory are indeed telling the truth, then why is only 1 fan working when it's installed on my PC? It's most likely the PSU right? Or is there another possible cause for the fan not working?

Grahamer666

I run a GTX 1070 and a lot of the time it's only one fan turning unless it's under load so it's probably your PSU alright.

The_Valeyard

jamescd wrote: »

So one day while I was playing a game, the screen just turned black and went "No Signal". The screen won't turn back on no matter what I press on the mouse or keyboard. I had to shut it down by holding down the Power button to get it working again.

Then it started to get worse and worse, until it keeps happening when I'm just browsing the web. I couldn't even watch a video on Youtube for 5 mins before the screen would go "No Signal".

I open the case, turn the PC on and I notice one of the fans on the GPU is not working. I thought "Aha, there's the culprit right there". I remove the GPU, just use the onboard graphics and voila, it's absolutely perfect. I can browse the web, watch videos for hours with no problems whatsoever.

I tested it multiple times with and without the Graphics Card, and the problem only occured when the Graphics Card was installed. I thought maybe the GPU was overheating because of the broken fan. So I return it to MindFactory in the hopes of it getting replaced.

Today they get back to me saying both fans are working and that it worked under full load for hours without any problems. Say what?? Then why does only one fan work when it's installed on my PC and the screen keeps shutting down??

Could the PSU be unable to handle the load anymore with the Graphics Card on? Or maybe they're just bs'ing me and the GPU is indeed f****d. Anyone got any other ideas? It's an XFX R9 380X and 500W Be Quiet! PSU btw.

You have spare cabling? This happened to me few years. One set of gpu connectors were dead, had to change them.

jamescd

The_Valeyard wrote: »

You have spare cabling? This happened to me few years. One set of gpu connectors were dead, had to change them.

That's a good shout. Since the GPU requires 2x PCI-E power cables, if one of them is indeed dead, then that would explain why 1 fan only ever works even under heavy load correct?

I have a non modular PSU. Can you swap out PCI-E cables on a non modular PSU?

jamescd

I borrowed a low power GPU, one which does not require any PCI-E power cables. Played H1Z1 on the lowest settings with it for a good hour or so and it was faultless. So I think it's pretty much safe to rule out the Processor, Motherboard, RAM, etc..

Since MindFactory are adamant that the 380X I sent them is working perfectly, then it can only be the PCI-E power cables as Valeyard said. Mind you, I'm not gonna rule out the possibility that they could just be messing me about and my 380X is actually not as "Perfect" as they claim.

Because they currently have my card, only way I can determine if it's really the PSU is to stick in a fully working GPU that also requires 2x 6pin or 8pin PCI-E power cables. If I experience the same problems with it on, then it's defo the PSU. Unfortunately I don't have another one, or know of anyone that has one. Anyone know where I can borrow one for a bit just to test it out?

TerrorFirmer

I would say Mindfactory are not messing you about, it's most likely the PSU is not delivering power correctly. You can buy a 2nd hand similarly power hungry card like this from CEX for €35 to test it out. Even comes with a 2 year warranty

With regards borrowing it depends where you are really, I'm sure someone here could lend you a spare card or psu - if you were in Galway for example I have both.

The_Valeyard

jamescd wrote: »

That's a good shout. Since the GPU requires 2x PCI-E power cables, if one of them is indeed dead, then that would explain why 1 fan only ever works even under heavy load correct?

I have a non modular PSU. Can you swap out PCI-E cables on a non modular PSU?

Ive never tried that. So cant answer it.

jamescd

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I would say Mindfactory are not messing you about, it's most likely the PSU is not delivering power correctly. You can buy a 2nd hand similarly power hungry card like this from CEX for €35 to test it out. Even comes with a 2 year warranty

With regards borrowing it depends where you are really, I'm sure someone here could lend you a spare card or psu - if you were in Galway for example I have both.

Yeah would be handy if I could get a hold of a similarly power hungry card that requires 2x 6pin or 8pin power cables so I can see if the same problem occurs.

Thanks for the offer, but unfortunately I'm in Dublin.

Anyway, I've passed on Valeyard's theory onto MindFactory and they've totally misunderstood me. They thought I was talking about one of those Molex to PCI-E power adapters that come in the box with the GPU. They've posted back my R9 380X, along with a new PCI-E adapter

jamescd

Alright, I've received back my R9 380X from Mindfactory. Installed it onto the PC and I played a few games for about 30 mins and got no black screens. However, the 2nd fan is still not spinning. Thought ok, maybe it is the PSU like Valeyard said.

I went round to my mates house, who I gave my old gaming PC to. He doesn't use it for gaming, just as an everyday desktop. It has a 620W Coolermaster PSU and it ran my AMD Radeon HD 4890 for like 5 years until the GPU eventually died. The HD 4890 was also power hungry and required 2x 6pin PCI-E power cables.

Anyway, I installed it onto his PC and fired it up. Guess what? Same problem, 2nd fan won't spin!! I installed H1Z1 on it and played for about 15 minutes. Even when the temp went up to almost 70 degrees, the 2nd fan still wouldn't start up.

So on both my PC and my mates PC, the 2nd fan does not work even when gaming. However, Mindfactory insist that both fans are working perfectly.

Which is more likely, both mine and my mates PSUs are faulty.....or Mindfactory are messing me about? Shoud I order a new PSU off Amazon to test it on a 3rd PSU or what?

scamalert

is there any kind software like nvidia afterburner,since not familiar with AMD cards,but likes of nvidia let you set fans manually to whatever speeds ?

also one way to test for sure learned it by mistake is to plug in power pins but dont put in the card,the fans should boost at full speed upon boot of the system.Since doing that you provide power to gpu but theres no initialized controls thus fans should default to full speed setting.

K.O.Kiki

Radeon Wattman should allow you to control everything.
http://www.amd.com/en-us/innovations/software-technologies/technologies-gaming/radeon-wattman

jamescd

scamalert wrote: »

is there any kind software like nvidia afterburner,since not familiar with AMD cards,but likes of nvidia let you set fans manually to whatever speeds ?

also one way to test for sure learned it by mistake is to plug in power pins but dont put in the card,the fans should boost at full speed upon boot of the system.Since doing that you provide power to gpu but theres no initialized controls thus fans should default to full speed setting.

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Radeon Wattman should allow you to control everything.
http://www.amd.com/en-us/innovations/software-technologies/technologies-gaming/radeon-wattman

Thanks

I tried the Wattman and set it to the max speed of 6,000RPM and still only 1 fan spins. Is the GPU faulty like I thought then?

scamalert

not gpu fault,one fan most likely dead, did you look when booting up for first few seconds do any fans move as gpu gets powered on ?

If no then just return it, not worth taking apart if its under warranty.

jamescd

scamalert wrote: »

not gpu fault,one fan most likely dead, did you look when booting up for first few seconds do any fans move as gpu gets powered on ?

If no then just return it, not worth taking apart if its under warranty.

Yeah as soon as I press the Power button, the fan on the right spins for like a second, stops for 2 seconds or so and then starts up again and continuously spins from that point on.

The fan on the left is completely dead, no movement at all during boot up.

It's under warranty and I contacted XFX first but they told me I need to go through the seller, which is Mindfactory. As I've already mentioned, I already sent it to them. They tested it for 4 hours apparently and found that there are no faults whatsoever. Both fans are working perfectly they said.

scamalert

well if its truly defected and you did test with latest drivers and on different psu's make a video doing bench test or gaming with temps past 60c and fan not working contact manufacturer and request RMA ,send video link to mindfactory as well and explain steps you did and issue persisting.

jamescd

Yeah I installed Crimson ReLive Edition 17.6.2 on both PC's when I tested, which is the latest I think. I only tested on my mate's PC for about 15 minutes and the temp did defo go over 60c. It was hovering around 70c but the 2nd fan still would not start up.

The PSU in my mate's PC is as I said quite old though. Should I try to get a 3rd PSU to test it with first, preferably a newer one?

K.O.Kiki

After Googling, it seems this has happened to people before (1 fan dying).

You can either ghetto-mod it with 2 fans, or get an Arctic Accelero Twin Turbo II for €30 & do the mod yourself.

Or RMA it.

jamescd

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

After Googling, it seems this has happened to people before (1 fan dying).

You can either ghetto-mod it with 2 fans, or get an Arctic Accelero Twin Turbo II for €30 & do the mod yourself.

Or RMA it.

I already RMA'd it with Mindfactory, cost me 40 quid by UPS to ship it to Germany. As I said, they insist that there are no faults with it. Should I spend another 40 quid sending it to Germany again and hope they'll admit that it's faulty this time?

Or am I better off just fixing it myself like you suggested?

jamescd

Ok, so I contacted a guy on adverts who sells PC's and he was kind enough to test out my Graphics Card on one of his PC's.

As you can see, only 1 fan is working throughout. The benchmark actually crashed like 5 minutes after I took that video, presumably due to overheating.

So the Graphics Card was faulty all along. "4 hours of testing" my ass. Mindfactory probably didn't even take it out of the box. I'm f***ing pissed :mad:

K.O.Kiki

jamescd wrote: »

Ok, so I contacted a guy on adverts who sells PC's and he was kind enough to test out my Graphics Card on one of his PC's.

As you can see, only 1 fan is working throughout. The benchmark actually crashed like 5 minutes after I took that video, presumably due to overheating.

So the Graphics Card was faulty all along. "4 hours of testing" my ass. Mindfactory probably didn't even take it out of the box. I'm f***ing pissed :mad:

Can you claim back the money through your small claims court somehow?

jamescd

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Can you claim back the money through your small claims court somehow?

I'm not sure about that, but I've contacted Mindfactory again anyway. It's either they did test it and sent it back to me knowing it was faulty all along, or they didn't even bother to test it at all. I've sent them the video and I'll see what they say this time.

srsly78

Their testing probably didn't put the system under enough load, so it didn't overheat.

game4it70

It was most likely tested on an open test bench too so less chance for it to overheat.

scamalert

srsly78 wrote: »

Their testing probably didn't put the system under enough load, so it didn't overheat.

according to OP they tested it for 4 hours,and yet managed to miss that fan is completely dead.even in enclosed box youd question temps rising fast on card and one fan trying to compensate for all card.more so on open bench if fan isnt moving at all.

srsly78

Well if GPU is not being used at all it would be fine with one fan! Maybe the stress test used was prime95 or similar cpu-only stress test. Completely useless for gpu!

jamescd

scamalert wrote: »

according to OP they tested it for 4 hours,and yet managed to miss that fan is completely dead.even in enclosed box youd question temps rising fast on card and one fan trying to compensate for all card.more so on open bench if fan isnt moving at all.

Yeah this is what they said to me:

Mindfactory wrote:

Hey,

Your card has just arrived and is being tested.

Mindfactory wrote:

Hey,

We have tested your card and could not find any mistakes. Your graphics card ran 4 hours under full load without producing a mistake. Both fans run without problems.

Clearly one fan is dead but they had the cheek to tell me "Both fans run without problems." Then they just shipped it back to me the next day.

Metric Tensor

It's stories like this that made me shy away from mindfactory when I was doing my own build. Amazon have some downsides but I've found their returns service to be unparalleled.

OP. There is an EU wide consumer watchdog. My understanding is that they are a fairly strong operation when they need to be. They are only of use if you have problems with someone in a different EU country so ideal for you. I haven't used them myself but a family member did with an airline who were being thick and a refund arrived VERY quickly after contacting them - this was after many months of brick wall emails and phone calls.

If mindfactory fob you off I'd say it's well worth giving them a go ...

http://www.eccireland.ie

jamescd

Metric Tensor wrote: »

It's stories like this that made me shy away from mindfactory when I was doing my own build. Amazon have some downsides but I've found their returns service to be unparalleled.

OP. There is an EU wide consumer watchdog. My understanding is that they are a fairly strong operation when they need to be. They are only of use if you have problems with someone in a different EU country so ideal for you. I haven't used them myself but a family member did with an airline who were being thick and a refund arrived VERY quickly after contacting them - this was after many months of brick wall emails and phone calls.

If mindfactory fob you off I'd say it's well worth giving them a go ...

http://www.eccireland.ie

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I'm just waiting for Mindfactory's reply, hopefully it doesn't get to that stage.

jamescd

So they just got back to me.......

Mindfactory wrote:

Hi,

after testing your GPU we were not able to detect any fault, never the less if you are still expierencing some problems with the product you can send it back to us. If we find a problem with it we will generate a credit note in your account and with this you can order a new Card. We are very sorry for any inconvienience caused by this.

The key word is "If we find a problem with it". There's no guarantee that they will finally admit that it's faulty after sending it in a 2nd time. They could just as easily insist that there's nothing wrong with it, again.

And it costs 40 quid each time to ship it by UPS, so I'm gonna be down 80 quid regardless. But I guess I have no choice but to send it in either way.

srsly78

Record a video showing only 1 fan spinning. Ask them to refute this, then question their testing process.

Marinjohn45

Had a very similar problem years ago...Got the gpu exchanged still black screen, worked out it was a faulty psu.

jamescd

Marinjohn45 wrote: »

Had a very similar problem years ago...Got the gpu exchanged still black screen, worked out it was a faulty psu.

Yeah but GPU clearly has 1 dead fan. I tested it in 3 different PC's so there's no doubt about it. You can see a video of it in page 2.

Even if it's not the cause of the black screen issue, I don't want to keep using a GPU that has only 1 working fan and keeps overheating. So I want the GPU repaired or replaced.

TerrorFirmer

Write a few simple, straight forward lines in large font outlining the problem - top half in English, bottom half in German (use Google translate) eg "Card faulty - only one fan spinning - overheating - tested in 3 different PC and with different PSU".

Then position it on top on the card in the packaging.

I love Sean nos

jamescd wrote: »

And it costs 40 quid each time to ship it by UPS, so I'm gonna be down 80 quid regardless. But I guess I have no choice but to send it in either way.

If they do take ownership and replace the card, I'd start chasing them for the €40 shipping costs too.

jamescd

srsly78 wrote: »

Record a video showing only 1 fan spinning. Ask them to refute this, then question their testing process.

I already sent them the video that I posted on page 2. Do I need to record another one?

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Write a few simple, straight forward lines in large font outlining the problem - top half in English, bottom half in German (use Google translate) eg "Card faulty - only one fan spinning - overheating - tested in 3 different PC and with different PSU".

Then position it on top on the card in the packaging.

I'll do just that, thanks.

I love Sean nos wrote: »

If they do take ownership and replace the card, I'd start chasing them for the €40 shipping costs too.

I will, thanks.

jamescd

Ok, I've packed it in a box and UPS are coming to collect it within the next hour. I've included a note outlining the problem in big massive letters like TerrorFirmer suggested. It will be delivered tomorrow and fingers crossed they admit it's faulty this time.

jamescd

Result! They've admitted that it is indeed faulty. I don't know if it's the video that did it, or the note in big letters as TerrorFirmer suggested or something else, but at least it's finally resolved. I knew I wasn't going crazy and it was the graphics card all along ha.

They're giving me a credit note for €230 for the card, plus €80 for the shipping costs so €310 altogether I don't know what I should do with it though. I don't see any RX 580, or even Rx 570 on their website. Should I wait until they come back in stock or?


Edit: Thanks everyone for the help!

TerrorFirmer

Probably worth just waiting it out, prices are gone mad at the moment due to the mining craze, and Nvidia prices are also inflated as a result.

You can get a Zotac GTX1060 6GB Mini delivered from MF for about €320 though if you're impatient and that is a big step up from an R9 380.

scamalert

yep mining craze has all the cards out of stock ,likes of amazon has 2-3 weeks on waiting time :cool: but worth picking decent card and use onboard till you get better one.

jamescd

Thanks. Any guesses as to roughly how long until stock/prices are back to normal? If it's gonna be 3 or 4 months or even longer, then I have to get a cheap graphics card to tide me over until then.

If it's only a few weeks or a month, then I'll be alright without one. I'll just have to find something else to keep me entertained in the meantime.