Artic + BE

kilianmanning

Hi guys.
Has anybody done the artic test recently?
Just wondering if you pass the artic test does it automatically give you BE category ( Car & trailer).
Was talking to a driving instructor & he reckons it doesn't.
Thanks

Silvera

You may get a new instructor, he obviously doesnt know his stuff.

I passed my CE in 2014 ..and BE comes automatically.

donkey balls

I have my artic license the best part of 20 years and when you past the test the trailer part of the license carried over to car/bus ridged etc, Don't see why it would have changed over the years.

kilianmanning

Silvera wrote: »

You may get a new instructor, he obviously doesnt know his stuff.

I passed my CE in 2014 ..and BE comes automatically.

Maybe just greedy.. Told him I was going the artic route but might do the car & trailer in the meantime. I only have learner for the rigid at the moment so it'll be a while before I do the artic.

Silvera

I was in a similar situation up to 2014, in that I had my rigid licence sorted since 2001 and now wanted to have (at the very least) a BE licence too.

I weighted up the options and, in the end, I went for CE lessons and test ...which now allows me to tow all sizes of trailers (i.e. I'm not restricted to a jeep and trailer only). It is obviously more costly to go down the artic route (my two truck licences cost me c.€3000 in total, when you include lessons, application fees, licences, etc etc).

I reckon between lessons, licences etc, the BE route would have cost me c.€300-500.

kilianmanning

Silvera wrote: »

I was in a similar situation up to 2014, in that I had my rigid licence sorted since 2001 and now wanted to have (at the very least) a BE licence too.

I weighted up the options and, in the end, I went for CE lessons and test ...which now allows me to tow all sizes of trailers (i.e. I'm not restricted to a jeep and trailer only). It is obviously more costly to go down the artic route (my two truck licences cost me c.€3000 in total, when you include lessons, application fees, licences, etc etc).

I reckon between lessons, licences etc, the BE route would have cost me c.€300-500.

Yes. It is an expensive licence to do if you aren't going to be using it, but I want to do it anyway.
Does artic cover you to tow a trailer more than 3500kg with a category B vehicle?

Silvera

Again, I was/am in a similar position, I didnt need the licences for work but - like you - I wanted to do it anyway.

I believe all BE licences issued since 2013 are restricted to 3500kg - when towing with a B vehicle.

Which doesnt make sense really as, if you have a CE licence, you should be allowed to exceed the 3500kg limit - once its within the vehicle's legal towing capacity ofcourse (e.g. I believe some Range Rovers have a 4000kg legal towing capacity... likewise LWB Defenders)

TallGlass

Not related to the main question but similar line of thought.

Is there a reason that we cannot be shown how to drive a CE from the get go? Why do I need a C full first? From my reading they are different vehicles. CE is a tractor/trailer unit while C is a rigid of different sizes. Surely if you pass and trained in a CE vechile a C wouldn't be a problem same as if we with a CE wanted to drive a BE?

Just to add. I am guessing it's something to do with the weight of vehicle, that you need a C full legally to drive on a LP CE ? It's just as someone mentioned quite expensive to do both and takes sometime. When I would be confident myself driving a CE that I could drive a C. Although, driving a C I would need lessons in the CE.

neris

To do with weight, length overall size.

Silvera

TallGlass wrote: »

Not related to the main question but similar line of thought.

Is there a reason that we cannot be shown how to drive a CE from the get go? Why do I need a C full first? From my reading they are different vehicles. CE is a tractor/trailer unit while C is a rigid of different sizes. Surely if you pass and trained in a CE vechile a C wouldn't be a problem same as if we with a CE wanted to drive a BE?

Just to add. I am guessing it's something to do with the weight of vehicle, that you need a C full legally to drive on a LP CE ? It's just as someone mentioned quite expensive to do both and takes sometime. When I would be confident myself driving a CE that I could drive a C. Although, driving a C I would need lessons in the CE.

While it would be nice to be able to go straight for CE lessons and test, it is logical for a driver to prove they are confident/capable of driving the 'towing vehicle' before being allowed to drive the 'towing vehicle + trailer'.

In my case I took my lessons and test in a rigid+trailer (as opposed to the traditional 'artic' set up). It was actually a little longer than a traditional artic but I preferred driving and learning in this set up.

The school I used and the actual rigid+trailer I drove....

CiniO

Here's the list of each category which gives extra entitlements to more categories.


A - A, A1, A2 and AM

A1 - A1 and AM

A2 - A1, A2 and AM

AM - AM

B - B and W

BE - B, BE and W

C - B, C, C1 and W

CE - B, C, C1, BE, CE, C1E and W (and where the applicant already has, at the time of the application, an entitlement to a category D licence, the applicant shall also have entitlement to a category DE licence)

C1 - B, C1 and W

C1E - B, C1, BE, C1E and W

D - B, D, D1 and W

DE - B, D, D1, BE, DE, D1E and W

D1 - B, D1 and W

D1E - B, D1 and WB, D1, BE, D1E and W

W - W


Source: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2011/si/483/made/en/print?q=road+traffic+licensing

mb30

Your "instructor" isn't very knowledgeable eh? of course you automatically gain a B+E (car and trailer) category if you can safely drive an articulated tractor unit with 45ft trailer attached you can obviously tow a little car and trailer legally, when you pass the artic test you can drive in all HGV categories under C+E.

brian7cwl

TallGlass wrote: »

Not related to the main question but similar line of thought.

Is there a reason that we cannot be shown how to drive a CE from the get go? Why do I need a C full first? From my reading they are different vehicles. CE is a tractor/trailer unit while C is a rigid of different sizes. Surely if you pass and trained in a CE vechile a C wouldn't be a problem same as if we with a CE wanted to drive a BE?

Just to add. I am guessing it's something to do with the weight of vehicle, that you need a C full legally to drive on a LP CE ? It's just as someone mentioned quite expensive to do both and takes sometime. When I would be confident myself driving a CE that I could drive a C. Although, driving a C I would need lessons in the CE.

The main reason you have to do both C and CE is because both vehicles are completely different to drive

An artic can bend around things a rigid can't

neris

an artics also alot heavier, alot longer, more difficult to reverse and they can be alot more powerful then a rigid

brian7cwl

neris wrote: »

an artics also alot heavier, alot longer, more difficult to reverse and they can be alot more powerful then a rigid

I agree with you they is a very good reason you need to do both tests

CiniO

neris wrote: »

an artics also alot heavier, alot longer, more difficult to reverse and they can be alot more powerful then a rigid

brian7cwl wrote: »

I agree with you they is a very good reason you need to do both tests

However worth noting, that you can do CE test in rigid truck with a trailer.
There's no need to show up on test with an artic.

brian7cwl

CiniO wrote: »

However worth noting, that you can do CE test in rigid truck with a trailer.
There's no need to show up on test with an artic.

If you can drive a rigid with a trailer (Drag) you should be well fit to drive any artic you get into

Gerrup Outta Dat!

kilianmanning wrote: »

Hi guys.
Has anybody done the artic test recently?
Just wondering if you pass the artic test does it automatically give you BE category ( Car & trailer).
Was talking to a driving instructor & he reckons it doesn't.
Thanks

Yes. Can I ask something too on the same thread?

ISM have started to offer C1 and C1E lessons. If I got C1E, would that give me BE?

If I did D1 would I get D1E if I passed C1E?

CiniO

Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote: »

Yes. Can I ask something too on the same thread?

ISM have started to offer C1 and C1E lessons. If I got C1E, would that give me BE?

If I did D1 would I get D1E if I passed C1E?

Yes, C1E would give you entitlements to BE.
But it wouldn't give you entitlements to D1E, even if you had D1 at the time of passing C1E.
Even CE wouldn't give you entitlement to D1E if you only had D1. If you had D though, you would get DE and D1E after passing CE.

Bit complicated, but that's what it is.

Here's a link to list of categories you are entitled to based on other category and link to source.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=103979695&postcount=11

brian7cwl

Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote: »

Yes. Can I ask something too on the same thread?

ISM have started to offer C1 and C1E lessons. If I got C1E, would that give me BE?

If I did D1 would I get D1E if I passed C1E?

Yes if you got a C1E you will get a BE

I am not sure if you will get the D1 E if you pass the C1 E if you contact NDLS they might tell you your entitlements

Gerrup Outta Dat!

CiniO wrote: »

Yes, C1E would give you entitlements to BE.
But it wouldn't give you entitlements to D1E, even if you had D1 at the time of passing C1E.
Even CE wouldn't give you entitlement to D1E if you only had D1. If you had D though, you would get DE and D1E after passing CE.

That's ridiculous

Del2005

TallGlass wrote: »

Not related to the main question but similar line of thought.

Is there a reason that we cannot be shown how to drive a CE from the get go? Why do I need a C full first? From my reading they are different vehicles. CE is a tractor/trailer unit while C is a rigid of different sizes. Surely if you pass and trained in a CE vechile a C wouldn't be a problem same as if we with a CE wanted to drive a BE?

Just to add. I am guessing it's something to do with the weight of vehicle, that you need a C full legally to drive on a LP CE ? It's just as someone mentioned quite expensive to do both and takes sometime. When I would be confident myself driving a CE that I could drive a C. Although, driving a C I would need lessons in the CE.

For the same reason you can't just go BE instead of B. You need to prove your capable of controlling the smaller vehicle first.

brian7cwl

Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote: »

That's ridiculous

The driving school I was with had a mini bus converted into a C1 vehicle

So doing the D1 and C1 you were basically doing in the same vehicle and if you wanted trailer in both it was the same again

Personally I believe if you have a D1 you should get a C1 and if you have a trailer in either C1 or D1 you should get it in the other

CiniO

brian7cwl wrote: »

The driving school I was with had a mini bus converted into a C1 vehicle

So doing the D1 and C1 you were basically doing in the same vehicle and if you wanted trailer in both it was the same again

Personally I believe if you have a D1 you should get a C1 and if you have a trailer in either C1 or D1 you should get it in the other

It would make perfect sense to get D1E after passing C1E. I don't think opposite would be good idea, as most people pass D1 and D1E in regular transit size minibus, so it's completely different driving that with trailer, to driving 7.5 tonne truck with trailer.

But anyway - law is as it is. and C1E and D1E are not connected whatsoever.

Gerrup Outta Dat!

I often see farmers driving tractors with huge trailers several metres long with stacks of hay etc.. Surely that’d require a CE license.

Davy

Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote: »

I often see farmers driving tractors with huge trailers several metres long with stacks of hay etc.. Surely that’d require a CE license.

Counts as a W, largest mobile cranes that are the size of 2 artic trucks are the same.

Gerrup Outta Dat!

Davy wrote: »

Counts as a W, largest mobile cranes that are the size of 2 artic trucks are the same.

So a 16 y/o could drive a huge tractor with a 5 metre trailer with a 10 tonne load?

Del2005

Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote: »

So a 16 y/o could drive a huge tractor with a 5 metre trailer with a 10 tonne load?

10 tonnes is nothing to a modern agricultural tractor, they could be hauling way more and only on a permit!

Gerrup Outta Dat!

Del2005 wrote: »

10 tonnes is nothing to a modern agricultural tractor, they could be hauling way more and only on a permit!

You can’t haul a trailer on a permit though, can you?

brian7cwl

Your right a car licence allows you to drive s tractor with a trailer that is equivalent to an artic, it is very wrong but farmers do get everything in this country. Even when transport in live stick they are CPC exempt

neris

farmers also dont need a tacho for pulling loads

Gerrup Outta Dat!

brian7cwl wrote: »

Your right a car licence allows you to drive s tractor with a trailer that is equivalent to an artic, it is very wrong but farmers do get everything in this country. Even when transport in live stick they are CPC exempt

neris wrote: »

farmers also dont need a tacho for pulling loads

So what if an overtired farmer decimates a young family in a car?

brian7cwl

Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote: »

So what if an overtired farmer decimates a young family in a car?

Then our government will do everything in their power to cover it up and keep it quiet

Because the farmers vote is more important than the lives of one family

boardsuser1

Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote: »

So what if an overtired farmer decimates a young family in a car?

Farmers have far more clout than some people would ever believe.

Politicians dare not 'upset them'

neris

brian7cwl wrote: »

Your right a car licence allows you to drive s tractor with a trailer that is equivalent to an artic, it is very wrong but farmers do get everything in this country. Even when transport in live stick they are CPC exempt

theres talk now of the lads who do milk tanker work having to become tacho compliant. think the rsa have coped on that theres a bit of piss taking going on in that sector

Wishbone Ash

brian7cwl wrote: »

If you can drive a rigid with a trailer (Drag) you should be well fit to drive any artic you get into

...or a drag unit with axles at both ends of the trailer (as opposed to a twin center axle) - a bitch to reverse as there's a double pivot.

brian7cwl

neris I didn't know the milkers didn't need techo when driving that is very wrong is there many industries that don't need techo in ?

boardsuser1

brian7cwl wrote: »

neris I didn't know the milkers didn't need techo when driving that is very wrong is there many industries that don't need techo in ?

http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Professional-Drivers/Tachograph-cards/Exemptions/

parishsavings

neris wrote: »

theres talk now of the lads who do milk tanker work having to become tacho compliant. think the rsa have coped on that theres a bit of piss taking going on in that sector

More examples of farmers getting away with stuff, milk tankers and cattle lorries exempt!

Vehicles used for the carriage of live animals from farms to local markets and vice versa
or from local markets to local slaughter houses within a radius of up to 100km.

Gerrup Outta Dat!

Do travellers have an exemption of BE when towing caravans? I can't imagine every traveller having BE license.

parishsavings

Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote: »

Do travellers have an exemption of BE when towing caravans? I can't imagine every traveller having BE license.

Some caravans are quite light so might fall under B licence as being within combined weight

brian7cwl

parishsavings wrote: »

More examples of farmers getting away with stuff, milk tankers and cattle lorries exempt!

Vehicles used for the carriage of live animals from farms to local markets and vice versa
or from local markets to local slaughter houses within a radius of up to 100km.

I know these are cpc exempt but are you sure they are techo exempt ? I though every truck needs techo

boardsuser1

brian7cwl wrote: »

I know these are cpc exempt but are you sure they are techo exempt ? I though every truck needs techo

Milk trucks are tachograph exempt.

They all have the tachograph ‘VU’ fitted but the truck will still operate as normal despite no driver card being inserted.

Wishbone Ash

parishsavings wrote: »

More examples of farmers getting away with stuff, milk tankers and cattle lorries exempt!.....

I don't know any farmer who has a milk tanker - most I'd imagine are owned by contractors or Co-ops.

Again, most livestock trucks are owned by haulage contractors as it wouldn't be feasible for the average farmer to operate one.

Most of the tacho exemptions are for haulage where there is no direct competition which might otherwise tempt a driver to overload/speed to get more work done and undercut his competitor.

kilianmanning

Did the rigid & artic test in the finish, got my be licence aswell!

Tigerpants

kilianmanning wrote: »

Did the rigid & artic test in the finish, got my be licence aswell!

Congratulations, well done.
On the BE part of the licence is there any code to let you know that the BE weight is unrestricted or is it blank i.e. restricted to 3500kg?

kilianmanning

Tigerpants wrote: »

Congratulations, well done.
On the BE part of the licence is there any code to let you know that the BE weight is unrestricted or is it blank i.e. restricted to 3500kg?

Restricted to 3500kg, no code, but I have seen others fellas licence with the code, do you know why I didn't get it?

Tigerpants

kilianmanning wrote: »

Restricted to 3500kg, no code, but I have seen others fellas licence with the code, do you know why I didn't get it?

I'm not 100% sure, perhaps some others on here might be able to shed some light