LEO VARADKAR ANNOUNCES ABORTION REF.

Persephone kindness

I did make another thread about this in the Politics forum. But it is highly relevant to Irish women so I thought i would put it here.

YES! He has.

He has stated in the past he is pro life. But has announced the ref on the eighth next year. http://www.newstalk.com/Varadkar-announces-abortion-referendum-for-next-year-

I have a feeling any option we will be offered will only include fetal abnormalities though. But lets be hopeful and perhaps it can include women within the first trimester in general. I worry it might stigmatize those who choose an abortion otherwise over those who require one for health issues.

I realize many here will have different feelings and some will be pro choice and some ardently pro life. That is ok. We are all diff.

I do hope the govt remain neutral.

rainbow kirby

I'd love to hope that it would be for the full Citizens Assembly recommendations, but I fear that they will only give the option to allow it in a limited set of circumstances or that even after a repeal the Oireachtas will be very slow to vote for anything that's workable and benefits women.

Basically, I don't trust this government as far as I could throw them. I especially have very little trust in a gay man who opposed gay marriage until it was politically expedient.

sullivlo

Persephone kindness wrote: »

I did make another thread about this in the Politics forum. But it is highly relevant to Irish women so I thought i would put it here.

YES! He has.

He has stated in the past he is pro life. But has announced the ref on the eighth next year. http://www.newstalk.com/Varadkar-announces-abortion-referendum-for-next-year-

I have a feeling any option we will be offered will only include fetal abnormalities though. But lets be hopeful and perhaps it can include women within the first trimester in general. I worry it might stigmatize those who choose an abortion otherwise over those who require one for health issues.

I realize many here will have different feelings and some will be pro choice and some ardently pro life. That is ok. We are all diff.

I do hope the govt remain neutral.

Hard for the government to remain neutral when the Taoiseach is pro-life.

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/citizens-assembly-abortion-voting-more-nuanced-than-it-first-appeared-1.3062430

I don't think that the referendum will mention abortion. It will just be to repeal the 8th, which gives equal rights to an unborn child. If repealed, the government could/should then legislate for abortion, and the citizens assembly recommendation should be considered.

8th amendment =/= abortion.

The 8th should absolutely be repealed, regardless of your pro/anti choice stance: I am pro-life but I want the 8th repealed as I want rights as a woman.

I hope that our new Taoiseach remembers the way that Ireland legalised marriage equality. It's an issue that doesn't impact the lives of so many people who voted (my Gran voted yes, she'll never marry a woman) but society did the right thing for the LGBT community. It doesn't impact Leo in any way whether the 8th is in existence; but he should do the right thing.

All we can hope for is that society does the same for women.

rainbow kirby

sullivlo wrote: »

All we can hope for is that society does the same for women.

And unfortunately we don't have the greatest track record on that one :mad:

sullivlo

rainbow kirby wrote: »

And unfortunately we don't have the greatest track record on that one :mad:

Uh huh.

Hopefully the youth will come out in force again. They're our only hope. The aged population don't have the best track record in equality for women in society.

RacoonQueen

sullivlo wrote: »

Uh huh.

Hopefully the youth will come out in force again. They're our only hope. The aged population don't have the best track record in equality for women in society.

This will be like discussing the marriage ref with my folks all over again. They both voted no, but neither of them could give me an actual solid reason why they were voting no.
Guess what though, the world has not ended since the ref was passed... :eek:

sullivlo

RacoonQueen wrote: »

This will be like discussing the marriage ref with my folks all over again. They both voted no, but neither of them could give me an actual solid reason why they were voting no.
Guess what though, the world has not ended since the ref was passed... :eek:

It's the same argument all over again.

Don't want a same sex marriage? Don't have one.

Don't want an abortion? Don't have one!!! It's not like they'll be sitting outside the waiting room in Holles Street stopping every 10th person and forcing an abortion onto them.

mahamageehad

I am pro-choice, but I think that every woman in Ireland will benefit from having the 8th repealed. As Sulli said, repealing the 8th doesn't introduce abortion, it just allows that it may at some point in future be legislated for. I wrote a piece on Medium a while ago about it. My two worries about this referendum would be:
- The wording of the referendum. Is it actually a straight repeal or an amendment.
- The extremists on both sides taking an aggressive stance as per the gay marriage referendum. This topic tends to be incredibly emotive with most people having quite strong opinions and has the potential to be incredibly divisive and isolating. To be honest, this referendum will fail or pass based on the pro-campaign. If they can't engage the middle, it'll fail.

sullivlo

mahamageehad wrote: »

I am pro-choice, but I think that every woman in Ireland will benefit from having the 8th repealed. As Sulli said, repealing the 8th doesn't introduce abortion, it just allows that it may at some point in future be legislated for. I wrote a piece on Medium a while ago about it. My two worries about this referendum would be:
- The wording of the referendum. Is it actually a straight repeal or an amendment.
- The extremists on both sides taking an aggressive stance as per the gay marriage referendum. This topic tends to be incredibly emotive with most people having quite strong opinions and has the potential to be incredibly divisive and isolating. To be honest, this referendum will fail or pass based on the pro-campaign. If they can't engage the middle, it'll fail.

I think that is it in a nutshell. The language is so, so important. The pro choice campaign are realising that now though. It's all very factual language. They're referring to "anti-choice" campaigners rather than pro-life. They seem to be very calm and measured.

There are, of course, hysterical people on both sides. But hopefully they're in the minority.

I'll respect anyone's right to vote and I'll respect their opinion and whatnot. But I don't like having pro-life leaflets thrown in my face.

On the ground in Dublin there is definitely a murmur of pro-choice. It's the rural vote that's unsure.

sullivlo

sullivlo wrote: »

Uh huh.

Hopefully the youth will come out in force again. They're our only hope. The aged population don't have the best track record in equality for women in society.

Give or take a few years, no-one under the age of 55 had a say in the 8th Amendment. I would be very surprised if there wasn't a completely different outcome the next time around.

eviltwin

Leo is pro life but he's also a doctor and I would hope that would allow him to see beyond his own views and to what is best medically for the women of Ireland. I would hope a doctor would see the importance of allowing fellow medical professionals to care for women according to best practice and how in cases of FFA, rape and underage pregnancy that access to abortion should be part of any modern maternity system.

Persephone kindness

The solution is not to create further moral and legal confusion but rather to try to come together to find a consensus, and in doing so we must first replace our old convictions with new compassion.

This was a speech he gave 2 yrs ago.

http://www.thejournal.ie/abortion-referendum-ireland-2-1839251-Dec2014/

Eeden

Simply put, the whole issue needs to be removed from the constitution. The constitution is not the place for it.

LegacyUser

eviltwin wrote: »

Leo is pro life but he's also a doctor

A doctor in qualifications yes but he spent little time actually working in the trenches so to speak. He qualified at a GP on 2010 but he was already TD from 2007. His focus has been politics. I've two cousins but newly qualified as GPs who don't feel comfortable with the idea of abortions even though they know medically they are necessary at times. My mum is a GP but one with 40 years experience. She would tell you in her younger days she would have been pro-life but due to her many years of experience seeing the impact Ireland's laws have on her patients she would vote to legalize abortion in a heartbeat regardless of her personal views.

That will be what will convince people to vote in favor of repealing the 8th, personal connection with the issue. Its a tough ask but those who've been directly effected will need to speak to their family and friends and make them see the impact our backwards laws have on people.