Been invoiced for making inquiry call to lawyer

Flowergirl80

Hi, I had called a very well established law firm, to enquire whether I had a case. When I called, I was transferred to speak with a solicitor, whom I spoke with for a good few minutes, describing my situation and whether I had a case or not. He then asked me to send email describing situation. I got a call, had a brief conversation about my email that was read by solicitor, and was asked to come in person to visit. I changed my mind, I was going through a lot of stress and hence I did not wish to continue and did not visit in person.

One year later, out of nowhere, I got email with invoice, charging me for speaking over phone two times. Is this acceptable to charge someone for making an enquiry? I am now very stressed, because I dont think I was aware of potential costs for making a phone call, I was not even informed that I will be charged. I had no idea I will be charged.

Please advice me. I am the one who pay all my bills, and this event is stressing me, because I have not paid yet, and I dont think I should be paying for something like this, as much as I regret making that call.

Cookie_Monster

Regardless of that to leave it a year and only then send it is not acceptable and I'd challenge them on that basis alone and refuse to pay it

Miaireland

You did use your Solicitor's time. You wanted them to tell you if you had a case or not. In other words you asked for their legal advice. So yes you owe the money

Flowergirl80

Miaireland wrote: »

You did use your Solicitor's time. You wanted them to tell you if you had a case or not. In other words you asked for their legal advice. So yes you owe the money

It was more or less an inquiry call, regarding legal advice, how to go about it etc, before actually using their services. Also, I was not made aware at any point of phone call, that I will be charged a year later

Pelvis

Miaireland wrote: »

You did use your Solicitor's time. You wanted them to tell you if you had a case or not. In other words you asked for their legal advice. So yes you owe the money

I just spent time reading your post.

That'll be €50 please.

Sleeper12

Flowergirl80 wrote:

It was more or less an inquiry call, regarding legal advice, how to go about it etc, before actually using their services. Also, I was not made aware at any point of phone call, that I will be charged a year later

Go to your GP and inquire about elective surgery. Although you were only making inquiries and never went ahead with the nose job you still have to pay the GP for his time and professional advice.
Solicitors, architects, accountants etc charge for the time working on your case. Some have a timer beside their phone, I knew an architect with one 40 years ago. You are charged for times on the phone.
Personally I think it would be good practice to tell you that you are being charged.

Flowergirl80

sugarman wrote: »

If it was via email, delete it and move on.

I wouldn't worry about it unless you get a letter through the door.

I replied to the email, told them I was alarmed to see this invoice, that I did not wish to use their services, and asked for clarification why I was charged and possibly cancel it. They replied the invoice still stands. Then I wrote again which is not replied yet, that again, I was not told about charges.

Now, I feel whether it was a mistake on my part to reply to their email?
It is all hassle, and I am baffled why any reputed law firm would do this

Flowergirl80

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Go to your GP and inquire about elective surgery. Although you were only making inquiries and never went ahead with the nose job you still have to pay the GP for his time and professional advice.
Solicitors, architects, accountants etc charge for the time working on your case. Some have a timer beside their phone, I knew an architect with one 40 years ago. You are charged for times on the phone.
Personally I think it would be good practice to tell you that you are being charged.

The GP charges are mentioned, is quite clear how much it is, and you expect them, so I dont understand how is this comparative to making a call a law firm. Also whenever I visit I am informed about the potential costs of surgery or procedure or stay etc. I had called two more firms around that time, and it was over, nobody charged me for enquiry

So this doesn't sit well with me

MarkR

I know their time isn't free, but was there a cost advised to you at any stage? How are you supposed to know if no payment structure is agreed?

Flowergirl80

MarkR wrote: »

I know their time isn't free, but was there a cost advised to you at any stage? How are you supposed to know if no payment structure is agreed?

There was nothing agreed in person or in writing or verbal, or at any point of phone call conversation. That's why I am feeling lost why I was invoiced in this manner

Avatar MIA

Flowergirl80 wrote: »

I replied to the email

Do they have your home address/do you use them for other services?

BTW, approx. how much are we talking about?

You could send them a counter invoice for the time you've taken to understand their correspondence.

A year later? Someone needs to bulk up their billings. :rolleyes:

Pelvis

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Go to your GP and inquire about elective surgery. Although you were only making inquiries and never went ahead with the nose job you still have to pay the GP for his time and professional advice.
Solicitors, architects, accountants etc charge for the time working on your case. Some have a timer beside their phone, I knew an architect with one 40 years ago. You are charged for times on the phone.
Personally I think it would be good practice to tell you that you are being charged.

You are comparing a visit to a doctor to a call inquiry to a solicitor. Hardly like for like is it? Can a GP charge someone for calling them and asking if there's an appointment available?

Flowergirl80

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Do they have your home address/do you use them for other services?

BTW, approx. how much are we talking about?
:[/QUOTE

a little over quarter thousand.

Kauto

Tell them to go take a run and jump. Dont waste another second on it. No chance of them getting this.

Addle

You made an enquiry with a legal professional-how do you not consider this legal advice?

I'm surprised that anyone would think that correspondence from any professional comes for free, unless you specifically have an offer of free initial consultation/service in advance.

Flowergirl80

Flowergirl80 wrote: »

Hi, I had called a very well established law firm, to enquire whether I had a case. When I called, I was transferred to speak with a solicitor, whom I spoke with for a good few minutes, describing my situation and whether I had a case or not. He then asked me to send email describing situation. I got a call, had a brief conversation about my email that was read by solicitor, and was asked to come in person to visit. I changed my mind, I was going through a lot of stress and hence I did not wish to continue and did not visit in person.

One year later, out of nowhere, I got email with invoice, charging me for speaking over phone two times. Is this acceptable to charge someone for making an enquiry? I am now very stressed, because I dont think I was aware of potential costs for making a phone call, I was not even informed that I will be charged. I had no idea I will be charged.

Please advice me. I am the one who pay all my bills, and this event is stressing me, because I have not paid yet, and I dont think I should be paying for something like this, as much as I regret making that call.

You called to make an inquiry.
They put you through to speak with a Solicitor.
You emailed the details, they reviewed the info etc.
You then had a follow up call to discuss the email.
You then decided not to proceed.

Like it or not you sought their professional advice. YOU asked them. They provided this in the form of two calls plus time spent reviewing your email and providing an initial consultation by phone.

You should pay the bill.

Lux23

I spoke to solicitor once and asked him to confirm something I believed to be the case. It took fifteen minutes and he charged us €250. It is unfair that you didn't get the invoice soon after but I would still pay it. Incidentally, it was the best €250 we ever spent!

Sleeper12

Flowergirl80 wrote:

So this doesn't sit well with me

I agree with you. I was just giving a comparison.

I would think whatever governing bodies (Bar Association or whatever) would consider this unethical & might have something to say about it.
It might also be a clerical error.

Tayschren

Pay up,

GreeBo

OP I think you need to get legal advice on this one, do you know any lawyers?

wordofwarning

Addle wrote: »

I'm surprised that anyone would think that correspondence from any professional comes for free, unless you specifically have an offer of free initial consultation/service in advance.

I have spoken to accountants, solicitors, architects, tax advisors etc to discuss an issue and what they can offer me. I am not going to hand over €250 to a professional to be told, 'sorry I can't help you there'. I know a professionals time is not free. But I am not going to pay for a hour for them to say they can't help me

Look at this way, this solictor could have possibly gotten hundreds of thousands in billings from sending a few minutes discussing OPs situation. It was a sales pitch. Imagine calling a company and asking for a sales pitch, but you thought their product or service was ****. Then being handed a bill for the pitch. Would you want a sales pitch or buy from that company if they charged you for a sales pitch?

I have zero issue paying thousands for professional services, when I know a person is competent. I am not going to pay €250 a pop to discover the professional is useless. Eg I called a tax advisor and had a 5 min conversation where I discovered that visiting them would be futile. They could not help me and there was no point visiting them. Would I use them in the future paying for their services after them being honest about not being able to help me at the moment for free? Absolutely.

Professional services are services, they are not tangible. People need to be sure the professional they are using are competent. People are not going to hand out €250 to discover they arent

Carlos Orange

Flowergirl80 wrote: »

Please advice me. I am the one who pay all my bills, and this event is stressing me, because I have not paid yet, and I dont think I should be paying for something like this, as much as I regret making that call.

Per section 68 of the solicitors act 1994 you should be informed of charges when the solicitor takes instruction to provide legal services or as soon as practical thereafter. Presumably one year latter doesn't meet that standard. Maybe you could ring the law society and see what they think.

https://www.lawsociety.ie/Public/Complaints-against-solicitors/

edanto

If I were you, I wouldn't pay, and consider a complaint to the Law Society. People here who are saying "but you got legal advice" are ignoring the most important point, you didn't agree to any charges in advance and the law firm in question broke the Law Society guidelines by not giving you information in writing about the charges you would incur.

https://www.lawsociety.ie/Public/Legal-guides/Legal-Charges/

The Law Society wrote:

By law, your solicitor must give you information about your legal charges – the money you must pay them for their services. The law that deals with this matter is Section 68, Solicitors (Amendment) Act 1994.

When you instruct a solicitor to carry out work for you, your solicitor is obliged by law to give you information in writing about the legal charges you will incur.

The information you will be given will be as follows:

the solicitor’s actual charges, or, where this is not possible or practicable,
an estimate of the solicitor’s charges, or, where this is not possible or practicable,
the basis on which the solicitor’s charges are to be made.
For more information about how charges for legal services are incurred, see the Law Society's Legal Charges guide

bucketybuck

I've called a few places to check what time they closed, should I budget some money for all the invoices I am about to receive?

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

A solicitor must give you the details of any charges in writing. Did you get a list of the solicitors charges?

If not, I would suggest you contact the Law Society and forward or copy your solicitor on the correspondence. Law Society number is 01 672 4800

hullaballoo

Do you specifically agree to charges when you get into a taxi?

davo2001

hullaballoo wrote: »

Do you specifically agree to charges when you get into a taxi?

Charges and fees are posted in the taxi in line of site, can the same be said for the law office?

Curly Judge

Yeaah ..almost every solicitor's office in the country has a special office to which freebe calls are diverted.
This is specially set aside to answer calls, free of charge, from people who think everything in life is, or should be, free.
It is paid for out of the profits garnered from the vast bulk of their clients who pay for the services provided.
Next time you ring up please quote your "Individual Entitlement Expectation nNumber" and this will avoid all your "stress".

Flowergirl80

Curly Judge wrote: »

Yeaah ..almost every solicitor's office in the country has a special office to which freebe calls are diverted.
This is specially set aside to answer calls, free of charge, from people who think everything in life is, or should be, free.
It is paid for out of the profits garnered from the vast bulk of their clients who pay for the services provided.
Next time you ring up please quote your "Individual Entitlement Expectation nNumber" and this will avoid all your "stress".

I was not advised about the costs. Mind you, I was not looking for any freebie, but it was more inquiry call, I discussed, and not any point in time of conversation or before my call been transferred, I was told or informed about the legal charges, hourly rate or anything at all regarding fees. Because it was one year ago, I faintly remember if I asked, and I am pretty sure I would not have gone head unless I was told this should not be charged, if that happened at all. I was not aware of the costs, and certainly not agreed anything in writing. This was inquiry call to the solicitor firm. I mean, really. They put me through speaking with someone, whom I did briefy converse. I am baffled why I was not informed, and received invoice a year later. How is this acceptable ? Please help me understand. Honestly, I feel this is so much hassle and want to just pay to let this stress over, but at the same time, it just does not feel right. Therefore I am here asking. Thanks everyone for replying here

bucketybuck

Curly Judge wrote: »

Yeaah ..almost every solicitor's office in the country has a special office to which freebe calls are diverted.
This is specially set aside to answer calls, free of charge, from people who think everything in life is, or should be, free.
It is paid for out of the profits garnered from the vast bulk of their clients who pay for the services provided.
Next time you ring up please quote your "Individual Entitlement Expectation nNumber" and this will avoid all your "stress".

Back in the real world, people will still contact businesses in advance to see if they can provide a service or not before committing to agreed terms and conditions.

Ashbx

What the solicitor did was probably a little unfair. It should have been made clear to you what the charges were and if you were happy to go ahead with the project, but at the same time, as others have said, the solicitor took time to take two phone calls, reviewed your email and presumably did some research into how they would progress if they wanted to you to come in for a meeting. Solicitors charge per hour and that would be at least an hours work.

Again its not fair, but the solicitor isn't doing anything wrong here I don't think. If it were me, I would try one more time sending them a letter explaining that the charges were not expressed to you in advance and they MAY reduce the charge for you. You say its a top firm and if that's true, €250 for an hours work is actually pretty good. You could easily be paying double that for other top law firms.

padser

Kaiden Delightful Sender wrote: »

A solicitor must give you the details of any charges in writing. Did you get a list of the solicitors charges?

If not, I would suggest you contact the Law Society and forward or copy your solicitor on the correspondence. Law Society number is 01 672 4800

If you don't want to just ignore the invoice (which is probably what I would do) then the advice above is the best advice - contact the Law Society.

Their website is pretty clear that you must be informed in writing of the charges, or how the charges will be calculated. This has to happen when you are instructing a solicitor to carry out work.

https://www.lawsociety.ie/Public/Legal-guides/Legal-Charges/

For €250, I doubt any firm will actually look to go chasing it, and if they did I think they will struggle to convince anyone they have a right to collect it.

I know there are a lot of solicitors knocking around this forum, and I have the upmost appreciation for the struggle in the legal professsion to get paid for work done (particularly barristers). That aside, you can't seek to charge someone for ringing up a query which effectively amounts to "Will I use your services" unless you have been absolutely explicit with them and they are aware that you will be charging them for the call.

Arguably the OP was naive to send on the email without first asking whether a charge was going to accrue. However, the onus still lay (both morally, and as per law society guidelines) on the solicitor to agree fees up front.

Section 68 letters exist for a reason - they ensure that everyone is aware of what a bill is going to be / how it will be calulated / what services will be performed etc. It's not on for a solicitor to have what could be construed by a (potential) client as an introductory or exploratory conversion and then seek to issue a bill almost 1 year later.

Someone in a law firm with a year end on 1st June (or maybe 1st July) is worried they wouldn't get their bonus this year and they are trying to shake down the OP for €250 to try and get to their target. Let's not defend them!

mad m

Better call Saul.

How much is invoice for OP.

Avatar MIA

mad m wrote: »

Better call Saul.

How much is invoice for OP.

two fiddy

mad m

Avatar MIA wrote: »

two fiddy

Fairly steep alright......

Flowergirl80

mad m wrote: »

Better call Saul.

How much is invoice for OP.

over 250

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

c6ysaphjvqw41k

This post has been deleted.

chops018

Santos Huge Jug wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

But the difference is she called with a question, the Solicitor then asked the OP to set it out in an email, then more than likely researched the issue, then possibly called the OP back to discuss same. This is all legal advice and the specialties of a legal service was provided by giving this advice.

Granted, I do agree it's a bit ridiculous for them to go invoicing this person ages after the fact, especially when they weren't given a s. 68 letter or even an oral expression that to receive such legal advice it will cost "x", but still, the fact remains, legal advice was sought on a certain issue and it appears to have been provided.

It's not like going into a shop and asking an employee about several TV's, where they are getting paid the same hourly rate regardless (assuming they aren't getting commission), a lawyer (solicitor or barrister), would have to spend time discussing the OP's issue on the phone, then do some research, all meaning his/her time is not being spent on actual open files in the office that are bringing in actual fees.

Again, I do think it's ridiculous that they are chasing this up so long after the fact for what appears to be little work done. Especially when most initial consultations can be free in smaller firms. But this is usually just a short meeting, without any need for research. If you had an initial consultation and it was agreed that the Solicitor would have to spend time researching the issue and getting back to that person then more than likely there would be fees. However, the usual practice would be to tell the client in some form or another, so this is the thrust of the argument that I agree with.

dixiefly

I think the OP is certainly entitled to feel aggrieved over the charging for the first "consultation".

However, sending details in an email and a subsequent discussion based on the contents of the email is certainly getting into the charging territory. The OP mentions that it's a top firm so the lawyers in the firm are probably being paid decent money & they were possibly precluded from other calls / meetings etc during that time.

So, if it was me, I wouldnt be going down the road of appeals to the Law Society etc. You just dont know when you might need someone again and Ireland is a small place.

I would consider what is a reasonable charge with the first consultation removed. So the second call & dealing with email is probably 2/3rds of the charge.

That would be something like €165 + vat. Up to you but you might get away with €150 + vat. Or chance 50% but I wouldnt go less than that.

I am not associated with a legal firm at all but to ring a "top" legal firm and expect to get assistance like that is a stretching it a bit.

dar100

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Go to your GP and inquire about elective surgery. Although you were only making inquiries and never went ahead with the nose job you still have to pay the GP for his time and professional advice.
Solicitors, architects, accountants etc charge for the time working on your case. Some have a timer beside their phone, I knew an architect with one 40 years ago. You are charged for times on the phone.
Personally I think it would be good practice to tell you that you are being charged.

Give over will you !

There is no informed consent here!!

hullaballoo

What has informed consent got to do with inviting a fee for professional advice?

wazzoraybelle

I have been advised many times by various solicitors for free, sometimes over the phone but several times through an arranged appointment at their offices. There is nothing unusual in being advised free of charge and would be put down as a cost of doing business. I have always enquired first about a fee for any advice and the answer has, without exception, been that they were happy to discuss an issue without charge.

In my own work, I meet potential clients to discuss their requirements and frequently advise them free of charge and without obligation.

Rabbo

- Solicitors make a living by giving legal advice
- OP sought and gained legal advice from a solicitor
- Solicitor charged for said advice

I'm failing to see the problem.

If it was a short telephone call enquiring about their services, of course there shouldn't be a fee but it sounds like there was back and forth communication where the solicitor actually gave you legal advice.

I work in a professional setting where we often get people making enquiries and asking for advice without ever intending on formally instructing you. You can tell fairly quickly if they are just trying to squeeze information from you. We never really charge these people but we probably should as they are an incredible time sink

beauf

Can you ask them for an admin fee for processing the invoice.

lifeandtimes

Rabbo wrote: »

- Solicitors make a living by giving legal advice
- OP sought and gained legal advice from a solicitor
- Solicitor charged for said advice

I'm failing to see the problem.

If it was a short telephone call enquiring about their services, of course there shouldn't be a fee but it sounds like there was back and forth communication where the solicitor actually gave you legal advice.

I work in a professional setting where we often get people making enquiries and asking for advice without ever intending on formally instructing you. You can tell fairly quickly if they are just trying to squeeze information from you. We never really charge these people but we probably should as they are an incredible time sink

Yes but unlike the rich and famous people in shows like suits normal can't just expect to be billed whatever and be happy with it. The issue is op was not advised there is a charge at any point and due to this the firm have not followed the law amd also is the fact they billed her a year later for time incurred on 2 calls previously.

Op ignore, it will cost them more than 250 to bring you to court at which point they would have to prove you were advised of the charges

dar100

hullaballoo wrote: »

What has informed consent got to do with inviting a fee for professional advice?

the basics of a contract!!

Now that is 100 euro, and as I don't have any detail on you I will invoice you through your boards account

chops018

wazzoraybelle wrote: »

I have been advised many times by various solicitors for free, sometimes over the phone but several times through an arranged appointment at their offices. There is nothing unusual in being advised free of charge and would be put down as a cost of doing business. I have always enquired first about a fee for any advice and the answer has, without exception, been that they were happy to discuss an issue without charge.

In my own work, I meet potential clients to discuss their requirements and frequently advise them free of charge and without obligation.

I do see your point, but they are your experiences. Whilst there is plenty of firms that would offer a free consultation and even a follow up call or two, there is also plenty that would charge for this. Obviously this firm are charging for their work.

Someone mentioned earlier that it's probably a Solicitor in a big firm trying to hit targets. It could possibly be that they were questioned on this time, and their superior told them to chase up the money for the time spent on this matter.

Again, I maintain that I do think it's bad form for them to issue such a bill so long after the fact, and without even orally agreeing or making the OP aware that there would be a cost, not to mention that this should have been done in writing around the time the OP was in communication with them.

dar100 wrote: »

the basics of a contract!!

Now that is 100 euro, and as I don't have any detail on you I will invoice you through your boards account

You do realise that a contract can begin by conduct i.e. the seeking and receiving of legal services. Again, not that I agree that this should be the case here. Obviously the firm should have discussed fees at a much earlier stage than they did.

I just think that your analogy is a bit extreme. Especially when you talk about the basics of contract, and, with respect, contract law can be much more intricate, despite many people thinking it's very simple. I am not saying that you are saying this, nor am I implying that you're not aware of the intricacies of contract law. I am merely saying this to the thread at large, obviously using your comment to do so.

SGSM

Haven't a clue if they are allowed to do this but they should be told to take that invoice, and shove it.
Charged for talking on the phone for a few minutes? What has this country come to.

Edit: Just saw it was 250 euros!!! F**king cowboys.

hullaballoo

dar100 wrote: »

the basics of a contract!!

Now that is 100 euro, and as I don't have any detail on you I will invoice you through your boards account

I don't want to be dickish about this but I can't really help it in this case.

Informed consent is a requirement for medical practitioners in order to perform invasive surgery.

Informed consent has zero to do with whether or not a professional fee is payable.

While I think the form and manner of the request for payment is all wrong, I don't doubt that payment is due.

wordofwarning

hullaballoo wrote: »

Do you specifically agree to charges when you get into a taxi?

But do you know when you get into a taxi whether or not you will get charged though?

If you are going 10 kms, do you know much it will cost you since the fares are standardised and regulated?