My new direct report to be paid €20k more than me

MerrionPippin

What would your reaction to this be?

I work in the finance industry in a technical role using systems that aren't widely used, so it's very hard to find staff.

Up until recently, there were 2 people on our team involved with maintaining this system. It was me, reporting into another guy. He left, so I'm currently the only one left on the technical team.

Rather than me stepping up to his role and a replacement being sought for me, it's been decided that I will stay at my current level and a new employee will be hired who will report into me.

The kicker is that the salary on offer is being advertised at a rate of €20k per annum more than I earn, with the possibility of more than that depending on experience.

Now, you're going to have to take my word for it here - but there isn't anyone out there with as much experience as I have (apart from the guy who just left and our department head). Anyone else coming in will likely have worked on similar systems but not our exact one. I'm very good at what I do, but the main reason I say that they won't find anyone is that it's just a very niche system that our company owns, and very few competitors use it. Those that do, all have offshore teams to support them so they would only use the front end interface and wouldn't be involved with any of the "under the hood" work, so to speak.

How would you feel in such a scenario? Do you just grin and bare it as market conditions dictate that a high salary has to be offered? Or do you resent the fact that you have all the skills they are looking for but are being paid significantly less than who you would eventually be managing?

My concern here is that I wish I could rise above this and see the bigger picture, but I can't. I'm very annoyed after finding this out and feel undervalued, and I'm worried that when we do hire someone, I will end up resenting the person who I am supposed to be managing. I can't help feeling this way.

Looking for some advice, either experience-based or just how others would feel in a similar scenario. Thanks.

Dont be at yourself

Ask for a raise. If the company want to keep you, they'll give you one.

Atlantic Dawn

How easy would it be for you to get a similar role elsewhere for the same or more money than you are on now?

bobbysands81

MerrionPippin wrote: »

The kicker is that the salary on offer is being advertised at a rate of €20k per annum more than I earn, with the possibility of more than that depending on experience.

Apply for the job.

TheShow

Apply for the position being advertised

judeboy101

Ask for raise point to 20k differential if none forthcoming bite your tongue and plan your exit

mikeybrennan

Leave the anger aside

Can you also walk into a similar job elsewhere ?

And can you be replaced easily

helimachoptor

yeah if you can walk into another job, then ask for a raise but plan your exit.

However, be prepared for HR to say "it costs more to attract candidates externally etc etc" so you may get a rise but likely not anywhere near the 20K.

MerrionPippin

Dont be at yourself wrote:

Ask for a raise. If the company want to keep you, they'll give you one.

I was recently given a raise back in March as part of annual payrises/bonuses. It was a pretty poor figure, and I raised my disappointment at it and lobbied for more. It was a struggle but I got a better figure in the end.

While I was content at the time, it's only now I've seen how much of a price they do put in on this experience. I'm worried that if I go looking for a payrise again I'll be seen as disruptive or only motivated by money (which, to be fair, is my main motivation for working).

Atlantic Dawn wrote:

How easy would it be for you to get a similar role elsewhere for the same or more money than you are on now?

I'd struggle to find this specific role elsewhere (i.e. the technical role). But I have plenty of experience on the client service side (I actually have more experience in that side than anyone on our dedicated client service team) so I know I could find another job elsewhere for similar or more money - albeit not the technical role that I enjoy more.

bobbysands wrote:

Apply for the job.

The Show wrote:

Apply for the position being advertised

Internal applicants don't get the salary that is being offered to external applicants. It's a figure that is designed to entice them away from their current company and give up any benefits they've accrued, so that figure wouldn't be offered to me if I applied internally.

The job being advertised has the exact same title as mine so I don't know if I even can apply for it seeing as technically, I already have that job. I've been told that even though they'll be coming in with the same title as me, I will be their manager and they will be reporting into me.

judeboy101 wrote:

Ask for raise point to 20k differential if none forthcoming bite your tongue and plan your exit

Ultimately this is where I think I am with things. I just wanted to gauge opinion to see if I was being entitled or greedy.

Are there any employers here, and if so, what would you think of an employee feeling how I feel right now?

I don't want this to be one of those threads where the OP is looking for a specific answer to make themself feel better, so I'm open to all criticisms - constructive or otherwise

Thanks for the replies so far.

gctest50

MerrionPippin wrote: »

...........
Now, you're going to have to take my word for it here - but there isn't anyone out there with as much experience as I have ...........

They're paying him more maybe because they are going replacing the system

DeanAustin

MerrionPippin wrote: »

I was recently given a raise back in March as part of annual payrises/bonuses. It was a pretty poor figure, and I raised my disappointment at it and lobbied for more. It was a struggle but I got a better figure in the end.

While I was content at the time, it's only now I've seen how much of a price they do put in on this experience. I'm worried that if I go looking for a payrise again I'll be seen as disruptive or only motivated by money (which, to be fair, is my main motivation for working).



I'd struggle to find this specific role elsewhere (i.e. the technical role). But I have plenty of experience on the client service side (I actually have more experience in that side than anyone on our dedicated client service team) so I know I could find another job elsewhere for similar or more money - albeit not the technical role that I enjoy more.




Internal applicants don't get the salary that is being offered to external applicants. It's a figure that is designed to entice them away from their current company and give up any benefits they've accrued, so that figure wouldn't be offered to me if I applied internally.

The job being advertised has the exact same title as mine so I don't know if I even can apply for it seeing as technically, I already have that job. I've been told that even though they'll be coming in with the same title as me, I will be their manager and they will be reporting into me.



Ultimately this is where I think I am with things. I just wanted to gauge opinion to see if I was being entitled or greedy.

Are there any employers here, and if so, what would you think of an employee feeling how I feel right now?

I don't want this to be one of those threads where the OP is looking for a specific answer to make themself feel better, so I'm open to all criticisms - constructive or otherwise

Thanks for the replies so far.

You've a right to feel hard done by. Everyone would feel similarly. I once had a similar situation but the person had been with the company a long time.

Your company are being a bit short sighted by saying "we have to offer more to an external candidate". Any idiot can see that you'll resent this and probably leave or become demotivated. They may save a few quid in the short term but they're creating problems for themselves down the line. Sadly, that's often how companies behave.

eurokev

I'd be fairly peed. Really bad/stupid move by the company if what you say is all correct

Dont be at yourself

If your job is as niche and difficult to fill as it seems, then you have a lot of leverage. Tell them you want to be paid the market rate, and be prepared to leave if they don't budge.

Been through it before and my employer obliged, even with a strict internal salary structure.

strandroad

MerrionPippin wrote: »

I've been told that even though they'll be coming in with the same title as me, I will be their manager and they will be reporting into me.

They are making you a manager, that's a different grade and responsibility. You are entitled to negotiate your role and salary to match your new level.
Why would you agree to manage employees without a promotion?

mikeybrennan

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

If your job is as niche and difficult to fill as it seems, then you have a lot of leverage. Tell them you want to be paid the market rate, and be prepared to leave if they don't budge.

Been through it before and my employer obliged, even with a strict internal salary structure.

He can only do that if he can walk into another position himself

listermint

mhge wrote: »

They are making you a manager, that's a different grade and responsibility. You are entitled to negotiate your role and salary to match your new level.
Why would you agree to manage employees without a promotion?

This .

MerrionPippin

Mikey Brennan wrote:

Leave the anger aside

Can you also walk into a similar job elsewhere ?

And can you be replaced easily

Your first question - I'm confident I could get another job elsewhere with my overall experience, though my technical experience might not count for much. But I have plenty of the client-facing experience.

Your second question - no. Not at all. As a matter of fact, we'd be in a LOT of trouble if I left.

helimachopter wrote:

yeah if you can walk into another job, then ask for a raise but plan your exit.

However, be prepared for HR to say "it costs more to attract candidates externally etc etc" so you may get a rise but likely not anywhere near the 20K.

This is probably how things will pay out - but I don't know about the second part.

What I've neglected to mention is that when I got my annual payrise and successfully petitioned for more back in March, part of the reason that petition was successful was because I told them I was prepared to, and actually did, hand in my notice citing salary as a main cause.

I can easily see that now they'll think I'm someone who threatens to throw his toys out of the pram and quit every time I want more money, regardless if I have a case or not.

gctest50 wrote:

They're paying him more maybe because they are going replacing the system

That's not the case, for a few reasons. The job spec is heavily tailored around our current systems. We're upgrading to a new version of it soon, but the language and principles are still the same. It'll just have additional features and so on. Its also our own internal system that we wouldn't move away from. I'm on all the governance calls for it for all our global locations, it's not going anywhere.

mhge wrote:

They are making you a manager, that's a different grade and responsibility. You are entitled to negotiate your role and salary to match your new level.
Why would you agree to manage employees without a promotion?

My job spec currently dictates that I will be responsible for direct reports, it just so happens that we haven't had any until now. So it's not a new responsibility per my job description.

I guess another thing I find odd is that the role is being advertised as "reporting into the role X". I am not the role X - we don't actually have one. He's the other guy who was on the team who left. It's just me now. But there are no plans to promote me to role X, not for another year at least.

And even if I did get that promotion, the standard payrise for promotions here is around 7-10%, I'd still be on way, way less than the person I manage!

doolox

Some bosses like to ascribe base motives to people who seek proper pay for proper work. It allows them to get away with paying less to people with poor self esteem and poor negotiating skills.

Every job holder should spend a certain amount of his valuable time in self promotion, negotiation and accounting for his worth to an organisation.

If this means seeking outside help and training it is a good investment.

You also may find that your opinion of your worth to a company and your actual performance may fall short in a way that allows your company to think they can get away with paying your junior 20k more than you and get you to manage him for free.

You need to seek external objective and unbiased advice about your career and your future plans.

mikeybrennan

Well if they're in a lot of trouble if you leave

You have plenty of bargaining power and should be able to negotiate a substantial raise

Would I be correct in saying that you wouldn't get the same salary you're currently on, elsewhere?

Also, your work now, as a Manager, is different to just what this person will be doing. If I were you, I'd look to increase my own transferrable skills and knowledge and pay less attention to what others around me are earning.

It sounds like you may need to put some time into upskilling yourself for the next stage of your career. You've had a good innings with the legacy systems that have made you somewhat "indispensable" but that won't last forever.

MerrionPippin

Deleted User wrote: »

Would I be correct in saying that you wouldn't get the same salary you're currently on, elsewhere?

I'd be very confident I could match my current salary, and most likely improve it.

Deleted User wrote:

Also, your work now, as a Manager, is different to just what this person will be doing. If I were you, I'd look to increase my own transferrable skills and knowledge and pay less attention to what others around me are earning.

It's not very different actually. I do a lot of management of our offshore team - assigning work for them, reviewing their work, performance appraisals, training. The only difference is that this new hire would be in the same location.

I'm not at all worried about my skills and knowledge. They are plenty transferable as it is. And while I'd love to take your "pay less attention to others' salary" advice on board, it's very hard to actually do that in practice.

Deleted User wrote:

It sounds like you may need to put some time into upskilling yourself for the next stage of your career. You've had a good innings with the legacy systems that have made you somewhat "indispensable" but that won't last forever.

Well that's the thing. If the systems work goes down the swanny, I still have plenty of regulatory and client service experience. My role is not 100% technical. I do a lot of filling in for our client service team as the experience just isn't there, and I'm often called upon to help out when they're in a bind.

strandroad

So you're effectively a manager, but a non-manager comes under you and they offer them 20k more? Sounds like there really is no renumeration system in place.
You can go back and negotiate hard, you have a good hand, but really it looks like it would be better for you to move on and develop your career elsewhere. You can't keep having these battles every year, in a good company expectations and levels are managed in a much fairer way.

MerrionPippin

MerrionPippin wrote: »

I'd be very confident I could match my current salary, and most likely improve it.

It's not very different actually. I do a lot of management of our offshore team - assigning work for them, reviewing their work, performance appraisals, training. The only difference is that this new hire would be in the same location.

I'm not at all worried about my skills and knowledge. They are plenty transferable as it is. And while I'd love to take your "pay less attention to others' salary" advice on board, it's very hard to actually do that in practice.


Well that's the thing. If the systems work goes down the swanny, I still have plenty of regulatory and client service experience. My role is not 100% technical. I do a lot of filling in for our client service team as the experience just isn't there, and I'm often called upon to help out when they're in a bind.

I'd expect your role to be far from 100% technical, if you're now a Manager.
And as such, it's quite possible you'll be paid less than the person reporting in to you, if their skills are in high demand/short supply.

You're on a different career path in management than you are in technical skills. Maybe this is a crossroads for you- technical specialist or manager? Regulatory and client service skills and knowledge may be more common out there than the technical skills you're referring to, which equates to a lower salary too.

If money is the issue here, then I'd do as the early poster said and go for the technical role being advertised. But as manager, get used to people with skills in demand getting paid more than you- it's not that uncommon.

strandroad

They sound like a tech lead with some business crossover, it's not uncommon. They are now getting a tech subordinate.

kaymin

Personally I wouldn't accept this situation and your employer, when push comes to shove, will at least match the salary now being offered. It makes no sense to do otherwise - there's no certainty they will find a suitable candidate, they will incur recruitment fees, training costs, risk of hiring a poor performer, time to get up to speed etc

This advice relies on your employer being logical - no guarantee of that though!

beauf

Go where you get the most money.

They are pretty much giving you that message.

JackieChan

Do you know if the company tried hard to keep your colleague that left?
That would give me an indication of what the company really think of your role.

Bob24

Being paid less than a direct report is not necessarily a crazy thing if that person is highly technical and in very high demand while the manager is a more generic role and can be easily replaced.

But yeah if you are at least or more qualified for the job than that person but the company is OK with both giving you more responsabilities and paying you less - yes I'd definitely be pissed-off.

cml387

Most companies find it easier to hire in at a higher rate than give raises to existing staff, particularly in technical roles.
It's unfair but that's life.
If you are happy in your current role and, as you say, you were originally happy with your raise then I'd suck it up.

Of course your underling is going to have to be a really star performer to justify his salary, and if he's in your team he'll make you look good too.

Squatman

The new guy is reporting into you now so that you will train him up on systems, job and other items. They are paying him more because when he is trained up, he will become your manager. He doesnt have the title yet, as they dont want you training your manager. All companies prefer outsiders coming into the company over established known workers. Now is the ideal time to threaten to move, as there will be nobody left to train the new guy up.
you should seek some or all of the following;
more money,
more holidays,
working from home/flexi time
Employee share purchase options, or increased bonus. some of these things can be approved by the stroke of a pen. Goodluck in any case

stateofflux

mhge wrote: »

They are making you a manager, that's a different grade and responsibility. You are entitled to negotiate your role and salary to match your new level.
Why would you agree to manage employees without a promotion?

I agree with this.

But I would not mention the job advertised .

Bosses tend to get their back up when people compare salaries to other people / positions, in their head its none of your business.

Pterosaur

If your going to be their manager you should be on €20k more, not less.

mrslancaster

MerrionPippin wrote: »

My job spec currently dictates that I will be responsible for direct reports, it just so happens that we haven't had any until now. So it's not a new responsibility per my job description.

I guess another thing I find odd is that the role is being advertised as "reporting into the role X". I am not the role X - we don't actually have one. He's the other guy who was on the team who left. It's just me now. But there are no plans to promote me to role X, not for another year at least.

did they actually say you'd be promoted into role X within the next year?

if your job spec says you will be responsible for direct reports it seems company have covered themselves although its a pretty shoddy thing to pay new person €20k more especially if you are expected to do training

livedadream

This sounds stupid but are you sure the new person isn't just reporting into you to start with and that their not taking the manager role eventually?
It's not showing much faith that you didn't get promoted....

368100

This is typical of financial services at the minute. I was in a similar situation last year where people with less experience were being brought in at same level as me but on 15k+ more and who weren't performing at near the same level as me.

I asked for payrise, would have been happy to settle for an extra 8k....but no go. They have a policy where they'll pay decent salaries for external candidates but won't give a cent to existing staff as they're "cutting costs". No logic to it.

I ended up applying for a role with a competitive and got offered 30k extra.....it was a tough decision to leave but I couldn't ignore that kind of offer.

In since start of year and love it....no regrets