Chin ups - is there any hope?

SozBbz

I go to a small group training session a few times a week and our trainer mixes it up every now and again, so we just started a new cycle of exercises which we'll be doing over the next few weeks.

So first up is chin ups. I cannot do chin ups. I'm a woman in my early thirties, and have only just started training properly in the last 6 months, and while I've definitely improved and gotten stronger, I cannot imagine myself ever being able to do chinups.

So he started me with "negative" chin ups, but I was mostly just dropping like a stone, I wasnt able to lower myself with any real control. I feel its a combination of lack up upper body strength plus just being too heavy. I've lost about 25lbs since the start of the year and I'd love to bring that number to 40lbs, but even then I'm never going to be a slip of a thing (although I'd be in great shape in my own eyes!)

My questions is, is there any hope for me? Would another 15lbs make enough difference for me to be able to hold myself? Or are chinups out of reach of most women?

Edit; just to add, my arms feel so weird today (expected) and I feel like I can see my veins through my skin more than usual - this is also related to last night I presume?

bladespin

Yes, there's hope, you'd be amazed how fast the body responds to being asked, keep doing the negs, make sure you're 'trying' to slow the descent, pretty soon you'll notice that you are controlling the movement, chins are not hugely difficult and are very progressive; keep trying and it'll happen.

Zillah

How heavy are you? There is absolutely no reason you won't eventually be able to do chin ups, anyone can, it's just a question of how long between now and then.

freemenfitness

Yes I have taught a number of women to get strict dead hang pull ups and beyond it is slightly more difficult as a female to get them but they are well within reach. For any bodyweight skill being smaller and lighter, of course, makes it easier but I also know huge people who can do very impressive things.

Have a look at the article below I use these and they are a huge help to gaining the initial strength you can also try inverted rows. But I can't stress how important the pulling prep part is as most people struggle with the bottom so perfecting that will help hugely. Negatives are superb but building the control to do them slowly will also help hugely.

https://gmb.io/pull-ups/

Finally and this is, of course, a personal thing but try to get a body you are happy with try not to worry about numbers on a scale. As you get stronger you may even gain weight as you build some muscle try instead to focus on your bodies ability to do things and even composition (how it looks) this as I say is a personal thing so its down to your own preferences I hope this helps you.

SozBbz

Zillah wrote: »

How heavy are you? There is absolutely no reason you won't eventually be able to do chin ups, anyone can, it's just a question of how long between now and then.

I am 15lbs over what the highest I should be according to our good friend the BMI chart

Now I'm not overly wedded to the idea of BMI which is why I'm only aiming for the upper limit of that weight wise. I've definitely gotten stronger over the past 6 months and I can feel muscles in my legs and arms that were not there previously. I can now do proper push ups (only a handful, mind!) but before I could only do box pushups and felt pretty feeble.

I just feel like my body is not designed to be light anyway, I've never been slight/waify - I feel the best I can hope for is strong and lean, but I think I'll always be on the heavier side - which is just why this one particular exercise seems (mentally at least) beyond me.

Zillah

What number does a weighing scales display when you stand on it?

SozBbz

Zillah wrote: »

What number does a weighing scales display when you stand on it?

Can you not tell when someone doesnt want to give out all their details online ? :cool:

I used to drop like a stone as well and got a pull up bar at home and increased it to a flex hang for a good while
I think i made it as far as an assisted pull up but I'd have to build it up again if i tried again now.

If you're doing it a few times a week you'll definitely get there. Don't get too discouraged, keep doing reps and reps of dropping like a stone and you'll see

Zillah

You're talking about chin ups, which is taking close to 50% of your body weight on each arm and lifting it through a full motion. Your total body weight is going to be the biggest factor when considering if you're going to be able to do them or not. But regardless, whether you'll mention the exact number or not, realistically you're going to have to lose weight before you'll be able to do a proper one. You've nothing to lose by doing negatives, but it's not feasible for an overweight woman to gain enough muscle in her arms to do chin ups imo.

You also shouldn't believe something like "I feel the best I can hope for is strong and lean, but I think I'll always be on the heavier side - which is just why this one particular exercise seems (mentally at least) beyond me."

You can be any weight you want to be by controlling diet. Waify people are pretty bad at bodyweight exercises too. Strong and lean is exactly what you need for chin ups.

Zillah

Zillah wrote: »

You've nothing to lose by doing negatives, but it's not feasible for an overweight woman to gain enough muscle in her arms to do chin ups

Listen here u lil

Zillah

Am I wrong? Lifting a whole person is really hard. At least an overweight man gets the testosterone advantage and could build his arms up enough over time, but even then he'd be much more successful getting his body weight down as well.

(I was also replying to OP, I've no idea what you weigh bluewolf )

Vegeta

Zillah wrote: »

You've nothing to lose by doing negatives, but it's not feasible for an overweight woman to gain enough muscle in her arms to do chin ups imo.

I'm not sure about that dude, there's one or two women in the gym I go to who are probably ~15lbs on the softer side (I am not judging anyone here before I am accused of anything, their strength and dedication is very impressive/inspiring) and they can belt out quite a few strict form chins.

Zillah

Zillah wrote: »

Am I wrong? Lifting a whole person is really hard. At least an overweight man gets the testosterone advantage and could build his arms up enough over time, but even then he'd be much more successful getting his body weight down as well.

(I was also replying to OP, I've no idea what you weigh bluewolf )

Is it very hard? Yeah
Is it outright not feasible? Definitely wrong there imo
Yeah it'll help a ton to lose weight but it's possible with a lot of time and effort

SozBbz

Zillah wrote: »

You're talking about chin ups, which is taking close to 50% of your body weight on each arm and lifting it through a full motion. Your total body weight is going to be the biggest factor when considering if you're going to be able to do them or not. But regardless, whether you'll mention the exact number or not, realistically you're going to have to lose weight before you'll be able to do a proper one. You've nothing to lose by doing negatives, but it's not feasible for an overweight woman to gain enough muscle in her arms to do chin ups imo.

You also shouldn't believe something like "I feel the best I can hope for is strong and lean, but I think I'll always be on the heavier side - which is just why this one particular exercise seems (mentally at least) beyond me."

You can be any weight you want to be by controlling diet. Waify people are pretty bad at bodyweight exercises too. Strong and lean is exactly what you need for chin ups.

I am working on my diet, but its going to take time for the weight to come off. I eat really well now, and the weight is coming off but its slow going. I do get that it would be easier if I wasnt carrying weight but sure I am where I am, all I can do is keep working on it.

I guess what I really mean is that I've never been what you could describe as "sporty". I'm going against all my natural instincts (which are to be a couch potato) and feel 100% the better for it.

Chin ups are just a big reach for me right now, but I'm not going to stop going to my trainer so I'll keep at it. I will lose the 15lbs, maybe more, I'll see how I feel when I get to that target. I've probably just still got a few weeks of dropping like a stone ahead of me as I try to build up some grip strength.

cactusgal

Hi OP, I'm about 10-15 pounds overweight (40 yo woman) and I can now do chin-ups/pull-ups. It took me about a year at Crossfit to get there.

I did ring rows for a long time, then pull ups with an elastic band for extra support. Then pull-ups with a reverse hold (palms facing inside).

Now I can do pull-ups with my palms facing out, but only if I'm standing on a box (I'm short, 5 foot 3, and the bar is high) and I have to jump up to get my chin over the bar. I'm able to lower myself down very slowly in the negative. The next step is doing a strict pull up, ie, pulling myself up with just my upper body strength instead of jumping. I'll get there!

So yes, it can be done, but it takes a lot of time, practice, and progression stages.

SozBbz

cactusgal wrote: »

Hi OP, I'm about 10-15 pounds overweight (40 yo woman) and I can now do chin-ups/pull-ups. It took me about a year at Crossfit to get there.

I did ring rows for a long time, then pull ups with an elastic band for extra support. Then pull-ups with a reverse hold (palms facing inside).

Now I can do pull-ups with my palms facing out, but only if I'm standing on a box (I'm short, 5 foot 3, and the bar is high) and I have to jump up to get my chin over the bar. I'm able to lower myself down very slowly in the negative. The next step is doing a strict pull up, ie, pulling myself up with just my upper body strength instead of jumping. I'll get there!

So yes, it can be done, but it takes a lot of time, practice, and progression stages.

Thanks Catsugal, thats actually very inspiring. My aim is to actually lose the weight but hopefully I'll be able to make progress along the way.

Also, well done, sounds like you made a commitment and are now seeing the rewards! I'm glad I started this thread and I'll keep on truckin!

Zillah

You should also consider the counter-weighted pull up machine. It gives you moving pads to rest your knees on while you do the chin up. It takes most of the weight and you take the rest. As you get better at it you can decrease the counter weight.

SozBbz

Zillah wrote: »

You should also consider the counter-weighted pull up machine. It gives you moving pads to rest your knees on while you do the chin up. It takes most of the weight and you take the rest. As you get better at it you can decrease the counter weight.

I don't know if we have one in the gym I'm at but I'll ask. Its only a small gym, mostly just PT's training clients.

I've tried banded pullups once before (previous trainer) and I still couldnt do it. He basically ended up mostly pushing me up and down :pac::pac::pac:

Zillah

It looks like this.
http://i.imgur.com/qRoR4Al.jpg

I would prefer that to having a person try and help, because it will give a nice consistent assist, and you can decrease the counterweight by discrete increments over time.

SozBbz

Zillah wrote: »

It looks like this.
http://i.imgur.com/qRoR4Al.jpg

I would prefer that to having a person try and help, because it will give a nice consistent assist, and you can decrease the counterweight by discrete increments over time.

Ha, I would prefer it too, largely because its less weird :P

Alf Veedersane

SozBbz wrote: »

I don't know if we have one in the gym I'm at but I'll ask. Its only a small gym, mostly just PT's training clients.

I've tried banded pullups once before (previous trainer) and I still couldnt do it. He basically ended up mostly pushing me up and down :pac::pac::pac:

It was probably the wrong band. What colour was it, do you remember?

Also, here's a progression for pull ups/chin ups that was posted here some time back.

.......

This post has been deleted.

SozBbz

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

It was probably the wrong band. What colour was it, do you remember?

Also, here's a progression for pull ups/chin ups that was posted here some time back.

Em, no, it was ages ago and I'm not going to him anymore (not because of that! just moved jobs so also moved gyms)

Alf Veedersane

SozBbz wrote: »

Em, no, it was ages ago and I'm not going to him anymore (not because of that! just moved jobs so also moved gyms)

Different bands give differing levels of resistance/support.

So if he used a thin red band, for example, it would offer very little assistance for pull ups.

SozBbz

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Different bands give differing levels of resistance/support.

So if he used a thin red band, for example, it would offer very little assistance for pull ups.

Ah yeah, I know, I think it was actually two (I am a weakling!) black bands, or maybe one black and one purple....couldnt swear to it tho. Defo wasnt one of the little red ones, they'd hardly help at all!

bladespin

If it's any help (I hope it is), I started a journey lats August to get myself back in shape, I'd let myself go over the years to the point where I was more than 20 lbs over. I wanted it all, fitness, shape etc. I started a regime that involved pullups (the unholy mother of all chin-ups), I tried but couldn't manage a single one (I'm a dud, can you imagine the shame!), I ended up starting on negs and then bands, I lost weight along the way and can now quite happily knock out 4 sets of 11 without assistance, I want more and love them just because I struggled so badly in the beginning. OP it can be done and will get a lot easier as you drop weight, hang in there (sorry couldn't resist).

Zillah

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Yes they work in reverse - the weight you choose is a counter weight so the heavier you pick the more it helps.

So try a pull up at bodyweight, if that's too heavy then try an assisted pull up with something small, like 5kg. Keep adding weight until you're able to do a set of, say, five or six. Decrease the assistance weight over time until you can do bodyweight.

LincolnHawk

Build up your strength on a lat pull down machine if you have access to one. Start as light as you need.
It's not an exact match for chins but close enough with a supinated grip

LuckyLloyd

I'm a big fat reasonably strong man who used to be a monstrously whale like and horrendously weak man. When I started training a few years ago, the idea of being able to do an unassisted chin up seemed laughable. A few years later, it happened and I can now bang out a few unassisted. The path is longer for some than others but:

- losing weight
- training consistently
- doing the prescribed progressions as best you can
- patience

WILL get you there. And, take it from me, when you get there it will have been worth the journey.

Congrats on the progress you have already made and best of luck with your training.

snapper1234

SozBbz wrote: »

I go to a small group training session a few times a week and our trainer mixes it up every now and again, so we just started a new cycle of exercises which we'll be doing over the next few weeks.

So first up is chin ups. I cannot do chin ups. I'm a woman in my early thirties, and have only just started training properly in the last 6 months, and while I've definitely improved and gotten stronger, I cannot imagine myself ever being able to do chinups.

So he started me with "negative" chin ups, but I was mostly just dropping like a stone, I wasnt able to lower myself with any real control. I feel its a combination of lack up upper body strength plus just being too heavy. I've lost about 25lbs since the start of the year and I'd love to bring that number to 40lbs, but even then I'm never going to be a slip of a thing (although I'd be in great shape in my own eyes!)

My questions is, is there any hope for me? Would another 15lbs make enough difference for me to be able to hold myself? Or are chinups out of reach of most women?

Edit; just to add, my arms feel so weird today (expected) and I feel like I can see my veins through my skin more than usual - this is also related to last night I presume?

Keep trying and trying I remember being at this stage and thought I'd never do a chin up in my life but what I did was try to pull up and hold myself and it took me months to get this but once I got it a pull up felt like I was lifting butter. Keep doing what you're doing and you will get there no bother at all great work.

andy1981

Hi OP, Im over 14 stone and a year ago I could do about 2 chin ups. I was determined to do wide grip pull ups. Aim was for 10. Every time I go to the gym I start with pull ups. Now I can do 15 wide grip. Long story short, aim for 1, then 2 then 3. Keep at it. You will get there with practise.
A tip (may be corrected on this) I got from a PT was that grip strength is important, Even hanging from the bar for as long as possible will improve grip strength and also improve chin ups.
Keep at it

cloudatlas

Good article here that I was looking at the other day: Some suggested accessory exercises included that look good. https://www.t-nation.com/training/programs-for-the-pull-up-deficient

rubadub

Chinups are just naturally harder for women as said. In the US Marines females were not expected to even do chinups/pullups, just maintain a "flexed arm hang" for 15 seconds.

Holding like this


Then I was reading they introduced a 3 chinup minimum for female marines and over 50% could not do it so I think they had to either change the requirements or go back to the flexed arm thing or maybe replace it with pushups.

freemenfitness

Take many of those military fitness tests with a pinch of salt as they are now taking into account office clerks etc who will never be front line troops so fitness is not a major focus.

Also if you are struggling to do pull ups avoid / skip the kip it is a pretty advanced movement within gymnastics that is used by many to make pull ups easier but can lead to serious joint issues.

Tar.Aldarion

Definitely just use bands and use them to do your negatives and you will improve. Do a few sets each day.

I did the same when I wanted to do pullups and I could do them a lot faster than I thought. I bought a cheap thing off amazon to do them at home/get more practice and it worked great.

jive

Lose weight and practice negatives, eventually those negatives will turn into positives. It's not sexy and it's consistent work but that's how you'll get there

Gamebred

Anyone got a link to some bands for pull ups?

tomfoolery60

Gamebred wrote: »

Anyone got a link to some bands for pull ups?

https://www.d8fitness.com/product/power-bands-x-5-special-offer-41″1-04m-each/

SteelyDanJalapeno

72 euro for bands!

Mellor

TiltedBrain wrote: »

72 euro for bands!

Looks like there's 10 in that pack.

Tar.Aldarion

One strong one would be good enough and then you would be fine on your own, something like

https://www.amazon.co.uk/E-PRANCE-Resistance-Premium-Exercise-Fitness/dp/B00JJI3Y84/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?s=sports&ie=UTF8&qid=1498000913&sr=1-1-fkmr0&keywords=E-PRANCE%C2%AE+Premium+Latex+Pull+Up+Resistance+Band+%28Loop+Band+Resistance+Level%3A25+to+65+Pounds+of+Resistance%29

Triceratops Ballet

freemenfitness wrote: »

Take many of those military fitness tests with a pinch of salt as they are now taking into account office clerks etc who will never be front line troops so fitness is not a major focus.

Chins/pulls are still much more difficult for women. Even men I know who don't train at all and still pop out 2/3 while I still struggle with negatives.

Among the girls in my gym, even the girls who can do them and can do multiple sets of 5 still say it's the toughest exercise for them. where as new guys walk in and in a couple of weeks are like pull up machines

freemenfitness

@dottie_lottie I said the same earlier in this thread I have heard many people equate the pull up for women is like a muscle up for a male. It is still as you say possible for women to achieve pull ups. There are all sorts of physiological reasons for it which is why for females especially focusing on the initial pulling prep from dead hang should be a major focus which is often totally ignored.

My point was that many of the dropping requirements for military fitness tests have a lot of variables you don't need an office clerk to run 10km with a 20kg pack for example.

snapper1234

freemenfitness wrote: »

Also if you are struggling to do pull ups avoid / skip the kip it is a pretty advanced movement within gymnastics that is used by many to make pull ups easier but can lead to serious joint issues.

well said, stay away from the kip...it'll only bring trouble, and at that you may not be able to even perform a pull up from the kip.