Tinder Rape Case

Roger Hassenforder

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2017/0602/879894-tinder-trial/

So your man was acquitted.

From what details have come of it, to me it didn't look too sound a case.
If she was raped, she truly has my sympathies, but the girl lied in statements to Gardai, and was back online the next day, hardly something she admitted a rape victim would do.
An unpleasant sexual encounter at worst, retrospectively and wrongly regarded as rape though.


Thoughts?

srsly78

The victim didn't even complain to Gardai I read, it was her friend?

LLMMLL

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2017/0602/879894-tinder-trial/

So your man was acquitted.

From what details have come of it, to me it didn't look too sound a case.
If she was raped, she truly has my sympathies, but the girl lied in statements to Gardai, and was back online the next day, hardly something she admitted a rape victim would do.
An unpleasant sexual encounter at worst, retrospectively and wrongly regarded as rape though.


Thoughts?

I don't get the need for people not involved in a Case to support one side or the other.

You've no idea whether she was raped, constructed the entire thing, or somewhere in between.

MonkieSocks

probably make a Netflicks thing outta this,

"Love Me Tinder"

Roger Hassenforder

LLMMLL wrote: »

I don't get the need for people not involved in a Case to support one side or the other.

You've no idea whether she was raped, constructed the entire thing, or somewhere in between.

I'm not "supporting" one side of the other, but I don't get the need for people to take it on themselves to deride others on an Internet forum for commenting on a topical case and offering an opinion on the verdict of a case that filled national media for several days.

Junkyard Tom

It's pretty frightening. Without the digital 'paper' trail that guy might have ended up in jail and on the sex offenders register.

WHIP IT!

LLMMLL wrote: »

I don't get the need for people not involved in a Case to support one side or the other.

You've no idea whether she was raped, constructed the entire thing, or somewhere in between.

Really? No idea? The accused was found not guilty in fairness.

Beta Ray Bill

I'm gonna say it...

It's gonna get me in touble, but I think this thread deserves it...

"She was on Tinder? Ah sure she was asking for it"


In truth the the story was full of holes, It's strange it even made it to trial given that she was on Tinder the next day "liking" more guys.
She clearly didn't think all her phone data would be cross examined and pulled apart in court.

xzanti

WHIP IT! wrote: »

Really? No idea? The accused was found not guilty in fairness.

So was OJ.

WHIP IT!

xzanti wrote: »

So was OJ.

So, by your rationale, everyone found Not Guilty is in fact.... Guilty??

Digital Solitude

xzanti wrote: »

So was OJ.

I don't get the need for people not involved in a Case to support one side or the other.

You've no idea whether he killed her, constructed the entire thing, or somewhere in between.

Beta Ray Bill

xzanti wrote: »

So was OJ.

That's very different
That's Black VS White.

Given the evidence he should been found guilty, but the Jury was mostly black... and at the time there was big division between black and white.

greencap

We live in a digital age - its time to start quietly recording any evidence that indicates consent.

Theres lots of cctv out there too. Be seen to lead her by the hand, give her a quick kiss etc.

neonsofa

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

If she was raped, she truly has my sympathies, but the girl lied in statements to Gardai, and was back online the next day, hardly something she admitted a rape victim would do.

Well given the fact that every rape victim is an individual person, with their own feelings, behaviours and flaws, I don't see how anybody can say what "a rape victim would do". People behave in different ways and there is no one way a rape victim should or would behave. Not necessarily a comment on this case, just something I always see online and it's very frustrating to read.

fepper

Heard on one of the news reports I think the defendant roared at Garda? calling them stitch up scumbags!!!.... F????ng c??ts..I'll get ye back..also up on other charges...

Murrisk

One thing that troubled me was that the defence put forward that in messages she indicated that she wanted the encounter to go ahead. I'm sure that is true, but that doesn't mean she didn't change her mind when they met up in person.

Dots1982

"well that was ****" ..he told her after sex. well hold on for the next year or two of your life then Sonny

Roger Hassenforder

neonsofa wrote: »

Well given the fact that every rape victim is an individual person, with their own feelings, behaviours and flaws, I don't see how anybody can say what "a rape victim would do". People behave in different ways and there is no one way a rape victim should or would behave. Not necessarily a comment on this case, just something I always see online and it's very frustrating to read.

Fair enough point ( in general)
But when it's one persons word against another, and one person is found to be lying, I think it's fair to view her subsequent behaviour with suspicion.

neonsofa

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Fair enough point ( in general)
But when it's one persons word against another, and one person is found to be lying, I think it's fair to view her subsequent behaviour with suspicion.

Any lying should obviously be viewed with suspicion, but it should not be viewed as "something a rape victim would not do".

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

It's pretty frightening. Without the digital 'paper' trail that guy might have ended up in jail and on the sex offenders register.

Well no not really, and there's absolutely nothing in the history of the Irish legal system's dealing with rape cases to suggest that. He was acquitted because like a lot of rape cases it comes down to one person's word against another and the burden of proof being what it needs to be, you can't convict somebody on that.

The digital paper trail element in the case is just a brand new modern way to drag a plaintiff through the dirt, not a new thing in rape cases either.

Nor is the "look what she was at afterwards, she wouldn't do that if she was raped" from people who don't have a clue.

Del.Monte

Just illustrates the absolute stupidity of using sites like Tinder and whatever happened to just meeting people in the normal way? Also, she must be the first woman in history to get raped and then go looking for sex again at the first opportunity. :rolleyes:

bucketybuck

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

It's pretty frightening. Without the digital 'paper' trail that guy might have ended up in jail and on the sex offenders register.

There will be many people that will believe he did it anyway.

Instead of believing his story, many people will think that a few small lies from a victim meant a rapist walked free.

You can already see a few comments leaning that way, and such is the damage a rape accusation can do, the accused rarely if ever can lose the taint.

WHIP IT!

Del.Monte wrote: »

Just illustrates the absolute stupidity of using sites like Tinder and whatever happened to just meeting people in the normal way? Also, she must be the first woman in history to get raped and then go looking for sex again at the first opportunity. :rolleyes:

Yep, cos there was no rape - or false allegations of rape - before Smartphones!

Bowlardo

Could he sue for damages?

pjohnson

Mikaela Narrow Lice wrote: »

Well no not really, and there's absolutely nothing in the history of the Irish legal system's dealing with rape cases to suggest that. He was acquitted because like a lot of rape cases it comes down to one person's word against another and the burden of proof being what it needs to be, you can't convict somebody on that.

The digital paper trail element in the case is just a brand new modern way to drag a plaintiff through the dirt, not a new thing in rape cases either.

Nor is the "look what she was at afterwards, she wouldn't do that if she was raped" from people who don't have a clue.

The plaintiff was found to be lying, she wasnt "dragged through the dirt".

Burial.

If she made it up then she should go to jail herself. These fake rape stories are becoming far too common and are destroying the lives of innocent people.

Del.Monte

Burial. wrote: »

If she made it up then she should go to jail herself. These fake rape stories are becoming far too common and are destroying the lives of innocent people.

Not to mention putting off genuine victims reporting rape.

xzanti

From her perspective it may well have felt like a rape. From his perspective it may well have felt like consensual sex.

That's just the way it goes sometimes.

In my humble opinion.

I'm guessing they both wish they'd stayed home that night.

pjohnson

Del.Monte wrote: »

Not to mention putting off genuine victims reporting rape.

Rape an undoubtedly serious crime has been completely trivalised recently.

Del.Monte

xzanti wrote: »

From her perspective it may well have felt like a rape. From his perspective it may well have felt like consensual sex.

That's just the way it goes sometimes.

In my humble opinion.

Righty, why did she get back on Tinder so quickly - very weird if you ask me.

neonsofa

Del.Monte wrote: »

Righty, why did she get back on Tinder so quickly - very weird if you ask me.

Its actually not that uncommon for victims of rape (not insinuating that this particular woman is or isn't a victim of rape btw) to become more promiscuous and engage in risky sexual behaviour afterwards. Not that the use of tinder equates to sexual activity.

fullstop

xzanti wrote: »

From her perspective it may well have felt like a rape. From his perspective it may well have felt like consensual sex.

That's just the way it goes sometimes.

She's a liar, that's pretty clear from reading the details of what was said by her, her housemate and the defendant in court. How it took 3 years to get to court is also beyond me.

xzanti

Del.Monte wrote: »

Righty, why did she get back on Tinder so quickly - very weird if you ask me.

Who knows. I don't use Tinder so I don't understand it.

Could she have been on it looking at his activity and these conversations popped into her chat window? Could she have been in denial about what allegedly occurred the night before? Could she have made male friends on the site and was reaching out for support?

WHIP IT!

neonsofa wrote: »

Its actually not that uncommon for victims of rape (not insinuating that this particular woman is or isn't a victim of rape btw) to become more promiscuous and engage in risky sexual behaviour afterwards..

Ah but every rape victim is different, with human emotions and different ways of dealing with things... so, is your original point moot - or your latest point moot?

Neonsofa
Well given the fact that every rape victim is an individual person, with their own feelings, behaviours and flaws, I don't see how anybody can say what "a rape victim would do". People behave in different ways and there is no one way a rape victim should or would behave. Not necessarily a comment on this case, just something I always see online and it's very frustrating to read.

Neonsofa
Not that the use of tinder equates to "sexual activity"

Completely agree.

pjohnson

neonsofa wrote: »

Its actually not that uncommon for victims of rape (not insinuating that this particular woman is or isn't a victim of rape btw) to become more promiscuous and engage in risky sexual behaviour afterwards. Not that the use of tinder equates to sexual activity.

The courts judged she was not a victim of a rape. No insinuation. Its a fact that the man was innocent and no rape occured.

retro:electro

I don't buy the whole "if she was genuinely raped then she wouldn't have been on Tinder the next day". The truth is, there is no one way to behave after a rape. People react differently. Some want to shut away the world, and some want to get on with things and pretend it didn't even happen. Saying she didn't act like a rape victim *should* have acted, is not befitting because people are complex and there's no one reaction.

We don't know whether she was genuinely raped, or whether she had sex and later regretted it. (Well if we are to have faith in our system, then she wasn't)
The fact she had been sending sexually loaded texts to the guy before they met isn't binding and doesn't mean she can't change her mind. Maybe she didn't like him when she met him. There was a lot of extraneous information here that the case seemed to hinge upon.
You can still be raped subsequent to being sexually flirtatious with someone.

neonsofa

WHIP IT! wrote: »

Ah but every rape victim is different, with human emotions and different ways of dealing with things... so, is your original point moot - or your latest point moot?





Completely agree.

"Not that uncommon" does not mean they all act that same way. But you know that.

fullstop

xzanti wrote: »

Who knows. I don't use Tinder so I don't understand it.

Could she have been on it looking at his activity and these conversations popped into her chat window? Could she have been in denial about what allegedly occurred the night before? Could she have made male friends on the site and was reaching out for support?

Well the court reports state that she was back on tinder "talking about her naughty side" the next morning, so hardly reaching out for support.

WHIP IT!

neonsofa wrote: »

"Not that uncommon" does not mean they all act that same way. But you know that.

Your posts completely contradict each other.

But you know that.

neonsofa

pjohnson wrote: »

The courts judged she was not a victim of a rape. No insinuation. Its a fact that the man was innocent and no rape occured.

I was referring to what could be misconstrued by others as my own insinuations. And therefore made it clear I personally was making no such insinuations. It's right there in the post you quoted. Have a read of it.

jigglypuffstuff

Wave of angry third wave feminist comments followed by Louise O Neill outrage in T Minus 10 seconds

10....

neonsofa

WHIP IT! wrote: »

Your posts completely contradict each other.

But you know that.

They are there for everybody to read in plain English. They don't contradict each other. Everybody behaves differently, there is no one way a person should or would behave. Many can exhibit certain behaviours afterwards. That does not mean they should or definitely would behave in said way. It's actually very easy to understand.

Persephone kindness

He was found not guilty. Therefore case closed.

It's really not fair to make sweeping generalizations about how rape victims either male nor female act based on the behavior of a woman whom a judge found was not raped.

Nor should it condemn rape victims who do engage in sexual behavior after.

pjohnson

pjohnson wrote: »

Rape an undoubtedly serious crime has been completely trivalised recently.

Thanks to the Una Mullaley/Lousie o Neill and third wave feminist brigade with their "rape culture" nonsense

WHIP IT!

neonsofa wrote: »

They are there for everybody to read in plain English. They don't contradict each other. Everybody behaves differently, there is no one way a person should or would behave. Many can exhibit certain behaviours afterwards. That does not mean they should or definitely would behave in said way. It's actually very easy to understand.

Yes, but you've attempted to further your argument in the first instance by saying "everybody is different, they don't act the same" and in the second instance by saying "well, people often act the same".

When an earlier poster effectively suggested that "many can exhibit certain behaviours afterwards" - you would not accept this as it did not fit your narrative for this particular thread.

pjohnson

Hamza Shaggy Warship wrote: »

Thanks to the Una Mullaley/Lousie o Neill and third wave feminist brigade with their "rape culture" nonsense

Its morons like that that have turned feminism into a parody. They will also be the ones to lead a mob against this innocent man.

Galwayguy35

xzanti wrote: »

From her perspective it may well have felt like a rape. From his perspective it may well have felt like consensual sex.

That's just the way it goes sometimes.

In my humble opinion.

I'm guessing they both wish they'd stayed home that night.

I'd say he does, no doubt some people know who he is and even though he was found guilty some will still view him as a rapist.

I don't blame him for being angry at the guards either.

jigglypuffstuff

Hamza Shaggy Warship wrote: »

Thanks to the Una Mullaley/Lousie o Neill and third wave feminist brigade with their "rape culture" nonsense

pjohnson wrote: »

Its morons like that that have turned feminism into a parody. They will also be the ones to lead a mob against this innocent man.

Rape Culture hahaha that's a laughable phrase I must say

wally1990

fepper wrote: »

Heard on one of the news reports I think the defendant roared at Garda? calling them stitch up scumbags!!!.... F????ng c??ts..I'll get ye back..also up on other charges...

I'm going to assume this is because he was feeling like they treated him like a rapist and wouldn't believe / entertain his side of the story so the anger is left out following the verdict '' just my 2 cent '

neonsofa

WHIP IT! wrote: »

Yes, but you've furthered your argument in the first instance by saying "everybody is different, they don't act the same" and in the second instance by saying "well, people often act the same".

When an earlier posted effectively suggested that "many can exhibit certain behaviours afterwards" - you would not accept this as it did not fit your narrative for this particular thread.

I have no "narrative".

I am saying there are many different ways people may behave as humans (some more common than others) rather than limiting it to a binary choice of how a rape victim "would" or "would not" behave.

It is very simple but if you can't understand it, or deliberately choose not to, I'm not going to waste any more of my time trying to explain it to you.

Pintman Paddy Losty

No smoke without fire.