S & S opt out / in

Icsics

So....we must decide by 11th Aug. I'm leaning towards opt out, what are people's thinking on this? If you are already an opt out do you still submit the form ? Thanks

solerina

I know of one TUI school where 8 were able to opt out and all 8 did when it was offered to them a few weeks ago. Am leaning towards opt out too, would love to know what everyone thinks...I remember reading the financial pros and cons somewhere a few weeks ago but can't for the life of me find them now.

ccazza

I opted out the first time around. Definitely have no regrets. My school is an easy enough school, wouldn't be any trouble in corridors or classes but it's great to know my free time is my own. Costs me €67 gross a pay check. Down about €28 net a fortnight. Had never signed up to pensionability so wasn't really concerned about that element of it. No one who opted out in my school has regretted opting out.

Crazyteacher

Was subbing in an etb school and they were all opting out. The pay made very little difference and one teacher put it to me that it was taking work from subs who get paid much more than what they were getting.

spurious

Crazyteacher wrote: »

Was subbing in an etb school and they were all opting out. The pay made very little difference and one teacher put it to me that it was taking work from subs who get paid much more than what they were getting.

That was always my attitude to it too.

r93kaey5p2izun

Nearly everyone who could opt out in my school has done so. I would dearly love to have had the chance.

It is causing some issues with regard to planning for next year already as it was being used to cover tutor time.

ethical

We have been sold a pup once again.......how much are the Dept.saving by holding onto all the Pension Contributions of those who opt out now?

solerina

ethical wrote: »

We have been sold a pup once again.......how much are the Dept.saving by holding onto all the Pension Contributions of those who opt out now?

Very good point....surely that is borderline fraud !! Or do we let them away with it because if we opt out we know they won't return the money we already have in the pension fund from previous S&S.

ethical

If we opt out......the money we have already contributed for pension purposes should be returned,.....again we need legal advice,who do we ask!

MacGyver007

I availed of the original opt-out under HRA. Almost all my colleagues in my school who had the option to opt out did so. Many more people certainly would have but were prevented from doing so. I don't regret it at all. The cut in net salary works out at around €2 per day.

doc_17

Is this thread like the opt out option itself? Do you have to have been teaching for 15 years before you can contribute participate?

Icsics

doc_17 wrote: »

Is this thread like the opt out option itself? Do you have to have been teaching for 15 years before you can contribute participate?

Ha ha! Yes Doc there the new rules...along with paying to not do something you never did..!! I am an opt out too & will be opting out again. And if there's an opt out for CP hrs I'll be opting out of them too!

judeboy101

The irony is one lad I know who opted out originally would be ineligible for this opt out by not having 15 yrs done. So as it stands over the next 25yrs inflation will negate the price he has to pay as he will always pay the same 28 quid a week. The ones I know opting out this time will be hit with a bigger bill but its still worth every penny.

Icsics

Will we not all pay the same Judeboy?

judeboy101

Icsics wrote: »

Will we not all pay the same Judeboy?

I cud be wrong on this but those in the original opt out got deducted a flat fee for life, those in New opt out, their fee goes up with each increment.

TheDriver

Just to chip in regarding pension deduction-remember we pay a subscription to a pension scheme, we don't pay contributions into a pension pot. So pensions board won't be able to entertain a dispute because your subscription changes along with circumstance as opposed to contributions standing to you forever. Lastly I think you still pay pension levy on it

Icsics

Will we not all pay the same Judeboy?

doc_17

If I had 15 post or more I'd contribute.

judeboy101

Icsics wrote: »

Will we not all pay the same Judeboy?

No its a 2 tier opt out

Icsics

judeboy101 wrote: »

No its a 2 tier opt out

Thanks Judeboy (& thanks for answering the question twice!)

Icsics

judeboy101 wrote: »

No its a 2 tier opt out

Checked with HO, they confirmed this....fee remains same for people who've already opted out.

Daisy 55

Does that mean they get hit again? To still not do it?!

judeboy101

Daisy 55 wrote: »

Does that mean they get hit again? To still not do it?!

? Those on original opt out pay the same amount 1769 ish per year. Those on new opt out pay 1769 for 1st year, but when they get the next increment they will pay 1769 plus %increase between one increment and next. This will continue until retirement

acequion

Opt out if you can,don't even hesitate! You'll NEVER regret opting out but you'll big time regret it if you don't.

judeboy101

acequion wrote: »

Opt out if you can,don't even hesitate! You'll NEVER regret opting out but you'll big time regret it if you don't.

There will be an 'opt out/opt in' option in every future deal. The last opt out deal was a "once in a lifetime chance" but guess what? It wasn't.

judeboy101

If you EVER have any inclination to go for a Principal//DP job this might have implications if you are an opt out. Part of their job is s&s so you'd end up as a principal/DP doing s&s while paying for the privilege not to do it.

Icsics

acequion wrote: »

Opt out if you can,don't even hesitate! You'll NEVER regret opting out but you'll big time regret it if you don't.

So true acequion, it's really very little money for peace of mind.

evolving_doors

If very few people do the substitution in a school then they'll get stuck for it more often at the start (till they've reached the limit).
Where as, if there were a large cohort doing it then it would be lightly spread over a longer period.

Therefore... if you are eligible to opt out then you should take account of the age profile and size of school first. Smallish school with many over 15 yrs -->then opt out. Large school with many junior colleagues -->keep the money as you won't be called as much.

Is that logic correct?

judeboy101

Gebgbegb wrote: »

If very few people do the substitution in a school then they'll get stuck for it more often at the start (till they've reached the limit).
Where as, if there were a large cohort doing it then it would be lightly spread over a longer period.

Therefore... if you are eligible to opt out then you should take account of the age profile and size of school first. Smallish school with many over 15 yrs -->then opt out. Large school with many junior colleagues -->keep the money as you won't be called as much.

Is that logic correct?

That's true but large school might have more extra curric/ absenteeism. I know in my school some had all there super used up by Easter as the choose times more likely to be used (afternoon slots and Friday slots)

maude6868

I reckon there will still be a continuing drain to TUI based on the increment fiasco, ie. increments beginning again from June 2017 for ASTI which sets us all back a few years. Moving to TUI means you get back to your original increment status.

TheDriver

I want to add another point to the whole debate. I appreciate its people's right to opt out and can financially be the best solution. But lets think of one other point: the school community: Now I know it depends on your school but lets just imagine your school has a good working relationship amongst everyone, principal and deputy work well with staff, students get on with staff. There are 2 points to note: 1) S&S can prove to be sociable for teachers because they get to meet students outside the formal classroom and 2) experienced teachers provide more stable supervision than substitute teachers. The more experienced teachers providing the lunchtime cover required, the more relaxed the school generally will be. Substitute teachers won't know the hotspots, the troublesome kids and the courage and confidence to deal with situations prior to them escalating to serious situations.
I can see a staff meeting in some school in the next few years where people are giving out about the trouble being caused at lunchtime and one of the main factors is the lack of experience in the supervision.

TheDriver

judeboy101 wrote: »

If you EVER have any inclination to go for a Principal//DP job this might have implications if you are an opt out. Part of their job is s&s so you'd end up as a principal/DP doing s&s while paying for the privilege not to do it.

Very true, I hadn't thought about that. And even if you hold tough and say you opted out, you still have to organise and arrange it.

Bean Scoile

TheDriver wrote: »

I want to add another point to the whole debate. I appreciate its people's right to opt out and can financially be the best solution. But lets think of one other point: the school community: Now I know it depends on your school but lets just imagine your school has a good working relationship amongst everyone, principal and deputy work well with staff, students get on with staff. There are 2 points to note: 1) S&S can prove to be sociable for teachers because they get to meet students outside the formal classroom and 2) experienced teachers provide more stable supervision than substitute teachers. The more experienced teachers providing the lunchtime cover required, the more relaxed the school generally will be. Substitute teachers won't know the hotspots, the troublesome kids and the courage and confidence to deal with situations prior to them escalating to serious situations.
I can see a staff meeting in some school in the next few years where people are giving out about the trouble being caused at lunchtime and one of the main factors is the lack of experience in the supervision.

That sounds more like an argument to pay people appropriately than an argument to martyr yourself to the cause to me.

This idea of everyone pulling together for the good for the school is fine if everyone is being treated fairly. I don't believe s and s as it currently stands is a fair deal and as a result it's not something I want to be involved with.

judeboy101

TheDriver wrote: »

I want to add another point to the whole debate. I appreciate its people's right to opt out and can financially be the best solution. But lets think of one other point: the school community: Now I know it depends on your school but lets just imagine your school has a good working relationship amongst everyone, principal and deputy work well with staff, students get on with staff. There are 2 points to note: 1) S&S can prove to be sociable for teachers because they get to meet students outside the formal classroom and 2) experienced teachers provide more stable supervision than substitute teachers. The more experienced teachers providing the lunchtime cover required, the more relaxed the school generally will be. Substitute teachers won't know the hotspots, the troublesome kids and the courage and confidence to deal with situations prior to them escalating to serious situations.
I can see a staff meeting in some school in the next few years where people are giving out about the trouble being caused at lunchtime and one of the main factors is the lack of experience in the supervision.

Pay peanuts, expect monkeys springs to mind

TheDriver

I'm not for one minute defending the rate of pay or the value of it to the pay packet, just adding other aspects to the discussion.
From various schools around, I am hearing very few are opting out that haven't done so previously and the odd one is opting in.
And you're right Bean Scoile, everyone should be treated fairly, both at school level and at national level. But alas, I appreciate every school is different and some will utilise this as a method to fight back at unfair school management.

ethical

In some schools senior management carry out the S&S all the time,in other schools Senior Management have their names on rotas but DO NOT part-take in this very important part of school life......and YES there is more trouble around on yard duty etc where Senior Management do not put their shoulders to the wheel!

TheDriver

ethical wrote: »

In some schools senior management carry out the S&S all the time,in other schools Senior Management have their names on rotas but DO NOT part-take in this very important part of school life......and YES there is more trouble around on yard duty etc where Senior Management do not put their shoulders to the wheel!

Prevention vs fire fighting

spurious

They are hours part-time teachers should be paid for, not free work tacked on to teachers while they slashed pay and conditions. The dreamchild of some clueless civil servant no doubt.
The unions should never have agreed to it. The beginning of the end.

dalalada

Hey everyone, I'm returning from the U.K after 3 years teaching to this **** show. I am fully qualified. I want to opt out. Can I? In 2014 I didn't have a choice as I wasn't working in teaching. I did, however, get paid for unqualified subbing back in 2011 if it makes any difference.  I finished uni in 2014.

judeboy101

dalalada wrote: »

Hey everyone, I'm returning from the U.K after 3 years teaching to this **** show. I am fully qualified. I want to opt out. Can I? In 2014 I didn't have a choice as I wasn't working in teaching. I did, however, get paid for unqualified subbing back in 2011 if it makes any difference.  I finished uni in 2014.

How many years teaching in Ireland have you? You can only opt out if you have 15 yrs I think

dalalada

None all my teaching was in uk

dalalada

15 years? What kind of douchbag wrote this ****e? man what the hell. and dont get me started on all these bs circulars ive to catch up on. ****show.ie

Icsics

dalalada wrote: »

15 years? What kind of douchbag wrote this ****e? man what the hell. and dont get me started on all these bs circulars ive to catch up on. ****show.ie

Charming

dalalada

I can see why this has happened in my absence, if you had as much passion as I have Icsics it would be better than being a smart arse. No wonder our government owns us, were gone so weak and getting weaker. Too P.C

acequion

dalalada wrote: »

I can see why this has happened in my absence, if you had as much passion as I have Icsics it would be better than being a smart arse. No wonder our government owns us, were gone so weak and getting weaker. Too P.C

You're dead right there dalalada. We've become a bunch of spineless me feiners and only have ourselves to blame for the mess that the profession of teaching has become.

Best of luck and welcome home.

derb12

dalalada wrote: »

I can see why this has happened in my absence, if you had as much passion as I have Icsics it would be better than being a smart arse. No wonder our government owns us, were gone so weak and getting weaker. Too P.C

Just out of curiosity dalalada, how does it work in the uk? You always see the teachers supervising yard etc in the school based documentaries. Is it mandatory? Are you paid extra for it?

MrJones1973

TheDriver wrote: »

I'm not for one minute defending the rate of pay or the value of it to the pay packet, just adding other aspects to the discussion.
From various schools around, I am hearing very few are opting out that haven't done so previously and the odd one is opting in.
And you're right Bean Scoile, everyone should be treated fairly, both at school level and at national level. But alas, I appreciate every school is different and some will utilise this as a method to fight back at unfair school management.

For the good of the school=how long is a piece of string? Mocks corrected=good of school? Extra curricular for the good of the school? Salary cut and promotion prospects disappear to pay bankers etc? Kids not properly parented even in stable homes-thus you have to put up with their antics for the good of the school? On and on it goes.

My limit reached.