Real rape.

Zedsmeds

I'm just going to say all this as quickly as possible to not set myself off into a depressive meltdown.
I'm autistic and have had severe depression for a very long time now. I was physically, mentally and sexually abused as a child, along with extremely druggy alcoholic parents.
After a bout in a mental hospital when I was 13 I had "sex" with someone who was 27. I was bullied by my mother and sibling for being so frigid and not having kissed someone. I feel that's a contributing factor. It was planned I'd meet them at night and it would happen. I got there and didn't want to do it at all and had an autistic meltdown but it still happened. I can't speak when I get like that, I don't know what the emotion is, like a cross of fear, panic and anxiety but somehow worse. I really didn't want to go through with that.
The person was displeased I didn't "perform" well, and this impacted me a lot. "I didn't do it right so thats why it was horrible and terrifying" so I tried again person was 23. Same happened except there was alcohol and it was in a hotel room and I was too terrified to leave even when it was over. I hid in the bathroom crying and hurting myself while the person slept.
These people gave me fake names and hid their identities from me.
There's a lot that I haven't included but if I go into more detail I won't be able to handle those memories.
Was this my fault?
Was this just statutory rape?
Was it real rape?

Red F Warrior

NONE of this was your fault. Don't you dare think less of yourself as you sound to have had to face things from a young age that people should never have to face. You are so brave and courageous. You should seek medical advice and leave nothing out. Your road to happiness starts now.

Lisha

I'm sorry you have had such a rotten time. You deserve better.
No one can give you a definitive answer from a single post. All we can do is recommend you talk to your gp and seek a counselor.

Surreptitious

You were only a child at 13. That is so awful, I've no doubt they took massive advantage of you and then to comment afterwards? They hid their identity because they would have been prosecuted otherwise. You were a minor and had just been in hospital. I really hope you can come to terms with all these horrible memories even by talking to someone and getting the help you deserve. I wish you all the best.

stove

Hi OP,

It would be helpful to contact the National Counselling Service. Check on line to see if they have a service close to where you live. It's free of charge and they have experience of deaoling with similar experiences to the trauma you have gone through. Well done

stove

Well done on seeking help now is what I am saying above

Big Bag of Chips

You were massively let down by the adults in your life. You were a child. That is in no way your fault. As parents, and adults it is our job to guide and protect our children. To help them through life and to help them to grow and mature. Having autism you would need that help and guidance and support even more than other children your she. And other children your age need 100% guidance and love and support.

I have an almost 12 year old, and I shudder to imagine them having to deal with something like that at such a young age.

You were raped. And it would seem your mother was complicit in it.

Contact the Rape Crisis Centre to speak to someone. You will be listened to. You will be believed. And you won't be pushed to do anything that you don't want to do.

Zedsmeds

But what would counseling do? Is the national counselling service not just for people who suffered abuse through the state?
I don't think the rape crisis center would deal with this either.
My problem is what happened, was it statutory rape? Was it real rape?
There is clearly a big difference between the two.

mapaca

I'm​ sorry this happened to you OP. You've had a terrible ordeal. The Rape Crisis Centre would absolutely be able to help you, you were 13, a child, under the age of consent so yes, it was rape. And it doesn't matter that it was a long time ago, they will still offer you help and support. 1800 778 888

NeonCookies

Zedsmeds wrote:

But what would counseling do? Is the national counselling service not just for people who suffered abuse through the state? I don't think the rape crisis center would deal with this either. My problem is what happened, was it statutory rape? Was it real rape? There is clearly a big difference between the two.

There is not as much of a difference as you seem to think. I'm going to be quite black and white in my explanation - I very much hope it doesn't upset you.

Statutory rape means having sex with a person under the age of consent. The age of consent means that under that age you are not legally deemed able to consent to sex, so even if you had openly agreed and actively taken part in sex with this 27 year old man it would still have been rape. The only time some people see grey areas with this definition (which is where I think your confusion comes from regarding "real rape") is if, for example, two 15 year olds have sex or something like that - this is not your situation therefore this grey area doesn't apply.

Added to the fact that you were only 13 and he was 27, you mentioned that you had a meltdown when you were there yet it went ahead anyway. I work with people who have such meltdowns and there is no way that they could consent in a meaningful way to any sexual contact in that state.

The fact that you could not consent in both of the ways outlined above means that the Rape Crisis Centre will most definitely deal with this. In the last number of years people are realising that rape is not only carried out by a stranger who attacks a woman on a dark street, it can occur in marriages and relationships or when someone is too drunk to consent. My point is that the Rape Crisis Centre will have heard many different stories and they will be open and sympathetic towards you, they will not judge you and they will help you.

The reason that counselling will help is because it will help you to work through the painful memories that you mentioned in your OP. It will help you to make sense of what happened to you. The Rape Crisis Centre can listen to you and organise counselling.

Zedsmeds

NeonCookies wrote: »

There is not as much of a difference as you seem to think. I'm going to be quite black and white in my explanation - I very much hope it doesn't upset you.

Statutory rape means having sex with a person under the age of consent. The age of consent means that under that age you are not legally deemed able to consent to sex, so even if you had openly agreed and actively taken part in sex with this 27 year old man it would still have been rape. The only time some people see grey areas with this definition (which is where I think your confusion comes from regarding "real rape") is if, for example, two 15 year olds have sex or something like that - this is not your situation therefore this grey area doesn't apply.

Added to the fact that you were only 13 and he was 27, you mentioned that you had a meltdown when you were there yet it went ahead anyway. I work with people who have such meltdowns and there is no way that they could consent in a meaningful way to any sexual contact in that state.

The fact that you could not consent in both of the ways outlined above means that the Rape Crisis Centre will most definitely deal with this. In the last number of years people are realising that rape is not only carried out by a stranger who attacks a woman on a dark street, it can occur in marriages and relationships or when someone is too drunk to consent. My point is that the Rape Crisis Centre will have heard many different stories and they will be open and sympathetic towards you, they will not judge you and they will help you.

The reason that counselling will help is because it will help you to work through the painful memories that you mentioned in your OP. It will help you to make sense of what happened to you. The Rape Crisis Centre can listen to you and organise counselling.

I understand your point but there are a lot of people who would blame me more than those people if it is statutory rape. There is a lot of stigma of calling people sluts or whores in cases like that.
If I was a little older than that would anyone have a problem with it?

Red F Warrior

Zedsmeds wrote:

I understand your point but there are a lot of people who would blame me more than those people if it is statutory rape. There is a lot of stigma of calling people sluts or whores in cases like that. If I was a little older than that would anyone have a problem with it?

You were a vulnerable young child. The other person took advantage of you even if you don't think they did. None of this is your fault, no matter how much ya think it is.

NeonCookies

Zedsmeds wrote:

I understand your point but there are a lot of people who would blame me more than those people if it is statutory rape. There is a lot of stigma of calling people sluts or whores in cases like that. If I was a little older than that would anyone have a problem with it?

People most certainly would have a problem with it no matter your age. If you were 17, 27 or 37 and the exact same thing happened to you, the replies here would be the same - it's not your fault, contact an organisation who can help you such as the Rape Crisis Centre.

Remember, you will experience no stigma from the Rape Crisis Centre or whichever organisation you choose to help you. If you are worried about others opinions, no one needs to know that you are attending counselling.

Anyone who uses such language to describe what happened to you does not deserve to be in your life - I imagine your worries about this is coming from the type of opinions you were exposed to while growing up. Please please believe me when I say that the vast vast majority of people will in no way blame you for what happened to you. Something bad happened to you, that does not mean you are a bad person.

Please take the first step and call 1800 77 8888. It's open 24 hours a day and is free to call.

Zedsmeds

NeonCookies wrote: »

People most certainly would have a problem with it no matter your age. If you were 17, 27 or 37 and the exact same thing happened to you, the replies here would be the same - it's not your fault, contact an organisation who can help you such as the Rape Crisis Centre.

Remember, you will experience no stigma from the Rape Crisis Centre or whichever organisation you choose to help you. If you are worried about others opinions, no one needs to know that you are attending counselling.

Anyone who uses such language to describe what happened to you does not deserve to be in your life - I imagine your worries about this is coming from the type of opinions you were exposed to while growing up. Please please believe me when I say that the vast vast majority of people will in no way blame you for what happened to you. Something bad happened to you, that does not mean you are a bad person.

Please take the first step and call 1800 77 8888. It's open 24 hours a day and is free to call.

But I don't understand if I was older why would there be a problem with it , I'm sorry for being persistent with this. I don't understand how to really think.

I'm not very good at speaking on the phone at all, is it possible to go there and talk?

NeonCookies

Zedsmeds wrote: »

But I don't understand if I was older why would there be a problem with it , I'm sorry for being persistent with this. I don't understand how to really think.

I'm not very good at speaking on the phone at all, is it possible to go there and talk?

That's ok - you don't need to apologise for asking questions!

There would still be a problem with it because in the state that you were in due to your meltdown you were in no fit state to consent.

I'm not sure about a drop in service, maybe others could help with that. But they have an email you could use to organise an appointment. You could email something like "something happened to me and I'd like to talk to someone about it in person because I'm not good on the phone. Could I arrange an appointment?" You don't need to write about what actually happened unless you want to.

The email is counselling@rcc.ie

Big Bag of Chips

It doesn't matter how old you were/are. If you don't want to have sex with someone and they have sex with you anyway, then you have been raped.

But all your talk of "if I was a few years older" is irrelevant. You weren't a few years older. You were 13. There is an age of consent there for a reason. If it's ok to have sex with a 13 year old against her will, then why not a 9 or 10 year old for example. You could still use your argument "if they were a few years older".

It doesn't matter and it doesn't apply to you. You WEREN'T a few years older. You DIDN'T want to have sex. The man knew you were a child. Knew you were reluctant and continued anyway. You were raped.

Your age is irrelevant in whether or not you were raped. Your age IS relevant in making that man (both of them) a paedophile.

Zedsmeds

Emailed the crisis center and they said to ring them, I got the courage to ring and they have a very long waiting list for their counselling but it felt good to talk to even the Lady on the phone.
Should I go to my gp and ask about counselling in the mean time?
One of the people, I think I see them, I know they covered their face but it was bad and I could still see part of their face and one time this person walked past me and tried approaching me and it was the same voice.
I see that person a lot now, I have a mental breakdown every time. I really freak out a lot, I cry and run away and almost get sick. What should I do? Is there a way to deal with that?
Sorry

Rubberchikken

hi op
what you've gone through is terrible and no one, child or adult, should have to deal with something like that.
talking with a trained counsellor would help you and your gp might be able to get an appointment with someone sooner if you spoke with him/her.
good luck

shesty

OP, I think your autism and maybe your background may be part of the reason why you are asking all these questions.I'm not sure how greatly it affects your life but let me assure you....you had sex when you didn't want to, so it was rape.Age doesn't really come into it.If you had to go to court at any stage, then maybe a question would start being asked about statutory or not.But you don't seem to have any intentions of bringing legal proceedings into it, so it doesn't matter about ages of consent.It was rape.

As for stigmas or name calling...there is no counsellor or medical person who is going to think about you like that or say it to you.They are only going to try to help you.You were a child when this happened which is so, so awful.It was not your fault in any way, and it does not reflect on you in any way.

You can certainly ask your GP for help, and tell them you have spoke to the counselling place and they have a long waiting list.Hopefully your GP can direct you to someone else who can help you.

Well done on asking for help, it's often the hardest thing to do.

Zedsmeds

The second time that it happened I was 14 and the age of consent in some countries is 14 so why is that unacceptable? I feel really disgusted at myself that this happened and it happened because of me.
Having sex when you don't want to isn't really rape though its just regret.
I can't go for counselling I would just be taking help away from people who genuinely need it.
But at the same time I don't think I can live with myself knowing how horrible and disgusting a person I am.

Big Bag of Chips

The legal age to drink in some European countries is 16. That doesn't mean a 16 year old here will be served alcohol.

Please, OP, you need to stop making excuses for these men. One of them covered his face. Doesn't that tell you that he knew what he was doing was wrong? If it wasn't wrong, why hide?

Your age is/was irrelevant. You didn't want to have sex. You were forced to. You went along with it because you weren't in a position to stop it. That is 'real rape'.

Keep seeking help and counselling.. you've done so well so far by looking for help. Well done. Someday, I hope you will understand that none of this was your fault.

Zedsmeds

I'm sorry. I don't want to be a nuisance. I don't even feel its good for me to post here as I'm just wasting everyone's time and effort. Sorry.
They hid because it was illegal but even in other countries it wouldn't have been illegal.
But I wasn't forced to do anything. I was just frozen and sometimes moving as told. I could've done something, I could've ran away but I didn't and I should be to blame for that.
And I went there, I arranged that. It is my fault.

Again sorry for being annoying.

pilly

Zedsmeds wrote: »

I'm sorry. I don't want to be a nuisance. I don't even feel its good for me to post here as I'm just wasting everyone's time and effort. Sorry.
They hid because it was illegal but even in other countries it wouldn't have been illegal.
But I wasn't forced to do anything. I was just frozen and sometimes moving as told. I could've done something, I could've ran away but I didn't and I should be to blame for that.
And I went there, I arranged that. It is my fault.

Again sorry for being annoying.

It was not your fault. I know you think it's easy for other people to say that and yes it is but that's because we're outside the situation and can see it clearly.

It's also because we are normal people who would NEVER do this to a child.

Look at it this way, if it happened to a 13 year old you knew today would you tell them that it was their fault? No you wouldn't.

You've said yourself that these people kept their identities hidden, that's because they knew it was wrong.

I'm sorry that you're not getting the help you need but please keep trying, keep ringing the Rape Crisis Centre, once you do get a counsellor they are fantastic. Also ring the Samaritans night or day when you're feeling down, as you said yourself it feels good to talk about it.

The people who work for these organisations are professionals and they will never judge you.

I genuinely wish you the very best of luck. You deserve some happiness and you will get it because you're strong enough to come on here looking for help and also to ring the RCC.

LegacyUser

One of the more damaging and vile aspects of the internet discussion of these things is the construction of the idea that there is "real" rape and some other kind of rape. You were at an age when you were incapable of giving consent, therefore you were subjected to sex without consent, so you were a victim of a rape. What the law or culture might be in other countries is irrelevant.

Another horrible aspect of the discussion of rape is victim blaming, it's so wrong and horrible. Don't do something that wrong and horrible to yourself, or let anyone else do it to you. You weren't and aren't to blame and you never will be and don't let anyone tell you different.

Focus on the RCC. They are brilliant, they will help you, you will get a lot from their help. Do not focus on the twisted definitions of rape you have learned so far, those definitions are wrong and you need to unlearn them.

Best of luck and mind yourself OP.

Zedsmeds

But people have also told me that is was my fault and I'm just as to blame as those men.
And that having sex when you don't want isn't rape its just regret.
I don't want to take help away from people who've actually been raped and the woman I spoke to on the phone just sounded like she wanted to hang up on me but only didn't because I was upset.
She was very sympathetic until I said the "problem" then her tone seemed to change.
I tried speaking to my gp about this and I got the same kind of response.

bee06

The people who said it was your fault are full of sh*t. It's as simple as that.

Is it possible when speaking to your GP and the woman at the RCC that you downplayed the situation when speaking about it because you don't fully accept the fact that you were raped? Or maybe you were reading something into what they said for the same reason.

You do deserve help, you were not at fault here. Please don't listen to the people who say you were.

Zedsmeds

bee06 wrote: »

The people who said it was your fault are full of sh*t. It's as simple as that.

Is it possible when speaking to your GP and the woman at the RCC that you downplayed the situation when speaking about it because you don't fully accept the fact that you were raped? Or maybe you were reading something into what they said for the same reason.

You do deserve help, you were not at fault here. Please don't listen to the people who say you were.

But why are they wrong? And everyone else right?
I dont think I downplayed it, I just said it as easy as I could as I dont like talking about it.
I can't fully accept that I was "raped" because I don't believe I was.

bee06

Who are the people who said it was your fault?

pilly

Zedsmeds wrote:

But people have also told me that is was my fault and I'm just as to blame as those men. And that having sex when you don't want isn't rape its just regret. I don't want to take help away from people who've actually been raped and the woman I spoke to on the phone just sounded like she wanted to hang up on me but only didn't because I was upset. She was very sympathetic until I said the "problem" then her tone seemed to change. I tried speaking to my gp about this and I got the same kind of response.

How do you mean when you said "the problem" her tone changed? What did you tell her the problem was?

Zedsmeds

bee06 wrote: »

Who are the people who said it was your fault?

A couple of old friends, boyfriend, sister and mother.

bee06

Zedsmeds wrote: »

A couple of old friends, boyfriend, sister and mother.

The same mother and the same sibling who told a 13 year old girl she was frigid and bullied her into feeling like she had to have sex with grown men? These people are not objective people. I don't know why anyone would tell someone who told your story it was their fault but I do believe they were wrong.

I also believe that any man can tell the difference between a woman who is consenting to sex to one who has completely shut down and stopped speaking etc. And that is leaving aside your age.

Zedsmeds

pilly wrote: »

How do you mean when you said "the problem" her tone changed? What did you tell her the problem was?

I mean it was kind of like she said "oh that's what happened" but without saying it.
I told her that I arranged to meet someone and didn't want to go through with it but I did anyways. And I told her my age and she asked their age and I told her.
I was worries beforehand that they wouldn't deal with it but she just kind of sounded disgusted with me and I felt like she was expecting worse from how upset I was.
I mean I could've been misreading it all. I probably shouldn't have rang.

Zedsmeds

bee06 wrote: »

The same mother and the same sibling who told a 13 year old girl she was frigid and bullied her into feeling like she had to have sex with grown men? These people are not objective people. I don't know why anyone would tell someone who told your story it was their fault but I do believe they were wrong.

I also believe that any man can tell the difference between a woman who is consenting to sex to one who has completely shut down and stopped speaking etc. And that is leaving aside your age.

I was just young and stupid. I need to be able to take responsibility for what I've done. No one else made me do that. It's my fault I went there. I didn't stop them. I didn't say no. I drank the alcohol, I did what they told me to. Its my fault.

eviltwin

Zedsmeds wrote: »

I was just young and stupid. I need to be able to take responsibility for what I've done. No one else made me do that. It's my fault I went there. I didn't stop them. I didn't say no. I drank the alcohol, I did what they told me to. Its my fault.

It's so sad to read your posts and how you feel about yourself and what happened to you. But I understand because for a long time I felt the same way about my abuse.

I believed I had given some signal that made me a target, maybe I'd said something inappropriate or looked at him the wrong way. I didn't get counselling for a long time and was very resistant to it but it was the best thing I did and I only wish I'd done it sooner.

I'm now living a happy, normal life and not letting him control me anymore because that's what you're doing when you don't get help, you're allowing that person to stay in control. All your fears about what people will say, how they might blame you....that's his words. You deserve to live a happy life and you deserve to be at peace. I know it's scary but it's the best gift you could give yourself.

Taltos

Zedsmeds wrote: »

I was just young and stupid. I need to be able to take responsibility for what I've done. No one else made me do that. It's my fault I went there. I didn't stop them. I didn't say no. I drank the alcohol, I did what they told me to. Its my fault.

Zeds - this post alone is one of the most upsetting I've read here in a long long time.
NONE of this was or is your fault.

You were a child. Below the age of consent which is there for a reason.
Its not just because our bodies aren't fully prepared for the consequences of sex but its also because mentally and emotionally the professionals and courts have deemed that we are NOT fully capable of making an informed decision. So you chooosing to do what you did does not mean you are in any way responsible here.

The responsible parties are your parents who by all of your accounts here have severely let you down in the biggest way possible.

I know we trot this line out again and again but you really do need to talk to someone about this. Either the rape crisis line or a counsellor.
You need help coming to terms with the abuse you've suffered and you have to learn to accept you had no role in any responsibility there. None. At the very very worst you're a survivor. Please cut yourself some slack and talk to someone asap.

njs030

Op a 13 year old is a child and makes mistakes and does silly things all the time. It's up to the parents of that child to protect and care for her and make sure her mistakes aren't life altering or stupid enough that they have lasting consequences.

You've been hugely, hugely let down by adults who took advantage of your innocence and by your mother who should have been looking out for you, none of this is your fault.
None of it.

Please talk to a counsellor and try to see things with an open mind, stop thinking anyone is judging you. At worst any change in their tone of voice is sympathy and wanting to help you

Zedsmeds

My boyfriend was the first person to tell me it was rape and it took me a long time to come around and believe him. But I did and I thought I was actually getting better.
My boyfriend is the only person I have ever been properly intimate with.
But his opinion on it changed and he said he only thought it was rape so he could deal with it, deal with me being so disgusting and that it wasn't rape and I wanted it to happen and that I only regret it now.
I don't understand why he thinks like that, he is autistic as well and he used to be so helpful and comforting. Now he just deals with me. I want to think it was rape and I want him to see the way he used to but I don't see how.

Taltos

OP you can't control others, nor how they think about things.
All you can do is try to control yourself, and most of us fail there at the first attempt and even the second, but where we keep failing thats where we need to ask for help.

Talk to someone. They'll give you the tools you need to deal with how you've been let down, both in the past by your parents and now by your current partner. Maybe with these tools you can help him understand how you're feeling and change how he looks at things but if you are counting on him being supportive again then thats unfortunately the wrong thing to be aiming for. Your BF might be supportive, but he's not qualified to help and possibly feels inadequate and instead of supporting you is lashing out in a way to hurt you instead.

Call the rape crisis centre please.

Minera

Op you were raped. You need to talk to someone who is able to listen to you objectively. That person will not be a person who knows you well or is involved in your life at this moment. Go to your local women's centre and request a councillor it may be helpful to tell them you have autism.

LegacyUser

Zedsmeds wrote: »

I mean it was kind of like she said "oh that's what happened" but without saying it.
I told her that I arranged to meet someone and didn't want to go through with it but I did anyways. And I told her my age and she asked their age and I told her.
I was worries beforehand that they wouldn't deal with it but she just kind of sounded disgusted with me and I felt like she was expecting worse from how upset I was.
I mean I could've been misreading it all. I probably shouldn't have rang.

I am 100% certain that anyone taking calls at the RCC would not react like you think they did, the RCC simply would not tolerate it. I am equally certain that you have misunderstood her reaction and tone and projected your own feelings onto that call. That's natural, but it has resulted in you having a totally false understanding of the call taker's reaction. That person did not judge you and the RCC are there to help you if you let them.

pilly

Guessed wrote: »

I am 100% certain that anyone taking calls at the RCC would not react like you think they did, the RCC simply would not tolerate it. I am equally certain that you have misunderstood her reaction and tone and projected your own feelings onto that call. That's natural, but it has resulted in you having a totally false understanding of the call taker's reaction. That person did not judge you and the RCC are there to help you if you let them.

Totally agree, these people are trained especially OP. I think it was probably because of your own low self esteem that you imagined a change in tone.

Zedsmeds

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to misread her. It happens a lot with people. I just don't think I understand how other people and emotions work yet.
Sorry.

pilly

Zedsmeds wrote: »

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to misread her. It happens a lot with people. I just don't think I understand how other people and emotions work yet.
Sorry.

Don't be sorry, it's probably to do with your autism. Just bear this in mind in your interactions with people and don't always assume the worst.