The immersion

I'm sure most Irish people are aware of the cultural obsession of not leaving the immersion on. :pac: But I'm about to challenge that...

I was in the US recently and the house I was staying in had two large water heaters in the basement. They leave them on all the time, so they have hot water whenever they want. I asked about it and I was told that the tanks are well insulated and that it would use more energy to repeatedly heat the water from cold and let it cool down again, than it would to simply maintain the water at a constant warmth.

Obviously many Irish cylinders still aren't insulated properly and a lot of us have electric showers so there may be less of a need to keep it on. Would you leave your immersion on constantly? Or would you even dare to try?

LadyMacBeth_

I hear that your citizenship is revoked and you're deported if you leave the immersion on for more than 24 hours.

pajo1981

Karsini wrote: »

I was told that ... it would use more energy to repeatedly heat the water from cold and let it cool down again, than it would to simply maintain the water at a constant warmth.

You were told wrong. Your losses are greater the higher the temperature. Less energy required in the former scenario.

If its well insulated and juice is cheap then the cost difference will be negligible of course given the covenience. Also yank like to shower 6 times a day, so you have that.

Poor Uncle Tom

Karsini wrote: »

I'm sure most Irish people are aware of the cultural obsession of not leaving the immersion on. :pac: But I'm about to challenge that...

I was in the US recently and the house I was staying in had two large water heaters in the basement. They leave them on all the time, so they have hot water whenever they want. I asked about it and I was told that the tanks are well insulated and that it would use more energy to repeatedly heat the water from cold and let it cool down again, than it would to simply maintain the water at a constant warmth.

Obviously many Irish cylinders still aren't insulated properly and a lot of us have electric showers so there may be less of a need to keep it on. Would you leave your immersion on constantly? Or would you even dare to try?

I have 2 immersions on constantly with about 7 years. No problem, hot water all the time, tanks very well insulated.

Shock horror....

The_Valeyard

LadyMacBeth_ wrote: »

I hear that your citizenship is revoked and you're deported if you leave the immersion on for more than 24 hours.

24 hours?
I believe it's 2-4 hours if you have left the house.

pickarooney

Gas heats our water. It's always hot. That's all I need to know.

Armchair Andy

Immersion with the bath and sink swopped so never enough water for a shower unless you think to switch it on at "sink".
Must be a running joke amongst sparks.

Have a water heater. Tap turned on, hot water comes out. Tap turned off, it stops. According to my Grandmother, that is what Utopia looks like.

K.Flyer

Modern Irish hot water cylinders are reasonably well insulated, so a couple of hours using the immersion and the water will still be hot for a good few hours.
I have tried this "theory" of leaving the immersion on 24/7 during a nominal billing period as compared to using a time clock set up to heat water only for when it is needed, and the theory was busted by the Huge increase in the energy usage and cost.
Use a good time clock to heat water for just when you need it and you will conserve energy and save money.

we had an immersion on 24 hours a day for around 18 years when we lived at home.
didn't cause any big bills.

Pat Mustard

Karsini wrote: »

the house I was staying in had two large water heaters in the basement. They leave them on all the time, so they have hot water whenever they want. I asked about it and I was told that the tanks are well insulated and that it would use more energy to repeatedly heat the water from cold and let it cool down again, than it would to simply maintain the water at a constant warmth.

Donald Trump has repealed the laws of thermodynamics?

368100

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

I have 2 immersions on constantly with about 7 years. No problem, hot water all the time, tanks very well insulated.

Shock horror....

Why two if you don't mind me asking? Two cylinders?

Wildsurfer

Armchair Andy wrote: »

Immersion with the bath and sink swopped so never enough water for a shower unless you think to switch it on at "sink".
Must be a running joke amongst sparks.

That's a very easy fix. The wires going to elements are wrong way around. Turn off immersion switch and flick down main trip and take cover off top of immersion going into tank. Then simply swop the wires going into each element. Leave the wire going into stat alone.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

we had an immersion on 24 hours a day for around 18 years when we lived at home.
didn't cause any big bills.

You are obviously just used to the very high bills all the time.

Poor Uncle Tom

368100 wrote: »

Why two if you don't mind me asking? Two cylinders?

Big distance between shower sets, don't like wasting water on the long pipe runs, much easier and more economical to install a second cylinder.

crosstownk

368100 wrote: »

Why two if you don't mind me asking? Two cylinders?

America. Everything is supersized.

Pat Mustard

The immersion is great old talking point. Des Bishop made his career out of it and he's about as funny as a wet Monday.

Outlaw Pete

Ah, Des... I know the career's dimming and all but it's done, this material's well and truly milked.

Outlaw Pete

Damn you, Pat Mustard, damn you!

Pat Mustard

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Damn you, Pat Mustard, damn you!

I was wondering there for a minute!

demanufactured

Mine is broken.

Simple answer to that...
I have 2 shower heads.. One from the electric shower.. one from the mixer tap.

Use the electric in summer and use the mixer in winter.. My stove is lit every day from October onto March so plenty of hot after all winter

CelticRambler

K.Flyer wrote: »

I have tried this "theory" of leaving the immersion on 24/7 during a nominal billing period as compared to using a time clock set up to heat water only for when it is needed, and the theory was busted by the Huge increase in the energy usage and cost.

The immersion has long been the preferred method of water heating in France, exactly as in Ireland but without the obsession for turning it off, because we've got cheap nuclear electricity. Well, we did have ...

Anyhow, on "how to live in France" forums, one of the common questions posed by newcomers is "why is my electricity bill so high?" to which the answer is almost always "because you leave your immersion on all the time".

Anyone who's done the comparison of 24/7 vs. timed sees an immediate drop in their consumption, the saving being proportional to how much hot water they find they really need - e.g. discovering that it's perfectly fine to wash your hands in cold water.

Kalani Brave Reversal

Kalani Brave Reversal wrote: »

You are obviously just used to the very high bills all the time.

no, we didnt have high bills. my mother obviously checked!
Now I have been paying bills myself for over 20 years, I know they were not high.

K.Flyer

bubblypop wrote: »

no, we didnt have high bills. my mother obviously checked!
Now I have been paying bills myself for over 20 years, I know they were not high.

Imagine if you used a timer, they would be even lower

myshirt

I had to run the gas off the electricity, and the electricity off the gas, and in total we'd save 200 pounds.

D3V!L

I have the immersion on 24/7. I keep the costs down by running the gas off the electricity and the electricity off the gas.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

no, we didnt have high bills. my mother obviously checked!
Now I have been paying bills myself for over 20 years, I know they were not high.

What's your montly esb bill like? I lived in a house share for a while where people left the immersion on and the bills were massive.

jeepcj

Also the majority of hot water heaters in America are gas fired not electrical.

Fathom

Karsini wrote: »

I was in the US recently and the house I was staying in had two large water heaters in the basement. They leave them on all the time, so they have hot water whenever they want..

SoCal apartments too.

myshirt

Those Americans have no respect for life, but to be fair, what they do have, and no one can deny it, is one of the finest collection of boilers in the world.

And I include Canada in that.

jester77

I've district heating, no messing with any switches or boilers. Instant hot water 24/7. Can only recommend, really should be part of any new development.

jester77

jester77 wrote: »

I've district heating, no messing with any switches or boilers. Instant hot water 24/7. Can only recommend, really should be part of any new development.

How much does it cost though? It will likely suit a heavy user but a light user of heat/hot water will still have to pay no?

Persephone kindness

I am so sick of this joke.

K.Flyer

jester77 wrote: »

I've district heating, no messing with any switches or boilers. Instant hot water 24/7. Can only recommend, really should be part of any new development.

They are a good system, the main downside with it is that the individual users cannot "shop around" for energy saving deals, thats up to whoever is running the system, who will always add up a margin of sorts to cover maintenance and breakdowns, plus some more to cover their fees.

jester77

Kalani Brave Reversal wrote: »

How much does it cost though? It will likely suit a heavy user but a light user of heat/hot water will still have to pay no?

You pay for what you use, there is a water meter that measures it, same for the normal water.

Not sure how much the heating costs. I pay €190 a month and that covers all water, warm water and heating for the house as well as the running costs for the station.

jester77

K.Flyer wrote: »

They are a good system, the main downside with it is that the individual users cannot "shop around" for energy saving deals, thats up to whoever is running the system, who will always add up a margin of sorts to cover maintenance and breakdowns, plus some more to cover their fees.

All the households agree on a provider and we sign a contract with them for x years, so we can shop around every x years. It probably costs a bit more, but there is little maintenance in each house, no noise from heating kicking in like you get in since houses and if something goes wrong it is immediately fixed. I am happy with it, get a very detailed break down of usage and usually get money back each year.

Sam Kade

K.Flyer wrote: »

Modern Irish hot water cylinders are reasonably well insulated, so a couple of hours using the immersion and the water will still be hot for a good few hours.
I have tried this "theory" of leaving the immersion on 24/7 during a nominal billing period as compared to using a time clock set up to heat water only for when it is needed, and the theory was busted by the Huge increase in the energy usage and cost.
Use a good time clock to heat water for just when you need it and you will conserve energy and save money.

Being a dairy farmer I've a 35 gallon water heater in the dairy that stays on year round even when the cows a dried off. No massive ESB bills, apart from a small amount of energy to keep the tempt up to 80 degrees C the only energy it uses is when water is drained off.

AllForIt

I proved to my 3 flatmates that it only cost a fiver a month each for the 4 of us to leave the gas immersion on in summer for hot water for the kitchen sink and bathrooms but would they f*ck leave it on, instead happy to wash the dishes in cold water and probably stretch the electric shower hose over to the bathroom sink instead. Will never understand the mentality of this kind of stupidity.

Lia_lia

I once left the immersion on in my boyfriend's Dad's house for a whole weekend. I was living there for a while and himself and his Dad were going to his grandparent's for the weekend. I was going home to my Mother's. I was last to leave the house and forgot to turn off the immersion after having a shower.

Got some shock when I found out I left it on. Felt so bad I got his Dad a voucher to repay him

jester77

jester77 wrote: »

You pay for what you use, there is a water meter that measures it, same for the normal water.

Not sure how much the heating costs. I pay ?190 a month and that covers all water, warm water and heating for the house as well as the running costs for the station.

Fair enough if it's metered. 190 euro is huge though (though I know it's gets colder over there in winter), we would rarely have a gas bill over 100 euro for two months even in winter and that's central heating and water heating in summer is around 50 euro for 2 months.

AllForIt wrote: »

I proved to my 3 flatmates that it only cost a fiver a month each for the 4 of us to leave the gas immersion on in summer for hot water for the kitchen sink and bathrooms but would they f*ck leave it on, instead happy to wash the dishes in cold water and probably stretch the electric shower hose over to the bathroom sink instead. Will never understand the mentality of this kind of stupidity.

I'd agree with them, no way it was only costing 20 euro extra a month.

2011

It is far cheaper to heat water using a gas boiler than heating it electricity even when a dual tariff (day/night) meter is used. Simply compare the unit costs to verify this.

Storing hot water means higher losses than storing cold water so keeping the immersion on 24/7 will mean more losses than heating water with the immersion as it is required.

jester77

Kalani Brave Reversal wrote: »

Fair enough if it's metered. 190 euro is huge though (though I know it's gets colder over there in winter), we would rarely have a gas bill over 100 euro for two months even in winter and that's central heating and water heating in summer is around 50 euro for 2 months.

That is not just the heating, also covers water, water disposal, warm water for showers, taps, etc plus there is no electricity costs that would be associated with running an immersion or electric shower. It probably balances out over the year, we would use a lot more water in the summer for the plants, sprinkler, kids pool, etc but more on heating in the winter months.

The Backwards Man

Not sure if mine is even working, last switched on in 2003. Electric showers, dishwashers and back boilers are a culchie's best friends.

Beyondgone

Karsini wrote: »

I'm sure most Irish people are aware of the cultural obsession of not leaving the immersion on. :pac: But I'm about to challenge that...

I was in the US recently and the house I was staying in had two large water heaters in the basement. They leave them on all the time, so they have hot water whenever they want. I asked about it and I was told that the tanks are well insulated and that it would use more energy to repeatedly heat the water from cold and let it cool down again, than it would to simply maintain the water at a constant warmth.

Obviously many Irish cylinders still aren't insulated properly and a lot of us have electric showers so there may be less of a need to keep it on. Would you leave your immersion on constantly? Or would you even dare to try?

I leave it on all the time. I also have electric undersink water heaters in the other bathrooms and the kitchen. Permanent hot water. Drives herself nuts.

We grew up with a super-ser that got turned on for 20 minutes, towels that never saw fabric softner and the immersion went on for 1 hour of a Saturday.

Fcuk that. Hot water all day rules. It's my own peculiarity. I blame the parents. I even got a big, fcuk off Patio heater and plonked it in the main bathroom. If I'm having a shower, it's on. Growing up, having a shower/bath was like something out of a Spetznaz selection process. Not happening now. Freezing is dull.

jester77

jester77 wrote: »

That is not just the heating, also covers water, water disposal, warm water for showers, taps, etc plus there is no electricity costs that would be associated with running an immersion or electric shower. It probably balances out over the year, we would use a lot more water in the summer for the plants, sprinkler, kids pool, etc but more on heating in the winter months.

Yeah I understand, I was referring to all our heating and hot water in the figures I gave. We don't use electrics to heat water either 190 would cover two months gas and electricity bills most of the year us (heating supplemented by a fire in the living room during the winter which we have free fuel for). Of course we don't pay for water or water disposal so that's not involved and no kids etc so usage would be lower and no hot water all day long obviously but we don't see any need for it enough for a 10 mins shower is all that's needed.

Still looks fairly expensive over there,

GerryDerpy

I could never understand the need for hot water in sinks. Clean the dishes straight after use and cold water works fine.

Beyondgone

GerryDerpy wrote: »

I could never understand the need for hot water in sinks. Clean the dishes straight after use and cold water works fine.

It does, yeah.

GerryDerpy

GerryDerpy wrote: »

I could never understand the need for hot water in sinks. Clean the dishes straight after use and cold water works fine.

Same as, when I lived in a house with an electric shower and some like minded people we could go weeks or even months without heating water. Washing dishes, shaving etc can all be done fine with cold water.

Jesus Wept

paper plates, game over

Victor

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Big distance between shower sets, don't like wasting water on the long pipe runs, much easier and more economical to install a second cylinder.

Insulate the pipes.

Beyondgone wrote: »

I even got a big, fcuk off Patio heater and plonked it in the main bathroom

How's the carbon monoxide poisoning going?

GerryDerpy wrote: »

I could never understand the need for hot water in sinks. Clean the dishes straight after use and cold water works fine.

How much washing up liquid are you using to remove grease / oil?

Poor Uncle Tom

crosstownk wrote: »

America. Everything is supersized.

If it's not in the big schmoke, it's for-den........:D