Eu Ban on semi auto centre fire rifles

BillBen

Sorry if this topic has been covered before. I was talking to a friend of mine, he is interested in getting an m1 carbine as a few of us have them. The RFD he was speaking to told him he could get him a rifle but told him not to bother as he was told by someone in the department of justice that an eu ban was coming into place in another couple of months. Has anyone heard if this is true, I only got the m1 recently and would not be happy if I've to hand it in. Cheers

Grizzly 45

KNEW this was going to happen in Ireland sooner or later..Utter confusion on the EU directive.
BULL****E from the dealer and dept.
There is NO ban on semi auto rifles under the new EU legislation.What there is is a Magazine ban on over ten shots for long arms or 20 shots for short arms. However there is no logical explanation what we are supposed to do with now millions of mags out there?Do we hold onto them,convert them?Hand them into AGS?Who is paying compensation for them?What happens with ones that can take multiple calibers?IE 50 cal SOCOM in a .223 mag. A 20 rounder in .223 will hold TEN SOCOM rounds,legal or not? IOW this is an uttter fk up that applies to ALL actions ,not just semi autos.

HOWEVER you can get an exemption to the mag ban of Cat A prohibited from your government for sports shooting,security purposes and if your country has a national defence force using civillian reservists..

What the dept MIGHT have got confused is that former military assault rifles in government stock cannot be converted anymore to semi auto only fire and sold to the public. As the Mi carbine was never full auto in the first place,it is irrevelant.
If you want to see the whole shebang.Go look at the thread "More crap on the way" or go to Firearms united.com for the whole story.

Download this link and print this off and give it to your pal to take to his dealer and to forward it to Mr/Mrs DOJ Jobsworthy .This is the directive as it stands under EU law!

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?type=AMD&reference=A8-2016-0251&format=PDF&language=en&secondRef=107-107&utm_source=gunsweek&utm_medium=textlink&utm_campaign=Read+the+text+of+the+revised+Firearms+Directive+approved+by+the+EU+Parliament&utm_content=674a&utm_term=Law+Regulations

Also here is a EU article on it in short https://www.gunsweek.com/en/current/news/eu-gun-ban-approved-without-amendments
in short

There will be no total ban and mass confiscation of “Category B7” modern sporting firearms, both working and deactivated

There will be no total ban and mass confiscation of firearms that can accept magazines over 10 rounds in capacity

There will be no total ban and mass confiscation or mandatory deactivation of historical and modern automatic firearms kept by museums or by private collectors for cultural and research purposes

There will be no total ban of all realistic imitations of automatic firearms

There will be no mandatory medical and psychological tests for gun owners

BillBen

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

KNEW this was going to happen in Ireland sooner or later..Utter confusion on the EU directive.
BULL****E from the dealer and dept.
There is NO ban on semi auto rifles under the new EU legislation.What there is is a Magazine ban on over ten shots for long arms or 20 shots for short arms.

HOWEVER you can get an exemption to the mag ban of Cat A prohibited from your government for sports shooting,security purposes and if your country has a national defence force using civillian reservists..

What the dept MIGHT have got confused is that former military assault rifles in government stock cannot be converted anymore to semi auto only fire and sold to the public. As the Mi carbine was never full auto in the first place,it is irrevelant.
If you want to see the whole shebang.Go look at the thread "More crap on the
way" or go to Firearms united.com for the whole story.

Cheers Grizz.

Walter Mittys Brother

You taking bets on that Grizzly? Twasn't too many years ago some were saying they wouldn't loose their fullbore pistols & many of my pals did .............

Vegeta

Walter Mittys Brother wrote: »

Twasn't too many years ago some were saying they wouldn't loose their fullbore pistols & many of my pals did .............

I thought anyone who had a fullbore pistol was allowed to keep it?

.243

Vegeta wrote: »

I thought anyone who had a fullbore pistol was allowed to keep it?

Allowed to reapply for a licence (didn't mean they'd get it)

Grizzly 45

Walter Mittys Brother wrote: »

You taking bets on that Grizzly? Twasn't too many years ago some were saying they wouldn't loose their fullbore pistols & many of my pals did .............

Yeah,I'll take bets on this..:P
Simply because.Looking back it now from nine years later.People went mental with them[pistols] here.Going from 1 case to over 1500 within a space of 12/18 months already worried the Hell out of the most gun hating police and govt.

The whole IPSC disaster did nothing to help the situation.Eventhough they were warned and no one considerd a back up position of getting .22 semi rifles,Sa Cf or even shotgun going to have fall back on.

This is EU legislation,not national legislation,and if they Irish govt want to confiscate these or pull another TCO stunt they are in direct violation of EU law Article 5&7 of EUCHR,as well as this directive if they are proposing any sort of
restriction by "EU law nuthin we can do !"..So have the cheque book handy Irish govt.

Dont think for one minute that this just applies to semi auto rifles..Read the legislation I posted.It applies to ALL types of firearms[EXCLUDING.22lr] CAPABLE of taking a detachable magazine of over ten rounds.So thats everything from a WW1 SMLE to a modern whatever. We are now ALL truely in the same boat.Your deer stalking rifle is just as much affected as my SA.It also bTW applies to SHOTGUNS,yup your pump and semi are in the same boat.

In fact I know of one of the winners of the semi auto court case boys near me.Bought a Aussie .308 LE recently.Our local FAO rang him up to get written confirmation that "under this new legislation" could he cerify that the bolt action Lee Enfield could only hold FIVE[5] shots??" Now we have the above case as well..And it shows no one seems to know wTF this is about and are starting to apply makey up law again..

As usual ,while the Irish national organisations have been involved in dick measuring, and cat fighting,no one was paying any attention as to what was going on in the EU.NARGC is relying on FACE breifs,and FACE has some serious internal problems at the moment in Europe and has lost a lot of traction in Brussels.[As someone put it,yesterdays men riding on a dinosaur]In fact FACE only responded to thi crisis last year 6WEEKS after the legislation was proposed,because it was pointed out to them that it would affect loads of their EU wide membership of hunters. As I said it slipped by all our organisations despite it being pointed out to them here and at a breifing by NARGC in Athlone with Marian Harkin MEP [and the one who shall remain nameless] which was attended by a dozen people,that this could affect Ireland and that there is a possibility of "gold plating" the legislation here.Went right over the Irish organisations heads...As usual:rolleyes:

Same as when it was pointed out to them in 2008 that ,that FF reptile from Louth stated in the AGSI conference of May 2008 that he intended to "toughen up the Irish gun laws to prevent a US style gun culture". There was with that statement a clear and intent of a hostile act and with that every man jack of the organisations should have manning battle stations and been onto that nasty little mans office to say WTF do you mean by that?....Silence and even when it was posted here,the attitude was "ah shure nuthin will happen be grand." "He has more to worry about as the arse has just fallen out of the economy" Was one post by someone here that sticks in my mind.

9 years later it seems or organisations still have learned nothing and even those on the FCP dont seem to be asking questions.Which is why they need someone from Firearms United Ireland on the FCP.To give context to the effect of this on Ireland.
Also,I think the IG and AGS realise that after losing 95% of court cases in the pistol and semi auto rifle situation,and having to pay court costs now if they screw up.Then making an utter hames of trying an all out gun ban a month later after the first DC costs were awarded and discovering that they were looking down the slurry hose when they turned the pump on the tanker on the firearms issue and made complete tits of themselves with falseified evidence,dodgy statististcs and outright lies.They escaped by tooth skins from having the Garda Authorithy start really digg inginto that manure pile,by Frannie doing some pulling on their behalf.

Do they REALLY want to go down this road and start mucking about with EU legislation,that is pretty clear on this issue?? ANY firearms type becomes a CAT A [prohibited] firearm with a mag of over ten shots in it... You can apply for an exemption for this as a SPORTS SHOOTER[HINT!!HINT to all Irish disiplines!!:rolleyes:],military reservist,[Sop to the Swiss,Danes,Norewiegins ,etc]or armed private security service.

If the long arm magazine has TEN SHOTS only it stays a CAT B Irrespective of type!! This is what Firearms United and many others fought for tooth& nail in brussels for and fair fuks to Vicky Ford[UK] and Dita Chernoiskwa[CZ] they stood down Sir Julian King's 3AM table thumping and teddy throwing episode on this issue trying to force UK stylegun legislation on the rest of the EU in a Trilouge[AkA a star chamber where most EU legislation is decided these days!:mad:]
If it hadnt been for these two tough ladies,we would be in a worse situation EU wide than we are now.
That's why I will take bets on this.

Grizzly 45

.243 wrote: »

Allowed to reapply for a licence (didn't mean they'd get it)

About 50 to70% of them did,if they stood up to the plate and spent a day in their local DC,and unfortuneatly had to fork out for the privilidge on solicitors and JC.:( That is what AGS was relying on,costs in alot of cases were too much for some folks.This is why FU Irl is looking at setting up a legal team to fight these sort of cases for members.

Vegeta

.243 wrote: »

Allowed to reapply for a licence (didn't mean they'd get it)

Good point

Grizzly 45

Oh forgot to add as well to the above.Even if you do have an "assault rifle".Or to be specific to EU legislation .A converted to semi auto former military weapon or a collector of full auto weapons.(yes there are EU countries that allow their mere civillians to own FA stuff)
You are allowed to keep ,trade,sell,buy any of such under the EU directive as the lics will be grandfathered and must be recognised by EU states.Seeing that we have a few lads who might have converted military semi autos .This might be of revelance.But again you are allowed to keep them as they are not illegal under the directive.So anyone using this" They will be bannedd under the EU law".Doesn't know what they are on about ir is making it up .

yubabill1

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Oh forgot to add as well to the above.Even if you do have an "assault rifle".Or to be specific to EU legislation .A converted to semi auto former military weapon or a collector of full auto weapons.(yes there are EU countries that allow their mere civillians to own FA stuff)
You are allowed to keep ,trade,sell,buy any of such under the EU directive as the lics will be grandfathered and must be recognised by EU states.Seeing that we have a few lads who might have converted military semi autos .This might be of revelance.But again you are allowed to keep them as they are not illegal under the directive.So anyone using this" They will be bannedd under the EU law".Doesn't know what they are on about ir is making it up .

Are you sure about the grandfathering, griz?

The firearms directive is a minimum and allows more restrictive legislation in individual national jurisdictions, including the banning of semi auto rifles.

Grizzly 45

Yes very sure. Or as sure as anyone can be on anything these days.

That is in the EU legislation and directive.It was a big sticking point with Alan Alexis,when it was pointed out that the directive icould face a massive challange under EUCHR artice 7.That would leave a govt and the EU open to challange under that if your property is confiscated for the common good,you must be refunded at market value at the time of the legislation.Hence they came up with this Grand fathering clause on all this stuff.

*I'll point out that the EU also makes clear distinctions between Modern Sporting Rifles[which most of us have] and Assault rifles[whether still in select fire configuration or de horned to semi auto only configuration].THEN there is the problem of the German and a few other countries "war weapons control of" laws Which prohibits genuine Dehorned surplus guns being sold to civvies in the first place.For example I never knew in Germany you cannot get a genuine AK 7.62X39 or AKM 5.?? caliber gun in the orginal configuration in Semi auto because of this law.Both calibers are prohibited to sport shooters and you only get a 3shot mag for hunters in SA rifles.So what is availabe are Modern sporting rifles with an AK look.

IOW the Irish govt couldnt suddenly decide all our rifles are now worth a market value of ten quid.They have to go with the value to purchase here and now on the open market... Yes they can ban what they want.BUT THEY HAVE TO PAY FOR IT NOW!Dont forget there is precedent now as well with the UK having to pay compensation for both handguns and rifles,and what a clusterfk that was!and the fact is it would be contravening agreed and signed EU directive.That Ireland signed and voted for.So how'd that look."yeah we voted to leave them alone on a EU level,but we'll ban them at home."
It's also the reason they left off banning stuff in 2015,forking out money for stuff that wasn't bothering anyone would not go down well with Auntie Merkel&Co in still bankrupt Ireland.[ Think Herr junkner will know our budget in 2017 about three days before us plebs hear about it.]


That said,the French shooters are facing a French govt ban on all belt fed semi autos at the moment,but TBH I'm not surprised ..There has been messing going on in a certain French gun club with lads buying minimally converted full autos out of Luxenbourg and putting in drop in kits to bring them back to FA apprently.

And the final chapter on this directive is not written in stone yet.It is being challanged in the European court by the Czech,Slovakian and proably also the Finnish govts in the next few months on numerous issues ranging from National defence to human rights...One that applies here too ironically to us shooters..
DID YOU ALL KNOW ... It violates both EU and UN human rights to be forced to join any ,party,organisation,grouping,sect,religion or other body against your will to obtain any ITEM or right in a society???
Can anyone put together this sentence,"you must join a ....club,before your liscense will be considerd for a .....?"
[Goes back to Herr Hitlers Germany in the 1930s and joining the party to get on in life.]

yubabill1

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Yes very sure. Or as sure as anyone can be on anything these days.

That is in the EU legislation and directive.It was a big sticking point with Alan Alexis,when it was pointed out that the directive icould face a massive challange under EUCHR artice 7.That would leave a govt and the EU open to challange under that if your property is confiscated for the common good,you must be refunded at market value at the time of the legislation.Hence they came up with this Grand fathering clause on all this stuff.



And the final chapter on this directive is not written in stone yet.It is being challanged in the European court by the Czech,Slovakian and proably also the Finnish govts in the next few months on numerous issues ranging from National defence to human rights...One that applies here too ironically to us shooters..
DID YOU ALL KNOW ... It violates both EU and UN human rights to be forced to join any ,party,organisation,grouping,sect,religion or other body against your will to obtain any ITEM or right in a society???
Can anyone put together this sentence,"you must join a ....club,before your liscense will be considerd for a .....?"
[Goes back to Herr Hitlers Germany in the 1930s and joining the party to get on in life.]

Well, Frances in her wisdom put all new SA licence applicants on notice that she was bringing in new legislation which might be retrospective to the date of said notice.....in effect "we warned you - we're not paying compo"

These challenges and freedom of association thing......dunno how far they'll get (especially on the freedom of association; here they simply ask you for good reason to possess, one of the options for proving good reason being membership of a club.....you would have to prove that good reason to possess was club membership in the case of virtually every applicant to demonstrate a policy of enforced club membership..).

Grizzly 45

[

QUOTE=yubabill1;103886110]Well, Frances in her wisdom put all new SA licence applicants on notice that she was bringing in new legislation which might be retrospective to the date of said notice.....in effect "we warned you - we're not paying compo"

Well,she can then explain herself in the EU court of justice,as to why she is confiscating Irish peoples property without due recompense and in direct violation of EUCHR article 7. EU law in this case Trumps[nice pun] Irish law as this isnt firearms law anymore...Simple as that.
Explain then if it was so simple for this to be done that it hasn't been done yet
and could have been done two years ago?? Or 9 years ago with hand guns??

Ireland is already in enough trouble on "human rights issues" already in the Eu supreme court that it doesn't need to add another case to its list.And remember its NOT JUST SA's anymore,it is any gun with any mechanism over ten shots..The EU directive is categorically clear that SA's cannot be singled out for bans just because they are SA's.Or that they could take greater than 10 shot mags.

These challenges and freedom of association thing......dunno how far they'll get (especially on the freedom of association; here they simply ask you for good reason to possess, one of the options for proving good reason being membership of a club.....you would have to prove that good reason to possess was club membership in the case of virtually every applicant to demonstrate a policy of enforced club membership..).

Good reason to posses,Target shooting... do you have to be a club member necessarily? NO If I have insurance and a liscense I can shoot at any range in Ireland in a competition.How and when I "train" for a competition is NOTB of the issuing authorithy.Their concern is good reason Given [Target shooting] Where[various clubs] When[Whenever there is a competition if I feel like attending] Do I store the guns securely [Yes] and all the rest of it[Yes].Being a club member is a supposition and again a pre ordained requirement by AGS. But in fact there is no ASFIK requirement in the statues to be a club member as a pre condition of having a liscense for anything?

Ergo,it is if the above is true ,an illegal precondition espoused by the GUIDELINES not by law of the land. And if they are saying you MUST BE a member of somthing you really dont want to be of for whatever reason,it is again illegal under EU law.

Put it like this.I'm no lawyer,and this might sound totally outlandish to us here.But there ARE very good EU lawyers in Finland ,Switzerland,Czech Republic,Holland,Slovakia,Poland and Hungary who are avid gun owners and are putting together challanges on this very aspect of the directive.As this is violating their citizens rights of freedom to join or not any organisation to aquire an item.
If you note it is again the former East bloc countries taking this seriously as they lived under this kind of dictatorship wher if you wanted anything from a car,a apartment,a job ,even a hunting liscense,you had to be a Communist party member of a certain grade.So they take this "democracy" lark abit more seriously than us lazy lot in the Western EU countries.:rolleyes:
So we'll wait and see what happens when this is challanged in the EU supreme court and if the EU court rules in our favour...Life could get intresting here on this topic.

yubabill1

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

[

Well,she can then explain herself in the EU court of justice,as to why she is confiscating Irish peoples property without due recompense and in direct violation of EUCHR article 7. EU law in this case Trumps[nice pun] Irish law as this isnt firearms law anymore...Simple as that.
Explain then if it was so simple for this to be done that it hasn't been done yet
and could have been done two years ago?? Or 9 years ago with hand guns??

C'mon, we all know they don't confiscate, they just made it almost impossible to license/use CF pistols while allowing them to be owned c/o RFD's storage.

Since you could still own a CF pistol (but not use it or have it at home) they did not have to pay compo.

the EU firearms directive had a heavy input from the Irish, as no-one is quite as good as screwing their citizens over with catch 22 legislation as we are.

I mean, we were the first to tax a tax (we pay VAT on the VRT).

gunny123

yubabill1 wrote: »

the Irish, as no-one is quite as good as screwing their citizens over with catch 22 legislation as we are.

You could put that to music and sing it.

Grizzly 45

True.But that is also illegal nowadays.You cant deny anyone their use of property either by legislation designed to deny usage.
The reason we get this kind of ****e legislation is because we allow people who govern us to get away with it.
VRT is also illegal under the EU legislation and because our govt poor mouth it in Brussels they got away with it.We otoh wont get off our holes and start telking our elected that we are European and not irish govt ala carte Europeans.
Anyways.Will contact DOJ on Mon and see the story is.

yubabill1

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

VRT is also illegal under the EU legislation and because our govt poor mouth it in Brussels they got away with it.We otoh wont get off our holes and start telking our elected that we are European and not irish govt ala carte Europeans.
Anyways.Will contact DOJ on Mon and see the story is.

RE VRT; AFAIK they pay a fine every year which is somewhat less than the VRT amount collected.

Would love it if someone took them to court on it, would make the 13Bn from Apple (which they don't want, of course and which is going into a trust until the issue is resolved - AND which Leo wants indemnity against in case the trust loses money) look like loose change.

WRT firearms, the mark of Irish legislation is all over this directive. Sincerely hope the challenges win, but have my doubts. It's all political, you see and we're relying on justice (which went out the door with privacy).

Something else that gets little MSM mention is that Poland, Austria and Hungary (I think) are refusing their quota of Angela's invitees and the EU is threatening financial retribution if they continue to assert their sovereignty.

Big time East-West split, Putin is laughing up his sleeve. All he has to do is give the EU enough rope.

Grizzly 45

"Justice?Have to wait until you get to Heaven for that one!" As a barrister once told me:)Much better to have a solid case using irrefutable arguements against man made laws.
I admit it does look "Irish" all right,y. It's a screw up as only legislation could be produced by our shower in the Dail with the EU itself the biggest loser,because now literally millions of gun owners across the EU will never trust the Brussels dictatorship anymore.When you can follow how this directive was put together it certainly fits what Mark Twain said about viewing the making of law and the making of sausages.:eek: But whether Junkner or whomever came over and listned to some Gollum like creature hiss "Gunnses,bad gunsses my preciouss Yess.We knowss howss to fixx bad gun lawwss !" over a pint in a cave someplace in Brussles or Dublin,I'd have my doubts.:P

Underistimating the back lash and the non organisation of the firearms lobby of countless millions was their undoing.You heard yourself what Marian Harkin MEP said to us about the non stop emails and letters on the topic in her office and letters from all over the EU.So in that it certainly was Irish alright. We are the same here,a serious enough threat comes up we unite and fight it[more or less] and then get back to throwing wobblers at each other.

I am not surprised about the Poles and the others not wanting Muslims in their countries,and its nothing to do with "rascism" .People have forgotten that in the last 1000 years the Muslim Ottoman empire of Turkey invaded those countries as well and left its foot print on their culture too.So much so that they were at the gates of Vienna in 1523 and various times invaded ,looted and conqured those areas until 1629 when they were finally driven out of Europe by an allied force of Poland ,Austria and German states of Saxony and Bavaria...We aren't the only country in Europe with grudges.;) And after 50 years of living under the benevelont boot of Soviet Russia,do you think they are going to be too put out by a swaking EX STASI girl has to say for herself?? Not to mind Poles after having the Germans visit in 1939 to 1945...Arent to particullary happy about Germans giving them orders.

Dead right about Vladimir.He is stting in the Kremlin with his feet up with a big bowl of pop corn or borsht watching the "Western world reality show"and us self destructing thru our own idiocy.

gunny123

Merkel and grab-a-granny macron were on the news tonight. He is very pro-more europe and seemed to be kissing Merkels arse. With them in charge of europe with the likes of junker and verhofstadt, what chance have we got ? There is no critical voice from our lot in the dail. Yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir.

Grizzly 45

Whatever cranks your crank.I'd say Angela is safe enough..She is a bit too young for his taste.No wonder he is kissing her ass.France surrenderd again to Germany for the 3rd time in 150 years,without a shot being fired,and I doubt very much that that the Brits and Yanks will be bailing them out this time.Dont need Blitz kreig and Willi Guderian to conquer nations anymore.A Jobsworthy in his 3 piece and laptop is worth an army group when he buggers up your economy and credit ratings.As we found out here.:(
You know that our covert EU policy has been for years?Let the grown ups make all the hard decisions in Brussels and we'll continue with national parish pump politics in the Dail.
Connolly was right,we changed the crown for the harp and then for the starred slave collar of Europe.

yubabill1

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

But whether Junkner or whomever came over and listned to some Gollum like creature hiss "Gunnses,bad gunsses my preciouss Yess.We knowss howss to fixx bad gun lawwss !" over a pint in a cave someplace in Brussles or Dublin,I'd have my doubts.:P



Dead right about Vladimir.He is stting in the Kremlin with his feet up with a big bowl of pop corn or borsht watching the "Western world reality show"and us self destructing thru our own idiocy.

JP didn't have to come here for advice, he had Frances whispering in his ear at the Council of Ministers and she had Noirin (and European colleagues) telling her what they wanted - nothing only 22's and shotguns.

And Putin? He knows the EU was the brainchild of a Communist - Altiero Spinelli (the EU HQ is even named after him) - and is now run by Angela, who spent most of her life as a Communist in East Germany.

And Macron? He ran on promising to reform the EU, but his idea of reform is /was very different to yours or mine.

Don't get me started about our lot, when was the last time you heard "in the national interest"? Maybe on Hall's Pictorial Weekly?

Update;

Just been over to FU site - great comment on Katja Triebel's article on the Sweden truck attack (I have a daughter the same age as the girl chopped in half under that lorry) - guy calls himself Lt Col somebody or other;

"It is hugely frustrating that, instead of having ‘an intelligent conversation’, political correctness, especially within the media and politics, steadily erodes popular confidence in the legitimate organs of government and the State at a time when national security services and police forces need the help and support of the population the most. The European Firearms Directive serves as an excellent example of how the European Commission, and its other institutions, far from addressing these issues, seeks to deny, distort and deceive, targeting those it can (the law-abiding) rather than those it should (terrorists, criminals and malcontents); if all you do is penalize good behavior, bad behavior becomes the norm. It is hardly surprising, therefore, to see a steady rise in those across Europe who are questioning the European Union’s existence, purpose and vast cost …as with all the great ’empires’ in history, they are usually the cause of their own demise."

gunny123

Take your blood pressure pills before watching this scutter from our friends "The council of the eu".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmEUDHFkC9w

Grizzly 45

Talk about propaganda that would have made Gobbels proud!Has all the elements of the little lies prepping the dumb on this subject for the big lie.

extremetaz

oh for the love of ...!

'blank firing ... weapons'

what you going to do, throw them at someone???
Utter bolloxology

Also had this pointed out to be just this morning:

http://www.datagraver.com/case/people-killed-by-terrorism-per-year-in-western-europe-1970-2015

Proof positive that intent is the most important factor, not access to firearms.

Uinseann_16

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Talk about propaganda that would have made Gobbels proud!Has all the elements of the little lies prepping the dumb on this subject for the big lie.

a question for you and everyone else here does this mean no more 16 year olds are able to licence firearms?
are they upping the age to 18 or am i reading it wrong (got it from the wiki page on the firearms directive so it mightn't be right)



"are at least 18 years of age, except in relation to the acquisition, other than through purchase, and possession of firearms for hunting and target shooting, provided that in that case persons of less than 18 years of age have parental permission, or are under parental guidance or the guidance of an adult with a valid firearms or hunting licence, or are within a licensed or otherwise approved training centre, and the parent, or an adult with a valid firearms or hunting licence, assumes responsibility for proper storage pursuant to Article 5a and[20]"

Grizzly 45

Nope you read it "correctomundo"as The Fonz used to say. Again,standardising or harmonising EU law over national law.:(
BUT the simple truth is majority of EU shooters would say ...YAWN! so what??More EU BS. Simply because this is prety standard stuff already in most EU countries in national firearms laws,and it's just the EU clowns or whoever made that propaganda piece, trying to look good on getting tough on terrorism and esay accesibility of firearms.:D:D:D:D

Uinseann_16

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Nope you read it "correctomundo"as The Fonz used to say. Again,standardising or harmonising EU law over national law.:(
BUT the simple truth is majority of EU shooters would say ...YAWN! so what??More EU BS. Simply because this is prety standard stuff already in most EU countries in national firearms laws,and it's just the EU clowns or whoever made that propaganda piece, trying to look good on getting tough on terrorism and esay accesibility of firearms.:D:D:D:D

so will i lose my .22 or just not be able to licence any more firearms ive already sent off my deer licence and wil be buying a .308 has that gone down sh!ts creek or should i apply asap(im 16)
how long do countries have to impose these new laws through legislation?

meathstevie

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

KNEW this was going to happen in Ireland sooner or later..Utter confusion on the EU directive.
BULL****E from the dealer and dept.
There is NO ban on semi auto rifles under the new EU legislation.What there is is a Magazine ban on over ten shots for long arms or 20 shots for short arms. However there is no logical explanation what we are supposed to do with now millions of mags out there?Do we hold onto them,convert them?Hand them into AGS?Who is paying compensation for them?What happens with ones that can take multiple calibers?IE 50 cal SOCOM in a .223 mag. A 20 rounder in .223 will hold TEN SOCOM rounds,legal or not? IOW this is an uttter fk up that applies to ALL actions ,not just semi autos.

HOWEVER you can get an exemption to the mag ban of Cat A prohibited from your government for sports shooting,security purposes and if your country has a national defence force using civillian reservists..

What the dept MIGHT have got confused is that former military assault rifles in government stock cannot be converted anymore to semi auto only fire and sold to the public. As the Mi carbine was never full auto in the first place,it is irrevelant.
If you want to see the whole shebang.Go look at the thread "More crap on the way" or go to Firearms united.com for the whole story.

Download this link and print this off and give it to your pal to take to his dealer and to forward it to Mr/Mrs DOJ Jobsworthy .This is the directive as it stands under EU law!

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?type=AMD&reference=A8-2016-0251&format=PDF&language=en&secondRef=107-107&utm_source=gunsweek&utm_medium=textlink&utm_campaign=Read+the+text+of+the+revised+Firearms+Directive+approved+by+the+EU+Parliament&utm_content=674a&utm_term=Law+Regulations

Also here is a EU article on it in short https://www.gunsweek.com/en/current/news/eu-gun-ban-approved-without-amendments
in short

There will be no total ban and mass confiscation of “Category B7” modern sporting firearms, both working and deactivated

There will be no total ban and mass confiscation of firearms that can accept magazines over 10 rounds in capacity

There will be no total ban and mass confiscation or mandatory deactivation of historical and modern automatic firearms kept by museums or by private collectors for cultural and research purposes

There will be no total ban of all realistic imitations of automatic firearms

There will be no mandatory medical and psychological tests for gun owners

Excellent clarification Grizzly. The EU does not impose a blanket prohibition at all as explained above. It even has directives on the books that specifically allow semi-automatic center fire long arms unable to contain more than three rounds for hunting purposes, rifles as well as shotguns.

meathstevie

Uinseann_16 wrote: »

a question for you and everyone else here does this mean no more 16 year olds are able to licence firearms?
are they upping the age to 18 or am i reading it wrong (got it from the wiki page on the firearms directive so it mightn't be right)




"are at least 18 years of age, except in relation to the acquisition, other than through purchase, and possession of firearms for hunting and target shooting, provided that in that case persons of less than 18 years of age have parental permission, or are under parental guidance or the guidance of an adult with a valid firearms or hunting licence, or are within a licensed or otherwise approved training centre, and the parent, or an adult with a valid firearms or hunting licence, assumes responsibility for proper storage pursuant to Article 5a and[20]"

I would read that as follows; under 18 in the eyes of the law means not an adult as in not a competent person to enter a binding contract. A 16 year old can for example not get a mortgage on a house for this reason.

Since the purchase of a firearm can be somewhat sensitive it is organised in such a way that parental ( or guardian ) consent is required by means of giving you lawful access to a firearm and assisting you with the responsibilities that come with firearm possession.

Grizzly 45

Uinseann_16 wrote: »

so will i lose my .22 or just not be able to licence any more firearms ive already sent off my deer licence and wil be buying a .308 has that gone down sh!ts creek or should i apply asap(im 16)
how long do countries have to impose these new laws through legislation?

I'll give you a "depends" answer on this.Depends on whether the Irish govts decide to rush into changing our firearms laws anytime soon.Depends on whether the challange by various EU countries to this is successful or not,and then in five years time whether it is considerd a success or not and is open to review again on EU level.
My advice is Keep calm and carry on shooting whatever you have .

At the moment all we have is the OP's story of AFAICS misinformation thru mis information in the DOJ and a local case of ... mis guidance of info which I'll try and chase up....
Actually WHY AM I DOING THIS?? Aren't we supposed to have national organisations of shooters in Ireland to do this kind of stuff??Who I'm sure read in here as well??Who meet once every odd time with DOJ,but surely have a hotline or contact who could give us some clarification??

Grizzly 45

Response today from the DOJ on this
From what I get from this is email is;

Nope,you can as a dealer or individual import semi autos alright with the right conditions and paperwork,but you mightn't get liscensed for them because of the ministers statement RE temp caps and disallowing new liscenses post Sept 2015 and setting up the Firearms Assesment And Appeals Authorithy[FAAAA].But we havent any legislation to do this,yet!

And we still have no clue whether or how this EU ban will affect Irish legislation,as the AG hasn't even looked at it yet.Depite the deadline being passed three monthsago.

IOW We the dept are just as in the dark on this as everyone else out there.:)

yubabill1

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Response today from the DOJ on this
From what I get from this is email is;

Nope,you can as a dealer or individual import semi autos alright with the right conditions and paperwork,but you mightn't get liscensed for them because of the ministers statement RE temp caps and disallowing new liscenses post Sept 2015 and setting up the Firearms Assesment And Appeals Authorithy[FAAAA].But we havent any legislation to do this,yet!

And we still have no clue whether or how this EU ban will affect Irish legislation,as the AG hasn't even looked at it yet.Depite the deadline being passed three monthsago.

IOW We the dept are just as in the dark on this as everyone else out there.:)

Probably won't move on the directive until Cz etc challenges are dealt with.

And didn't frances do a nice job of hamstringing shooters and AGS with her statement of intent to bring in a ban (which was never her intention).

HappyShooter

So is now a bad time to apply for a license for a centrefire semi auto rifle? I'd hate to spend a fortune on a rifle and then not get to hold onto it.

BattleCorp

I'm just a simple thicko so can somebody explain this situation to me please.

The Minister made a statement in the Dail stating that they intend to ban/put a cap on semi-auto centrefire rifles. They didn't draft any legislation to support doing this. So as it stands, there is absolutely nothing in law banning/placing a cap on those type of firearms, only a bit of a statement made by the Minister. Then how in the name of fcuk can they allow you to have something now but tell you that they are going to take it off you in the future if the law is changed?

Is it not akin to a Minister declaring that they intend to change the age of consent for marriage to 100 at some date in the future and that you are taking a chance if you are getting married under 100 years of age because your marriage might be invalid if the Minister changes the law in the future?

Not very eloquently put but you get my meaning.

BattleCorp

yubabill1 wrote: »

Probably won't move on the directive until Cz etc challenges are dealt with.

And didn't frances do a nice job of hamstringing shooters and AGS with her statement of intent to bring in a ban (which was never her intention).

Can't see the CZ Government backing down.

Grizzly 45

And now Sweden is going to the Swedish supreme court on some legislation that looks suspiciously like the nonsense of the 2008 act in Ireland.Plus the Sweish ballistic expert on the cops side sounds like he went to the same ballistics school as our dear departedand retired friend "Inspector Google.":rolleyes:
Firearms United homepage.
[]Underlining and emphasis mine]
Firearms United is going to Supreme Court – In Sweden!

The Swedish authorities have been very active when it comes to making life hard for citizens practising IPSC-shooting or other dynamic shooting disciplines that require semiautomatic modern sporting rifles. [1][2]

Several Swedish authorities have been running a campaign for quite some time to ban and restrict the ownership of semiautomatic firearms and for example the previous EU Gunban of 2013 [3] was orchestrated and driven by Swedish commissar Cecilia Malmström, supported by shady authorities making up the rules and ”facts” on the fly. Firerams United was originall founded to counter this outrageous unjustified attack on civil liberties.

We have also heard that Swedish authorities have already denied at least three permits for sportshooters on grounds of the EU Firearms directive – which had not been even finished at the time, let alone in effect.

One common practice is also the misuse of tax payers funds by taking things to court – most of the time the sport shooters win the case and get their permits, and case is conveniently forgotten, but when authorities win a case, it comes a precedent which is used by the authorities to deny permits in the future. [1]

When the latest round of firearms directive was discussed, Sweden sent their best experts in banning firearms to offer their ideologically coloured expertise and push for a stricter firearms directive. In other words, their agenda is now pushed over the Swedish borders and we have had enough of this now.

Firearms United is supporting financially the Swedish shooters to take things to supreme court and put an end to this nonsense.

There is a case currently ongoing, which is widely known among the shooters in Sweden. A sport shooter has applied permit for modern semiautomatic sporting rifle for a sport called ”free rifle” which was denied by the authorities because the sport is practiced on club level and does not have authorized international organization behind it. The defendant has won in court already once, and now the case is going to the supreme court.

The stakes are high:
If authorities win, they can dictate which firearms are ok to use and which are not. It is probably end of the IPSC in Sweden as we know it. Actually, if authorities win, they would have a capability to dictate which forms of sport would approved in Sweden, and which are not.

To put it simply, we do not want the future of for example IPSC in Sweden be in the hands of an person who has stated about IPSC “If they want to play war they can take up paintball” and who has stated in court that scopes of high magnification, weapon lights and picatinny rails should be only allowed for police and military use.

If the free citizens win, they will have a powerful precedent on their side.

As usual, the authorities (mis)using tax payer funds so there is no end to their war chest. Swedish shooters have been running a campaign to fund the fight which might cost as much as 20 000 €, and have collected 80% of the sum. Firearms United will provide the missing 2000 € to fill the war chest and support taking the fight back to the authorities.

Why?
a) Swedish sportshooters have been very active in Firearms United.

b) Authorities can not make rules up as they go.

c) Payback. Opportunity for payback for everything since the Firearms Directive update in 2013.

Time to fight back!

United we stand, divided we fall.

[1] https://firearms-united.com/fi/something-rotten-kingdom-sweden-spreading-part-1/

[2] https://firearms-united.com/fi/something-rotten-kingdom-sweden-part-2/

Grizzly 45

BattleCorp wrote: »

I'm just a simple thicko so can somebody explain this situation to me please.

The Minister made a statement in the Dail stating that they intend to ban/put a cap on semi-auto centrefire rifles. They didn't draft any legislation to support doing this. So as it stands, there is absolutely nothing in law banning/placing a cap on those type of firearms, only a bit of a statement made by the Minister. Then how in the name of fcuk can they allow you to have something now but tell you that they are going to take it off you in the future if the law is changed?

Is it not akin to a Minister declaring that they intend to change the age of consent for marriage to 100 at some date in the future and that you are taking a chance if you are getting married under 100 years of age because your marriage might be invalid if the Minister changes the law in the future?

Not very eloquently put but you get my meaning.

" Exactomundo" As The Fonz used to say. It's obviously now in the "firearms things to do" See "Can kicking and hot political potatoe master file" list Same place the file is for sorting out the TCO of 1972 proably,[being used as a door stopper or for propping up the dodgy leg of the ministerial desk:rolleyes:]..

It's a game to see who will blink first now. We push for it,no doubt within a year a Aherne type will be mouthing off in the Dail about the availability of "assault rifles on our streets and owned by gu nuts where they might be stolen" and the next shooting in the Dublin drug gang scene will be used to coat peg new legislation banning new stuff ala the handgun saga. The intresting thing is however,if we push and gain liscenses via the judical route,and the govt pushes for legislation to enforce this ban,we trump it with EUCHR articles 5 and 7...IOW we have a legislative "Mexican standoff." So now in best Trantino tradition who is going to go for it first?:eek:

Walter Mittys Brother

Beat the law they simply change it

Grizzly 45

Except they cant change the constitutional rights of the EU.;)However,it is in the importance list rank around the bottom 500 things of any Irish govt.

yubabill1

sweden is an absolute basket case. A senior police official there is getting lambasted in the neoliberal Swedish media for blaspheming that there are 61 no-go areas there, many of which are at risk of radicalisation. They have let in innumerous "refugees" and the chickens are coming home to roost, but anyone who says this openly is treated as beneath contempt.

And the neoliberal philosophy only extends to things they like, such as sex and drugs, but not alcohol, firearms or tobacco, which are the spawn of Satan. Of course, if x% of the citizens are spaced out on drugs, you can hardly expect them to be responsible y% of the time, so don't let them have guns.....

It's a bit like prison, where the screws know that prisoners are much easier to deal with when they are spaced out of their heads.

The idea of personal responsibility died with government surveillance "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" except that the idea of privacy went out the window with that one - I mean there's a reason we have doors on toilets, for instance.

there's very little point arguing with these people, as they pay a lot of money to specialists to come up with emotive arguments and soundbites (remember John "Zero Tolerance" O'Donoghue, anyone?).

The first and last bastion of common sense is in the court of law (for now).

Grizzly 45

And the funy thing was,Sweden 60 to 75 years ago was an arch conservative,orthodox Lutheran society that would have made holy Catholic 1950's Ireland look like an open tolerant, swinging hedonistic den of vice!:eek:
It was only in the 1960s that Socialism and liberalism of the Swedish model kicked off and has gone full tilt to the opposite extreme.:(

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

gunny123 wrote: »

Take your blood pressure pills before watching this scutter from our friends "The council of the eu".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmEUDHFkC9w

That stance at 0:27, cringe worthy. Why? Like, can't people psychics anymore?

gunny123

yubabill1 wrote: »

sweden is an absolute basket case. A senior police official there is getting lambasted in the neoliberal Swedish media for blaspheming that there are 61 no-go areas there, many of which are at risk of radicalisation. They have let in innumerous "refugees" and the chickens are coming home to roost, but anyone who says this openly is treated as beneath contempt.

And the neoliberal philosophy only extends to things they like, such as sex and drugs, but not alcohol, firearms or tobacco, which are the spawn of Satan. Of course, if x% of the citizens are spaced out on drugs, you can hardly expect them to be responsible y% of the time, so don't let them have guns.....

It's a bit like prison, where the screws know that prisoners are much easier to deal with when they are spaced out of their heads.

The idea of personal responsibility died with government surveillance "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" except that the idea of privacy went out the window with that one - I mean there's a reason we have doors on toilets, for instance.

there's very little point arguing with these people, as they pay a lot of money to specialists to come up with emotive arguments and soundbites (remember John "Zero Tolerance" O'Donoghue, anyone?).

The first and last bastion of common sense is in the court of law (for now).

The problem is we get the likes of George Soros and our own unelected, bilderberger, goldman sacks carpetbagger and FG backer, Peter Sutherland pulling strings in the background of the EU. Its a pet project for them, and if it all goes horribly wrong (which looks likely), they can move to and live in a very expensive gated community in Switzerland complete with armed security 24/7.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVmg37snifI

yubabill1

It's unlikely that Soros or Suds would personally be in town shopping like the 12 year-old girl split in half by the truck in Sweden;

"After Akilov became another militant in Europe to use a truck as a weapon, Prime Minister Stefan Lofven made it clear that "no means no" for those whose asylum bids are rejected. Akilov, whose lawyer said he had admitted to committing the crime, had been in hiding after his asylum request was denied. "

Above from Reuters; http://www.reuters.com/article/us-sweden-immigration-crackdown-idUSKBN19Y0G8

Of course, the Social Democrat/Green coalition governing Sweden see no link between open doors and children squashed in two under a truck, they would rather ban Swedes access to semi auto rifles, in case someone ever/maybe gets killed in the future.

gunny123

But according to their warped logic, the terrorists are not the problem, they are just unfortunate misguided people. The problem is firearms, inanimate objects that are evil. Also i suspect that the sudden and dramatic appearance of parties in Europe like AFD etc and the prospect of vigilantism, is whats really driving this proposed ban.

Sparks

yubabill1 wrote: »

sweden is an absolute basket case. A senior police official there is getting lambasted in the neoliberal Swedish media for blaspheming that there are 61 no-go areas there, many of which are at risk of radicalisation.

You realise that's a Breitbart piece, right? You might as well print it on a swastika for all it's worth. Even Russia Today is leading with it ffs.

Meanwhile, a whole host of swedish residents on twitter have been pointing out that they live in those "no-go areas" and they have less crime than parts of the UK and almost all of the US.

I mean, come on, at least google a fact check.

http://www.snopes.com/sweden-crime-no-go-zone-police/
http://www.snopes.com/crime-sweden-rape-capital-europe/
http://www.snopes.com/crime-sweden-part-ii-refugee-men-overrepresented-swedish-crime/
http://www.factcheck.org/2017/02/trump-exaggerates-swedish-crime/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/feb/20/what-statistics-say-about-immigration-and-sweden/

This story has been going on for a while now as well : https://www.buzzfeed.com/ishmaeldaro/no-go-zone-myth?utm_term=.ymw0Xxm8r#.ka4e2Nq6D

gunny123

Not complete "no-go" zones, that would imply the state had completely lost control of those areas. But there are area's where the police do not regularly go in case they spark an incident. The problem is some of the refugees and migrants want to escape the hellholes they came from, including the culture and religion, but it seems an awful lot more are happy to try turn their new home into Ethopia or Somalia.

Sparks

Oh come off it. That's right up there with the claims of no-go areas in the UK that some of the US loopy brigade were making a few years ago, where Birmingham was running under Sharia Law and the police were afraid to go out on the streets.

The residents living in those areas in sweden say this is not happening, the statistics say it's not happening, the police say it's not happening. The only ones who say it is happening are some gobdahs on the far side of the planet writing nonsense for a racist pile of muck like Breitbart who would probably have trouble picking Sweden out of a map.

Seriously gunny, this is the same crowd who've been cheerleading for Breivic for pete's sakes.

gunny123

I don't pay the slightest attention to Breitbart, never visit it, no interest in it. As for the police saying its not happening, so what ? They are hardly going to hold a press conference and admit to the world they have failed. The Irish police have come out with some beaut's over the years "There is no organised crime in Ireland" being one particularly unfunny one.

Also if everything is sweetness and light in Sweden, why have they suddenly started deporting large amounts of people ?

Sparks

Because they've started refusing asylum claims in large amounts. If you refuse an asylum claim, the claimant gets deported, that's the process. It's not a case of them deciding "well, you've been a citizen here for a while but now we're kicking you out".

(edit: BTW, "large amounts" here means "almost 50%". Ireland refuses asylum to over 90% of claimants. So if refusing claims is linked to no-go areas, then we should have whole counties that are no-go areas. And I don't mean like Cork. That's don't-want-to-go, not no-go :P )

And I'm not sure I'd compare our police to anyone elses. I don't dislike anyone elses enough for that. Well. Maybe the US's, but they're woefully undertrained and shoot everyone.