Irish so-called "cities"

JupiterKid

So Ireland (the Republic) has 5 officially recognised cities but these are really large towns with Dublin being a mid-sized city in the global urban hierarchy.

The entire population of the country is about the same as Greater Manchester and despite people seeing Dublin as a big city, in reality it is a village at heart that is easy to navigate by walking (the city centre is pretty compact) and I'm always bumping into people I know. Compared to big cities such as London, New York and Tokyo, Dublin is small and I like it that way.

Meanwhile, Cork with a population of just over 200k would be a large town in England. Waterford, the smallest city at 50k population would hold the same population of many Dublin suburbs.

What makes a city a city? Is it facilities, amenities, population or something else - that sense of "urban?"

Do you think Dublin is a big city where people rush too much or is it just a big village at heart? There are bungalows in parts of Dublin less than 2 miles from O'Connell St.

What is your ideal size city? I don't like living in cities that are too big. Between 1 million and 5 million population is the ideal size for me.

RobertKK

Kilkenny is the smallest city in our country and the best one.

Kilkenny was capital of Ireland from 1641 to 1649.

Tigger

RobertKK wrote: »

Kilkenny is the smallest city in our country and the best one.

Kilkenny was capital of Ireland from 1641 to 1649.

i just worked out what your username means

duffman13

RobertKK wrote: »

Kilkenny is the smallest city in our country and the best one.

Kilkenny was capital of Ireland from 1641 to 1649.

No prizes for guessing where you are from!

Cracking spot Kilkenny, it has a great charm but in the real world it isn't a city despite what everyone there believes

ED E

RobertKK wrote: »

Kilkenny is the smallest city in our country and the best one.

Kilkenny was capital of Ireland from 1641 to 1649.

Kilkenny is the four year old who insists to his parents that he's not a child.

Yourself isit

What's the obsession with bug cities anyway? I'm not sure that lagos is my idea of fun.

Any city over 1M is big enough.

CelticRambler

It's a label with an historic meaning, nothing more.

Here in France, a "cité" can be as small as a few office buildings, an estate of tower-blocks or (in my local village, population 750) the mediaeval bit in the centre (population probably about 25).

buzzinfly83

Comparing Ireland cities to London, New York or Tokyo is ridiculous. Ireland is a small country hence smaller cities.

The cities you mentioned are in countries with much bigger populations.

Silentcorner

Actually cities, regardless of their size are very interesting places, if you combine the differences of all the Irish cities you get a much greater appreciation of the collective Irish personality...it's ll there...the humour, talent, culture....poverty, crime, bulls**t, corruption...

Anesthetize

JupiterKid wrote: »

Meanwhile, Cork with a population of just over 200k would be a large town in England.

Keep in mind that England and the UK has some cities smaller than Kilkenny.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_smallest_cities_in_the_United_Kingdom

Mutant z

There should be at least a skyscraper or two built in Dublin to at least give it a look of being a modern major city.

johnnyskeleton

JupiterKid wrote: »

What makes a city a city? Is it facilities, amenities, population or something else - that sense of "urban?"

A cathedral and a charter.

Noveight

Limerick is only a city because "Stab Big-Town" doesn't sound as good.

Joe_ Public

Dublin's a big city by any measure. Population wise, it would comfortably fit inside the top 10 in the US. Like any city, it can be reduced to pocket-sized villages, thus making it easier to navigate.

threeball

Nearly every half assed village in America calls themselves a City.
Kilkenny would look like a metropolis next to most of them.
Freeport Kansas has a population of 5.

Turtyturd

You'd have to have lived a sheltered life to consider Kilkenny the best city in the country....absolute sh!thole.

JupiterKid

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Dublin's a big city by any measure. Population wise, it would comfortably fit inside the top 10 in the US. Like any city, it can be reduced to pocket-sized villages, thus making it easier to navigate.

Have to disagree with you there. Dublin is a mid-size city by global standards. Definitely not in the top 10 in the USA.

Dublin only feels big because Ireland is a small country.

Mutant z

Dublin is bigger than most cities in the UK and quite a lot in the US as well, although it lacks modern high rise development and a metro service, which is in the pipeline but as yet hasn't got off the ground.

looksee

Americans don't have the same meaning of the word city that we do though. A city is simply a center of population.

Silentcorner

Noveight wrote: »

Limerick is only a city because "Stab Big-Town" doesn't sound as good.

Classy!

There are only 3 cities in England with a population over 1 million.
The actual cities themselves are mostly less then 500,000 population.
If you take a greater urban area, which includes outlying towns & villages then they are bigger.
Ireland may have big towns called cities, but a lot of cities in England are just big towns the same size

John_Rambo

There's small cities, big cities and megacities (excellent BBC documentary, really interesting to see the vast vast differences for anyone interested in cites).

They're the centre of culture in countries since the middle ages.

They're all different. That's what's good about them. Comparing them is great, some cities have things that other cities don't, the different cultures, practices, food, architecture... even the different ways traffic, cyclists and pedestrians interact is amazing. That's that. Call them big villages or towns, call them what you want. Either way, they're fascinating to me.

Murrisk

Dublin and Cork both feel like proper cities to me, despite their small size. Galway feels like a town. I don't really know enough about the other Irish cities to give an opinion on them.

4068ac1elhodqr

I'd class a city by it's energy, life and soul. Some large cities don't much nearly as much of a buzz about them as either Dublin nor Belfast.

Auckland, Melbourne and Toronto are that spread out, traffic jams are fairly rare and most folks just stay out in the suburbs. Vancouver is more compact and lively but still not really buzzing. Many people told me there got really tired of Adelaide, in no time. Found London slightly boring as many of the pubs closed at 11pm back then, getting across town there takes ages, even a few locals there said they much prefer the nightlife anywhere in Ireland.

Mutant z

Limerick feels much more like a city than Galway does, which looks more village like in comparison.

John_Rambo

Aden Weak Landmark wrote: »

I'd class a city by it's energy, life and soul. Some large cities don't much nearly as much of a buzz about them as either Dublin nor Belfast.

Auckland, Melbourne and Toronto are that spread out, traffic jams are fairly rare and most folks just stay out in the suburbs. Vancouver is more compact and lively but still not really buzzing. Many people told me there got really tired of Adelaide, in no time. Found London slightly boring as many of the pubs closed at 11pm back then, getting across town there takes ages, even a few locals there said they much prefer the nightlife anywhere in Ireland.

I have a London friend that prefers the (mostly illegal!!!) nightlife on one of Irelands West coast Islands than London!

Murrisk

Aden Weak Landmark wrote: »

I'd class a city by it's energy, life and soul. Some large cities don't much nearly as much of a buzz about them as either Dublin nor Belfast.

+1

Murrisk

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Dublin's a big city by any measure. Population wise, it would comfortably fit inside the top 10 in the US.

God no, not even close. Not by either city proper or metro area standards. But that's not what makes a city anyway, IMO.

blue note

johnnyskeleton wrote:

A cathedral and a charter.

I hear people say this a bit. Where does it come from? Is there a link to a definition or something? Is it a dictionary thing, a government thing, is it an old british thing? Or is it just something people from kilkenny say because they have a cathedral and a city charter. Serious question by the way. I am curious as to why people believe this. Is there some, none or loads of truth behind it.

Yourself isit

Murrisk wrote: »

God no, not even close. Not by either city proper or metro area standards. But that's not what makes a city anyway, IMO.

Its 10th if you measure just the city size. Metropolitan areas in the US include other cities and towns. Sometimes these merge, sometimes they don't.

él statutorio

Murrisk wrote: »

God no, not even close. Not by either city proper or metro area standards. But that's not what makes a city anyway, IMO.

I'd have agreed with you but surprisingly Dublin would be in the ball park.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population

Now I know you can split hairs etc but the surprising thing is that after the top 5, the populations aren't that big.

Your Face

Haha.

Murrisk

él statutorio wrote: »

I'd have agreed with you but surprisingly Dublin would be in the ball park.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population

That's city proper populations. Dublin's city proper population is around 500,000. The lowest of the top ten there is around 1,000,000. Dublin's metro area is about 1,000,000 but, again, the metro area of the smallest of the top ten cities is around 2,000,000.

Joe_ Public

We could split the difference and agree it's a pretty big city by global standards, but not a massive one. I'd be happy with that

él statutorio

Murrisk wrote: »

That's city proper populations. Dublin's city proper population is around 500,000. The lowest of the top ten is around 1,000,000. Dublin's metro area is about 1,000,000 but, again, the metro area of the smallest of the top ten cities is around 2,000,000.

It's based on city limits. Ireland doesn't really have a similar measurement to accurately compare.

But basing it solely on the city I currently live in and comparing it to Dublin (not all that scientific I grant you) It would probably encompass a Dublin population of about 1m. Think a loop from Clontarf to Ashtown to Drimnagh and back in to Booterstown.

Murrisk

él statutorio wrote: »

It's based on city limits. Ireland doesn't really have a similar measurement to accurately compare.

But basing it solely on the city I currently live in and comparing it to Dublin (not all that scientific I grant you) It would probably encompass a Dublin population of about 1m. Think a loop from Clontarf to Ashtown to Drimnagh and back in to Booterstown.

Santa Barbara isn't top ten!

Kilkenny, an entire town of stag and hen parties. How experiencing that on a weekend would knock the romantic notions one might have of medieval Kilkenny and its cultured heritage.

A corporate borough is not a city; all towns of the Pale had corporations. Kilkenny was never a 'city' in the middle ages, although it did have a charter virtually identical to the other towns (nearly always explicitly so). It was only in the 17th century that Kilkenny was first given 'city' status.

The biggest joke of all is Newry, a 'city' since 2002. The putative "Irish nationalists" there, with their backward West Brit notions, went to the British Queen to petition her - petition her! - to make their little shíthole a city then (I was decidedly indifferent to Newry until 2002 but these wannabe Paddy notions straight from 19th-century cultural colonisation really inspire me; the 'Lord' mayors being another example - the medieval mayorial title never had 'Lord' in it in any Irish city; the Royalist cult renamed Cork's 'Mayor', established in 1273, as 'Lord Mayor' as recently as 1900). Historically uprooted plonkers far removed from their own Irish tradition. Newry and Kingstown should get a room together.

Stephen15

Theres only three real cities in Ireland and those are Dublin, Cork and Limerick four if you include Belfast. Dublin being the only fair sized city the rest are reletively small. Galway and Waterford are only large towns.

buzzinfly83

Stephen15 wrote: »

Theres only three real cities in Ireland and those are Dublin, Cork and Limerick four if you include Belfast. Dublin being the only fair sized city the rest are reletively small. Galway and Waterford are only large towns.

Waterford is the oldest city in Ireland

awec

How many times have we had this thread?

4068ac1elhodqr

Stephen15 wrote: »

Theres only three real cities in Ireland and those are Dublin, Cork and Limerick four if you include Belfast. Dublin being the only fair sized city the rest are reletively small. Galway and Waterford are only large towns.

From the ISS they'd probably say there only appears to be two major urban areas or cities (D&B) on the Island. With the rest of the lights just representing a scattering of outpost towns of one medium size (Cork) and the rest of small population sizes.

él statutorio

Murrisk wrote: »

Santa Barbara isn't top ten!

I'm not suggesting it is!

Like I said, it was my unscientific method of putting an approximate city limit on Dublin.

Mr_Muffin

Waterford and Kilkenny are really just towns. This is not a bad thing - both are extremely easy to navigate and cheaper than Dublin.

Balmed Out

Personally I think anywhere with an opera house and a magic kissing stone is a city.

osarusan

I lived in a few cities in Japan that were 2 or 3 times the size of Cork, yet there was very little to do there. Just huge commuter belt cities. They were all close to bigger cities like Tokyo and Yokohama, which had all the big city stuff already.

Cork, (and even Limerick) has more to do, and more energy about them than those places, and I think it's because that some Irish cities, whatever their size, are centres of a region, whereas those bigger cities are not.

So, for the most part, they have the stuff that regional centres have, and they have the atmosphere and identity of a centre about them. Similarly, I lived for a year in Matsumoto in Japan, which is smaller than Cork, but again, it was a centre for the region, and felt like one.

Yourself isit

Murrisk wrote: »

That's city proper populations. Dublin's city proper population is around 500,000. The lowest of the top ten there is around 1,000,000. Dublin's metro area is about 1,000,000 but, again, the metro area of the smallest of the top ten cities is around 2,000,000.

As I said Metropolitan areas in the US can incorporate multiple cities (like the bay area or new York metro) or rural areas like greater Boston.

Wiki says metro Dublin is 1.3M and greater Dublin is 2M. The latter presumably includes commuting towns and counties. (Bray for instance).

In terms of footprint Dublin is far too large. For its population

AllForIt

I read somewhere and I'm not sure if it's correct, that Dublin has one of the biggest continuous urban sprawls in Europe in terms of distance, not population.

But the urban sprawl is not part of the city, it just surrounds it. The city itself is quite small and one can walk form north to south of the city in no time all all, lets say starting from Phibsborough to Donnybrook.

What makes a city a city? Is it facilities, amenities, population or something else - that sense of "urban?"

Size. The bigger it is the more diverse it is and the more exciting it is. I love cities myself and love to get to know a city by walking or cycling within it but after a few short years of living in Dublin I find it a bit boring. I don't think there is a single street in Dublin I have not trodden. Nothing much new to discover after a short while.

Do you think Dublin is a big city where people rush too much or is it just a big village at heart?

It's a small city.

What is your ideal size city?

Big, like London. For all the many years I lived there there are still many parts of it I haven't discovered.

Having said that there are parts of Dublin I really like like the area surrounding St.Stephens Green all the way down to Donnybrook and Ballsbridge where I have taken many an enjoyable stroll.

Vic_08

Joe_ Public wrote: »

We could split the difference and agree it's a pretty big city by global standards, but not a massive one. I'd be happy with that

Except that it really isn't.

Dublin is #425 on this list by population size.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_urban_areas_by_population

4068ac1elhodqr

Yourself isit wrote: »

In terms of footprint Dublin is far too large. For its population

Auckland is much larger and more or less the same population.
https://versus.com/en/auckland-vs-dublin

Dublin does need better infrastructure, wider streets and some high-rise areas, but blame the Viking lads when the arrived a few years ago.

lalabear53

Anyone that is familiar with Sligo town will know that there is numerous signs around it saying "City Core " and "City Loop" also believe that there is a sign when entering Sligo from the southern side saying "Welcome to the Gateway City"

Yourself isit

Aden Weak Landmark wrote: »

Auckland is much larger and more or less the same population.
https://versus.com/en/auckland-vs-dublin

Dublin does need better infrastructure, wider streets and some high-rise areas, but blame the Viking lads when the arrived a few years ago.

But Paris is much more compact.

That sites statistics are bollocks though. It says Dublin has a population of 550k, is not close to a mountain and has a lower wage than Paris. I doubt all of that.