Email from lecturer/college regarding results

siobhan08

Hi,

So a family member of mine is currently at college and recently received their results. However, they have failed a module and must repeat the module as it was practical.

Shortly after receiving their result, they received an email from the college regarding the module repeat.

This email was a group email and listed all the other students who are required to repeat as well as them.

They were very unhappy with how this email informed other students that they were required to repeat without their knowledge/permission. Surely the only people who know a student has to repeat should be the college administrators and whoever the student chooses to tell.

They asked my advice.

I would be of the opinion that this was very unprofessional and could possible breach data protection/ student privacy. I would believe that this type of information should have been sent individually to the affected students and not to a group as it’s nobody business who else has to repeat a module.

I would be grateful if others would be willing to share their opinion. As I wouldn't like to give bad advice if this would be normal practice.

august12

Yes, you are correct, the other email addresses should not be visible. This is an error on the part of the college in my opinion. It is possible to send a group email without displaying the other recipients which is what should have happened here.

freshpopcorn

I've seen college's do this in past.
The attitude I took to it was if you were going to do the repeat. Everybody would know because you would be seen doing the repeat at the exam or if the offered revision classes before it.

siobhan08

august12 wrote: »

Yes, you are correct, the other email addresses should not be visible. This is an error on the part of the college in my opinion. It is possible to send a group email without displaying the other recipients which is what should have happened here.

Yes I was under the impression that could be done as well but I not too sure how it is actually done. It is definitely not an appropriate method to communicate such information in my opinion

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I've seen college's do this in past.
The attitude I took to it was if you were going to do the repeat. Everybody would know because you would be seen doing the repeat at the exam or if the offered revision classes before it.

Can see that point of view but surely who is repeating shouldn't be broadcast to other students within days of the results bring released. Not very professional in my opinion

jimmycrackcorm

siobhan08 wrote:

They were very unhappy with how this email informed other students that they were required to repeat without their knowledge/permission. Surely the only people who know a student has to repeat should be the college administrators and whoever the student chooses to tell.

Will they be repeating in secret in spaced out times so that no one has to sit with anyone during the exam?

Tom Dunne

Absolutely and utterly unprofessional at best, a breach of Data Protection laws at worst.

I'd write a letter to the Registrar outlining your concerns.

freshpopcorn

siobhan08 wrote: »

Can see that point of view but surely who is repeated shouldn't be broadcast to other students within days of the results bring results. Not very professional in my opinion

I totally agree with you. I think people decided the people who sent the email would be grading their repeat and complaining about the issue might do the no favors.

siobhan08

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Will they be repeating in secret in spaced out times so that no one has to sit with anyone during the exam?

That's not the point. The point is a college should not share information regarding a student's results with other students without the students' permission/knowledge

siobhan08

siobhan08 wrote: »

That's not the point. The point is a college should not share information regarding a student's results with other students without the students' permission/knowledge

People have got awfully precious. When I was at college the results were pinned up on a public notice board.
Anyway if students have even a modicum of normal communication between themselves they will all know who passed and who's repeating.

dudara

That was a guffaw on the part of the college. It was probably done in error, but still doesn't excuse it.

Obviously, all the students will realize when they have to resit but they shouldn't know before then. As Tom Dunne said, a letter to the Registrar will highlight this.

Mattie500

For years college results were posted in the notice boards along the corridors. I remember it well, are results now kept secret?

siobhan08

Deleted User wrote: »

People have got awfully precious. When I was at college the results were pinned up on a public notice board.

Yes that was done when I was at college. It was done by student number so you had to know people's student number to know their results.

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyway if students have even a modicum of normal communication between themselves they will all know who passed and who's repeating.

Yes but the student has the option to tell people if they wish. The college should not go sending this information out to oter students

Mattie500 wrote: »

For years college results were posted in the notice boards along the corridors. I remember it well, are results now kept secret?

Yes students now must log in online to view their own result which are linked to their student number. Nobody else can see them unless the student shows others

siobhan08

siobhan08 wrote: »

Yes students now must log in online to view their own result which are linked to their student number. Nobody else can see them unless the student shows others

So, is there an unwritten rule among students now not to speak about results, or what they did in the summer (in case somebody is forced to admit that they were repeating)?

a 'Don't ask and don't tell' policy?

freshpopcorn

When I was in college this practice was done. My theory on them doing it was they know not everybody would check their emails and they knew they'd be a good chance their friends would remind them if they were also included in the email.

evolving_doors

Deleted User wrote: »

So, is there an unwritten rule among students now not to speak about results, or what they did in the summer (in case somebody is forced to admit that they were repeating)?

a 'Don't ask and don't tell' policy?

They can speak about their results if they want to... that's called having a choice and control over your own personal stuff.

Publishing personal data just isn't allowed anymore.

siobhan08

Deleted User wrote: »

So, is there an unwritten rule among students now not to speak about results, or what they did in the summer (in case somebody is forced to admit that they were repeating)?

a 'Don't ask and don't tell' policy?

You are clearly missing the point. Who knows a student is repeating is up to who the student wants to tell they have to repeat. If a student wants their peers to know if they are repeating they will do so of their own accord. The college has no place in sharing information regarding a student results with other students.

happywithlife

Two things I see wrong here. First is the results issue and precious (someone else's phrase) as it might sound you are entitled to privacy. It personally wouldn't bother me if those repeating were all going to be in the same room anyway but I still understand one being upset at others knowing.
Second issue is the sharing of other people's email- just not on in today's world. Someone used CC inside of BC obviously and I would expect anyone working in college Admin to know how to send a blind group email.
Personally I'd wait till I had the results of my repeat (in case I feared repercussions at grading) then raise with Admin- a memo should go out to Admin staff and that should be the end of it

racersedge

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So, is there an unwritten rule among students now not to speak about results, or what they did in the summer (in case somebody is forced to admit that they were repeating)?

a 'Don't ask and don't tell' policy?

I can attest to that theory. Currently doing a part-time degree course and nobody on it discusses the actual results. They talk vaguely about doing well or ther unhappiness with the results but never anything concrete. Quite different to my first trip to college. I'm guessing the mentality at the moment for some is that they don't want to judges by their grade?

PhoenixParker

Are college results really considered private data?

As others have noted, historically they never have been as results were posted publically. Presence at tutorials and repeat exams makes it clear who is repeating, top grades are announced in public fora with prizes. Degree awards are publicly announced. Colleges regularly talk about the results of past pupils, for instance if someone famous publicly claims a degree from college X, college X will correct the record if they don't in fact have that degree. The HSE and other bodies who deal with data that is actually private have none of those freedoms.

The pursuit of a degree is participation in an academic competition, and like other competitions the results can be published. While it sucks to have your name published with a Did Not Finish next to it, that's a risk and price of participation.

As for the issue of email address visibility, that's really a non-issue in a college setting. You're all effectively a small team of work colleagues so a bcc is unnecessary unless something truly private to each individual is being sent.

Lady is a tramp

Mattie500 wrote: »

For years college results were posted in the notice boards along the corridors. I remember it well, are results now kept secret?

That was the way back in my day. (Not all that long ago.) They were done by student number, but in alphabetical order, and there were only around 25 in my class by the end of final year ... roll call was taken every day, so we knew the order we were all in alphabetically and therefore we'd know looking at the results who got what, even though we didn't actually know each others student numbers off by heart. Sure I remember when the final degree results came out, I was one of the few students who actually lived in the same town where the college was, so I'd everyone messaging me to send them on their grades.

What happened here just seems like a bit of a big deal over nothing. Should the e-mail have been BCC'd rather than including everyone's names - yes, of course. But sure it's done now, I don't see the point in creating a fuss over it. You're probably technically right that it's a breach in data protection, but is there any harm actually done to anyone as a result?

evolving_doors

PhoenixParker wrote: »

Are college results really considered private data?

As others have noted, historically they never have been as results were posted publically. Presence at tutorials and repeat exams makes it clear who is repeating, top grades are announced in public fora with prizes. Degree awards are publicly announced. Colleges regularly talk about the results of past pupils, for instance if someone famous publicly claims a degree from college X, college X will correct the record if they don't in fact have that degree. The HSE and other bodies who deal with data that is actually private have none of those freedoms.

The pursuit of a degree is participation in an academic competition, and like other competitions the results can be published. While it sucks to have your name published with a Did Not Finish next to it, that's a risk and price of participation.

As for the issue of email address visibility, that's really a non-issue in a college setting. You're all effectively a small team of work colleagues so a bcc is unnecessary unless something truly private to each individual is being sent.

If it's data held by a company/organisation about you then it's 'truly' private.

freshpopcorn

Just a note for the girl to make. I had a lecturer used end the email about repeats to everybody even to those who passed!

Tom Dunne

Trinity College Dublin only started to allow Catholics to enrol in 1970. Does that qualify for "back in my day, this is how we did it?" Does that mean it was right?

Whether you accept it or not, the laws around what constitutes personal data, and, more importantly, what organisations can do with it, have changed considerably.

Red Alert

They shouldn't have done it, but to me it would be counterproductive to start a big stink about it. One reason I never send emails concerning exam times, repeats, or anything else to anyone other than the class group list.

Grolschevik

Tom Dunne wrote:

Trinity College Dublin only started to allow Catholics to enrol in 1970. Does that qualify for "back in my day, this is how we did it?" Does that mean it was right?

As an aside, it was the Catholic Church that banned going to Trinity til 1970, not the college itself...

Cakes and Ale

happywithlife wrote: »

Two things I see wrong here. First is the results issue and precious (someone else's phrase) as it might sound you are entitled to privacy. It personally wouldn't bother me if those repeating were all going to be in the same room anyway but I still understand one being upset at others knowing.
Second issue is the sharing of other people's email- just not on in today's world. Someone used CC inside of BC obviously and I would expect anyone working in college Admin to know how to send a blind group email.
Personally I'd wait till I had the results of my repeat (in case I feared repercussions at grading) then raise with Admin- a memo should go out to Admin staff and that should be the end of it

Re 2: It's quite often the case that all staff/student email addresses are visible to all students on e-learning platforms, or through whatever email system is in place. So they're not 'private' email addresses so to speak.

Re the email it may be that what is repeated has to be scheduled by the lecturer/teacher. Repeat presentations or in-class assessments for instance would need to be held at the one time, and scheduling these is easier through CC rather than BC (as all the repeats will have to be negotiate the time). So in these cases all repeating students will be meeting up together in any case. But outside of this BC would be more usual (or using a class group email if it's set up).

racersedge

racersedge wrote: »

I can attest to that theory. Currently doing a part-time degree course and nobody on it discusses the actual results. They talk vaguely about doing well or ther unhappiness with the results but never anything concrete. Quite different to my first trip to college.

Thats interesting. Part of going to college is learning to deal with life and I would suggest that internalising things like this might be a retrograde step.

Maybe its down to the facebook generation, where a facade that everything is 'good' is circulated to the world and lifes little bumps are kept hidden.

Not private data

Ideally wouldn't have been done like this

Students that fail modules probably best advised to concentrate on studying for repeats rather than making a mountain out of this molehill

evolving_doors

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not private data

Ideally wouldn't have been done like this

Students that fail modules probably best advised to concentrate on studying for repeats rather than making a mountain out of this molehill

Not sure what your first statement is saying. Are you saying college results should be in the public domain?

Sure they should focus on the repeat, but a wrong is still a wrong and if it isn't addressed then it could happen again in a varied form.
Say a lecturer is walking into college and meets one of their classmates and says 'oh yeah will you tell John he's failed'.

No need to fire the lecturer, just admin pass around email to all to use the bcc function and stick to college procedure on results and data protection.

KeithTS

A BCC perhaps would have been more polite but the college aren't there to be polite.
I love the idea of these students rocking up to interview for a graduate program and when asked about their results they get offended and walk out.

This may seem narrow minded and certainly doesn't apply in all cases but perhaps the college view it as if you're ashamed or feel like you have something to hide based on your results perhaps you'll be more determined next time and study harder so you don't suffer the public shaming like in GoT.

Gebgbegb

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Say a lecturer is walking into college and meets one of their classmates and says 'oh yeah will you tell John he's failed'.

As I understand it, this wasnt the results. These had been given earlier.

This was an email about the autumn exams, sent only to the students doing those exams - just the same as an email about the summer exam would have been sent to the students doing that exam.

Its issues like this that have resulted in this generation getting its post-millenial name.

evolving_doors

[Deleted User] wrote: »

As I understand it, this wasnt the results. These had been given earlier.

This was an email about the autumn exams, sent only to the students doing those exams - just the same as an email about the summer exam would have been sent to the students doing that exam.

Its issues like this that have resulted in this generation getting its post-millenial name.

Ya I can see the point that all of those students will be there anyway. Still though if we used a similar example for say a health practice, an email to all patients who failed a test telling them to come in on a certain day to see a specialist. Would that be OK?

king_of_inismac

As someone who has taught at third level, I'd advise you to let this one go.

Generally lecturers are up to their eyes with corrections this time of year and mistakes/oversights do happen. I (and the vast majority of my colleagues) do everything possible to help students, particularly those who are struggling.

I'm sure there is data protection legislation now covering exam results, but neither I nor my colleagues would have time to review it. Our constant goal is to support students and that takes 110% of our time.

I don't believe any material damage was done in this case, and I don't think reporting the lecturer to a registrar would benefit anyone.

If you want to avoid this happening again, consider emailing the lecturer himself/herself.

People make mistakes all the time (including students). A calm head is best in all cases.

endacl

Remember the good old days when results were pinned up on the notice board and nobody got their knickers in a twist?

evolving_doors

endacl wrote: »

Remember the good old days when results were pinned up on the notice board and nobody got their knickers in a twist?

I do remember those days, and it was very common for undergarments to be twisted when students started to compare results! That was across every course too btw not just within my own department.

siobhan08

Thank you for your replies.

I have advised my family member that they are right to be annoyed about the email but not to make a massive deal about it.

They have decided to email the person who sent the email stating that they were unhappy with how it was handled and to perhaps send the information individually or use BC instead of CC in future as this would protect student privacy

I certainly would not have liked information regarding my result getting sent to other students without me know back when I was at college.

Spiro66

Great idea by the college. I'd love to email the full set of results of a summer test to all the students/parents. People need to know where they rank with everyone else. Common requests at parent teacher meetings are "how did the whole class do". Privacy laws are all well and good but the next thing is we'll be hiding what we buy in Aldi!

evolving_doors

Spiro66 wrote: »

Great idea by the college. I'd love to email the full set of results of a summer test to all the students/parents. People need to know where they rank with everyone else. Common requests at parent teacher meetings are "how did the whole class do". Privacy laws are all well and good but the next thing is we'll be hiding what we buy in Aldi!

So at parent teacher meetings you tell parents where all the rest ranked!!!

siobhan08

Spiro66 wrote: »

Great idea by the college. I'd love to email the full set of results of a summer test to all the students/parents. People need to know where they rank with everyone else. Common requests at parent teacher meetings are "how did the whole class do". Privacy laws are all well and good but the next thing is we'll be hiding what we buy in Aldi!

Students shouldn't concern themselves with how they rank compared to others. If they apply themselves to the best of their ability. They will get what results they deserve

Spiro66

Gebgbegb wrote: »

So at parent teacher meetings you tell parents where all the rest ranked!!!

Of course I don't. Don't be silly. Take what I said with just a little salt. If a student gets say 60% I think he's entitled to know is that top of the class or bottom. And parents do constantly want to know where their child ranks. I use general terms like top third, bottom quarter etc if I'm asked. Students can easily pull the wool over their results by claiming "everyone failed mam"

Spiro66

siobhan08 wrote: »

Students shouldn't concern themselves with how they rank compared to others. If they apply themselves to the best of their ability. They will get what results they deserve

Unfortunately the SEC exams are all about ranking. If they insist on a bell curve someone's gotta be on the top and the bottom.

r93kaey5p2izun

I can't see rankings ever being acceptable in our school system, and can obviously see many negatives it could cause for certain students. But as a learner I personally would welcome it and find it very useful and I think many students would feel the same. It was done in my college and I feel it helped me a lot. In second level we were told the average (pretty sure it was the mean) result from all tests and this was printed on reports at Christmas and Summer too.

As for the case in the OP - I think there has been a error made in terms of data protection but I can't believe someone would get upset about it in these circumstances - personally I find it difficult to understand that mindset. Fair enough to bring it to the lecturer's attention that this was not the correct thing to do though.

PhoenixParker

siobhan08 wrote: »

Students shouldn't concern themselves with how they rank compared to others. If they apply themselves to the best of their ability. They will get what results they deserve

Actually it's pretty important in college exams to know where you rank compared with your peers. Subjects and exams arent standardised with regard to difficulty so class rank becomes a useful gauge. There are subjects in college where the top ranked person will score in the high 60s and others where that'd place you half way down the class. Some us universities provide class rank with grade when giving results, others grade on a curve in an attempt to standardise.

Academia is a competitive endeavour. Like running a race you are of course competing against yourself to see how well you can do, but you're also competing with all your classmates to be the best candidate in the job and postgrad market. Your results are more personal then your 5k time in the local park run but to compare them to medical records is ridiculous.

Aubrie Odd Knitter

Aubrie Odd Knitter wrote: »

I can't see rankings ever being acceptable in our school system, and can obviously see many negatives it could cause for certain students.

That was exactly what was done when I was in primary school many years ago, and it was very acceptable.

The teacher prepared a table with the marks of the entire class in all subjects, but no names. He then placed a line under the marks for the relevant student and added the students name.

Of all the marking systems its the only one which gave the parents a objective idea of how their child is doing, not only overall, but on an individual subject basis and in comparison to their peers.

People have got too sensitive these days, always looking on the negative.

BlinkingLights

The negative side of it is someone is humiliated and never comes back and it did happen in the old days too.

I know one woman who was in college in the 80s and got an embarrassing result and was so embarrassed by the posting on the board she just didn't come back to university.

The notion behind it is motivation by completion and threat of humiliation. There's no question about it.

I was doing a postgrad course recently and one lecturer was still just putting a table of results with student numbers on a posting in Blackboard. You could easily identify many people as some had older student ID numbers from their undergraduate days years ago.

Posting student numbers these days is probably covered under the DPA as they are personal data and can be used for other purposes.

In classic Irish style though if you complain you'll likely be deemed a trouble maker. Personally, I would wait until after the course is over.

touts

I assumed schools or collges were not allowed to tell mellenials they failed at anything because it always seems to come as huge shock to their system and they treat it as akin to assault when you give them even the mildest negative feedback in the workplace.

.......

This post has been deleted.

evolving_doors

Deleted User wrote: »

That was exactly what was done when I was in primary school many years ago, and it was very acceptable.

The teacher prepared a table with the marks of the entire class in all subjects, but no names. He then placed a line under the marks for the relevant student and added the students name.

Of all the marking systems its the only one which gave the parents a objective idea of how their child is doing, not only overall, but on an individual subject basis and in comparison to their peers.

People have got too sensitive these days, always looking on the negative.

IF they want to know objectively how their child is doing then the last thing is to be comparing it to the class... you could have a student who thinks they are king of the heap when they are at the top of their class with an 80% grade with little effort. The best way is to ask they teacher how are they doing and the teacher would suggest they should be aiming for 100%.
Comparing with a small cohort of peers in primary is flawed though and does the parent and student no favours for the future.
Case in point... average student in 1st year of secondary school and parent says "But they were top of their class in Primary school, what's gone wrong?".. before you know it the parent is questioning your teaching, demanding they be changed to a 'better teacher' or looking for resource hours for the student (:eek:). Also it can filter through to other parents which is the 'week class' and which is the 'fast paced class' and so the toxic poison sets in.

Similarly, in secondary we might have 3-5 different classes in one subject (e.g. maths and english). Are you then supposed to give the student's ranking with the class AND the yearly cohort. Maybe you should compare it with previous years too just in case.
Then also explain the mean, modal and median mark to account for outliers (students away at matches etc!).
What if there is variation in common testing across that year group between teachers?

The teacher is the professional and understands that every class is different, if you end up giving a ranking, then it would only be fair to qualify it with a brief discussion on statistics and mixed abilities. All during a 5 minute Parent teacher meeting.. you gotta be kidding. Their grade is their grade, if they want to improve, then listen to the teacher as to how to improve it.

For college, BCC is the way to go, especially in relation to data protection. It's just good practice in any organisation.

evolving_doors

touts wrote: »

I assumed schools or collges were not allowed to tell mellenials they failed at anything because it always seems to come as huge shock to their system and they treat it as akin to assault when you give them even the mildest negative feedback in the workplace.

What are you talking about!!! Colleges tell people they fail every day... they just refrain from telling everyone else at the same time.

Millenials don't exist btw ... but people born between 1980 and 2000 do though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HFwok9SlQQ

BlinkingLights

What exactly gives you the notion that a student ID isn't personal data ?!


From the Data Protection Act:

"personal data means data relating to a living individual who is or can be identified either from the data or from the data in conjunction with other information that is in, or is likely to come into, the possession of the data controller...

And

EU Data Protection Directive (95/46/EC)

"personal data" shall mean any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person ('Data Subject'); an identifiable person is one who can be identified, directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an identification number or to one or more factors specific to his physical, physiological, mental, economic, cultural or social identity.