Ryanair seating policy changes

ohlordy

Being discussed here http://www.broadsheet.ie/2017/06/06/ask-a-broadsheet-reader-151/

A petty and annoying change for many passengers, irrelevant to many others

Basically, if you don't pay for a specific seat then expect to not be seated with others on your booking, regardless of the seats already assigned on the plane. FR being unnecessarily assholish in my opinion

trellheim

Sounds like someone in ancillary revenue cooked up another wheeze , in fairness they are open about it

Simon Gruber Says

I don't really see the issue here. If you want to guarantee sitting together, you have the option to book two seats beside each other.

If you chose not to do this, you can hardly complain about ending up not sitting beside each other.

jjbrien

Happend to me 3 weeks ago we did the free check in and they put us in 2 aisle seats one in front of the other. Happened to lots of people on the plane and there was a lot of seat swapping going on due to it and made boarding much slower.

ahbell

I can see them rolling this back once they figure out they lose more money by people being less inclined to spend €6 on a 330ml can of Heineken when they are sitting next to a stranger rather than their mates, not to mention the slower boarding as someone else has already mentioned.

LiamaDelta

Seems to be that when using the random allocation they will allocate all of the middle seats first then aisle - thus trying to encourage people to pay to chose a seat (but also helping even-out weight distribution). On a recent trip I was watching the seats as they filled up over time and left it until the morning of the flight to check in. By that time there wasn't even two seats together that were available to select. Ended up being allocated two window seats in rows 30 & 32. Flight was around 95% full.

trellheim

This would then indicate selecting a later checkin to avoid a middle seat

gizmo81

I love flying Ryanair, I know what it is, It's gets me there on time, and leaves me with spending money.

However, this new policy and the taking baggage at the gate drives me cuckoo. Why, because it's not effective. It slows down my journey, it makes people angry thus raised voices which interferes with my experience. A mother was try to hold up the plane recently till moved whole family moved together. Families should be assigned seating free. Groups older than 18 should pay.

I get it, it's budget but these policies in my opinion are not economically sound.

Charge people for wheel suitcases of all sizes Cabin size charge €10 return and upwards then as normal for bigger bags, take them at the bag drop.

Only back-packs on the plane.

trellheim

people who take big bags on the plane drive me cuckoo !

There is no guarantee anywhere on Ryanairs site that seats will be adjacent - now I agree and I hate the fact they moved to assigned reservation, just to get some cash out of it ,

BUT you can pay to solve the problem .... ?

martinsvi

trellheim wrote: »

BUT you can pay to solve the problem .... ?

not necessarily, on my last flight there was someone else sitting in my seat - an older couple decided they can sit wherever they want.. given their age, I didn't want to cause any fuss and moved promptly to a seat where the gentleman was originally supposed to be seated. There were some 2 other incidents on the same flight with one side of the argument being - I'm entitled to sit with my mate - and the other one being - but I paid for that seat!

I agree that this is nonsense and is slowing things down a lot, I don't expect this to last

plodder

Apparently, they've had a policy for a while that you must pay for assigned seating when traveling with children (not sure the age cut-off). So, this is the logical extension of that. Basically break up adult groups unless they pay to sit together. This was discussed here before and I was going to post a comment along the lines of - next thing they'll be charging for ... xx! .. except I wouldn't want to be giving them any ideas.

SNNUS

AzcuzCoz wrote: »

I think this is to be somewhat expected. RYR are a low-frills carrier, and therefore implement low-frills policies. I have always expected that they'll be charging €1 to use the toilets next!

Never heard that before ..

HeidiHeidi

There are three of us flying in the morning. Two booked together, I booked separately.

The other two checked in today, got seats together free gratis and for nothing. They hadn't heard of this new "policy" so didn't pull any tricks (if you even can pull any tricks)

I just checked in about an hour ago and got a window seat (yay!)

So it's not across the board it would seem.

Tenger

Its very easy to jump on the bandwagon with a story about Ryanair and shout "scam" But there are a limited number of seats on the plane (189 in fact) So just like going to the cinema on opening night of a big film, if a large portion of the other passengers pre-select seats then you will be left with little or no choice on where you get to seat yourself.
If the flight is full you will not be guaranteed getting a seat beside your mate. We are now in the busy summer travel period. (I dont think FR really have much of a low season with their very focused fleet/load/fare mgmt system in place) And obviously single travellers will select windows and aisles first so middle seats are left. So if their are 10-15 empty seats on a flight I bet they will be middle or aisle seats. (couples like to take the window and middle!)

I got sent some images today of a range of recent FR booked loads. I cant tell you who sent them or what day they were from but have a look at the number to the very right of the image. It shows the total number of booked on each sector, all I see are numbers over 160, with >189 showing quite often.
(Meaning that yes, Ryanair overbook their aircraft)

Tenger

A couple more images to prove that Ryanair overbook their flights:

trellheim

Jaysus that Liverpool flight in the first one must have been the Calcutta express... 200.... where did they stuff em lol

jjbrien

trellheim wrote: »

Jaysus that Liverpool flight in the first one must have been the Calcutta express... 200.... where did they stuff em lol

Was looking at that too and Manchester and then Glasgow I thought FR didn't oversell.

scudzilla

Notice how they've only overbooked UK flights, those flights with quite a few a day to the destinations, if the full load turns up then just bump them to next flight. Clever

HeidiHeidi

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

There are three of us flying in the morning. Two booked together, I booked separately.

The other two checked in today, got seats together free gratis and for nothing. They hadn't heard of this new "policy" so didn't pull any tricks (if you even can pull any tricks)

I just checked in about an hour ago and got a window seat (yay!)

So it's not across the board it would seem.

I was misled - they're not seated together after all!!

As you were.

cee_jay

martinsvi wrote: »

not necessarily, on my last flight there was someone else sitting in my seat - an older couple decided they can sit wherever they want.. given their age, I didn't want to cause any fuss and moved promptly to a seat where the gentleman was originally supposed to be seated. There were some 2 other incidents on the same flight with one side of the argument being - I'm entitled to sit with my mate - and the other one being - but I paid for that seat!

I agree that this is nonsense and is slowing things down a lot, I don't expect this to last

Why given their age?
They wouldn't be left standing! They had assigned seats, just like everyone else on the plane. I would have no hesitation in insisting on sitting in my assigned seat. Otherwise what's the point of assigned seating? It just slows everything up for everyone else with all the swapping and rearranging otherwise.

frag420

cee_jay wrote: »

Why given their age?
They wouldn't be left standing! They had assigned seats, just like everyone else on the plane. I would have no hesitation in insisting on sitting in my assigned seat. Otherwise what's the point of assigned seating? It just slows everything up for everyone else with all the swapping and rearranging otherwise.

Completely agree. If I pay for a seat then I expect to be sitting in it!! Would have no hesitation asking the flight staff to move the person.

Tenger

cee_jay wrote: »

Why given their age?
They wouldn't be left standing! They had assigned seats, just like everyone else on the plane. I would have no hesitation in insisting on sitting in my assigned seat. Otherwise what's the point of assigned seating? It just slows everything up for everyone else with all the swapping and rearranging otherwise.

frag420 wrote: »

Completely agree. If I pay for a seat then I expect to be sitting in it!! Would have no hesitation asking the flight staff to move the person.

Martinsvi was being polite to an elderly couple who HAD aasigned seats that were not beside each other. He didnt ask the flight staff to move the person, as he was on his own he just took the seat that the elderly gent had been assigned so they could sit together. Arguing the point would have slowed the process up.

Its these little acts of kindness that help us as a society to get along, rather than this ever growing "this is my right" mentality.

frag420

Tenger wrote: »

Martinsvi was being polite to an elderly couple who HAD aasigned seats that were not beside each other. He didnt ask the flight staff to move the person, as he was on his own he just took the seat that the elderly gent had been assigned so they could sit together. Arguing the point would have slowed the process up.

Its these little acts of kindness that help us as a society to get along, rather than this ever growing "this is my right" mentality.

Its these ideas that because someone is old that we should bend over backwards for them and accommodate their every whim!?
I am no anti old person person but if they have the knowledge and know how to book a flight then they should know how to reserve two seats beside one another!! Its these little acts of cop on that help planes board faster and people get to their destination on time!

I reserve a specific seat and purchase priority boarding so that I can guarantee that I can have my bag above my seat and I can get of the plane quickly.

cee_jay

Tenger wrote: »

Its these little acts of kindness that help us as a society to get along, rather than this ever growing "this is my right" mentality.

The couple had "this is my right" mentality.
If I have paid for my seats, why should I suffer a loss because someone else has a "this is my right" mentality?
As frag pointed out, sitting in your assigned seat makes the boarding process faster and more efficient. You have the opportunity to pay for a seat if you do not get seats assigned together.

The Niece

jjbrien wrote: »

Happend to me 3 weeks ago we did the free check in and they put us in 2 aisle seats one in front of the other. Happened to lots of people on the plane and there was a lot of seat swapping going on due to it and made boarding much slower.

Was on a flight yesterday with the exact same thing...out of the 10 people sitting in two rows, 8 were couples who were sat in front of each other. Lots of seat swapping throughout the plane and it did slow things down

martinsvi

cee_jay wrote: »

Why given their age?
They wouldn't be left standing! They had assigned seats, just like everyone else on the plane. I would have no hesitation in insisting on sitting in my assigned seat. Otherwise what's the point of assigned seating? It just slows everything up for everyone else with all the swapping and rearranging otherwise.

if you have elderly parents you would notice that as the time goes by, getting them through the airport gets harder and harder as the time goes by. Suddenly things they were never afraid before suddenly causes them fear, simple tasks become difficult. Even getting in and out of a seat is not exactly an easy task. This couple was just like that, it looked like they found much needed comfort in each others company and I had absolutely no issue with letting them having it. All I did was checked their boarding passes to make sure that the seat I'm taking is indeed the gents seat and at least 3 people walked away from the situation perfectly happy. Not all fights are worth fighting

martinsvi

Tenger wrote: »

(Meaning that yes, Ryanair overbook their aircraft)

are you sure it's overbooking and not people traveling with infants?

ahbell

martinsvi wrote: »

if you have elderly parents you would notice that as the time goes by, getting them through the airport gets harder and harder as the time goes by. Suddenly things they were never afraid before suddenly causes them fear, simple tasks become difficult. Even getting in and out of a seat is not exactly an easy task. This couple was just like that, it looked like they found much needed comfort in each others company and I had absolutely no issue with letting them having it. All I did was checked their boarding passes to make sure that the seat I'm taking is indeed the gents seat and at least 3 people walked away from the situation perfectly happy. Not all fights are worth fighting

Good on you

billie1b

martinsvi wrote: »

are you sure it's overbooking and not people traveling with infants?

Infants aren't included in the book load as they don't occupy seats

martinsvi

billie1b wrote: »

Infants aren't included in the book load as they don't occupy seats

I'm just trying to understand what I'm looking at. Display says - "Sold" but it doesn't specify whether those are seats or what. Infants still require a fee for carriage. They do go on loading manifest, so do they nappy bag allowance, if I'm not mistaking, it's 11 kilos (6+5) in total per infant.

Also just in April Ryanair spokesperson, in the wake of United issues, claimed that Ryanair don't overbook. Having been on dozens of packed Ryanair flights, I've never seen anyone being denied boarding. So putting my ones and twos together, I just want to make sure that whatever claim Tenger is making, he can stand by it if the Ryanair lawyer brigade shows up.

ironclaw

@Tenger, you'd want to warn who ever sent those images, assuming they are company confidential, that you can fairly handily work out who they are based on the EXIF data contained in them e.g. Phone, location, time. Wouldn't take much investigator work.

Irish Steve

MY elderly parents, late 80's and early 90's, still travel by air occasionally, though they prefer to come from the UK by train and ferry, simply because they find things like airport security, getting to the gate, the luggage restrictions and the rugby scrum at the gate increasingly intolerable, and getting up the front air stairs on a 737 is not exactly easy for my mother, she's far from immobile, but the stairs are not a nice experience.

They've been using Ryanair for years, and I know that if they book a flight now, it won't even enter their heads that when they check in on line, the system won't seat them together, and I also know that if they are not together, my mother will possibly have an anxiety attack, she wouldn't go near aircraft for over 20 years after a flight crashed near Bristol over 40 years ago.

So, I will now have to tell them to either pay extra to sit together, or tolerate a poor policy decision by a bean counter at Ryanair. The likely outcome is that they will just choose not to fly, and I wonder how many other people will make the same decision. This latest twist strikes me as a very mean spirited and nasty move that will probably do more harm than good in terms of customer relations, and in terms of confusion and disruption on the aircraft.

billie1b

martinsvi wrote: »

I'm just trying to understand what I'm looking at. Display says - "Sold" but it doesn't specify whether those are seats or what. Infants still require a fee for carriage. They do go on loading manifest, so do they nappy bag allowance, if I'm not mistaking, it's 11 kilos (6+5) in total per infant.

Also just in April Ryanair spokesperson, in the wake of United issues, claimed that Ryanair don't overbook. Having been on dozens of packed Ryanair flights, I've never seen anyone being denied boarding. So putting my ones and twos together, I just want to make sure that whatever claim Tenger is making, he can stand by it if the Ryanair lawyer brigade shows up.

Infants are included on the Ryanair manifest but not on the sold seats, sold seats are for pax occupying seats which infants do not, also there is no allowance on a Ryanair loadsheet for an infant, they are included weightless.

martinsvi

billie1b wrote: »

Infants are included on the Ryanair manifest but not on the sold seats, sold seats are for pax occupying seats which infants do not, also there is no allowance on a Ryanair loadsheet for an infant, they are included weightless.

fair enough, looks like you know your stuff. Assuming the claim is true - I wonder have they started overbooking just recently or have they just been incredibly lucky with just the right amount of people not showing up? Given the scale of Ryanair's ops, I doubt it's luck

billie1b

martinsvi wrote: »

fair enough, looks like you know your stuff. Assuming the claim is true - I wonder have they started overbooking just recently or have they just been incredibly lucky with just the right amount of people not showing up? Given the scale of Ryanair's ops, I doubt it's luck

If it helps put you at ease, I have been a dispatcher with Ryanair 15 years now, the over booking came in about 2 years ago, you very rarely have problems with it as you're nearly guaranteed a 10% no show on most of the flights that are overbooked. It happens when seats first go on sale for €10 and people buy them up but then don't show up as they can't get time of work or something else came up, to them it's only €10 wasted

markpb

billie1b wrote: »

If it helps put you at ease, I have been a dispatcher with Ryanair 15 years now, the over booking came in about 2 years ago, you very rarely have problems with it as you're nearly guaranteed a 10% no show on most of the flights that are overbooked. It happens when seats first go on sale for €10 and people buy them up but then don't show up as they can't get time of work or something else came up, to them it's only €10 wasted

Do you think Ryanair overbook less aggressively than American operators? Almost any time I've flown in/to America, I've seen them ask for volunteers to be bumped.

The_Chap

It's a fecking joke now, just checked in as a couple allocated two middle seats in different rows, went to change seats and all window and aisle seats taken apart from 3 rows at the back completely free, so they mustn't be putting anyone together now to gouge more money from you
They'll change their tune once they realise it will cause chaos with people swapping around before takeoff
Loads of middle seats free, what is that about

billie1b

markpb wrote: »

Do you think Ryanair overbook less aggressively than American operators? Almost any time I've flown in/to America, I've seen them ask for volunteers to be bumped.

A lot less aggressively

Radio5

So if you pay the extra money, when you come to check in on-line you will get boarding details for those exact seats ?

Blut2

From a revenue generation point of view I can see why this has been implemented; it will definitely encourage more people to reserve seats.

But as mentioned above, I do wonder how much delays caused by ongoing games of musical chairs at boarding will end up costing. That plus the extremely bad PR from this could end up making it fairly costly.

plodder

Irish Times: Ryanair denies deliberately separating passengers to make money

The headline doesn't seem to be supported by the article. There's no denial that I can see.

The_Chap

plodder wrote: »

Irish Times: Ryanair denies deliberately separating passengers to make money

The headline doesn't seem to be supported by the article. There's no denial that I can see.

Of course it's exactly what they are doing

trellheim

As with all ancillary revenue stuff as on the face of it it sounds like an earner.

That said


If you start impacting on turnaround times this will get binned real quick as utilization of those aircraft in some cases is quite tight, so if people are slowing down to sort seats out you can be sure it will get attention.

Simon Gruber Says

If it's causing delays they can easily adopt a policy that all passengers must be in their assigned seats for take off. May already be in place, just needs to be enforced. You can then sort out swaps after the seat belt sign is off.

Radio5

More people are flying with us so there are less seats to go around? That seems to be what they are saying.......

plodder

Radio5 wrote: »

More people are flying with us so there are less seats to go around? That seems to be what they are saying.......

If more people are pre-booking it might make sense, but not more people flying generally. I've been on plenty of Ryanair flights that were full, but I got seats together "randomly" allocated. I think posters have claimed they went on-line to see if many seats were pre-booked, and that appeared not to be the case.

Masala

plodder wrote: »

Irish Times: Ryanair denies deliberately separating passengers to make money

The headline doesn't seem to be supported by the article. There's no denial that I can see.

hahaha.... what a PR machine they are!!! Squirmed out of that nicely with a 'there is less seats to allocate freely' blah blah.

IngazZagni

In regards to Tengers post, those numbers would also include staff and duty standby travel so they can be added on top of the 189 seats for sale. There's almost always a high number of no shows on UK flights anyway.

As for Ryanairs response to the Irish Times. It makes me angry. They have flat out lied to us. Do they think we are that stupid? The terms may not have changed but the system certainly has. It is an obvious ploy to increase ancillary revenue. "Always getting better" has come to a shuddering hault and is now in reverse.

billie1b

IngazZagni wrote: »

In regards to Tengers post, those numbers would also include staff and duty standby travel so they can be added on top of the 189 seats for sale. There's almost always a high number of no shows on UK flights anyway.

As for Ryanairs response to the Irish Times. It makes me angry. They have flat out lied to us. Do they think we are that stupid? The terms may not have changed but the system certainly has. It is an obvious ploy to increase ancillary revenue. "Always getting better" has come to a shuddering hault and is now in reverse.

Incorrect, staff and duty travel are included on the standby list, which is not the revenue seats sold list. The only staff travel included on the revenue seats is PRIV travel and thats very rare as they have private jets now.

embraer170

billie1b wrote: »

martinsvi wrote: »

fair enough, looks like you know your stuff. Assuming the claim is true - I wonder have they started overbooking just recently or have they just been incredibly lucky with just the right amount of people not showing up? Given the scale of Ryanair's ops, I doubt it's luck

If it helps put you at ease, I have been a dispatcher with Ryanair 15 years now, the over booking came in about 2 years ago, you very rarely have problems with it as you're nearly guaranteed a 10% no show on most of the flights that are overbooked. It happens when seats first go on sale for €10 and people buy them up but then don't show up as they can't get time of work or something else came up, to them it's only €10 wasted

On the rare occasions, how does Ryanair deal when more than 189 people try to checkin?

Do the last people to checkin get asked to show up at the airport desk or is a boarding card issued without a seat number?

ninebeanrows

They are also attempting to enforce this...

I was asked impolitely on a recent flight sitting in a row near the back of the plane beside my girlfriend whether that was my allocated seat -

They obviously were surprised to see two people who wanted to be seating next to each other actually sitting there!

----Also as i'm an unsocial troglodyte- I had worked out on the previous algorithm where to buy a seat that resulted in you getting a full row to yourself on 90% of flights - this has now changed