short term letting

aluminium

Can someone answer, Google does not have the information Im looking for.

Having rented out my house for the last 14 years and dealt with every type of bad tenant imaginable, I am in two minds (when I get my current tenants out - they owe me 4 months rent).
Do I leave the house empty (use it when Im in Dublin) or do short term rental.

As the regulations / system seems to be anti landlord (for the foreseeable future), I was considering short term rental.
Eg., 3-6 months.

Do I need to register with RTB?

Do I require a BER?

If said tenant decides not to move out at end of 6 month period, can I (and 20 mates) just move back in?

Would I have to take a case to the District Court?

Assuming I re-let the property in 7 months, does the 4% rent restriction apply?

Do landlords include utilities in short term rentals?

Does any one have an opinion on short term rentals (under 6 months)?

davindub

aluminium wrote: »

Can someone answer, Google does not have the information Im looking for.

Having rented out my house for the last 14 years and dealt with every type of bad tenant imaginable, I am in two minds (when I get my current tenants out - they owe me 4 months rent).
Do I leave the house empty (use it when Im in Dublin) or do short term rental.

As the regulations / system seems to be anti landlord (for the foreseeable future), I was considering short term rental.
Eg., 3-6 months.

Do I need to register with RTB?

Do I require a BER?

If said tenant decides not to move out at end of 6 month period, can I (and 20 mates) just move back in?

Would I have to take a case to the District Court?

Assuming I re-let the property in 7 months, does the 4% rent restriction apply?

Do landlords include utilities in short term rentals?

Does any one have an opinion on short term rentals (under 6 months)?

There is an exception in the act for holiday rentals, not short term.

If you think it meets that exception or another, it is excluded from RPZ and RTB act, if not, it needs planning permission for change of use.

Probably best to get onto your solicitor.

4ensic15

aluminium wrote: »

Can someone answer, Google does not have the information Im looking for.

Having rented out my house for the last 14 years and dealt with every type of bad tenant imaginable, I am in two minds (when I get my current tenants out - they owe me 4 months rent).
Do I leave the house empty (use it when Im in Dublin) or do short term rental.

aluminium wrote: »

As the regulations / system seems to be anti landlord (for the foreseeable future), I was considering short term rental.
Eg., 3-6 months.

Do I need to register with RTB?

Yes.

aluminium wrote: »

Do I require a BER?

Yes.

aluminium wrote: »

If said tenant decides not to move out at end of 6 month period, can I (and 20 mates) just move back in?

No.

aluminium wrote: »

Would I have to take a case to the District Court?

No. It is the RTB

aluminium wrote: »

Assuming I re-let the property in 7 months, does the 4% rent restriction apply?

Yes

aluminium wrote: »

Do landlords include utilities in short term rentals?

Some do, some don't.

aluminium wrote: »

Does any one have an opinion on short term rentals (under 6 months)?

Yes.

jamesthepeach

Read my previous posts. Same situation as yourself. I sold one and the other one is let via an agent short term through airbnb.

No problems at all. In fact it looks like airbnb is going to make me at least double what the normal let would make even at market rate.

Airbnb isn't the only way to do short term but it sure is handy. Ask an agent what your options are. Above all though my aim was to stay out of regular letting where the RTB control your very expensive at and not you.

aluminium

"Read my previous posts. Same situation as yourself. I sold one and the other one is let via an agent short term through airbnb.

No problems at all. In fact it looks like airbnb is going to make me at least double what the normal let would make even at market rate.

Airbnb isn't the only way to do short term but it sure is handy. Ask an agent what your options are. Above all though my aim was to stay out of regular letting where the RTB control your very expensive at and not you."

Thanks - its as I thought.

Ive just paid off the mortgage so other than a management charge and some basic utilities,
Im thinking of holiday lets, or let my eldest take a room and rent the others on airbnb.

The house was bought along time ago as a "pension". But to have the restrictions of "overholding",
"4% rent cap",

" biased / slow RTB",

"Having to make / pay expensive repairs to boiler (new) electric shower etc., that the tenant broke through abuse" and not be refunded by the tenant.

"RTB fees"

"BER fees"

"33% capital gains if I sell - then no pension",

"8 year write off on any purchases / upgrades",

"half of revenue going in tax"

"worrying WHEN a tenant is going to stop paying rent - "because I heard on the radio that you dont have to""

"neighbour's complaining that the tenants kids are hanging around the garden all day"

"two years to get a case settled with RTB, then the tenant still stays with no rent coming in, only for them to move the day before the sheriff arrives"

"PSA alarm installer to look at the alarm"

"RGI plumber to check the boiler"

"RECI sparks to check emmersion switch"

All of which I could / would do in my own home.
THis is like "talk therapy", Ive just convinced myself what Im going to do.

davindub

jamesthepeach wrote: »

Read my previous posts. Same situation as yourself. I sold one and the other one is let via an agent short term through airbnb.

No problems at all. In fact it looks like airbnb is going to make me at least double what the normal let would make even at market rate.

Airbnb isn't the only way to do short term but it sure is handy. Ask an agent what your options are. Above all though my aim was to stay out of regular letting where the RTB control your very expensive at and not you.

No problems yet....read my first post here. Does it sound like you meet the exemption?

Graham

davindub wrote: »

There is an exception in the act for holiday rentals, not short term.

If you think it meets that exception or another, it is excluded from RPZ and RTB act, if not, it needs planning permission for change of use.

Probably best to get onto your solicitor.

How is being excluded from RPZ/RTB connected to planning permission?

davindub

Graham wrote: »

davindub wrote: »

There is an exception in the act for holiday rentals, not short term.

If you think it meets that exception or another, it is excluded from RPZ and RTB act, if not, it needs planning permission for change of use.

Probably best to get onto your solicitor.

How is being excluded from RPZ/RTB connected to planning permission?

Sorry that read the opposite.... if it is excluded due to holiday accommodation it needs planning permission (change of use)

jamesthepeach

davindub wrote: »

No problems yet....read my first post here. Does it sound like you meet the exemption?

Oh I think I'll be fine.
Far better off than regular letting .... By a long long way.

Pretty sure the op will be too.

davindub

Ah, you haven't been caught yet (or perhaps ever) so its safe for everyone else?

jamesthepeach

davindub wrote: »

Ah, you haven't been caught yet (or perhaps ever) so its safe for everyone else?

What happens when you get caught. Assuming one is doing something to be caught for. Would it be worse than the tenant not paying rent for a couple of years or anything like that?

davindub

jamesthepeach wrote: »

What happens when you get caught. Assuming one is doing something to be caught for. Would it be worse than the tenant not paying rent for a couple of years or anything like that?

Its not an offense, I didn't mean caught as in that sense. But each tenant you will be collecting more rent than what would be held valid in event of a dispute. That would be your exposure for any tenant who wishes to pursue it.

jamesthepeach

davindub wrote: »

Its not an offense, I didn't mean caught as in that sense. But each tenant you will be collecting more rent than what would be held valid in event of a dispute. That would be your exposure for any tenant who wishes to pursue it.

I think you are off on another one now tbh.
Always warning about the boogeyman.
I'll be ok.

windmilllane

I'm doing short term stays from now on. It's more hassle with the changing over of tenants but worth it for the peace of mind. There great comfort knowing if you have a headwrecker in your house that they will be going in x no of weeks!

davindub

jamesthepeach wrote: »

I think you are off on another one now tbh.
Always warning about the boogeyman.
I'll be ok.

Suit yourself.

jamesthepeach

davindub wrote: »

Suit yourself.

Of course.

davindub

davindub wrote: »

Its not an offense, I didn't mean caught as in that sense. But each tenant you will be collecting more rent than what would be held valid in event of a dispute. That would be your exposure for any tenant who wishes to pursue it.

He is using AirBnB, there can be no dispute its completely outside the remit of the RTB. He can be no more pursued by the RTB than a B&B or hotel can.

4ensic15

Johnathan Mealy Lumberjack wrote: »

He is using AirBnB, there can be no dispute its completely outside the remit of the RTB. He can be no more pursued by the RTB than a B&B or hotel can.

It is not clear what he is doing. There seems to be a contract for a period of months with some agent. Until the terms of that contract are known, it can't be definitively said he is outside the remit of the RTB.

4ensic15

4ensic15 wrote: »

It is not clear what he is doing. There seems to be a contract for a period of months with some agent. Until the terms of that contract are known, it can't be definitively said he is outside the remit of the RTB.

My understanding is the agent is managing his airbnb business in the property looking after guests on arrival/leaving, arranging cleaning etc.

4ensic15

Johnathan Mealy Lumberjack wrote: »

My understanding is the agent is managing his airbnb business in the property looking after guests on arrival/leaving, arranging cleaning etc.

The terms of the contract with the agent are not known to anybody but the poster at this point. Until they are, if ever, it can't be said definitively what the situation is. There are all kinds of scenarios being floated here. Most seem to be propagandist.

4ensic15

4ensic15 wrote: »

The terms of the contract with the agent are not known to anybody but the poster at this point. Until they are, if ever, it can't be said definitively what the situation is. There are all kinds of scenarios being floated here. Most seem to be propagandist.

The contract with the agent is irrelevant.

4ensic15

Johnathan Mealy Lumberjack wrote: »

The contract with the agent is irrelevant.

You haven't seen it, don't know what it contains and yet make that statement? In some circumstances the contract could be highly relevant.

davindub

Johnathan Mealy Lumberjack wrote: »

He is using AirBnB, there can be no dispute its completely outside the remit of the RTB. He can be no more pursued by the RTB than a B&B or hotel can.

I dont see any of that posted. Just that the OP is going into short term rental.
I don't see how airbnb is conclusive prove though, its a booking website.

Look, you can summarise where the issues will arise from into 2 outcomes:
1. The tenant wants to take legal action
2. The landlord wants to take legal action

davindub

davindub wrote: »

I dont see any of that posted. Just that the OP is going into short term rental.
I don't see how airbnb is conclusive prove though, its a booking website.

Look, you can summarise where the issues will arise from into 2 outcomes:
1. The tenant wants to take legal action
2. The landlord wants to take legal action

I was referring to the poster you are debating with. He clearly stated his property is let through Airbnb.

Yes it's a booking website for short term (i.e. A few days at a time) rentals. Short term rentals have nothing to do with the RTB, rent controls don't apply etc.

"Longer" short term rentals of less than 6 months done through daft etc would be under the remit of the RTB and would need to be registered etc however the people living there gain no part 4 rights (once they are given notice before they are there for 6 months. It's a more risky way to operate than Airbnb but of course changing tenant every 6 months is less work than possibly a few times a week but rent controls apply etc also.

aluminium

I think I have a couple of options............. before any one is judgemental - remember that the system is skewed against the landlord.
You have to do what you have to do to survive - metaphorically speaking.

As I see it, the homeless don't have a problem, the Government, or rather the Government parties including Fianna Fail have a problem.

Varadkars problem is the rise of Popularism. Martins problem is Sein Fein and its ratings among the disenfranchised.

The private landlord is caught in the middle.

My eldest is doing a masters is Dublin. He commutes every day. To me it makes more sense for me and my wife to "separate". She take the box room and rent out the rest of the house - Monday to Friday and claim the max 14k rent. My eldest (or wife) would stay when needed or when wanted ( which would be once in a blue moon). Clean the house every Sat morning. Keep the bills in the wifes name. There's no mortgage - so no financial pressure.

If I took in students, I could do airbnb for the summer months.

LuckyLloyd

The AirBnB stuff will be addressed in due course, but you can certainly utilise the option in the interim.

jamesthepeach

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The AirBnB stuff will be addressed in due course, but you can certainly utilise the option in the interim.

No it won't.
The only thing making landlords even consider holding on to properties at the moment is that they can do airbnb to get back some sort of control over their very expensive property.
While holding it and letting it through airbnb it is still potentially going back on the rental market should the govt get their act together and treat landlords properly.
The.mi Ute that option is gone all the apartments get sold and then it's free for all.

If you can buy you are quids in and if you can't, well you are homeless when your landlords sells up, because supply will tumble.even more.

Graham

jamesthepeach wrote: »

No it won't.

Any source or are you guessing?

jamesthepeach

Graham wrote: »

Any source or are you guessing?

Well I can't tell the future. Can you?
Call it an educated guess on my part.
That and the fact every landlord I know is planning on going down this route is a dead giveaway. Even reits are going short term only.
Maybe if the govt allowed landlords stuck on low rents to increase them to market rates it might alleviate the exodus a bit, but unless they do something about getting rid of delinquent tenants very quickly, it won't do much at all.

One year from now my guess is that there will be far fewer apartments to rent than now. With landlords leaving the market and sitting tenants having an iron grip on the properties, there will be very little available if you want to move.

4ensic15

jamesthepeach wrote: »

Well I can't tell the future. Can you?
Call it an educated guess on my part.
That and the fact every landlord I know is planning on going down this route is a dead giveaway. Even reits are going short term only.
Maybe if the govt allowed landlords stuck on low rents to increase them to market rates it might alleviate the exodus a bit, but unless they do something about getting rid of delinquent tenants very quickly, it won't do much at all.

One year from now my guess is that there will be far fewer apartments to rent than now. With landlords leaving the market and sitting tenants having an iron grip on the properties, there will be very little available if you want to move.

What about the fact that there are planning applications being processed for 1000's of apartments and there are cash heavy investors getting no interest on deposit who are actively hunting buy to lets. the Celtic tiger amateurs will be replaced by proper investors who won't take to social media moaning about the price of a deep clean.

Graham

jamesthepeach wrote: »

Well I can't tell the future. Can you?

Call it an educated guess on my part.

No, nor do I pretend to be able.

jamesthepeach wrote: »

That and the fact every landlord I know is planning on going down this route is a dead giveaway. Even reits are going short term only.

Odd logic. The actions of landlords probably isn't the best indicator of government/local authority/AirBnB policy or action.

murphaph

4ensic15 wrote: »

What about the fact that there are planning applications being processed for 1000's of apartments and there are cash heavy investors getting no interest on deposit who are actively hunting buy to lets. the Celtic tiger amateurs will be replaced by proper investors who won't take to social media moaning about the price of a deep clean.

Yep and they will only buy apartments in the cities. Maybe only Dublin. If you want to rent a house or even an apartment in s provincial town you will be out of luck when the small local landlords are driven out.

4ensic15

4ensic15 wrote: »

What about the fact that there are planning applications being processed for 1000's of apartments and there are cash heavy investors getting no interest on deposit who are actively hunting buy to lets. the Celtic tiger amateurs will be replaced by proper investors who won't take to social media moaning about the price of a deep clean.

You make it sound like a good thing. Small LLs are far prefereable in almost every way to big corporations owning housing.

davindub

jamesthepeach wrote: »

Well I can't tell the future. Can you?
Call it an educated guess on my part.
That and the fact every landlord I know is planning on going down this route is a dead giveaway. Even reits are going short term only.
Maybe if the govt allowed landlords stuck on low rents to increase them to market rates it might alleviate the exodus a bit, but unless they do something about getting rid of delinquent tenants very quickly, it won't do much at all.

One year from now my guess is that there will be far fewer apartments to rent than now. With landlords leaving the market and sitting tenants having an iron grip on the properties, there will be very little available if you want to move.

This property you are doing airBnB on was subject to a tenancy (you said he was a good tenant) which you gave notice on to move into yourself in January, you are now attempting to let the same property on airBnB breaching the RTB rule & against planning permission, ended up with a short term lease, breaching the RPZ.

Why are you complaining about being able to increase rents legally or not?

Ms Doubtfire1

Interesting discussion. I - out of curiosity - just checked Airbnb Germany berlin - and there is a clause already in there that in pressure centers (and, as per city to be determined) AIRBNB is only allowed with approval of the local council. I can well see that happening in Ireland as well.

https://www.airbnb.de/help/article/854/berlin

jamesthepeach

davindub wrote: »

This property you are doing airBnB on was subject to a tenancy (you said he was a good tenant) which you gave notice on to move into yourself in January, you are now attempting to let the same property on airBnB breaching the RTB rule & against planning permission, ended up with a short term lease, breaching the RPZ.

Why are you complaining about being able to increase rents legally or not?

Your stalking of me.is only half done.
Go back and finish the job properly.
As I said to you before. I'll be fine.

Graham

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

Interesting discussion. I - out of curiosity - just checked Airbnb Germany berlin - and there is a clause already in there that in pressure centers (and, as per city to be determined) AIRBNB is only allowed with approval of the local council. I can well see that happening in Ireland as well.

https://www.airbnb.de/help/article/854/berlin

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see something similar either mandated centrally by government/LAs or introduced voluntarily by AirBnB. As you correctly state, it's happened in other markets.

If such a change does come about, there's going to be a fairly swift bloodbath as hundreds of properties go up for sale or return to the residential rental market all at once.

jamesthepeach

Graham wrote: »

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see something similar either mandated centrally by government/LAs or introduced voluntarily by AirBnB. As you correctly state, it's happened in other markets.

If such a change does come about, there's going to be a fairly swift bloodbath as hundreds of properties go up for sale or return to the residential rental market all at once.

Airbnb is far from the only way to let short term. It is the most well known so when people say they are going short term they just say airbnb.
However it will be a mix of methods.

Ms Doubtfire1

Graham wrote: »

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see something similar either mandated centrally by government/LAs or introduced voluntarily by AirBnB. As you correctly state, it's happened in other markets.

If such a change does come about, there's going to be a fairly swift bloodbath as hundreds of properties go up for sale or return to the residential rental market all at once.

agreed. But, as such, if the supply is(becomes) higher than the demand, prices will drop. So will rents as more people will be buying...until the next best thing pops up.

Graham

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

agreed. But, as such, if the supply is(becomes) higher than the demand, prices will drop. So will rents as more people will be buying...until the next best thing pops up.

My thoughts exactly, I'd expect a very swift re-adjustment and a raft of landlords forced to accept rents significantly below current rates.

aluminium

I'll take students / workers monday to friday. (out friday morning).
Weekend lettings through craigs list, done deal, and a few b and b owners out west who would send some weekend tenants to me.

I or one of the family would keep the boxroom free for when we need it or just to keep an eye on the tenants.

Mortgage is paid up. No more 50% tax.

there will be a little more work involved - but then I wont be losing half of my income to tax.

Back in the day the average worker was paying three quarters of his overtime in tax. So overtime work stopped and the nixer economy kicked in.

the same thing will happen now with landlords.

And Fianna Fail wants a yearly NCT for rented houses?

Graham

Graham wrote: »

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see something similar either mandated centrally by government/LAs or introduced voluntarily by AirBnB. As you correctly state, it's happened in other markets.

If such a change does come about, there's going to be a fairly swift bloodbath as hundreds of properties go up for sale or return to the residential rental market all at once.

Or they just ignore the rule as enforcement will be tiny. Using sites other than airbnb will also be an option.

Graham

Johnathan Mealy Lumberjack wrote: »

Or they just ignore the rule as enforcement will be tiny.

AirBnB have been only too happy to cooperate where it has either been mandated or it looks like it's going to be mandated.

Let's face it, if you're kicked off AirBnB there's no other comparable sized marketplace to turn too other than scrabbling about with small ads while trying to fly under the radar.

Baby01032012

Johnathan Mealy Lumberjack wrote: »

Or they just ignore the rule as enforcement will be tiny. Using sites other than airbnb will also be an option.

I can't link to it however there was a case reported today where north Dublin county council is enforcing a case where a house was being used full time for short term lets without planning permission.

Previously the only case was that apartment in temple bar. I thought house was safe enough as not in a multi unit development no head lease rules and no more than 4 rooms so I thought no planning permission required but I was obviously wrong as the council are enforcing it.

Graham

Baby01032012 wrote: »

I can't link to it however there was a case reported today where north Dublin county council is enforcing a case where a house was being used full time for short term lets without planning permission.

If that's the case I'm thinking of, over-crowding/fire-safety were the underlying drivers of the official action.

Graham

aluminium wrote: »

I'll take students / workers monday to friday. (out friday morning).
Weekend lettings through craigs list, done deal, and a few b and b owners out west who would send some weekend tenants to me.

I or one of the family would keep the boxroom free for when we need it or just to keep an eye on the tenants.

Mortgage is paid up. No more 50% tax.

What makes you think the above wouldn't be taxed?

Murrisk

Graham wrote: »

AirBnB have been only too happy to cooperate where it has either been mandated or it looks like it's going to be mandated.

Let's face it, if you're kicked off AirBnB there's no other comparable sized marketplace to turn too other than scrabbling about with small ads while trying to fly under the radar.

Exactly, if you're trying not to be noticed, that also means less business.

davindub

Baby01032012 wrote: »

I can't link to it however there was a case reported today where north Dublin county council is enforcing a case where a house was being used full time for short term lets without planning permission.

Previously the only case was that apartment in temple bar. I thought house was safe enough as not in a multi unit development no head lease rules and no more than 4 rooms so I thought no planning permission required but I was obviously wrong as the council are enforcing it.

The owner needs to live there as well to be considered residential use.

4ensic15

davindub wrote: »

The owner needs to live there as well to be considered residential use.

The owner does not need to live there for it to residential use. Holiday letting and long term letting are considered different uses. Long term letting and owner occupation are the same planning use.
A B & B of 4 bedrooms is allowed if the owner lives there but a short term self catering arrangement is not a B & B so the exemption would not apply.

aluminium

Graham wrote: »

What makes you think the above wouldn't be taxed?

As stated earlier, my wife and I would "separate" and this house would be her primary home.

As my kids all travel or are in final year of college, they would have permanent use of the box room to come and go as they please. The only time the property would be let out as a complete unit would be during the summer months.

Allowing for expenses any taxes due would of course be paid........

davindub

4ensic15 wrote: »

The owner does not need to live there for it to residential use. Holiday letting and long term letting are considered different uses. Long term letting and owner occupation are the same planning use.
A B & B of 4 bedrooms is allowed if the owner lives there but a short term self catering arrangement is not a B & B so the exemption would not apply.

Thats the exemption the other poster was referring to, she was wondering why it didn't apply to the airBnB property as it had less than 4 bedrooms. The owner needs to be living there as well.