How to deal with an enabler

Nyssa

Advice please.
My nephew has been hooked on weed and other stuff since the age of 16. He identifies as gay, walked out of school, took up with a guy twice his age who pimped him out for money for drugs. His mother is out of the picture. After several beatings/fights/he drank like crazy-this lasted 3 years, and now he's in some appalling state "education"* scheme, populated by losers like himself, drug addicted travellers and drug addicted immigrants.
My mother has always been there to help him, providing him with a home, food, health insurance, clothing, and has paid his court fines. She thinks she's "containing" the situation. I tell her she's a classic enabler and that she's effectively hobbling him for life by cushioning his every problem. It's gotten to the stage where I think it's better to write off my relationship with my mother off because she refuses to see the prolonged damage she is causing, and I am so angry and frustrated
Any advice?
*"education" seems to be a state enabling situation for these useless clearly damaged people run by other damaged beings

GingerLily

I feel very sorry for your mother and I can see why she's trying to be empathetic, as long as he's not stealing from her the only inappropriate thing I can see she's doing in paying the court fines?

Another day

I would suggest you and your mother attend Al-Anon for advice and support. Yes she is enabling him but I can understand her reasoning, that is not saying she or you are right. You need professional help and advice.

Don't abandon your mother. Be proud to have her in your life as she is obviously a very caring woman.

Big Bag of Chips

Please don't be so hard on your mother. None of this is her fault. She's not responsible for your nephew turning into the person he has become. She may feel responsible for him because his mother has disappeared. People who enable loved ones do it out of love. They believe that they are helping. They believe that the person will see sense someday. They know the person is struggling and they try to make things easier for you them in the hope that they won't lose themselves altogether. Of course that never happens, but people all over the world, from every sort of background enable loved ones.

The best thing you can do for your mother is ease of on the judgement and disapproval. You could suggest to her that she goes to Al-Anon. It is a support group for families living with an addict. She's in a difficult position and is only doing what she believes to be the right thing. Don't underestimate how difficult it is to stop enabling someone.

Teyla Emmagan

Your mother is doing what family do. Do you want her to abandon him completely? Because he's not going to sort his life out. He'd be more likely to end up dead. Your nephew has huge problems, he's not going to suddenly "cop on". Support your mum, she needs you.

Nyssa

Thanks for the advice.
The guy has become a habitual liar, schemer, and can make himself look the victim. The rest of us have effectively written him off. He has been afforded every opportunity under the sun, and has thrown them back at us with a smirk. When he has to pay the bills and feed himself, and take responsibility for his actions, only then will he alter his behaviour. Should he decide to wish to live with others addled by drink and drugs, that is his choice. His behaviour has been outrageous, and if I heard that he had died from an overdose or been killed, that would be a relief. He's a privileged white male living in a western society, with no bombs falling on him or anyone trying to decapitate him. We have bent over backwards trying to help him, and even some of the more compassionate gardai have witnessed how he talks to his grandmother, and have said that they would dearly love to give him a hiding,
Yes, my mother is an amazing person, but at 73 years of age she needs to see that he's using her and that a little tough love is now in order.

Ursus Horribilis

It's alarming that you seem to feel you need to write off your relationship with your mother though. Don't do anything that'll leave you with regrets.

Big Bag of Chips

Al-Anon mightn't be a bad idea for you too. Your nephew's behaviour is no different to most addicts. I've known a few. They can convince even themselves that they are telling truth. All addicts lie. All addicts manipulate. They all make those around them feel bad for them. My friend was married to an abusive addict. Even after leaving him 3 years ago he still has the power to make her feel sorry for him. Addiction isn't the privilege of deprived people or deprived areas, it is every where and across all 'classes'.

If you've all very obviously turned your backs, maybe your mother thinks she has no choice but 'be there for him'. It's not easy as you'd like to think. He is her child's child. She feels a sense of duty that you don't.

LLMMLL

It's hard to tell whether you still care somewhat for your nephew and think your mother playing hardball with him would help him get better.

On the other hand it sounds like you've written him off and don't care what happens to him anymore. If this is the case then just ask your mother not to discuss her dealings with him to you anymore. You won't have to hear she bailed him out and this should help with your anger.

Teyla Emmagan

So when you say you're looking for advice you're just looking for advice as to how to persuade your mother to cut her grandson off? That's your mother's decision OP. You may hate to see her being taken advantage of but it's up to her I'm afraid. I'm sure she's not stupid. She's just choosing to hope. You would be better off accepting that and not letting the situation annoy you.

Ursus Horribilis

Your mum is going through a hard time and may need support and a friend. The last thing she needs is your anger. Don't let her go through this on her own. As I alluded to earlier, your mum is now in her autumn years. Don't say or do anything you'll regret because you'll have many a year to reflect on how you treated your mum.

pilly

Nyssa wrote: »

Thanks for the advice.
The guy has become a habitual liar, schemer, and can make himself look the victim. The rest of us have effectively written him off. He has been afforded every opportunity under the sun, and has thrown them back at us with a smirk. When he has to pay the bills and feed himself, and take responsibility for his actions, only then will he alter his behaviour. Should he decide to wish to live with others addled by drink and drugs, that is his choice. His behaviour has been outrageous, and if I heard that he had died from an overdose or been killed, that would be a relief. He's a privileged white male living in a western society, with no bombs falling on him or anyone trying to decapitate him. We have bent over backwards trying to help him, and even some of the more compassionate gardai have witnessed how he talks to his grandmother, and have said that they would dearly love to give him a hiding,
Yes, my mother is an amazing person, but at 73 years of age she needs to see that he's using her and that a little tough love is now in order.

You would really rather see him dead? I don't believe that.

How old is he? Because that is important here.

Nyssa

pilly wrote: »

You would really rather see him dead? I don't believe that.

How old is he? Because that is important here.

Yes I would.
He's 22. A dangerous and manipulative. That's how one of the Gardai described him to me, and he was spot on.

pilly

Nyssa wrote:

Yes I would. He's 22. A dangerous and manipulative. That's how one of the Gardai described him to me, and he was spot on.

I have nothing to respond to that other than that the reality of a 22 year old dying is a lot worse than anything you're going through at the moment.

njs030

Nyssa wrote: »

Yes I would.
He's 22. A dangerous and manipulative. That's how one of the Gardai described him to me, and he was spot on.

Then you walk away but you don't have the right to force other people to do so.
Your mother feels like she needs to help him and if all you can do is wish him dead (whixh is really sad!) then you should ask her not to discuss it with you.

He sounds like he's had a terrible life and desperately needs support and counselling. Many people go through a very bad patch and come out the other side.
Gardai aren't trained to deal with mental health issues at all, I wouldn't be taking his diagnosis as gospel.

Nyssa

pilly wrote: »

I have nothing to respond to that other than that the reality of a 22 year old dying is a lot worse than anything you're going through at the moment.

It might put into perspective what we as a family have suffered that we would welcome such an outcome. I believe the damage he has done to himself is such that there is no coming back for him.

pilly

Nyssa wrote:

It might put into perspective what we as a family have suffered that we would welcome such an outcome. I believe the damage he has done to himself is such that there is no coming back for him.

No it doesn't put it into perspective.

It's just not true that there's no hope for a 22 year old and your attitude is disgusting.

If you can't keep opinions like that to yourself then I think you'd do best to stay away from your mother cause she doesn't need that level of bile on top of what she's managing.

Nyssa

pilly wrote: »

No it doesn't put it into perspective.

It's just not true that there's no hope for a 22 year old and your attitude is disgusting.

If you can't keep opinions like that to yourself then I think you'd do best to stay away from your mother cause she doesn't need that level of bile on top of what she's managing.

You're entitled to your opinion.
And I to mine.

Ursus Horribilis

So what if your mother died in the morning (god forbid)? Are you OK with the idea that her last impressions of you were as an angry person spitting venom? Let's leave aside your nephew for a minute. What about the effect your attitude is having in your mother. You're so obviously consumed by bitterness and hatred you don't seem capable of seeing beyond your nephew.

Nyssa

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

<Mod Snip> No need to quote the entire preceding post.

I'm amazed how some of you can judge me. I've only related a small account of this guy's behaviour. It's been 6 years of unimaginable hell for all the family. He has proven himself in our eyes to be dangerous and utterly useless. At this stage he's severely damaged from his drug habit, and that is the opinion of the psychiatrists who have dealt with him.
Do you seriously think that someone can be apparently so cold and uncaring by nature? Walk in our shoes. For my family, the Irish term ciall ceannaithe rings so very true.

Ursus Horribilis

Nyssa, I WAS NOT trying to defend your nephew in my post. Or judge you for that matter. I honestly don't care if he's the devil incarnate. I take your word for it that he's a scum bag of the highest order.

What I have been trying to ask, without success, is what effect this is having with YOUR relationship with your mother.

It's gotten to the stage where I think it's better to write off my relationship with my mother off because she refuses to see the prolonged damage she is causing, and I am so angry and frustrated

Perhaps you could come back and explain what writing off your relationship with your mother entails, instead of ranting about your nephew. Like I said, I get that he is scum and has caused all sorts of problems Are you trying to tell us that you are prepared to cut contact with your mother? Hurt her? Isolate her? All because she's not dealing with this person in the way you see fit.

Be very careful what you wish for. Your mother's not going to be around forever.

njs030

Nyssa wrote: »

I'm amazed how some of you can judge me. I've only related a small account of this guy's behaviour. It's been 6 years of unimaginable hell for all the family. He has proven himself in our eyes to be dangerous and utterly useless. At this stage he's severely damaged from his drug habit, and that is the opinion of the psychiatrists who have dealt with him.
Do you seriously think that someone can be apparently so cold and uncaring by nature? Walk in our shoes. For my family, the Irish term ciall ceannaithe rings so very true.

That's your call to make, but you are trying to make your mother do things your way which isnt your choice.

Big Bag of Chips

Your mother can't influence your nephew to behave differently.

You can't influence your mother to behave differently.

As adults you all make your own choices. Your nephews choices are clouded by addiction, some would say he doesn't actually decide anymore. Your mother's choice are clouded by love for your nephew.

It's not a simple situation and it's not as simple as your nephew giving up his ways or your mother practicing some tough love. If it were that simple there would be no need for the likes of Al-Anon. It's frustrating to look in from the outside, but honestly, there's nothing you can do. You can try speak to your mother, not at her! I have a feeling that you are making your views very clear to her. Be careful of alienating her and maybe making her even more vulnerable to your nephew's manipulation.

Your mother hasn't done anything necessarily wrong except believe in someone who will always let her down. Deep down she knows that. But for now it's easier to feel like she's helping than to walk away. It's complicated. Human life, human emotions and human failings are all entwined.

pilly

Nyssa wrote:

You're entitled to your opinion. And I to mine.

Of course you are. What you're not entitled to do is foist those opinions on to your mother who obviously doesn't want her grandson to die.

Ben Gadot

What's so appalling about a state education scheme? I'm not saying your nephew is doing it for genuine reasons but there are many who are, addicted and all. People deserve respect for that.

As for your mother enabling him, I learnt a long time a go that there's no way around a deep connection such as the one your mother feels for her grandchild. It's unfortunate and disgraceful that your nephew manipulates her so but the only love she knows how to give him is soft, and can't be tough.

If you can't deal with that then go ahead and cut your mother off, but I can guarantee that your life will be poorer for it.

As for your nephew, I've also learned that chaps like himself will solve their relatives problem eventually. He'll do something eventually that the gardai can't turn a blind eye to so just be patient and try and be kind to your mother. You don't have to approve of how she deals with him, but that doesn't mean your own personal relationship can't be good.

Ave Sodalis

OP, have you yourself gone for help? You seem to harbour an unhealthy amount of hatred for your nephew. I think it would do you a lot of good.

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skallywag

Nyssa wrote: »

It's gotten to the stage where I think it's better to write off my relationship with my mother off because she refuses to see the prolonged damage she is causing

You are seriously considering walking away from your own relationship with your mother because of these issues with your cousin? I'm not seeing any logic in this

pilly

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I don't think it's unhelpful at all. I lost my own brother to alcoholism so I do know what I'm talking about.

And I'd do anything for him to be still alive.

To write off a 22 year old is just not an option. There is always hope, I've seen many people recover from alcoholism and drug addiction and go on to live very productive and happy lives.

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pilly

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You're delighted for me that my brother died?

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Big Bag of Chips

Mod Note:

pilly and ......., please stick to offering advice to the OP rather than getting into an over and back between yourselves. The beauty of seeking advice online is that people get to hear varying advice and opinion. Some of it may not be what an OP came to hear, some of it may seem harsh, but much of it can be valid and we hope make an OP consider their options.

I would ask all posters to keep in mind "constructive, civil advice" at all times when posting in this forum.

Also, there is no need to quote the preceding post in it's entirety when replying. It just clogs up a thread with duplicate text.

LirW

OP, this is a very delicate situation and I can kind of understand where you're coming from.
Frankly, you're very worked up and in my opinion the best thing to do is to walk away - at least for a while. I think what really pains you is to see your mother like this, but it is not up to you to change her. This is her own choice and if this hurts you so much, cut contact to a minimum or cut it off completely.
You're so full of unhappiness, you need to focus on yourself really. Do whatever it takes to free yourself from this situation, get counselling for your own sake and maybe go on a holiday. Walk away from this heartbreaking situation, because it pains you. Don't begrudge her please, she's her own person and made a decision. Again, I can't imagine how it pains you to see a loved one being used like this, but this is such a delicate topic with a horrible addiction involved.

My only cousin is 24 and he got on with the wrong people at the age of 13. We spent a lovely childhood together but he got really bad, addiction involved, his mother simply doesn't care and enables him completely. A war started over this boy and since he was so impossible to reach I cut ties with my aunt and him because it would destroy me seeing him just wasting his most wonderful years. I can't change him, we all tried, we all backed him up and it caused nothing but misery, his mother got so defensive over him because nobody says a bad word about her darling son. I decided to walk away and haven't heard from him in a few years, neither haven't had any contact to my aunt. The only thing I know is that he somehow finished his apprenticeship, was let go right afterwards and decided to be unemployed, still living at home and taking drugs.
I really feel for you and I had to take myself out of it.

Nyssa

sup_dude wrote: »

OP, have you yourself gone for help? You seem to harbour an unhealthy amount of hatred for your nephew. I think it would do you a lot of good.

Attempted to set fire to my vehicle, broke into my property and trashed the place, assault, threats to kill and more significant property damage. AT my mother's pleading I didn't press charges. I regret that and wish I had done. A spell in prison might have taught hum a lesson, or he might have committed suicide, a win either way. He is scum, Simple as that. He had more than most, and took a conscious decision to throw it all away. I feel no connection with him.

Ben Gadot

I'm not being funny OP but do you not think that is enabling in itself? You absolutely had the right to press charges and while your mother may have been devastated at the time, she whould have seen sense. Deep down I'd say she knows it as well.

That's the kind of thing I meant earlier, you had the power to help the gards. You should have for everyone's sake. Maybe you know that and that's why you're so angry at your mother.

Ave Sodalis

Nyssa wrote:

Attempted to set fire to my vehicle, broke into my property and trashed the place, assault, threats to kill and more significant property damage. AT my mother's pleading I didn't press charges. I regret that and wish I had done. A spell in prison might have taught hum a lesson, or he might have committed suicide, a win either way. He is scum, Simple as that. He had more than most, and took a conscious decision to throw it all away. I feel no connection with him.

But would you consider help for yourself? Even if it's not AlAnon, just a regular counsellor. Justified or not, that amount of anger and hatred does have an effect and if left undealt with, can cause a lot of physical and mental problems.

Big Bag of Chips

Nyssa wrote: »

I feel no connection with him.

But your mother does. As I said before this isn't a simple scenario. It's complicated. It's messy and it affects everyone connected to your nephew, either directly or indirectly. You love your mother and as a result you did what she begged you to do. That's no different to what she does for your nephew.

As has been repeated multiple times now, you can't change anyone else. You can only look after yourself. Which means getting yourself counselling, or going to Al-Anon. There will be people there who are enabling their loved ones, and there will be people who are watching others enable their loved ones.

It won't change your nephew, it won't change your mother unless she goes herself, but it will help you.

Ursus Horribilis

So what's your plan regarding your mother?