New Garden Shed

Seve OB

So we currently have a crappy barna shed, about 6foot by 8foot. We also have a ketter box similar to this one. Garden is small enough, now home to another mini play house shed for the kids. We have no room left in them, I can't even get into the shed, but very little stuff to throw out, if anything at all. Kids are growing up, bikes now for 5 people takes up the most room. I have plenty of decent tools with proper tables that I use a bit, but sure I can't bloody get to them! Would ideally love to have them set up permanently, might use them a bit more. I have a few jobs to do, but it takes so long to get the shed empty, to get the stuff out, set up the table etc, then do a small job, then take it all down and tidy away..... PITA.

Been considering a new shed for a while now, so options are, build or buy! Either way, it will have to replace and go where the original one is, so that causes enough problems in itself because we have nowhere to put everything during the transition. I like the idea of a build, I'm not afraid of the challenge and think it could give better results, sturdier, build it higher, put doors and windows in suitable locations, even insulate it. A prefabricated shed will be quite restricted in size I'm sure. Could I do it cheaper myself? I'm not sure on what kind of wood etc to use. Could I use salvaged wood? Maybe pallats? Anyway, all for another day, it won't happen anytime soon I reckon, but I need to start dreaming so posting here will hopefully get the ball rolling.

But I think as a start and something to work on this summer might be getting rid of the ketter box and putting in some kind of shed just for the bikes, maybe that we could hang on the wall similar to this. Include some shelves higher up to house bits and pieces. It would be going against a high wallsplitting the neighbours garden, so no real problem going high up, but there are windows on our back wall, which is at right angles, so we can't come out to far. Might not need a back on the shed as can use the wall.

I can't find any sheds that might be suitable though, so it looks like I might have to build one myself. (and a nice excuse to get the table set up ) Then at least that might just free up a bit of room in the main shed!

Right2Write

Seve OB wrote: »

So we currently have a crappy barna shed, about 6foot by 8foot. ...........

Been considering a new shed for a while now, so options are, build or buy! Either way, it will have to replace and go where the original one is,

If it's got to take up the same space, surely you just end up in the same situation, except with a possibly better built shed?

If you want a better job, you'd do worse than lay a reinforced concrete slab and then build off it with 9" cavity blocks. Erect roof timbers and cover with metal profile sheeting.

Seve OB

same place but it will be a bigger footprint, there is some dead space behind and to the side of current shed and i'll come out into the gaden a bit more
thinking i'll probably look at something like 10ft*12

yea i know concrete will be better, but longer to build and more expensive.

if I go with wood structure, i'm thinking of building the frame of the shed in sections, floor, then each wall, doors and roof panels, that way i could build them up over a period of time, then just take a couple of days off work to strip down the old and assemble the new

Mulbert

Build all the way, with pictures!

I'm thinking to do the same almost to a tee.

Seve OB

Mulbert wrote: »

Build all the way, with pictures!

I'm thinking to do the same almost to a tee.

kinda why I started this thread, give me a goal to work towards, I have been thinking about it for long enough.....can't beat the satisfaction of completing a good DIY task

Would love to do it with recycled wood where possible, just not sure how easy it will be to source decent stuff that will be up to the weather bashing it will get in this country!!!!

wait4me

Why not use pallets or the wood from pallets?

Dr_Colossus

Seve OB wrote: »

Would love to do it with recycled wood where possible, just not sure how easy it will be to source decent stuff that will be up to the weather bashing it will get in this country!!!!

You could slab the outside of it with cement board after and skim plaster that then, would make it very solid, weather proof and look the business especially if the reclaimed wood was very bitty/different lengths and widths.

I will be doing something similar maybe next year when I get other internal projects finished first but I think I'll go the cement block route.

Right2Write

wait4me wrote: »

Why not use pallets or the wood from pallets?

In my experience, the quality of timber in pallets varies a lot, from the flimsy disposable types to more solid constructions meant for repeated use.

Unless you have access to a good pile of pallets all of same type and size, it'd just be extra work. Easiest to work with materials of consistent size and quality.

Without investigating it fully, I wouldn't be entirely convinced about differences in cost between a timber and block built small shed structure. If you're purchasing your materials from a standard builders providers etc., timber & sheet cladding etc is not cheap.

Seve OB

wait4me wrote: »

Why not use pallets or the wood from pallets?

yea deffo an option i considered. i'm sure they would be ideal for the floor inside anyway, but would they work on the outside?
aren't there certain types of pallets that you shouldn't re-use?

hesker

Pallets sounds like a major headache.

There are some brilliant videos on youtube on building timber frame houses. Can't remember the guys name but will look it up if I remember.

I'm in the process of building my own 25m2 shed, all from timber. Will hopefully have it completed over the summer. I have lots of photos and a daily written log but I have no free time to post it because I'm too busy.

Here's my learnings

Timber is a lot of work. Initial framing and roof is not too bad but there is still a lot of work if you want to insulate it and keep insects & vermin out.

Put in a concrete foundation and insulated slab. You can't put timber directly into earth and have to have a 150mm gap for ventilation to prevent rot. I had no access to the back for a concrete delivery so I couldn't put in a slab.

Blockwork is simpler as you don't have to worry about rainy days as much. Less materials to worry about also.

Plan it carefully if you want to avoid planning permission and make sure you are within the regs.

Get an engineer to advise on structural elements. You don't want it falling down on anyone.

There is loads of information available on every aspect but it takes a lot of reading.

I got 3 quotes from builders and decided to do it myself. It will cost me about 25% of the cheapest quote and I bought very good materials.

In terms of time it has cost me 2 full weeks of holidays together with evening work. I have continued to take weekends off on a regular basis because you don't want it to become all consuming.

It will be 12 months from start to finish. At the start I thought I would have it done in 6. You can't get too much done in the winter with the short days.

wait4me

Right2Write wrote: »

In my experience, the quality of timber in pallets varies a lot, from the flimsy disposable types to more solid constructions meant for repeated use.

I agree but worth considering. But as hesker said "sounds like a major headache" using them would mean a lot of pre-planning and gathering.

Seve OB

Nice one Hesker. I think you have hit the big nail on the head....PLANING it right is the key.

Love to see some pics of yours at some stage

jeepcj

I built a nice shed out of timber years ago, I used 4"x2" on 16" centres for the walls and treated ship lap on the outside walls. I used treated 4"x3" timber for the floor and sheeted it with 18mm wbp. For the roof i used 18mm particle board and sheeted it with roofing felt, Ideally I should have used tin but was worried about condensation. It was a really nice shed until it caught fire in dec 2010 and burnt to the ground, sad day.

Seve OB

So frustrating, I cycled to work this morning as the traffic was so bad yesterday due to Bloom I wasn't facing it again today. Of course, I have to take half the shed out just to get at me bike! I would love to cycle in more, but it's just such a pain to get going in the morning, it definately is a barrier. Determination to do this is thing now!!!

Jeepcj, why did you use treated timber for the floor? In fairness the floor in my shed is as good as the day it went in first and I douibt that was treated... or could it have been? You went with wbp, do you think that is much better than osb?

I was thinking of using some 75*22 sawn timber for constructing the frame and sheeting that with some thin 12mm osb3 on the outside and cladding it with recycled wood from the old shed (i'll need more, maybe turn to adverts etc). insulate the 75 cavitys with some kingspan and wall the insides with some thin 9 or 12mm plywood.

Similar idea for the roof, maybe not 100mm though, maybe 50? don't want it to heavy! was then thinking of using some felt shingles similar to those I used when doing my old mans shed

Maybe use pallets for the floor, but I might try and pick up some cheap laminate flooring to throw down over whatever goes in to give a nice smooth finish, Might have a go at building a door - probably double doors and see if I can pick up an old window to incorporate in frame.

oh, and a mad idea and wuld be interested to hear your thoughts. One thing that bugs me with a shed is the lawnmower, it takes up so much space, but you can't exactly put it up on a shelf out of the way, and you can't store anything over it (well you can but thats when the mess starts.. lol. So, a half sized door in the corner of the shed, wide and tall enough to roll the lawnmower in and out of. but then box off the lawnmower, so this will give some space for shelving above it??

It should be noted that I do have the right tools for doing the job, impact driver(couldn't even contemplate this job without one!), track saw, router, proper table etc..

jeepcj

I went with treated 3x2's for the floor as it was in close contact with the ground and was worried about rot, I put them on 9" solid blocks so it wasn't direct on the dirt. I didn't want to go with the osb on the floor as it really swells when n contact with water so didn't want to risk it.I thought a put a picture in the first response but its gone so i'll try again

slavedave

Hesker has really good points. Here are my experiences...

I built my first shed this Spring for the same reasons as you - large family (with bikes), wanting to have space to work etc. I built a 12 x 9 timber frame, apex roofed shed.

• Wanted to lay a slab but time and cost ruled that out so built concrete piers to support a levelled and square frame (plumb. level and square are critical for shed builds - check regularly).
• Used treated 7" x 2" timber for base frame. Once that was in place i used more 7x2's to create the floor platform. Then built four separate stud wall frames using 4 x 1.5 inch treated timber (seven foot high to give me headroom at the sides of the shed). This would give me lots of space for storage shelving at the margins of the shed. the studwork was based on 18inch centres but I had to tweak this a little for the narrower walls. All the timber for the framing and base was free - I managed to salvage it from a roof that was being demolished (thanks Adverts.ie!). It saved several hundred euro but took a lot of time to de-nail and collect. I put a breather membrane around the whole frame. I used nails for fixing the base ( better shear strength than screws) and then good quality self cutting screws for the rest of the frame.
  
• I clad the shed in good quality treated shiplap from Goodwins (470 euro), built roof trusses out of more free salvaged timber and then but a membrane over that too. The roof was bought from a helpful company up near Dundalk - it was insulated metal clad profiles from end of line stock but was in perfect condition. Easy to cut with a jigsaw and a little care (don't use a grinder - it worked but was less precise). The roof with fixings was 270 euro which was a bargain for the amount of hassle it saved, the integrity of the structure and the fact that I won't have to replace felt ever again! And it looks top class.
• Door and double glazed windows were salvaged from a neighbour who happened to be getting hers replaced the day I started looking for them ( I had planned to adapt my build to fit any doors / windows I managed to find).
  
• Fitted an alarm and a solar powered shed light (Brilliant purchase - no more messy around with a torch).
• I scrounged some industrial lino from a local school who had a large offcut going into a skip so that has covered the floor well.
• Used Expanded foam to fill as many gaps at the roof / wall junction as I could find as well. It is definitely NOT air/insect tight but it is solid and over engineered.
  
• I had planned a two foot high apex but prior to truss construction I showed "the boss" how tall it would be and her face was enough to persuade me to drop that by a foot. I chatted to all the neighbours pre-build too to gauge their feelings about it since it would be visible at the rear of their gardens. Nothing wrong with keeping everyone in the loop. I am glad it is shorter than original plans, but the extra height would have been great for hanging bikes etc.. The reduced pitch of the roof was no problem for the roofing system but I did check before I made the changes.
• I checked with a construction friend around regs and he told me that for apex roofs I was well within the specs (I thing he said it was 3.5m for top of apex - lower for a single pitch, pent roof, and you can go right up to the boundary of your own property so long as it drains into your own land). I made sure that my roof drained to my own garden boundary.
  
• Total cost for the build was near 1000 euro in the end inc concrete/ hardware and fixings etc. It took about a week to build with long days of work (plus a couple of afternoons of sweaty work salvaging the timber). We initially priced a slightly smaller shed (12 x 8) for 1200 and the shortest waiting time was 3 weeks to receive it, hence I built one. I am confident that this shed uses better quality materials and is stronger than any I would have bought for a similar price but, more importantly, I LOVED the learning involved and the challenge of trying something new. Icing on the cake was when one of the neighbours asked me if I did it for a living!
  
• I have loads of space for storage now and have even built a workbench to go in their for future projects. I bet you will really enjoy building your own one too. It is very satisfying. I learnt everything off of youtube videos and a lot of internet searching. You can even find assembly plans for free (though most are USA sourced).
  
• Finally, if I was to do it again I would seriously consider using the insulated panels for the walls as well. They look very good and you can buy trim pieces for corners/ fascia etc When I was collecting the roof panels I tentatively asked about using them for walls and priced up for the same size shed. It would have been cheaper than the treated shiplap I bought, and would have provided an insulated carcass for a super-shed. Of course, this would have been dependent upon having enough of seconds / end of line panels in the same colour / profile to do it. Just a thought.

If I knew how to post photos I could show you it going up but I don't know how to.

Seve OB

Ok, So update is I've decided to start small and rather than going full tilt into the main shed, I will replace the ketter box we have. Unfortunately the area will not allow me to mount the bikes as I had hoped as I only have clearance of about 90cm from the wall to the front of the door,

Planning is definately key and I have been researching and looking out for timber. I'm not sure I am going to do this with reclaimed stuff as it will be to awkward, so going to just buy whatever I need.

Been playing around with sketchup and learning a bit about it, so trying to mock up a shed on it. I have it in my head, but getting it on paper isn't easy and I really need to get it all laid out so I know what materials I need and what to buy, nothing worse than being short and I don't want to be getting way to much.

So I'm thinking a pressure treated frame 50*44mm covered with some 9mm OSB3 and will put Shiplap cladding over that (well, will probably stick some sort of waterproof membrance between them). The shiplap that I think I am buying will be 144*18mm (maybe 22mm). The first section I will be doing will be narrow enough at only 750mm. Rest of the shed will mainly be a set of double doors. Would you use shiplap on the doors also?

My ideal finish would be to try and screw the cladding in discretely so that the fixings are hidden with a 25mm galvenised screw through the shiplap, OSB and into the frame. Is it a good idea to hide the fixings between the laps or could it risk the wood splitting and not giving a tight secure fix? Or would it be better to have the cladding screwed in with 35mm screws and going through the centre of the board?

One or 2 screws on each side? Do you think there is any need to fix at a centrepoint, I'm not so sure as they are only 750mm wide. Or would I be better off nailing the cladding?

I have an impact driver so screwing loads shouldn't be to much of an issue.
Would appreciate your opinions please

Seve OB

Tried my hand at learning Sketch Up.
It's not that difficult, but I made lots of errors but learnt a lot by them.
Think I have the main part of the plan laid down and now time to work out materials required. I reckon I should get out of it for €300.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP2dcZHg6xk

Seve OB

Got delayed with. Few family issues. Ordered the timber just before the bank holiday.
Construction is going well so far but slow as been doing it evenings and playing to much golf at weekends! Will post a few pics tomorrow

Seve OB

Few pics of the progress.

Heading golfing tomorrow so hoping for a nice day on Sunday to get the doors built and hung.

Seve OB

Getting there now

A busy week ahead so might not get to much done in the evenings, so hopefully will get to put the finishing touches to it next weekend.

Steve

What are you finishing the roof with?

I have some shingle tiles spare if you want them.

phkk

Great work Seve

Seve OB

Steve wrote: »

What are you finishing the roof with?

I have some shingle tiles spare if you want them.

Thanks Steve

If only I had of known that last week

I mustn't have done a very good job I have finished it with a roll of felt. I just Nailed it down ....... with lots of nails!!!

It is a sheet of OSB3, a layer of breather membrane and then some heavy felt. It is torch on stuff, but the supplier reckoned it is fine to just nail down on a project like this.

Steve

If it's the red felt in the pics, I wouldn't leave it like that. You'll get moisture in through the nails and the timber will eventually rot.

At the least, put some bitumen sealer over them.

Seve OB

Steve wrote: »

If it's the red felt in the pics, I wouldn't leave it like that. You'll get moisture in through the nails and the timber will eventually rot.

At the least, put some bitumen sealer over them.

yea thats it.

fair point I never really considered as most barna sheds just have felt nailed down like that. my own one is still fine after 13 years.

still have my work cut out learning all this stuff

Steve

Just had a look, not sure if what I have left over from my shed build would be enough but it might. you're welcome to it if you want to collect (South Dublin)... pm me. Can also advise on best way to make it waterproof as I learned the hard way lol..

Seve OB

4 years on and I just realised I never posted pics of the finished article. Took a few this evening
sorry, cont figure out how to flip them properly!!

hesker

Thanks for posting those. I have it in my head to build a storage area for the barbecue and what I had pictured is quite similar to what you have achieved. Nice work