trapped in a rut

stilllooking

Hi. I'm having some issues in relation to transitioning 'careers'. To give some background, I'm 23, 2 years ago I dropped out of college after failing my second year repeat. My work experience so far is supervising kids summer camps 4 years in a row (only a couple weeks at a time), 2 seasons of kitchen work (kp and then commis chef) and a few odd jobs here and there (retail for a few months in college at weekends, deli counter for a few weeks earlier this year, few relief kitchen bits and pieces) Basically my cv is patchy at best. I recently came to the conclusion that I need to get out of the small rural village I grew up in, there's no future here for me in terms of jobs or even social life, everyone I grew up with has moved away or has plans to. I also really hate kitchen work (the deli job which was my most recent full time role was offered to me in lieu of the retail position I had applied for, and I took only out of desperation) so I made the decision to move. I chose Cork because I know people there so there would be some hope of a social life, as a city there would be better job prospects, and rents wouldn't be as crazy as Dublin. I also decided that I would try to do bar work as it seemed like a job I'd enjoy. I did find some difficulty in getting hired without experience but eventually one place offered me weekend work (8-9 hours a week between 2 nights) and another place offered me a few hours some weeks (usually about 4-6 hours) This was about 6 weeks ago. Unfortunately my problem now is I can't get any more work despite losing the zero experience tag and having 2 bar managers as references to say I'm not a plonker and do actually work hard I've not been getting any interviews, the few interviews I got when first searching yielded nothing. At the moment I'm stuck spending the week in my family home and getting the bus to cork and staying with relatives, the little hours I do get barely pay my bus and few quid to my cousins for keeping me, the €20-€40 a week left over quickly disappears. So bottom line I'm not earning any money, 70% of the time I'm still mooching off my parents living in their house eating their food etc, I don't seem to have hope of any better prospects and I'm still as lonely and as isolated as I would be if I hadn't gotten anything in Cork. It's only a matter of time before what was meant to be a few weeks staying with my cousins while I saved up rent and deposit for my own place will be every weekend for 2 months running, with nothing to show for it, still without full time work, and there's only so much rejections I can take before I just break down. My fear is having to give up and resign myself to soul destroying kitchen work again, as that's the only real experience I have, or having to stay living at home for yet another year. I've even been unsuccessful in finding another retail role, in the hope that I could do that by day and at least have the money to move out of home while looking for full time bar work. What's killing me is I have friends who took up bar work right out of school with no experience and it was seemingly no hindrance to them, and even though I have limited experience the fact that it's not 6 months or 2 years is a barrier. I know when I first started looking I was advised to do a few days for free in a local bar to practice, which I did, but I can't do that for 2 years. I really don't know what to do or even what I can do, tbh I don't even know what responses I expect from this thread, but something has got to give, and soon, I can't keep living like this, but I can't see a viable alternative either. I feel like I've screwed my entire life up by my early 20s and it just seems hopeless.

ros260

stilllooking wrote: »

Hi. I'm having some issues in relation to transitioning 'careers'. To give some background, I'm 23, 2 years ago I dropped out of college after failing my second year repeat. My work experience so far is supervising kids summer camps 4 years in a row (only a couple weeks at a time), 2 seasons of kitchen work (kp and then commis chef) and a few odd jobs here and there (retail for a few months in college at weekends, deli counter for a few weeks earlier this year, few relief kitchen bits and pieces) Basically my cv is patchy at best. I recently came to the conclusion that I need to get out of the small rural village I grew up in, there's no future here for me in terms of jobs or even social life, everyone I grew up with has moved away or has plans to. I also really hate kitchen work (the deli job which was my most recent full time role was offered to me in lieu of the retail position I had applied for, and I took only out of desperation) so I made the decision to move. I chose Cork because I know people there so there would be some hope of a social life, as a city there would be better job prospects, and rents wouldn't be as crazy as Dublin. I also decided that I would try to do bar work as it seemed like a job I'd enjoy. I did find some difficulty in getting hired without experience but eventually one place offered me weekend work (8-9 hours a week between 2 nights) and another place offered me a few hours some weeks (usually about 4-6 hours) This was about 6 weeks ago. Unfortunately my problem now is I can't get any more work despite losing the zero experience tag and having 2 bar managers as references to say I'm not a plonker and do actually work hard I've not been getting any interviews, the few interviews I got when first searching yielded nothing. At the moment I'm stuck spending the week in my family home and getting the bus to cork and staying with relatives, the little hours I do get barely pay my bus and few quid to my cousins for keeping me, the €20-€40 a week left over quickly disappears. So bottom line I'm not earning any money, 70% of the time I'm still mooching off my parents living in their house eating their food etc, I don't seem to have hope of any better prospects and I'm still as lonely and as isolated as I would be if I hadn't gotten anything in Cork. It's only a matter of time before what was meant to be a few weeks staying with my cousins while I saved up rent and deposit for my own place will be every weekend for 2 months running, with nothing to show for it, still without full time work, and there's only so much rejections I can take before I just break down. My fear is having to give up and resign myself to soul destroying kitchen work again, as that's the only real experience I have, or having to stay living at home for yet another year. I've even been unsuccessful in finding another retail role, in the hope that I could do that by day and at least have the money to move out of home while looking for full time bar work. What's killing me is I have friends who took up bar work right out of school with no experience and it was seemingly no hindrance to them, and even though I have limited experience the fact that it's not 6 months or 2 years is a barrier. I know when I first started looking I was advised to do a few days for free in a local bar to practice, which I did, but I can't do that for 2 years. I really don't know what to do or even what I can do, tbh I don't even know what responses I expect from this thread, but something has got to give, and soon, I can't keep living like this, but I can't see a viable alternative either. I feel like I've screwed my entire life up by my early 20s and it just seems hopeless.

You are 23 there are plenty of courses you can do as a mature student, maybe while getting the odd bar shift from time to time for a few bob. Six weeks is very little time btw most jobs would have six months or a year probation

Pterosaur

stilllooking wrote: »

Hi. I'm having some issues in relation to transitioning 'careers'. To give some background, I'm 23, 2 years ago I dropped out of college after failing my second year repeat. My work experience so far is supervising kids summer camps 4 years in a row (only a couple weeks at a time), 2 seasons of kitchen work (kp and then commis chef) and a few odd jobs here and there (retail for a few months in college at weekends, deli counter for a few weeks earlier this year, few relief kitchen bits and pieces) Basically my cv is patchy at best. I recently came to the conclusion that I need to get out of the small rural village I grew up in, there's no future here for me in terms of jobs or even social life, everyone I grew up with has moved away or has plans to. I also really hate kitchen work (the deli job which was my most recent full time role was offered to me in lieu of the retail position I had applied for, and I took only out of desperation) so I made the decision to move. I chose Cork because I know people there so there would be some hope of a social life, as a city there would be better job prospects, and rents wouldn't be as crazy as Dublin. I also decided that I would try to do bar work as it seemed like a job I'd enjoy. I did find some difficulty in getting hired without experience but eventually one place offered me weekend work (8-9 hours a week between 2 nights) and another place offered me a few hours some weeks (usually about 4-6 hours) This was about 6 weeks ago. Unfortunately my problem now is I can't get any more work despite losing the zero experience tag and having 2 bar managers as references to say I'm not a plonker and do actually work hard I've not been getting any interviews, the few interviews I got when first searching yielded nothing. At the moment I'm stuck spending the week in my family home and getting the bus to cork and staying with relatives, the little hours I do get barely pay my bus and few quid to my cousins for keeping me, the €20-€40 a week left over quickly disappears. So bottom line I'm not earning any money, 70% of the time I'm still mooching off my parents living in their house eating their food etc, I don't seem to have hope of any better prospects and I'm still as lonely and as isolated as I would be if I hadn't gotten anything in Cork. It's only a matter of time before what was meant to be a few weeks staying with my cousins while I saved up rent and deposit for my own place will be every weekend for 2 months running, with nothing to show for it, still without full time work, and there's only so much rejections I can take before I just break down. My fear is having to give up and resign myself to soul destroying kitchen work again, as that's the only real experience I have, or having to stay living at home for yet another year. I've even been unsuccessful in finding another retail role, in the hope that I could do that by day and at least have the money to move out of home while looking for full time bar work. What's killing me is I have friends who took up bar work right out of school with no experience and it was seemingly no hindrance to them, and even though I have limited experience the fact that it's not 6 months or 2 years is a barrier. I know when I first started looking I was advised to do a few days for free in a local bar to practice, which I did, but I can't do that for 2 years. I really don't know what to do or even what I can do, tbh I don't even know what responses I expect from this thread, but something has got to give, and soon, I can't keep living like this, but I can't see a viable alternative either. I feel like I've screwed my entire life up by my early 20s and it just seems hopeless.

I'll read this if somebody adds paragraphs

skintiam

It's really hard to get work now without experience, even for jobs that would be easy to train someone into they want experience. Personally I think the best way of getting work is through people you know, put the word out that you are looking and be willing to take any job at all to get you started and just keep looking around for something better while you're there, it's easier to get a job when you have a job. Good luck and fair play you sound like you are really trying to make a go of it.

stilllooking

ros260 - I had intended to do bar operations or mixology in CIT in September. It's 1 night a week for 16 weeks. The problem is I am am getting the odd bar shift now but the few bob barely covers travel and 'rent' to relatives now, I definitely can't still be in this position come September. I'm aware 6 weeks is very little time within a job but before this people had been saying to me to do a weekend for free at a bar which would give me an edge over where I had been which was zero experience period (just to clarify, it isn't 6 weeks that I did and finished with it's 6 weeks so far, I'm still currently working with them). Compared to before, the few weeks I have done, with the references the bar managers have told me they'd give me is a mile closer to my goal, but it's still out of reach. I can't afford to have the working without earning stretch beyond the end of this month, I'm fairly sure that would be the limit of my cousin's generosity anyway.

skintiam - I am using every connection I know, childhood friends, school friends who lived in cork for a while, relatives, friends of the family, the co-workers where I currently am, I tapped them all for inside knowledge no matter how scant of potential vacancies (may a friend of there's was in a job was going to be leaving soon or had left, or even their local watering hole might have a position open but as yet unadvertised. In addition, every job I apply for I ask anyone who might possibly know anyone there if they are able to say something positive about me to the right people (obviously moving away from home this is going to be a bit more difficult for me then a native corkonian) I've been looking not just for bar work, I was also looking for serving and floor positions as I know they can be a way to get in, and now that I've gotten a bar job, no matter how few hours it is, I've expanded that to retail, customer service/call centre etc as well just to bring in a proper wage while I turn that 6 weeks into 6 months, I've not even had any luck with that. The only thing I won't do is door to door sales/chugging or kitchen work. Thanks for the well wishes and kind words.

the_syco

stilllooking wrote: »

Unfortunately my problem now is I can't get any more work despite losing the zero experience tag

6 weeks by two days is 12 days. That's just over "actual" two weeks.

If they think you're good, get more shifts. If you can't get more shifts, look for bar work where you can get more hours.

Pterosaur wrote: »

I'll read this if somebody adds paragraphs

No.

jamesthepeach

Op i read your story and you could be describing me.
I was exactly the same as you. From a small village in Ireland. I left school with nothing in the middle of a recession where emigration was rife. No job, friends all gone. On the dole, an amount that wouldn't feed a cat. moved to small town a few miles away. Parents had kicked me out. Only the odd temporary job bar work, KP, deli etc. I even did that soul destroying door to door selling lottery tickets.

Life was a dead end. At 25 I had had enough of Ireland and just upped and went to live in Spain for a year. I got a job cleaning boats and some bar work. I was sleeping on the beach first, then on the boats I was cleaning for a while, then got my own place. It was great there but I wanted more.

At 26 I came back to ireland with a totally clear head and a new lease on life, and was able to get more work in bars from the bar experience i had in Spain. Almost a year later I went back to repeat my leaving cert with the help of someone from social welfare that steered me through how to do it. It was basically a fas course where you did your leaving. And then went to university with the points I got while keeping my dole on a back to education scheme. That was a life changer.

I got a job out of that and then with a couple of years experience in that job the world was my oyster. Here I am now, having worked and travelled all over the world and put away a sh1t ton of cash because I was used to living with nothing for years, about to retire now in the next 6 months and go back to Spain in my forties.

I'll chill, play golf, sail etc. If I don't like retirement after a year or two I'll just go back to work. I think though that I'm retired though and that's it. I'll be too used to the easy life soon. Along the way I've met other people who did the same. Some had a much harder road than I did.

So chin up. You are only young. You can do anything you want still.

My one piece of advice is just cut the strings and go anywhere out of Ireland. Get a simple job there and it's amazing how clear your headspace becomes when you just fly away on your own and figure out who you are and where you want to fit in life.

Calina

OP if you have unallocated time go to the library and check what computing facilities they have and start looking at Coursera courses and see about adding to your skill set.

stilllooking

the_syco - I'm not claiming to have more experience then I do, just pointing out that I followed the advice I was given to 'get a shift or 2 behind a bar for free and then some, and the job hunt hasn't improved. There are no more shifts to get in that bar, it's quiet during the week so the owner or manager work weekdays alone. As for looking for bar work with more hours, that's kind of my whole problem is I can't find any.

Jamesthepeach - I'd like to travel and live abroad at some point, but I'd like to live on my own in Ireland for a while first. I think it would be very ill-prepared of me to jump from living mostly at home with minimal employment to suddenly being abroad needed work with no real work history. But getting out of this place is definitely in my future, just want leave my hometown first before taking the next step.

Calina - The 2 problems with that suggestion are a) I don't have a local library, and when I'm in Cork it's over the weekend when the library is closed. b) I don't see anything on there that will help me get bar work, which is what my goal is.

Calina

Cork City Library is open all day Saturday except bank holiday weekends. If you have any aspirations beyond being a bar man such as running your own bar you will need ancillary skills or it will cost you to buy them in. Web programming could help there for example. Otherwise look for short courses in business and setting up your own business and running a business. It isnt just about mixing drinks.

stilllooking

Honestly bar work is my highest goal atm, I think I'd be happy enough with that for at least 3-5 years, what you're saying to do might be a good idea if, once I've reached that goal I then want to progress but it's putting the cart before the horse right now.

the_syco

Apply for the government jobs; most only need your Leaving Cert, and someone that they'll think will be a good fit.

If you're happy with the bar work, check what your local FAS center teaches in regards bar work.

Something like
http://www.ihf.ie/members/hrqep/documents/NewREST_BAR.pdf
or
https://www.ait.ie/courses/higher-certificate-in-arts-bar-supervision

twowheelsonly

If you do get interviews be positive. Be 100% confident that you can do the job (even if you're not, let on that you are !!)

The last time I went for promotion in my own job I was asked along the lines of " Why do you think you're suitable......how do you know you can do the job" My answer was that I just knew I could and the bits I didn't know I could learn just the same as everybody else. I actually asked the interviewer if he could fly a plane !! He (obviously...) answered No, so I replied that he probably could if someone showed him, to which he agreed and then he saw my point. I got the promotion BTW, and was well up on the panel for it.

PM sent as well re some places that might be hiring.

billyduk

From the way you talk about yourself, it appears that confidence is the problem, not prospects.

It's hard to advise without seeing your CV and understanding how you perform in job interviews.

Job interviews are all about selling yourself and being prepared (researching the company and the potential interview questions that might be asked).

You said that you have experience in summer camps and a little bar work. What does that say? It says that you have experience working with people. That you enjoy working with people. Sell that.

There are plenty of jobs in Customer Service in Cork (for example Voxpro). You can sell your experience working with people in your CV and Cover Letter to get an interview.

If you want to work in bars then i'd recommend scouting job sites, but not applying through them. Walk in the front door of the bar thats looking for staff with a smile on your face. Ask to speak to the manager and hand him/her your CV in person. Take a minute or two to sell yourself to him/her right there and then. You'll stand out from the crowd that way. I worked in Cork bars for 12 years so I know the scene.

You can PM me at any time if you want me to review your CV, cover letter and interview approach.

stilllooking

the_syco I love bar work so far, and like I've said, I'm looking into doing it at CIT part time in september.

twowheelsonly Back in April which is when my last interviews were I was much more positive, I had spent a couple weekends passing out my CV all over the city, had about 8 places call me back to arrange meetings/interviews or advise me of recruitment days. Many were just to tell me there was nothing available but 'they'd keep me on file'. 2 called me back about kitchen jobs, which I passed on, one place even had me show up, only to be told that that they had, in the few days between phoning me and meeting me, already given the job to someone else.

billyduk My confidence problems are relatively recent, 2 months ago I had a much more positive outlook, which has faded as the options and opportunities declined. I had been performing quite well in interviews (I think) The feedback I had been getting from them has lead me to, on more than one occasion, believe that the job in question would be mine, sharing my optimism with my girlfriend and family, only to get a rejection email or have the penny drop as the days and weeks went by without any contact. I already applied to voxpro, I got through the phone interview, the written test and the in person interview, only to get an email the following day rejecting me (I put it down to limited positions being filled by a large amount of applicants, but that same day I saw new ads recruiting for the position I had just been turned down for, I believe it was the credit check that hobbled me) That was in February and i was told by them I needed to wait at least 6 months before applying for work with them again. Any time I see jobs advertised on social media or online I always apply both online and hand in my CV in person and speak to a manager if available. If you don't mind I will PM my CV to you if you can spot any issues that would be great.

o Fiac

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Daledge

Probably very irrelevant, but I find it extremely frustrating that someone like OP who actually wants to work and seems like a hard-worker has no luck finding a job yet the government are happy enough to give people weekly payments for sitting on their arses not even looking for jobs.

Unfortunately I've no advice to offer as I'm only a student working part time in a bar, but best of luck OP.

stilllooking

? Fiach thanks, will do

Daledge, It is incredibly fustrating, but I have actually been offered a few jobs, it's just they've all been kitchen based and I genuinely hate that work, I love bar work and could maybe make a career out of it, and there are things like retail and customer service i could live with doing as a job not a career, but kitchen work I couldn't even stomach another day of it, and I say that after 2 seasons of a hotel kitchen and 2 months of deli work after that, if I was to take another kitchen based job, apart from hating every minute of it, it would effectively pigeon hole me into that role (Which has already happened when I applied for a retail assisstant role at centra, but was only offered a deli role because of my kitchen experience, even though they didn't require retail experience for the sales assisstant role and for a few places in cork which after I dropped in my CV, emailed me some weeks later about chef positions they had open, not server/bar positions.) What's even more frustrating is I genuinely think that if I was 18-20 looking for my first job or summer job and didn't have kitchen experience, that it would actually be easier to find work I'd like, it's as though the non-relevant experience I have has actually put me at a disadvantage compared to zero work experience at all if that makes sense. As far as getting a weekly benefit, I'm definitely not above that and would only love to claim it but because I'm still primarily living in the family home and my parents earn over the threshold I'm not entitled to any (maybe that's a good thing because I'd then be obligated to take one of those jobs that I hate).

Daledge

stilllooking wrote: »

? Fiach thanks, will do

Daledge, It is incredibly fustrating, but I have actually been offered a few jobs, it's just they've all been kitchen based and I genuinely hate that work, I love bar work and could maybe make a career out of it, and there are things like retail and customer service i could live with doing as a job not a career, but kitchen work I couldn't even stomach another day of it, and I say that after 2 seasons of a hotel kitchen and 2 months of deli work after that, if I was to take another kitchen based job, apart from hating every minute of it, it would effectively pigeon hole me into that role (Which has already happened when I applied for a retail assisstant role at centra, but was only offered a deli role because of my kitchen experience, even though they didn't require retail experience for the sales assisstant role and for a few places in cork which after I dropped in my CV, emailed me some weeks later about chef positions they had open, not server/bar positions.) What's even more frustrating is I genuinely think that if I was 18-20 looking for my first job or summer job and didn't have kitchen experience, that it would actually be easier to find work I'd like, it's as though the non-relevant experience I have has actually put me at a disadvantage compared to zero work experience at all if that makes sense. As far as getting a weekly benefit, I'm definitely not above that and would only love to claim it but because I'm still primarily living in the family home and my parents earn over the threshold I'm not entitled to any (maybe that's a good thing because I'd then be obligated to take one of those jobs that I hate).

Just to point out I wasn't criticising people on benefits, merely the people on jobseeker's with no intention of actually seeking a job. As you are, I would definitely suggest applying for it as that's what it's for.

All I can say is keep at it. I did kitchen work myself before (KP/Wash-up) and didn't like it, but I got on with it because I knew it was only temporary. There's no harm in taking one of the jobs you wouldn't like doing, while still searching for a bar job.
If it's bar work you're really interested in, just keep trying. It's a cruel industry but one I really enjoy working in myself.

o Fiac

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o Fiac

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stilllooking

Like I said, I've looked into social welfare, they won't give me anything as my parents earn over the threshold, so I'd have the obligations of signing on and all that entails, but get €0 per week, seems pretty pointless to me. As for jobs I wouldn't like as a temporary stop gap, customer service, retail, etc are jobs I don't have any particular interest in, but I would do, but kitchen work is just a step too far, and my concern quite apart from my feelings about the work is that bar managers in future will see 3 years or whatever of kitchen work, assume I only want bar work as a stop gap or that my real career interests lie in cheffing, and write me off for that reason, or only offer me kitchen work if they do food. (This is a reason why I feel the kitchen experience I have has put me at a disadvantage compared to a younger person just out of school)

leinsterdude

Keep trying, you sound switched on, just show a very positive side to potential employers, it's all about attitude, and making people think you are good to work with, relax a little it will work out.

o Fiac

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stilllooking

I already did look at it, they take into account the benefit in kind of living at home (i.e. assuming not required to pay rent, having meals and utilities provided etc) where they take the mortgage (my parents have their house paid off) the other children and a basic amount and make a credit out of that, then you get x-% of the parents income, divide by 52, take the credit for mortage, kids and basic amount off that and you're left with a figure which you subtract from the band you are in (€100, €144 or €188) to get what you are actually entitled to so if that figure is €80 and you're in the €100 band, you'll actually get €20 as your parents income are deemed to be worth €80 a week. I worked out for me to be entitled to anything given the no mortgage and my other siblings, the amount they would need to earn is under €52k a year between them, because my mom has a good public service job and my dad also works they are a good bit above that.

this link explains it better than I just did
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/irish_social_welfare_system/means_test_for_social_welfare_payments/how_parents_income_can_affect_jobseekers_allowance.html



I promise I'm not as negative in interviews as I am in this thread, I really needed an anonymous place to vent and the last interviews I had were a good while ago when I was generally more upbeat about the whole thing.

DoozerT6

OP everybody I have ever met who did bar work as a full-time career eventually tired of it. (sorry if that ruffles feathers here, but that is what I have heard from others). You end up working late nights and weekends while everybody else is out enjoying themselves, it is hard, dirty work, you have to deal with drunk people on a daily basis, and should you meet a partner, bar work limits the amount of time you can spend with them in the evenings and weekends. Disclaimer, I know thousands of people do bar work full time and manage to have lives, but recently I spoke to a guy who until recently worked in a pub near me, and is now working in another (non-pub) related industry. He couldn't be happier, after years of working in pubs (and knowing no different), to have his evenings back again.

In fairness to you, you really do seem to be putting in a real effort to make something of your situation. Why not go back to CIT full-time in September as a mature student, doing something, anything that you enjoy that has the potential for a full-time job at the end of it. I guess a generic business course with computing might be a good start? Or a management course? CIT have a Bar Management course, for one. And believe me, there will be plenty of students your age and older there. Would you be eligible for grants?

billyduk

DoozerT6 wrote: »

OP everybody I have ever met who did bar work as a full-time career eventually tired of it. (sorry if that ruffles feathers here, but that is what I have heard from others). You end up working late nights and weekends while everybody else is out enjoying themselves, it is hard, dirty work, you have to deal with drunk people on a daily basis, and should you meet a partner, bar work limits the amount of time you can spend with them in the evenings and weekends. Disclaimer, I know thousands of people do bar work full time and manage to have lives, but recently I spoke to a guy who until recently worked in a pub near me, and is now working in another (non-pub) related industry. He couldn't be happier, after years of working in pubs (and knowing no different), to have his evenings back again.

In fairness to you, you really do seem to be putting in a real effort to make something of your situation. Why not go back to CIT full-time in September as a mature student, doing something, anything that you enjoy that has the potential for a full-time job at the end of it. I guess a generic business course with computing might be a good start? Or a management course? CIT have a Bar Management course, for one. And believe me, there will be plenty of students your age and older there. Would you be eligible for grants?

I must concur with this. I had 12 years in bar work, 4 of them full-time. Sure its fun for a while, but you burn out fast as the work/life balance is terrible. Its a great job while you study, but it's a tough one as a career.

You have experience of working with people in retail and hospitality that would make you ideal for a customer service role. In a CS role you have scope to grow a career and branch out into other areas of the business by studying part time to get extra qualifications. Many companies with CS departments will even assist you in your studies.

I understand you got turned down at VoxPro, but don't give up on that path yet. All you need to do is get a foot in the door somewhere. Keep an eye out for the recruitment agencies posting CS positions in the coming months. Amazon hire people as temp CS advisors for the Christmas period (September-February) and many of these temps get full-time contracts at the end.

stilllooking

DoozerT6 - I'd say the key word there is eventually, presumably they enjoyed it to begin with. Even if in 10-15 years or sooner I end up changing again, it's what I want to do now. I'm no stranger to late nights and working weekends, it's one of the few parts of kitchen work I didn't mind. Hard work and dirty work doesn't intimidate me. My partner lives abroad so evenings and weekends with her ins't a factor every week, I book holidays to visit her. The course I failed out of (you could say dropped out of since I mostly stopped attending lectures due to lack of interest) was a Business and management course, going to college was the worst thing I ever did, quitting was the best. I have no intentions of going back. The part time course in CIT would suit me was it's only 1 evening a week for 16 weeks, and it's a Tuesday night so unlikely to interfere too much with any employment prospects, as opposed to a full time course which would delay me being able to work full time for another few years. Most people I know who went to college have found themselves needing to work for free doing internships, working minimum wage jobs the same as the people like me who dropped out or never went, or had to do masters degrees as a regular degree isn't enough. And I know other people who only did the leaving or even dropped out of secondary school who went straight into waitering/waitressing, bartending, receptionist etc etc and haven't been out of work since, because they have work experience behind them and not a piece of paper that everyone else has.

billyduk, I am keeping an eye on amazon and others, but I haven't found any that I would be suitable for yet (all foreign language positions or managerial so far, nothing entry level for people without a foreign language in the time that I've been looking anyway)

DoozerT6

I really do commend the way you have this thought out in your head and you certainly seem very articulate, but the only thing is....are you sure you'll feel the same way in 15 years? By then, instead of being in your early 20's, you'll be in your mid-late 30's, possibly married with a family? Who knows. You will also, unless you do decent courses along the way, have no marketable qualifications in a future workforce except perhaps people skills. You may find yourself having to go back to college full time, (again, you may have a family to support, so that may not be feasible depending on what your partner does for work), which at that stage of your life, may be the LAST thing you want to do.

I'm not trying to second-guess every possible outcome for Future You, but right now, you have the IDEAL opportunity to make decisions which can positively impact your future, not leave Future You basically stuck in unskilled labour land, forcing you back to college at a very different stage of life. A mixology course will be of no benefit to you outside of bar work. Unless you do some sort of recognised Management course while bartending, you will come out with no transferable skills (and possible none, or outdated, computer skills) for another industry.

But look, best of luck whatever you decide to do, you seem like a bright lad. Just think long-term about hings.

billyduk

DoozerT6 wrote: »

I really do commend the way you have this thought out in your head and you certainly seem very articulate, but the only thing is....are you sure you'll feel the same way in 15 years? By then, instead of being in your early 20's, you'll be in your mid-late 30's, possibly married with a family? Who knows. You will also, unless you do decent courses along the way, have no marketable qualifications in a future workforce except perhaps people skills. You may find yourself having to go back to college full time, (again, you may have a family to support, so that may not be feasible depending on what your partner does for work), which at that stage of your life, may be the LAST thing you want to do.

I'm not trying to second-guess every possible outcome for Future You, but right now, you have the IDEAL opportunity to make decisions which can positively impact your future, not leave Future You basically stuck in unskilled labour land, forcing you back to college at a very different stage of life. A mixology course will be of no benefit to you outside of bar work. Unless you do some sort of recognised Management course while bartending, you will come out with no transferable skills (and possible none, or outdated, computer skills) for another industry.

But look, best of luck whatever you decide to do, you seem like a bright lad. Just think long-term about hings.

I couldn't agree more with this.

I was in an identical situation to the OP. At 21 years of age I was a college drop-out (also Business) and thinking that a life in hospitality was the bees knees.

I had the same attitude as the OP (dropping out was the best decision I ever made - and it was at that point) and that a career in hospitality was perfect. The problem? I was burnt out by 23. Literally burnt out.

One day I stumbled upon an advert for a Uni open day and decided i'd have a look. I spoke to the programme director of a course that caught my eye and he sold it to me in less than a minute. I immediately went home and applied. Without doubt it was the best decision I ever made. I was hooked on the course and have been fortunate to forge a career in the industry I am in as a result.

Most of the people I know from bar work back in the day ended up going back to college and getting 3rd level qualifications. Mostly for financial reasons. Unless you get into bar management or flair bartending, you'll rarely earn more than a euro or two north of minimum wage in bar work.

I wouldn't be making such a drastic decision at this stage of your life. Give yourself options.

stilllooking

15 years would be just an example. At the very minimum I want to give it 2 or 3 years. The way I see it, I can give this a try as a career and if it doesn't work, at least I'll have had money coming in, maybe saved a bit and have the resources then to travel, or go to college again if I can forget my last experience, and if it does work, then progress through supervisor, manager etc etc. But if I go for college now, I won't know if I would have enjoyed fall time bar work or not, and I'm committing myself to a fair whack of money and time spent on what may be a career that I wouldn't enjoy, or be all that lucrative. I think it would be somewhat premature to decide at this stage that bartending isn't for me, when I've barely scratched the surface of it, and end up in my late 20s with maybe a qualification, but no experience of both working full time and living independently, I'd have gone from school to college to living at home again back to college, and I want to be able to support myself before then. I wouldn't be eligible for mature student grants etc until 2018 anyway, as you need to be living independently of your parents since the previous October and 23 years old from January (I only turned 23 this year) so if I am living independently from October onwards I will be eligible for being a mature student then. And of course I have the year after or the year after that as well, but September 2018 is the earliest, I want to be working and living independently between now and then, and my preferred career for that time would be bar tending, and I can make a more informed choice at that stage after experiencing both college and working.

stilllooking

To me, signing up to college now would be the more drastic option, whereas working, preferably in a career I like, would be the path to options (not least paying for college when the time comes if I can't get a grant, or saving some money to offset the loss of income that would come from needing to go back to part time to accommodate college)

Bigus

Try a larger Hotel for bar work and tell them you'll gladly do the crappy all night / night porter assistant shifts and weekends to get your foot in the door.
Time is on your side !

be dogmatic and keep trying , that's what makes some people successful , try anything and keep trying , you're actually on the right track and have already made the hard choices , just be patient for those choices to pay off.

stilllooking

Already tried The Lee, Clayton, Metropole and the Imperial. The Imperial called me for an interview but nothing came of it. The Lee sent an automated response saying they'll keep my cv on file for 12 months in case anything comes up. Clayton has been advertising since for the same job I applied for so I think it's safe to assume they discounted me. When applying to those places I said I'd be happy to work as a waiter or floor staff and work my way up. Maybe come August or something I'll reapply everywhere again and pick up some work that students going back to college will make available.

billyduk

stilllooking wrote: »

Already tried The Lee, Clayton, Metropole and the Imperial. The Imperial called me for an interview but nothing came of it. The Lee sent an automated response saying they'll keep my cv on file for 12 months in case anything comes up. Clayton has been advertising since for the same job I applied for so I think it's safe to assume they discounted me. When applying to those places I said I'd be happy to work as a waiter or floor staff and work my way up. Maybe come August or something I'll reapply everywhere again and pick up some work that students going back to college will make available.

Have you a car?

stilllooking

Not yet, it might happen later when I have enough money for a car, to tax and insure it, to run it etc etc. For now I'm planning on just renting near where I can get work and saving up for one. Perhaps the money I save by moving farther out from the city will offset the expense of a car.

billyduk

stilllooking wrote: »

Not yet, it might happen later when I have enough money for a car, to tax and insure it, to run it etc etc. For now I'm planning on just renting near where I can get work and saving up for one. Perhaps the money I save by moving farther out from the city will offset the expense of a car.

I was saying it as there are a few jobs in the burbs and in the satellite towns around the city (Fota, Douglas, Ballincollig/Ovens, Carrigaline). They may not suit without a car.

You seem highly motivated towards a career in bars which will stand to you. The friends I have who are still in the business were all highly motivated and became absolute craftsmen (mixology/cocktails) and managers. They're on decent money now, but be prepared to be paid min-wage early on.

I'll reach out to a few friends who work in bars across the city to see if they know of any inside tracks or ways to get your foot in the door.

stilllooking

Given that I'm yet to take out a lease on a place, a bar in the suburbs could suit me and I could just rent near it, I'm not tied to the city centre forever, I've been focusing there because I figure the bars there are busier, I can visit more of them in a day passing out CVs etc and it's where I am staying currently. If a place somewhere slightly out of the centre was hiring I would apply and if successful, would not have an issue renting closer to there, it might even work out better cost wise than city centre living.

bilbot79

stilllooking wrote: »

Hi. I'm having some issues in relation to transitioning 'careers'. To give some background, I'm 23, 2 years ago I dropped out of college after failing my second year repeat. My work experience so far is supervising kids summer camps 4 years in a row (only a couple weeks at a time), 2 seasons of kitchen work (kp and then commis chef) and a few odd jobs here and there (retail for a few months in college at weekends, deli counter for a few weeks earlier this year, few relief kitchen bits and pieces) Basically my cv is patchy at best. I recently came to the conclusion that I need to get out of the small rural village I grew up in, there's no future here for me in terms of jobs or even social life, everyone I grew up with has moved away or has plans to. I also really hate kitchen work (the deli job which was my most recent full time role was offered to me in lieu of the retail position I had applied for, and I took only out of desperation) so I made the decision to move. I chose Cork because I know people there so there would be some hope of a social life, as a city there would be better job prospects, and rents wouldn't be as crazy as Dublin. I also decided that I would try to do bar work as it seemed like a job I'd enjoy. I did find some difficulty in getting hired without experience but eventually one place offered me weekend work (8-9 hours a week between 2 nights) and another place offered me a few hours some weeks (usually about 4-6 hours) This was about 6 weeks ago. Unfortunately my problem now is I can't get any more work despite losing the zero experience tag and having 2 bar managers as references to say I'm not a plonker and do actually work hard I've not been getting any interviews, the few interviews I got when first searching yielded nothing. At the moment I'm stuck spending the week in my family home and getting the bus to cork and staying with relatives, the little hours I do get barely pay my bus and few quid to my cousins for keeping me, the €20-€40 a week left over quickly disappears. So bottom line I'm not earning any money, 70% of the time I'm still mooching off my parents living in their house eating their food etc, I don't seem to have hope of any better prospects and I'm still as lonely and as isolated as I would be if I hadn't gotten anything in Cork. It's only a matter of time before what was meant to be a few weeks staying with my cousins while I saved up rent and deposit for my own place will be every weekend for 2 months running, with nothing to show for it, still without full time work, and there's only so much rejections I can take before I just break down. My fear is having to give up and resign myself to soul destroying kitchen work again, as that's the only real experience I have, or having to stay living at home for yet another year. I've even been unsuccessful in finding another retail role, in the hope that I could do that by day and at least have the money to move out of home while looking for full time bar work. What's killing me is I have friends who took up bar work right out of school with no experience and it was seemingly no hindrance to them, and even though I have limited experience the fact that it's not 6 months or 2 years is a barrier. I know when I first started looking I was advised to do a few days for free in a local bar to practice, which I did, but I can't do that for 2 years. I really don't know what to do or even what I can do, tbh I don't even know what responses I expect from this thread, but something has got to give, and soon, I can't keep living like this, but I can't see a viable alternative either. I feel like I've screwed my entire life up by my early 20s and it just seems hopeless.

Lie through your teeth

It's not a joke. Do you want to sort it or not?

billyduk

bilbot79 wrote: »

Lie through your teeth

It's not a joke. Do you want to sort it or not?

This is probably how most get started in bar work to be honest... "Experience? Oh ya! Been pulling pints for years!"

billyduk

stilllooking wrote: »

Given that I'm yet to take out a lease on a place, a bar in the suburbs could suit me and I could just rent near it, I'm not tied to the city centre forever, I've been focusing there because I figure the bars there are busier, I can visit more of them in a day passing out CVs etc and it's where I am staying currently. If a place somewhere slightly out of the centre was hiring I would apply and if successful, would not have an issue renting closer to there, it might even work out better cost wise than city centre living.

Well the East Village in Douglas are looking for staff. Might be worth a trip to Douglas as it has its own nightlife with a few late bars.

stilllooking

Lying might have worked if I hadn't already put out a load of CVs with my real experience on it. I'll check out that place in Douglas.