help with no rules house

LegacyUser

hi all quick and to the point.....

i met a girl and moved in a couple years ago,she has 2 kids one now 9 a boy and a girl 13,they just seem to do what they want as in there is no rules in the house,i have rared 2 boys and both are in there 20's so have been there wore the t-shirt bla bla.
we have had so many fights about the behaviour and it is almost at the stage where we are separating,tonight for example her 9 year old didnt come in till half 9 and was sitting eating his dinner at 10 pm after dinner was cooked at 6pm he just kept coming in saying im not hungry but taking what he wants from the fridge/press and will have his dinner later.
i just found this astounding after all the chats/discussions we have had about needing some sort of routine in the house.
So after all was settled her 13 year old just walks threw the front room into the kitchen to do whatever she was doing,im sitting there like wtf this is just not right when do we get that bit of peace knowing that we are not going to be disturbed.
So is this normal i no my lads at those ages would not be aloud to be doing things like this apart from special occasions and the like.
this is not just tonight but all the time over so many things.
im at my lowest point in our relationship.

Dravokivich

The kids need to be treated like kids. They sound more like guests who've overstayed their welcome.

Is this a reaction to you coming into the household, or has their mother tried to impart some routine and can't seem to follow it through with them?

Leroy42

Very tough situation as there really is only going to be one winner (well two!) if a line is drawn.

The main thing to remember is that this is not the children's fault. They are merely acting as they are allowed. So don't hold anything against them. This stems from a lack of a clear policy coming from both yourself and your gf.

You mention that you have had many fights about this, I assume you mean with your gf. One can only summize that even though you have brought this up as an issue your gf does not agree and has decided that her feelings and that of the children are more important than yours.

I think you are allowing your view of what is acceptable, and probably what you did as a parent, to cloud your feelings. Going on what you said, which I accept is just an example, it doesn't seem to onerous. They are not being disrespectful, shouting, breaking things etc. Yes 9.30 is late for a kid but it summer time so the sun is still up and if your gf is happy with where they are then what harm (I agree with you on it being late and wouldn't be what I would want but I wouldn't let it destroy a good relationship either)

You decision therefore is whether this is such an annoyance as to ruin what I assume is an otherwise perfectly fine relationship or if it is something that you can 'endure' for the sake of the relationship.

Lady is a tramp

lost in hope wrote: »

hi all quick and to the point.....

i met a girl and moved in a couple years ago,she has 2 kids one now 9 a boy and a girl 13,they just seem to do what they want as in there is no rules in the house,i have rared 2 boys and both are in there 20's so have been there wore the t-shirt bla bla.
we have had so many fights about the behaviour and it is almost at the stage where we are separating,tonight for example her 9 year old didnt come in till half 9 and was sitting eating his dinner at 10 pm after dinner was cooked at 6pm he just kept coming in saying im not hungry but taking what he wants from the fridge/press and will have his dinner later.
i just found this astounding after all the chats/discussions we have had about needing some sort of routine in the house.
So after all was settled her 13 year old just walks threw the front room into the kitchen to do whatever she was doing,im sitting there like wtf this is just not right when do we get that bit of peace knowing that we are not going to be disturbed.
So is this normal i no my lads at those ages would not be aloud to be doing things like this apart from special occasions and the like.
this is not just tonight but all the time over so many things.
im at my lowest point in our relationship.

I'm really not seeing what's so out of line about the behaviour here, from what you've said.

Eating on their own schedule is kind of just part of growing up and finding your independence, it doesn't sound like he was being disrespectful about it.

And the bit about the teenager having the audacity to walk into the kitchen in her own house. What? I'd understand if you were complaining about her walking in on you and her mum in bed together or something, but what right do you have to expect her to stay out of the kitchen in HER family home? What do you expect her to do, knock before entering? It's her home!

I think you need to learn to respect them and appreciate the fact that they're accepting you into their home and into their lives. I think it would be totally understandable to ask that they not disturb you in the bedroom/bathroom etc, but you can't ask them to avoid shared rooms in the house like the kitchen when you're there!

beechwood55

lost in hope wrote: »

So after all was settled her 13 year old just walks threw the front room into the kitchen to do whatever she was doing,im sitting there like wtf this is just not right when do we get that bit of peace knowing that we are not going to be disturbed.

So a 13 year old child, in her own house, is expected not to come into the kitchen in case you are disturbed?
I think it might be as well if you moved out for a bit. This is not going to end well.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Hardly a no rules house if that's what's going on.

What's the mother's stance? Does she defend the lax attitude towards discipline or is it something she feels should change but doesn't know how to?

freshpopcorn

I'm a bit lost to be honest with what the kids done that was so bad in the examples you gave.

LegacyUser

possibly a bad example as i was venting,sorry but a 13 year old still rambling about playing music doing what she wants at 11.30 pm in my eyes is wrong.

it would not matter what room or what time they will just walk in,they will eat dinner when they want but 9/10 times they fill themselves with rubbish that they dont even eat there dinner.
they back answer,give cheek and basically there is a big fight to get them to do anything and that is with the mother,if shes on the phone for work or if she has friends round they will just interrupt and torment her till she snaps and roars at them

it is very hard to sit and watch/listen to all this

Dravokivich

Get rid of the snacks. Give'em a window to eat their dinner or else they go hungry.

Ask herself if she wants help with the kid's behaviour. They seem to be poking for a response they know will come eventually if they keep at it. It's really unfair on her that they treat her like that.

You don't even have to be involved in adjusting their behaviour, but watch how caught up she's getting with them, and get her out of it to support her.

Also, if her daughters friend's are doing this to her, I'd suggest considering not having them around, or approach their parents on it. A guest should feel welcome, but a host shouldn't be tortured.

freshpopcorn

lost in hope wrote: »

possibly a bad example as i was venting,sorry but a 13 year old still rambling about playing music doing what she wants at 11.30 pm in my eyes is wrong.

it would not matter what room or what time they will just walk in,they will eat dinner when they want but 9/10 times they fill themselves with rubbish that they dont even eat there dinner.

Your lucky you didn't live with most of the teenagers I know now or knew back then. I think you need to take a chill pill regarding when they eat. It shouldn't really effect you. When they use common areas in the house.

Dravokivich

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Your lucky you didn't live with most of the teenagers I know now or knew back then. I think you need to take a chill pill regarding when they eat. It shouldn't really effect you. When they use common areas in the house.

I think you need to read the second half of his post.

Leroy42

Its clear that something is not working. Whether it is done to overreacting or your part, lack of discipline or simply a lack of understanding across the parties is hard to tell from this remove.

The best way to deal with it is, IMO, to sit down together and try to see what is going on. Non judgmental, certainly not aggressive or even assertive, simply listen. They may not be aware they are doing anything. So your annoyance is at the rules rather than them.

Or maybe they are doing it to get attention, or do 'mark their claim' etc. Maybe they have issues with you and your gf which they see acting out as the only way to get some level of control over.

You mentioned that you had fights with your gf over this, what did that achieve? Nothing I bet. Particularly the 13yo, but in ways also the younger one, are looking to be more independent and one of the offshoots of that is taking responsibility and being included.

So talk about it as a family. It might not work the first time, simply walk away and agree to talk at another time. The best solution is for everyone to end up happy. THe kids, your gf, you and for the relationships between all to be better.

Its not about right or wrong, but it does involve all being prepared to listen to the others and respect their viewpoints. Notice I did not say agree. They may well not agree and you need to decide if their actions is malevolence or just kids being kids.

freshpopcorn

Dravokivich wrote: »

I think you need to read the second half of his post.

When I was a teenager or even young I was fairly independent about what I ate and when I ate. It did me no harm. If another man was giving out to me for going into the kitchen I'd have probably have given him lip to. I'd find it very hard to respect the man and relations with my mother probably would have being effected as well.

beauf

Its not about going into the kitchen.

Its about having no routine, in particular at reasonable hours. Maybe people think eating dinner at 10pm and later should be the norm for kids and having no schedule. if they are having dinner at 10 and later they must being going to bed much later than that again. Also they are not having dinner, they are snacking because they didn't eat a dinner a dinner time. Dinner got wasted because they didn't eat it,

All this is minor detail. The crux of the issue is the kids have no routine and no discipline. Which is causing constant conflict. Some people don't want constant arguing in their lives.

newdriverlad

To me the crux of the issue is a man trying to control children that aren't his and the way his approaching things. Things are going to get worse.
You've to learn to live fight your battles especial with your partners children. You can exclude your own children from the kitchen or make them eat dinner when you want. This is up to their mother tough.

Armchair Andy

Id throw my hat at it OP. That or take up a new hobby that takes you away from the house while theyre around. That's assuming the OH is unwilling to do anything to alleviate your concerns.

Dravokivich

freshpopcorn wrote: »

When I was a teenager or even young I was fairly independent about what I ate and when I ate. It did me no harm. If another man was giving out to me for going into the kitchen I'd have probably have given him lip to. I'd find it very hard to respect the man and relations with my mother probably would have being effected as well.

they back answer,give cheek and basically there is a big fight to get them to do anything and that is with the mother,if shes on the phone for work or if she has friends round they will just interrupt and torment her till she snaps and roars at them

They are not disgruntled teens. They are acting like toddlers vying for attention and throwing tantrums that are placated by demands being met.

Whats clear to me is that they are targeting their mother. It has nothing to do with the OP or his presence. He has an expectation and seems to have taken it out on his girlfriend too. He needs to help her. But that doesn't mean he has to take it up with the kids. He needs to find a way to support her in a means that reaffirms the relationship she has with her children. They need to know she is their mother and learn to respect her for it. Right now they don't. And that's nothing to do with him.

freshpopcorn

Dravokivich wrote: »

They are not disgruntled teens. They are acting like toddlers vying for attention and throwing tantrums that are placated by demands being met.

Whats clear to me is that they are targeting their mother. It has nothing to do with the OP or his presence. He has an expectation and seems to have taken it out on his girlfriend too. He needs to help her. But that doesn't mean he has to take it up with the kids. He needs to find a way to support her in a means that reaffirms the relationship she has with her children. They need to know she is their mother and learn to respect her for it. Right now they don't. And that's nothing to do with him.

We're not going to agree on this issue. I think the OP is being way over the top regarding his bossiness regarding when people can eat or enter a room. I think he's be a nightmare to live with and lots of teens/pre teens would have issues with him and they'd probably blame their mother for bringing him into their life.

newdriverlad

Dravokivich wrote: »

They are not disgruntled teens. They are acting like toddlers vying for attention and throwing tantrums that are placated by demands being met.

Whats clear to me is that they are targeting their mother. It has nothing to do with the OP or his presence. He has an expectation and seems to have taken it out on his girlfriend too. He needs to help her. But that doesn't mean he has to take it up with the kids. He needs to find a way to support her in a means that reaffirms the relationship she has with her children. They need to know she is their mother and learn to respect her for it. Right now they don't. And that's nothing to do with him.

He was able to control his own children but he can't control hers. Could you just imagine being made feel unwelcome for walking into the kitchen in your own home at night time. No wondering their fighting back.

Dravokivich

newdriverlad wrote: »

He was able to control his own children but he can't control hers. Could you just imagine being made feel unwelcome for walking into the kitchen in your own home at night time. No wondering their fighting back.

They aren't fighting him. As mentioned in his OP, he finds this odd because he never had to face this issue before. He's wrongly taken it out on his girlfriend. Who has struggled to manage her own issues with them.

Why are you all just caught up on the 13 year old waltzing in and out of the kitchen?

beauf

Well they need to work as a team, mother and OP. If they aren't on the same page it won't work out in the long run.

If kids won't be subject to any rules other than their parents, then how do they manage in clubs, schools, someone else's house and everywhere else where their parents are not around.
We have to co-exist with others.

Also they are having blazing rows with their mother. They don't adhere to her rules either.

newdriverlad

Dravokivich wrote: »

They aren't fighting him. As mentioned in his OP, he finds this odd because he never had to face this issue before. He's wrongly taken it out on his girlfriend. Who has struggled to manage her own issues with them.

Why are you all just caught up on the 13 year old waltzing in and out of the kitchen?

To me it shows me a bit of insight of what kind of person the OP is. I just find it so odd with a grown man having a issue with a teenager entering the kitchen in their own home. You'd swear they were swanning in an jumping into the the middle of the between them.

beauf wrote: »

Well they need to work as a team, mother and OP. If they aren't on the same page it won't work out in the long run.

If kids won't be subject to any rules other than their parents, then how do they manage in clubs, schools, someone else's house and everywhere else where their parents are not around.
We have to co-exist with others.

Also they are having blazing rows with their mother. They don't adhere to her rules either.

He has issues with them entering going into the kitchen. I could never imagine refusing entry to the kitchen/living room to kids/teenagers. That's not a rule. That's a control freak to me.

beauf

newdriverlad wrote: »

...having a issue with a teenager entering the kitchen in their own home..

Tha'ts not the issue. I have no idea why you are focusing on that tiny detail and ignoring the bigger issue.

beauf

I suspect some people most recent experience is not as an adult with kids. But as a teenager at home.

newdriverlad

beauf wrote: »

Tha'ts not the issue. I have no idea why you are focusing on that tiny detail and ignoring the bigger issue.

I agree with you regarding them having to work as a team but I'd have to question the mans exceptions regarding rules. He has issues with them entering the kitchen. I wonder what other rules would he want introduced.

Dravokivich

newdriverlad wrote: »

To me it shows me a bit of insight of what kind of person the OP is. I just find it so odd with a grown man having a issue with a teenager entering the kitchen in their own home. You'd swear they were swanning in an jumping into the the middle of the between them.

He's made a mistake. He is acknowledging how difficult it is for her as a result.

newdriverlad wrote: »

He has issues with them entering going into the kitchen. I could never imagine refusing entry to the kitchen/living room to kids/teenagers. That's not a rule. That's a control freak to me.

He has issues with how they are treating their mother. She can't work at home. She can't have company over. She has to concede to their desires.

But sure... waltzing in and out of a kitchen anytime is a non-issue, so why focus on anything else.

I'd not be too pleased if my son was to treat his mother in such a manner.

freshpopcorn

Dravokivich wrote: »

He's made a mistake. He is acknowledging how difficult it is for her as a result.



He has issues with how they are treating their mother. She can't work at home. She can't have company over. She has to concede to their desires.

But sure... waltzing in and out of a kitchen anytime is a non-issue, so why focus on anything else.

I'd not be too pleased if my son was to treat his mother in such a manner.

That for her to deal with tough really. Some parents allow their children to treat them badly and others don't or have different rules. Did the children always behave like this or is it a new thing since the OP came along.
I know I'm dwelling on the kitchen issue as well but it's not a house that seems to have a nice atmosphere to live in a child. It would really make me question all aspects of life in the house to be honest. I don't mean to argumentative with you.

Dravokivich

freshpopcorn wrote: »

That for her to deal with tough really. Some parents allow their children to treat them badly and others don't or have different rules. Did the children always behave like this or is it a new thing since the OP came along.
I know I'm dwelling on the kitchen issue as well but it's not a house that seems to have a nice atmosphere to live in a child. It would really make me question all aspects of life in the house to be honest.

And she's been unable to, not for a lack of her trying by the OP's comments.

Children running over parents is a learned behaviour. If one concedes, they'll learn who that is and what needs to be done to exploit it.

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I don't mean to argumentative with you.

The OP came here for perspective. I wouldn't see the value in any myself if there wasn't some form of counter point to any elements brought up by others.

freshpopcorn

Dravokivich wrote: »

And she's been unable to, not for a lack of her trying by the OP's comments.

Children running over parents is a learned behaviour. If one concedes, they'll learn who that is and what needs to be done to exploit it.

To deal with the situation. You'd have know how were the kids before hand and how are they at a school. How do they behave with their father or is he around?
The teenager might be harder to deal with due to her age/etc.
It might even help the OP to ask his own children how they found his parenting style.

beauf

newdriverlad wrote: »

..He has issues with them entering the kitchen. I wonder what other rules would he want introduced.

No. They go into the kitchen at 5pm no problem.

You've complete missed the context of time of that example, and how that fits into the pattern of behavior.

Also the concept of child/teenage free time. Even if that is just reading a book without interruptions. That lack of any regular schedule makes that impossible.

TBH I doubt anyone who has no experience of kids/teenager will have an appreciation of the issues here.

beauf

freshpopcorn wrote: »

To deal with the situation. You'd have know how were the kids before hand and how are they at a school. How do they behave with their father or is he around?
The teenager might be harder to deal with due to her age/etc.
It might even help the OP to ask his own children how they found his parenting style.

Its the mothers parenting style under discussion not the OP.

lost in hope wrote: »

... they will just interrupt and torment her till she snaps and roars at them - it is very hard to sit and watch/listen to all this

newdriverlad

beauf wrote: »

No. They go into the kitchen at 5pm no problem.

You've complete missed the context of time of that example, and how that fits into the pattern of behavior.

Also the concept of child/teenage free time. Even if that is just reading a book without interruptions. That lack of any regular schedule makes that impossible.

TBH I doubt anyone who has no experience of kids/teenager will have an appreciation of the issues here.

I grew up with fairly relaxed parents they was no big deal about routines with either myself or my siblings. We never had an behavior issues in school or at home. The most trouble any of us got into at school was when I left my maths book and copies at home in secondary school one day. I'm with my partner now for a few year and we have a son. She grew up in a house similar to mine.
We using our parents style of parenting with our son and we feel it works. We also knew kids similar to the OP described and they were always in trouble and bother. We found it was because it they had over bearing parents with loads of rules and regulations. The kitchen issue is just so strange to me. It's a shared room in the house in my opinion. We've totally different beliefs in life and we're never going to agree.

Lady is a tramp

Dravokivich wrote: »

But sure... waltzing in and out of a kitchen anytime is a non-issue, so why focus on anything else.

I'd not be too pleased if my son was to treat his mother in such a manner.

I can tell you for an absolute undisputable fact that your son's mother has no issue with him ever waltzing in and out of the kitchen or any other room in the house. At any time of the day.

How is that treating his mother in any "manner"? A child's home is his home, just as much as it is his parent's. If there's ever anywhere you should feel safe and secure and welcome, it's in your own home.

beauf

newdriverlad wrote: »

... We also knew kids similar to the OP described and they were always in trouble and bother. We found it was because it they had over bearing parents with loads of rules and regulations....

The OP situation is blazing rows at home where they have NO rules.

Just because it worked for you, doesn't mean it works for someone else. Here you have an example where it doesn't work.

Dravokivich

Lady is a tramp wrote: »

I can tell you for an absolute undisputable fact that your son's mother has no issue with him ever waltzing in and out of the kitchen or any other room in the house. At any time of the day.

How is that treating his mother in any "manner"? A child's home is his home, just as much as it is his parent's. If there's ever anywhere you should feel safe and secure and welcome, it's in your own home.

I'd be unhappy with him if he was to do the following with you.

Dravokivich wrote: »

He has issues with how they are treating their mother. She can't work at home. She can't have company over. She has to concede to their desires.

This is exactly what the kids referenced by the OP are doing to their mother.

Lady is a tramp

Lady is a tramp wrote: »

I can tell you for an absolute undisputable fact that your son's mother has no issue with him ever waltzing in and out of the kitchen or any other room in the house. At any time of the day.

How is that treating his mother in any "manner"? A child's home is his home, just as much as it is his parent's. If there's ever anywhere you should feel safe and secure and welcome, it's in your own home.

Of all posts ever for someone called "freshpopcorn" to thank. Had to laugh at that.

newdriverlad

beauf wrote: »

The OP situation is blazing rows at home where they have NO rules.

Just because it worked for you, doesn't mean it works for someone else. Here you have an example where it doesn't work.

Ya and I think the OP might be at fault for his need to have lots of rules in place. I'd feel sorry for the children not being able to entering common areas of the house. It just seem way over the top and controlling to me.
I'd be interested in known how were things before he came on the scene.

This is my experience we're never going to agree on the matter. So, their is no point of fighting over it.

beauf

Its like trying to discuss a movie with someone who hasn't seen it.

njs030

I'm a parent of a teenager and I find it utterly bizarre that it's suggested common areas in the house should be restricted.

Op it's their home that you've joined so I suggest first you ask the mother does she want help and then support her in slowly changing her attitude and what she accepts from them without you overstepping boundaries with them.

Secondly if you want privacy go to your bedroom, they are teenagers on school holidays and will be up late and are always hungry!

beauf

lost in hope wrote: »

hi...moved in a couple years ago,,,.

I think OP you have to accept that no one is reading your posts properly.

njs030

beauf wrote: »

I think OP you have to accept that no one is reading your posts properly.

While you have an opinion it's acceptable for others to have a different one isn't it? I don't think you should be shooting them all down by saying no one else had teenagers or when they did accusing them of not reading the op.

He joined their household. It's irrelevant if he did that 2/3/7 years ago, they are a family unit and he joined them and as such he needs to be aware of this and think beyond "his" needs.

beauf

It would make no sense for me to disagree with the idea the rules are too strict in a house that has no rules. So I haven't.
I'm just pointing out, that people are not reading the OP posts properly and/or taking them entirely out of context.

For example the thread title is....

"help with with no rules house"

People are complaining about the rules being too strict in a house that doesn't have any.
That the rules have caused problems with the kids and the OP.
When there aren't any rules and the problem is between the mother and the kids not the OP.

The OP is being blamed for a situation, he did not create or is part of. He is an unwilling observer.

lost in hope wrote: »

...it is very hard to sit and watch/listen to all this

Basically any advice he gives is ignored...

lost in hope wrote: »

...
i just found this astounding after all the chats/discussions we have had about needing some sort of routine in the house....

So basically you all giving out about rules and the OP causing problem. When he didn't set any.

freshpopcorn

beauf wrote: »

I think OP you have to accept that no one is reading your posts properly.

In his first post he says,

her 13 year old just walks threw the front room into the kitchen to do whatever she was doing,im sitting there like wtf this is just not right when do we get that bit of peace knowing that we are not going to be disturbed.

I never heard of somebody having an issue with a 13 year walking into a kitchen in their own house. I just find his attitude strange. Nobody disagrees that their are behavior issues in the house but the OP's attitude is strange.

beauf

You've entirely missed the context of that comment. You keep doing it. So I assume you are oblivious to it.

freshpopcorn

beauf wrote: »

You've entirely missed the context of that comment. You keep doing it. So I assume you are oblivious to it.

Explain it to me?
I'm not the only person on here who has an issue with his attitude to her children using common areas in the house.

Big Bag of Chips

It's the end of June. Our house is definitely not a "no rules" house, but June becomes a very haphazard time here. Children, younger than the teenager could easily be up until close to 11, after it some nights. It's still bright many evenings up until half 10. A child coming in at 9/9:30 wouldn't be that unusual. A 13 year old still up at 11:30 mightn't be ideal, but isn't necessarily a discipline issue either.

With children of that age I think privacy and your own time in the main living room isn't something that you should expect as a given! Especially during the summer months.

But I think this is more than just what time they come in and go to bed.

The only thing you can do is speak to their mother and ask her what she'd like to do. Would she like help. You can't force your ideals on her, and you shouldn't make her feel bad for parenting choices. But if she does need help, and does want your help then you can be a support to her. As her partner you should support her in her parenting. But you don't get to dictate to her on what she should be doing, according to you!

beauf

So the advice here is the OP to retreat to his bedroom, turn on the TV and put wireless earphones on.

Unlock the front door and let them fight it out, and eat junk instead of dinner and scream at each other. Let them come and go at any hour they please.

Basically the kids control the adults.

Armchair Andy

That or GTFO. True tester of a relationship this one.

beauf

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Explain it to me?
I'm not the only person on here who has an issue with his attitude to her children using common areas in the house.

Maybe you could quote where he said he had a problem with kids using kitchen at all times, ditto the garden, bathroom, hallways etc.

mikeybrennan

only read the OP but sounds like you just want the mom and not the kids

Dial Hard

freshpopcorn wrote:

Explain it to me? I'm not the only person on here who has an issue with his attitude to her children using common areas in the house.

Was it not the time of night rather than the room itself that was the problem though?

I think a lot of the OP's issues are being lost as a result of his posting style (sorry OP).