Female Friendships

Warriorgirl

Hi there,

Anyone else find female Friendships so complicated? I have always have a good circle of female friends through school and college but have found that as I get older it's harder to stay in contact. I understand that we are all busy, I am too but I sometimes feel that people I would have considered close friends just don't make an effort to meet up and use being "busy" as an excuse! We could all use that excuse but sometimes you have to put yourself out!

One friend recently cancelled a meet up of a few friends and it was the third cancellation in a row and was just down to lack of effort! Everyone was put out but the next day I said I was disappointed and felt wasn't much effort being put into friendship! I got this thanks for your honesty text which wasn't case at all and said friend has pretty much cut contact since. Everybody else complained about her but nobody said a word and they all colluded with the busyness excuse.

Another friend, will text last minute to meet as suits her and if you can't won't commit to another date and will ignore you for a few weeks. I want to say something but don't want a falling out and risk losing another friend it just seems technology has made us lazy and bad mannered at times.

I don't want to give impression am needy and have really high expectations from people as really don't. Of course there are times, when I cancel and I know things come up for people. I.am talking about patterns of behaviour, consistent cancelling and ignoring of messages until suits.

Do you just put up with this? I just find guys Friendships much easier looking in. They meet up, no cancelling, no drama. Is it worth being friends with people who have bad manners around this stuff?

Advice please?

Cutsiepie15

I have found the older I've gotten and especially after I hit 30 that I have whittled down my friend group to those that are reliable and make the effort. Yes, everyone's lives get busy and it takes a lot of effort and forward planning to organise meet ups but those who really want to will make the effort and those who don't, won't. They are the people I've cut out, also anyone who is excessively negative, I don't mean going to through a hard time but those who find the bad in everything. Girls in particular are terrible for this. I find my two closest make friends the easiest to organise things with and they take everything in their stride. Saying that the female friends I do have are wonderful and I'd do anything for them and vice versa but I did have to cut girls out of my life. Harsh but it sometimes you need to look after yourself.

SozBbz

I don't know if this is unique to female friendships, or simply just a sign of getting older.

I've one friend who has almost completely drifted away at this point - its really sad but I'm not sure theres anything I can do about it. She's not the type of person who would take it well (like your example above) so I'm inclined to leave her at it.

Male friendships are different but I still think meetups etc become less frequent as they get older, certainly if my OH's circle of friends is anything to go by. They're terrible for only making plans at less than 24 hours notice, and some of the lads never go. He commented only yesterday that he hadnt seen one guy since Christmas, because he just hasnt really been out. Same excuses though, busyness. 3/4 years ago they'd see each other once a week, where as now its 4-6weeks at best, sometimes longer.

The difference is men dont get bent out of shape about it, where as women are more likely to take it personally, but I genuinely think all adult friendships survive on a lot less contact as you get older.

via4

It definitely happens a lot as we get older it kinda sucks. It definitely can help if you don't take it personally. I tried to organise that many meet ups the last few years I actually am so used to doing my own thing I kinda prefer it. There was a similar post a while ago and il say the same thing again sometimes when things are planned there is a high chance of it being cancelled but if your ever passing a mates house pop in for fives minutes to say hello instead of organising I found that to work out better.

December2012

I have to disagree. Lots of men I know don't have or make time to meet while kids are small or work has pressure. On the other hand I happen to meet up regularly with friends, but not if I'm busy. And I am busy.

I don't know what you expected your friend to do after you complained about her though?

And why give out about your other friends? If they wanted to say something, they would have. Most people don't take such offence to things

There's nothing complicated about female as opposed to male friendships. People are different. I also don't know what you expected your friend to do. You bitched about her behind her back and accused everyone else of "colluding". Maybe she was busy with an emergency. Maybe she has a lot going on that you don't know about and she might not tell you given your reaction.

Warriorgirl

Thanks for the constructive advice! I think as is the norm here some people jumped in without reading the full post. There was no emergency and if there was do you really think would be upset about someone cancelling in such a situation. Absolutely not! I said a pattern of behaviour so not a once off! Also, I didn't bitch behind anyone's back. I actually said to friends face how I felt, while others bitched behind back as they were annoyed too but said nothing. Just clarifying. A lot of Irish people (am Irish) are often so indirect. They say "tell it to me straight" " be honest" but when you do we don't like it! A lot of foreign friends have mentioned same.Was looking for different views not to be told how "most people" would react! So unhelpful! Thanks again to rest!

retro:electro

I am going to be the dissenting voice here and say that I am the flaky friend. Well, I'm not sure id all myself flaky- rather I sometimes have to back out of things last minute due to, well, life.
I'd bet my house you are mid 20's. I just think that this age is where friendship dynamics tend to shift. You've stopped living in each other's pockets, may be in relationships, out of college so now have jobs, family commitments, etc..
In a sense, you're now an adult. Your time is not as frivolous as it once was and you start to appreciate time on your own, doing bits for yourself and just chilling the f out when you're free.

I remember at one stage I'd spend every spare second with my two best friends. But as you get older and acquire more responsibility, things just change. I'm not saying that this is an excuse for being flaky, it's not. Cancelling last minute is rude and insulting to your time, but hey, everybody does it.
I cannot count how many times I've texted friends "can't do this week but definitely next week!", then next week rolls around and I curse myself for committing to something that I know I can't do- but I do it to alleviate the guilt of not being available when they want.
I don't mean to make you feel bad but if my friend texted me something cheeky like you did after I cancelled I'd be thinking she's very immature and needs to cop on. We are all adults now.
I realise I sound like a terrible friend! But I'm not. We get together maybe once or twice a month and that's grand. If there is a big group of you it's even harder.

Warriorgirl

It is interesting getting different perspectives. Am baffled though as how being upfront and honest equates to being immature!! Need to reflect on that lack of adulthood. I would actually say committing to plans you know can't keep on a regular basis is very immature!! Am not a fan of flaky behaviour. Not something I want to embrace irrespective of how much it's the in thing but each to their own.

retro:electro

It's immature because you are, I assume, an adult now. You don't know what she may have going on in her life that she has to keep cancelling. I remember going through a really tough time a few years ago and if you got me on a good day I'd commit to doing anything, but when they day came around I'd be all day thinking of excuses to get me out of it, i would be feeling that low.
You've no idea of the reasons behind her cancelling, and to add insult to injury you've just called her out as a bad friend.
Anyway, I've given my very honest two cents. Take it or leave it. Not bothered.

DrunkenSailor

Why take it all so seriously. Friendship should not be work etc. Why get annoyed. If you are out in a group and someone doesn't turn up. That's their loss. No skin off your nose. Some friends I could do a year without seeing and still be the best friends with as you would trust them with your life. Other friends you see more regularly and wouldn't actually be as close with. Just enjoy it and don't over think it.

Warriorgirl

@drunkensailor. Good advice. Probably guilty of over thinking. You have a nice direct yet non judgemental delivery! Bet you are pretty chilled out! Need a few leaves from your book? 😀

DrunkenSailor

Warriorgirl wrote: »

@drunkensailor. Good advice. Probably guilty of over thinking. You have a nice direct yet non judgemental delivery! Bet you are pretty chilled out! Need a few leaves from your book? 😀

Ahh now don't be flirting with me online -).

GingerLily

Warriorgirl wrote: »

@drunkensailor. Good advice. Probably guilty of over thinking. You have a nice direct yet non judgemental delivery! Bet you are pretty chilled out! Need a few leaves from your book? 😀

You're responses come across very passive aggressive, I don't know if you're aware of that but it might be something that is causing your friends to avoid you? --just a thought

Wesser

I feel exactly the same as you do warrior and find the whole thing very upsetting.
I don't mind if people are busy but then just say no. Don't constantly make arrangements with me a d then back out and disappoint me.
I Really believe that people just get a bit weary as they get a bit old and want to be left alone!!!!!!
I struggled for a long time believing that this was personal but am now 99 % sure it isn't. Occasionally it still crosses my mind!!!
One thing I would say i n life though it is important to learn when to say nothing. This is such a case.

Wesser

GingerLily wrote: »

You're responses come across very passive aggressive, I don't know if you're aware of that but it might be something that is causing your friends to avoid you? --just a thought

How is it passive aggressive?

Airyfairy12

The older ive gotten 90% percent of my friendships are with men as my female friendships have just been far too complicated. Ive a 'friend' like you describe, ill hear from her if and when it suits herself and get no effort from her at all despite me trying to keep the friendship going ive given up on her now. I love my male friends, theyre great but really miss having close female friendships, there really is no other relationship like it in my opinion but women are just far too hard to be friends with these days, I find them flaky, selfish and two faced and only interested in themselves and im tired of being a doormat for the sake of a friendship.
Reading other comments here its nice to know I dont need to take these 'friends' actions personally, it seems to be common for other women too.

GingerLily

Wesser wrote: »

How is it passive aggressive?

There were a few posts in this thread that gave me that impression - maybe I've got it wrong, but maybe the OPs friends are reading her messages the same way I am reading her posts and are put off meets ups?
Most guys don't read messages the same way girls do so maybe that's why it's only girls she's running into difficulty with?

Big Bag of Chips

Why was one person able to cancel a whole group going out? Surely you all have minds of your own and if it still suited the rest of you to meet up, why didn't you? People's lives change. I can say the older I get I have no male friends that I meet up with and go out with on a regular basis. None! I have one male friend from school that I very very occasionally meet up for a cup of tea with. Yet I still have the group of girls I used to hang around with, we are a now women, with lives and we meet up once a year. One of us lives abroad so we make the effort every time she's home. The rest of us despite living close to each other could go the whole year without even seeing each other on the street!

If that person isn't reliable, and other friends are, then arrange nights out without her. Or carry on a night that she can't show up. Some people (men and women) can let friendships slip. I think lots of people (men and women) can be guilty of just not being in the mood due to everything else in their lives and making excuses. I would have been one of them a few years ago. Now life has settled a bit for me and I will really make the effort to go somewhere and meet someone. But, my social life is still probably limited to about 3 or 4 nights out a year! And meeting people for lunch or tea or whatever a bit more often.

Friendships change at different stages of people's lives, and their priorities are different. Just because there was no emergency for your friend, doesn't mean there wasn't something going on in her life that made going out too difficult at that point. You genuinely have zero idea what might be going on with her unless she has told you exactly. Plenty of people hide things from their friends and put on a brave face in public rather than admit something is wrong. You just can't ever know.

But, a group of people shouldn't cancel a night just because one person can't make it.

wistfuleyes

Warriorgirl wrote: »

<Snip> No need to repost full post.

I have to say, in a million years I wouldn't have confronted my friend the way you did. I've a lot of female friends and some cancel at short notice. It happens. It's a pattern with some, not with others. Friends can be friends for different reasons and to fulfill different needs. Some friends can be great drinking buddies, some can be 'coffee' friends, some are lifelong friends etc.
I have a really busy life and sometimes I have to cancel things..sometimes a few times in a row because life can be busy! And overwhelming!..but if any of my friends decided to say that to me..that I wasn't putting in the effort, I'd be pretty horrified. True friends accept you through thick and thin and if there's a reason to cancel something, they don't attack you. I presume your friend had an actual reason like she was busy and not just washing her hair! Wow, I really don't think I'd like a friend like you!!!
Also should add that you are hating when anyone doesn't 'validate' your thoughts. Any dissenting voices here on boards to your behaviour are met with sarcasm and anger on your part.

team_actimel

It's not just female friendships, I think nearly all types of friendships can be affected by this.

People are older, more time working, less time spent with friends as their spare time is usually for family commitments and catching up on 'me time'.

Airyfairy12

wistfuleyes wrote: »

<Snip> No need to quote an entire post

I dont read any anger, sarcasm or hate in her posts, she's just expressing her opinion which sometimes differs from the opinions of others on the thread. Life is busy but friendships go two ways, why continuously put yourself out and try to make time for someone who isnt willing to do the same in return? If someone is consistently ignoring messages and cancelling meetups or only bothering to contact if they need something then thats not a friendship, its one sided and can leave you feeling very used.

Big Bag of Chips

I'd also agree to a point that you shouldn't have sent that text. Was it a group text? If you felt aggrieved by your friend then you should have rang her. Text message can quite often be read in a negative tone, especially one where we feel we are be singled out or blamed for something. I think calling your friend out on it is fine, if you think that was appropriate, but I think your method of doing it was a bit hamfisted, and I'm not surprised your friend is now not talking to you. That could be because she's embarrassed, or upset, or genuinely has something bigger than you going on in her life and prefers to not have to deal with you... Who knows.

But, if she's a friend that you would genuinely like to have a friendship with, I think you need to talk to her. Not text. She may or may not entertain you, but that is her prerogative. If you don't value the friendship enough to try work this out, well then maybe it wasn't worth the effort (for either of you) to begin with.

I have a 'best friend' of over 20 years. We could go months without seeing each other. We both have families. So we could arrange to go out, or meet for lunch or whatever and probably 9 times out of 10 when we arrange to meet it doesn't happen. We laugh about it and we joke about the rare times we do meet up when we actually do see each other.

It happens. You can make an issue of it, or you can just enjoy the times you do meet up.

witchgirl26

OP it's not always friends being flaky or anything but sometimes things come up and I get that it sometimes it can be the same person over and over again but maybe there's things going on in her life that you're not aware of.

I have one friend who I would have been extremely close to during and just after college. For ages it seemed like she was avoiding meeting me and when I asked her about it, she was shocked I thought that as she really wasn't. Just crappy timing of things coming up when we were meant to meet and she's a terror for not messaging normally to keep in touch. I know that now and we work to it. I know she can't meet up during her busy time in work so we could go a couple of months not talking but still good friends.

Same with my best friend - we could go months not talking properly or meeting up but it's just due to different things in our lives happening.

People are generally now at different stages of their lives to their friends despite being the same age, as opposed to the generation above where most got married and had kids around the same time as their friends. This can lead to difficulties meeting up and keeping friendships as close but don't give up on friendships because of this. They take work. And sometimes it is one person making more of an effort but as long as that is appreciated and you like the friend, then what is the harm?

Dr Crayfish

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

I love my male friends, theyre great but really miss having close female friendships, there really is no other relationship like it in my opinion but women are just far too hard to be friends with these days, I find them flaky, selfish and two faced and only interested in themselves and im tired of being a doormat for the sake of a friendship.
Reading other comments here its nice to know I dont need to take these 'friends' actions personally, it seems to be common for other women too.

You clearly made friends with the wrong women, or that's a massive generalisation. Not that I have any close female friends these days but personally I've found women to be better at taking the initiative ,making plans and sticking to them. I always have to instigate plans with my male friends as they are lazy bastards!

LegacyUser

I would have done the same as the OP, just because you are friends with someone doesn't mean you have to put up with selfish behaviour.
All of our time is valuable if you can't or don't want to make something then don't agree to it. Irish people are the worst for this. It is disrespectful to make plans and repeatly cancel them on short notice (the worst are the ones who just don't turn up)
If you don't confront these issues then they just continue. How very Irish to sweep it under the carpet and hope it will magically change.

Airyfairy12

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

You clearly made friends with the wrong women, or that's a massive generalisation. Not that I have any close female friends these days but personally I've found women to be better at taking the initiative ,making plans and sticking to them. I always have to instigate plans with my male friends as they are lazy bastards!

Theyre definitely lazy lol but with male friends I always know where I stand with them and they tend not to use or backstab as ive experienced with female friends, I dont mean to generalise, lots of women have very strong female friendships but I havnt been so lucky. The few female friendships I do have im reluctant to trust them completely as from experience with them theyve not always been particularly trustworthy. Maybe I am just attracting or choosing the wrong women to be friends with.

LLMMLL

Yeah people can have things going on in their lives but there's a sizable cohort of people who are pretty self interested and not very considerate of friends.

There's a fair number of people on here saying "oh ita not selfish, I have to cancel regularly". Think these people are trying to justify their own behaviour.

Confronting her was pointless though. These people never change. The only option is to force yourself to.downgrade them in your head to an acquaintance and never ever rely on them.

By the way, If the chastising message was sent in a whatsapp group then that would be very bad form. Was it sent privatelt?

Warriorgirl

I agree fully with poster who said just say no, don't make plans and not follow through!

I did not send a group whatsapp_ give me a break!!

I feel I am entitled to express my feelings on the matter. We all have our own standards!

Also, to the people saying she may have had something major going on _ 100% did not!!! Fact!

I was the one who actually was dealing with some major stuff and was quite difficult to get out. It was a big deal for me. Date had been arranged way in advance. Lots of time cancel in advance. Had been texting during day all fine, then suddenly " was coming down with something" but next day was fine!! Has done this several times. It's all about suiting her!

Each to their own people. I think last minute canceling because you don't feel like making the effort is beyond bad mannered. Very Irish too! Then can't handle bad behaviour been highlighted. Would you date a guy/girl who cancelled dates last minute? Would that indicate a lack of interest (outside of genuine reasons)?

Am upfront and direct quite the opposite of passive aggressive.

Cheers all

Big Bag of Chips

So why did the rest of you not just go out anyway?

Warriorgirl

Moderators, please close. Thank you.

December2012

So, did you just want people to agree so you could feel better about it?

LLMMLL

You're free to send texts picking people up on their behaviour. But I don't see how you expect them to react well to it. I don't know one person who reacts well to that kind of text, no matter how much they say they value upfrontness. Honestly, I doubt you'd like to get one yourself. So feel free to send them but the "I'm just upfront and people have to deal with it" vibe from your last post isn't going to get you anywhere with anyone.

Airyfairy12

Whats with all the hate towards the OP? This is a public forum after all where people are encouraged to post their personal issues in a safe space. Theres no need to get so worked up over it. I suppose the OP is expected to just be a doormat for rude friends and keep her mouth shut? She obviously cared enough about the friendship to message her friend in the hopes they could find a balance but her friend didnt want to know. I think she handled it really well and at @December2012 if you read through the thread you'll see quite a few people have agreed with her, a few people who didnt agree came across confrontational, aggressive and seemed to take the OP personally. Theres a culture here on boards were users think its acceptable to gang up on posters, jump to conclusions and attack posts.

Big Bag of Chips

Mod Note:

AiryFairy12, if you have an issue with any post in the PI forum, please report it and the mods will look into it. You are here long enough to know that PI is very heavily moderated. PI is an advice forum, and as such people will offer advice. An OP may not agree with it, but they don't have to. Just because posters disagree with, or argue against an OP does not mean posters are "ganging up" on a person. If you believe it to be so, please report the relevant posts to be investigated.

/End Mod Note

WarriorGirl, just to finish the point. You cannot know what is going on in your friends life. You just can't. At the time when I would not go out, or might have to cancel last minute, I was dealing with a very depressed and anxious husband. Not one person outside of the two of us knew about it. So, I was fine. Nothing wrong with me. Nothing going on in MY life. I was in great form as far as my friends were concerned. But when it came to nights out, it just became such that it wasn't worth it. It would be difficult for me to get out in the first place, because my husband would be anxious about being at home with the children. Sometimes I'd have every intention of going, and last minute just couldn't go. Then even when I was out my mind would be on home, and how long I could stay before it would be acceptable to make my excuses and go home. In the end it became easier to just not go out.

Nobody knew. And in fact my closest friends were absolutely shocked when I eventually confided in them years later.

You can never know what is going on in somebody's life. And it's such that they probably don't want to tell you so will lead you to believe there's no problem.

Personally, I love the low maintenance friendships. Those ones that you may not see each other for months, yet when you do it's still easy and relaxed.


Anyway, thread locked as per your request. If you would like it reopened you can contact any of the PI Mods.