Social Media/Blogging Forum Charter Discussion - NO OTHER THREADS WHILE THIS IS OPEN

Zaph

It took a little longer than anticipated, but as promised here's the thread where you guys can discuss what sort of things you feel should be included/would like to see. First a few rules to ensure that this process goes smoothly as this isn't something we've ever tried before:

• Obviously the standard Boards rules will apply - no abuse, no advertising, etc., so there's no need to mention them.
  
• Please keep this discussion civil. If someone suggests something that you don't agree with, simply state that and why you don't agree with it. If you have an alternative suggestion, even better. Please don't personalise the discussion.
  
• This thread will remain open for a week or so to give everyone plenty of time to add their 2c.

And now the big one:

NO OTHER THREADS ARE TO BE OPENED IN THIS FORUM WHILE THIS DISCUSSION IS RUNNING. THIS THREAD IS THE PRIORITY, SO WE DON'T WANT TO DISTRACT FROM IT.

And now over to you guys...

retro:electro

Great! Thanks so much for sticking with this Zaph! Very much appreciated.

retro:electro

For me, I'd like if the discussion around bloggers and #ad could continue. I think our last thread was very insightful and got a lot of people talking about the lack of transparency in the industry.
I think naming bloggers is imperative to this discussion. It's impossible to decipher who is being discussed when we can't name, so hopefully this is something that can continue.

mahamageehad

I'd like to see the forum used to discuss things such as ethics of bloggers/influencers (not just the use of #ad or not, but also wider implications such as influencers promoting dodgy science and false advertising), the art and skill of blogging and social promotion (e.g. people sharing examples of what has and hasn't worked for them in terms of content whether that's organic or ads), as well as general industry discussion (like "What new feature has Facebook copied from someone today" or "LinkedIn is becoming more and more like Facebook" or "YouTube CPM for video is one of the worst available today"). I also think it would be great if it could be used as a supportive resource for bloggers to help each other and discover each other, obviously that'd have to be carefully worded so it doesn't get too spammy.

Hollister11

I think as this is a social media and blogging forum, posters should be allowed include links to promote their blogs and social media.

Zaph

Thanks for the input so far guys, but while it's great that you're suggesting what the forum could be used for, could you please also give some thought as to whether any provisions need to be made in the forum charter for your suggestion. For example, I know there was a lot of discussion about #ad previously, but should we have rules in place so if someone linked to their own blog, for example, they would be obliged to include #ad in their post if it warranted it. Maybe that's too simplistic, I don't know because I have zero interest in blogs and not much more in social media in general, so that's why we're asking the people who do have an interest to help us shape the charter and, by extension, the forum.

mahamageehad

Oh, I get you now Zaph, I'll elaborate on my points above in the morning with regard to charter considerations!

LizT

I would like to see people be able to promote their own blog, but maybe limited to one thread? Because it would get annoying if people continually post about their blog over several threads.

Maybe we could do a thread for a featured blog every few weeks?

Wexy86

Maybe no new registered accounts or a specified number of posts? In the previous threads there were a lot of new accounts that just came in for their two cents/to stir and left off in the middle of conversation or just had nothing constructive to add.

njs030

Wexy86 wrote: »

Maybe no new registered accounts or a specified number of posts? In the previous threads there were a lot of new accounts that just came in for their two cents/to stir and left off in the middle of conversation or just had nothing constructive to add.

Perhaps something similar to the soccer forum that a poster has to have x number of posts to join and will be removed for x amount of time if they cause trouble.

silvervixen84

Wexy86 wrote: »

Maybe no new registered accounts or a specified number of posts? In the previous threads there were a lot of new accounts that just came in for their two cents/to stir and left off in the middle of conversation or just had nothing constructive to add.

Was just about to say this. Accounts with very few posts often caused the most trouble in the previous threads, bringing them off topic and causing them to be closed.

Also agree with LizT that promotion of members' own blogs should be restricted to one thread, and bloggers should have to give a brief description of what their blog is about when they post in that thread.

I'm OK with a discussion about use of #ad or #spon once people don't use it as an excuse to be catty about someone they don't like. They're still people at the end of the day, and will probably be watching this forum like hawks.

Some of the points from the Celeb & Showbiz charter would apply here too:

Replying "Who?" to show disregard for an influencer shouldn't be allowed - use Google.

No unfounded allegations about influencers that could lead to libel action against Boards (seems obvious but needs to be spelled out). e.g. I heard that Blogger X gets lipo while selling body bootcamps. No proof, no post.

retro:electro

Also when we are referring to a point, where applicable, we should maybe link the blog or social media page in question.
I'm guilty of this myself but in the last thread a lot of comments were reprimanded for derailing the thread. So sticking to the topic at hand should be a rule. Also avoiding slanderous statements and saying something like "she's a liar", instead changing it to "I don't think he/she's being very truthful" and maybe link to why you think this.

A_smurf

I think the bloggers involved should be allowed to join the discussion. They would have be verifed to be who they say they are and not just to have a throwaway account to stir up trouble or defend said blogger on their behalf. In the previous threads a couple of the bloggers discussed did sign up to boards and joined the discussions in a civilised debate from their point of view and gave their insights. They were also able to take some of the concerns from the posters about the use of #ad and promoted products and content on board with their own blogs and social media posts.

mahamageehad

mahamageehad wrote: »

I'd like to see the forum used to discuss things such as ethics of bloggers/influencers (not just the use of #ad or not, but also wider implications such as influencers promoting dodgy science and false advertising),

Based on previous threads, a lot of traffic to this forum is going to consist of people wanting to talk about what bloggers/influencers are or aren't doing. This is going to be the most difficult area to control too, so I think the guidelines should be very strict. (For the purposes of the rest of this post, when I say bloggers I mean bloggers, social media influencers, youtubers and any other people who create content online for the general public, whether they do it for commercial incentives or not.)

• I think people should be allowed to discuss bloggers and the content they produce. This information is in the public sphere, so I don't think that people should have to hint at who they're talking about and should be able to name the blogger/influencer.
• Right of reply needs to be considered. If we are all talking about blogger Y, and then a poster joins claiming to be blogger Y, I think there needs to be some kind of mod-check or proof given. Otherwise I think it's very easy for people to "fake" being someone, and that's potentially an issue for boards. Bloggers have joined those threads in the past (and others often read them even if they don't comment), and they have the right to join and make a reply, but I do think there needs to be some kind of safeguard in place, particularly for new users.
• The #ad threads were great, and people found them quite informative. However, they were often dragged off topic by other blogger related convo. I would suggest having dedicated threads for these topics. How that would work is up for debate but I think there should be a dedicated disclosure thread (#ad or #spon discussion and who is/isn't doing it) and a separate general blogging discussion thread. E.g. "Blogger X was at an event with Blogger Y and they both shared posts of these amazing goodie bags but Blogger X never posted #ad unlike Blogger Y" is a great post for the disclosure thread, while "Blogger X recently posted quite a nasty message to a user when asked where she bought a certain outfit" would be a better fit for the discussion thread. In my experience, the majority of bloggers discussed here on boards are beauty/lifestyle so maybe one discussion thread would suffice or you could split it out into different areas like travel, food, lifestyle/beauty etc. A dedicated discussion thread (or threads) would also stop things like dedicated threads on what Blogger X is doing, which I think could very quickly get into bullying territory.
• I think a strict attack the content, not the blogger policy needs to be in place. Blogger discussion threads are often dragged into "bitchy" or slanderous territory, especially by non-frequent users. Something like "Blogger X is promoting a vitamin water cleanse to lose weight this week. Didn't she recently promote a different cleanse? Based on her posts, it doesn't seem to be effective" is ok while "Blogger X has seriously let herself go lately" is not. Basically an extension of the attack the post not the poster policy. I agree with posters that recommended no-anonymous posting here and potentially a higher post count before they can post. Standards need to be high as there's a potential for these posts and threads to appear once the blogger in question is googled, this wasn't as much of an issue when people weren't being named.
• No proof, no post should also be embedded in the charter somewhere. It's a little broader than attack the content, not the blogger as people could misrepresent content or a bloggers words, or use them out of context.

the art and skill of blogging and social promotion (e.g. people sharing examples of what has and hasn't worked for them in terms of content whether that's organic or ads), as well as general industry discussion (like "What new feature has Facebook copied from someone today" or "LinkedIn is becoming more and more like Facebook" or "YouTube CPM for video is one of the worst available today").

I don't think that there's much here that requires specific charter rules as these are basically just areas of discussion.

I also think it would be great if it could be used as a supportive resource for bloggers to help each other and discover each other, obviously that'd have to be carefully worded so it doesn't get too spammy.

A dedicated thread for bloggers to share their latest blog post or video would be awesome. I also like the idea mentioned previously of having a featured blog every week. I think this could take more of an interview form, people sign up in a thread to have their blog promoted, then once a week an "interview" type post is added from that user with their blog URL, the top 3 posts from their blog they'd like people to read, a few words on why they started blogging maybe, some blogs that they follow religiously etc. So it's more about community and less people just spamming their links. I think a feedback thread could also be invaluable so people can ask others to review their stuff. Some of that's a bit chatty again, so with regard to the charter:

• One dedicated thread for sharing Boardsie blogs/blog posts. Potentially make it compulsory to provide a short description of the blog/post.
• Maybe keep requests for feedback in a separate thread too?
• Absolutely no affiliate links
• I would also ban begging ("click here to vote for my friend Moira to win a dress") or giveaways/competitions etc. by bloggers. The former is just annoying while the latter I would see as a commercial venture which needs to run through the appropriate boards channels.

allym

Fully agree that discussion about the content while naming the blogger should be allowed but not just bitchy comments for the sake of it.


As said above stating that someone is being paid to promote a product that they are clearly not using is ok. Saying "obviously not using it going by the state of her/him/them" isn't.

heyjude88

I think we should be able to name the companies who don't make bloggers use #ad. Also companies who get around this by saying they have brand ambassadors who don't need to #ad it. I think previous discussions in other threads made certain companies step up. Big corporations such as Boots always make sure bloggers who work with them use it, so why not Irish companies.

allym

heyjude88 wrote: »

I think we should be able to name the companies who don't make bloggers use #ad. Also companies who get around this by saying they have brand ambassadors who don't need to #ad it. I think previous discussions in other threads made certain companies step up. Big corporations such as Boots always make sure bloggers who work with them use it, so why not Irish companies.

Absolutely. I have been put off many brands because of not being open/honest about using bloggers as advertising.

scarbouro

So when can we actually start discussing stuff and start new threads?

Zaph

Zaph wrote: »

[*]This thread will remain open for a week or so to give everyone plenty of time to add their 2c.[/LIST]

We'll see if we can put together a working charter as quickly as possible after that so that we can get the forum up and running properly.

Ray37

Hey Zaph, I finally got access yahooo! Thanks so much for getting on board with this, I think from previous threads we were really beginning to see some changes in the shadier blogging practices in Ireland, and I'd love to see this continue.
I'd like to be allowed name bloggers, however, bitchy and unfounded claims must not be shared. However, this shouldnt limit discussing bloggers/influencers who are not being truthful, and trying to pull the wool over their followers eyes. Let's ensure that evidence of such claims is shared to support any such claims. 
Discussion of #ad/spon and lack thereof should continue.
Bloggers product reviews, and discussion of the manufacturing/white labeling process. 
Just a few points there that I think are beneficial to be discussed

mahamageehad

Just had a thought on this, would it be allowed for boardsies to screenshot a snapchat say and post it here? *technically* it's public, but snapchats are designed to disappear after a set time. Same with tweets or IGs or whatever that the author deletes after a certain time for whatever reason.

Good to see you made it in Ray!

Ray37

[font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Mahamageehad I think we should definitely be able to post screenshots and tweets, sure they are already public anyway [/font]

mahamageehad

Ray37 wrote: »

[font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Mahamageehad I think we should definitely be able to post screenshots and tweets, sure they are already public anyway [/font]

Yeah, I mean you can even embed tweets, it's more the screenshots of Snapchats that are no longer available or tweets that have been deleted that I'd be thinking of here, and the former more so than the latter. Is there potentially data protection issues? Remember recently there was a blogger (US maybe?) shamed for snapchatting a shot of a heavy girl in a gym changing room, the blogger pulled the image after being (rightly) shamed, but I remember some mutterings of whether the screenshot was problematic too.

miamee

mahamageehad wrote: »

I'd like to see the forum used to discuss things such as ethics of bloggers/influencers (not just the use of #ad or not, but also wider implications such as influencers promoting dodgy science and false advertising), the art and skill of blogging and social promotion (e.g. people sharing examples of what has and hasn't worked for them in terms of content whether that's organic or ads), as well as general industry discussion (like "What new feature has Facebook copied from someone today" or "LinkedIn is becoming more and more like Facebook" or "YouTube CPM for video is one of the worst available today"). I also think it would be great if it could be used as a supportive resource for bloggers to help each other and discover each other, obviously that'd have to be carefully worded so it doesn't get too spammy.

This sounds good - if it just turns into a forum for discussion of the use/lack of use of #ad and #spon it'll be pretty dull.

retro:electro

miamee wrote: »

This sounds good - if it just turns into a forum for discussion of the use/lack of use of #ad and #spon it'll be pretty dull.

Agreed and it's one of the reasons why the last thread in the other forum got sidetracked so quickly and had so much unnecessarily heavy moderator involvement. We were literally only allowed to discuss bloggers and #ad. Nothing else! So if we wanted to say anything else we'd have to sandwich it in between ad discussion and hope nobody noticed lol.
General discussion should be allowed, but again no nasty comments.

mahamageehad

mahamageehad wrote: »

Yeah, I mean you can even embed tweets, it's more the screenshots of Snapchats that are no longer available or tweets that have been deleted that I'd be thinking of here, and the former more so than the latter. Is there potentially data protection issues? Remember recently there was a blogger (US maybe?) shamed for snapchatting a shot of a heavy girl in a gym changing room, the blogger pulled the image after being (rightly) shamed, but I remember some mutterings of whether the screenshot was problematic too.

Relevant backup from earlier. It's from the UK though, but potentially something to be wary about here even if it's not been directly legislated for? (Link)

“Under UK copyright law, it would be unlawful for a Snapchat user to copy an image and make it available to the public without the consent of the image owner,” the minister warned.

“The image owner would be able to sue anyone who does this for copyright infringement.

“Snapchat photos are automatically deleted after 10 seconds. The Snapchat privacy policy states that if Snapchat is able to detect that a recipient has taken a screenshot of an image, they will try to inform the original poster.

“However, Snapchat advises users to avoid sending messages which they would not want to be saved or shared.”

scarbouro

So this thread had been open for 2 weeks now. Is it possible to start new threads and start discussing?

mahamageehad

I don't think so @Scarbouro until there's a charter in place.

Maybe Zaph, Liz or Silvervixen can give us an update on that?

Zaph

Sorry guys, the delay is mainly down to me as I've had a few other things going on and didn't get back to this as quickly as I would have liked. The mods are going to use this thread to take suggestions from and build an initial charter. It may require some tweaks afterwards, but hopefully we can get the basics in place in the next few days and allow you to post properly here.

Thanks again for your input here and also your patience.

Zaph

mahamageehad

Thanks Zaph!

biko

LizT wrote: »

I would like to see people be able to promote their own blog, but maybe limited to one thread? Because it would get annoying if people continually post about their blog over several threads.

If you like I can push over this. Let me know when/if this is ok.

I will also make a sticky (when I get go-ahead from you) in "Blogs / Wikis / Social Media" with link to your forum and explain the difference between the two forums.

Please feel free to push over any threads that are of a technical nature.

Cria

Zaph wrote: »

Sorry guys, the delay is mainly down to me as I've had a few other things going on and didn't get back to this as quickly as I would have liked. The mods are going to use this thread to take suggestions from and build an initial charter. It may require some tweaks afterwards, but hopefully we can get the basics in place in the next few days and allow you to post properly here.

Thanks again for your input here and also your patience.

Zaph

How close are we to being up and running

LizT

Hi everyone,
Please find the link for the charter below. After reading through the charter, feel free to start threads and start posting!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=103848684#post103848684