False references

corelon

I had two people supply me with false work references and now suspect the reference for the previous landlord is also false. They claimed they lived in landlords house therefore there will be no rtb records.

They signed the tenancy agreement and supplied a deposit last week. I did not show the flat to anyone else since i received the deposit and now I am left with an empty flat. They were due to move in yesterday but after checking the references I am no longer going to rent to them.

I have talked to the police and RTB and both said I need to seek legal advise as to what to do with the deposit.

Does anyone know what I should do with the deposit as now i have an unrented flat due to these guys?

mugsymugsy

corelon wrote: »

I had two people supply me with false work references and now suspect the reference for the previous landlord is also false. They claimed they lived in landlords house therefore there will be no rtb records.

They signed the tenancy agreement and supplied a deposit last week. I did not show the flat to anyone else since i received the deposit and now I am left with an empty flat. They were due to move in yesterday but after checking the references I am no longer going to rent to them.

I have talked to the police and RTB and both said I need to seek legal advise as to what to do with the deposit.

Does anyone know what I should do with the deposit as now i have an unrented flat due to these guys?

Return the deposit and be glad you dodged a bullet.

Baby01032012

mugsymugsy wrote: »

Return the deposit and be glad you dodged a bullet.

+1 with the above poster. As a landlord myself be thankful you didn't get stuck in a 6 year tenancy with them. Hand back deposit, you should find someone else in no time.

Mr.H

Wow no actual rental took place and you wanna keep their deposit!!!

This is everything that is wrong with the rental market in this country.

Give the money back. You are "lucky"(although references are a load of crap and only in fashion now that the rental market is in your favour). If you cant find someone decent its because you charge too much or your place is not worth what your charging

Browney7

Assume you wish to keep deposit for time wasting yet it's taken you a week to complete your due diligence to find out reference was false and you let them sign an agreement before checking out references?

Sleeper12

corelon wrote:

Does anyone know what I should do with the deposit as now i have an unrented flat due to these guys?

Refund the deposit or else take them on as tenants. Personally I'd refund and look forward to other tenants

stanley1989

I myself have giving fake references to get a flat generally my mother and she will answer and talk the talk ... Your basically holding them up from looking for another flat by withholding their deposit ... If it was my deposit you wouldn't still have it in your pocket .. Anything for a free buck eh screw the poor why not

TimeToShine

You could also exercise a bit of common sense and judgement and decide for yourself if they are worth renting to. Ringing Uncle Timmy who pretends to be a landlord is not going to make much of a difference.

pilly

corelon wrote:

I have talked to the police and RTB and both said I need to seek legal advise as to what to do with the deposit.

You called the police? Why?

quadrifoglio verde

corelon wrote: »

I had two people supply me with false work references and now suspect the reference for the previous landlord is also false. They claimed they lived in landlords house therefore there will be no rtb records.

They signed the tenancy agreement and supplied a deposit last week. I did not show the flat to anyone else since i received the deposit and now I am left with an empty flat. They were due to move in yesterday but after checking the references I am no longer going to rent to them.

I have talked to the police and RTB and both said I need to seek legal advise as to what to do with the deposit.

Does anyone know what I should do with the deposit as now i have an unrented flat due to these guys?

Return deposit less costs of advertising and rental days lost

bmwguy

pilly wrote: »

You called the police? Why?

Mad isn't it? People haven't a clue what they are at in the rental market. Landlords and tenants.

I was in my mams house a while back and another neighbour called in to say a rat was seen in the garden of a neighbour's house. About 8 houses away. She said it's ok I have rang the guards they said they'll send a car when one is free. I never laughed so much. I would say the guards were laughing too.

pilly

bmwguy wrote: »

Mad isn't it? People haven't a clue what they are at in the rental market. Landlords and tenants.

I was in my mams house a while back and another neighbour called in to say a rat was seen in the garden of a neighbour's house. About 8 houses away. She said it's ok I have rang the guards they said they'll send a car when one is free. I never laughed so much. I would say the guards were laughing too.

She rang the guards over a rat??? Jesus, I know it's funny but have they not enough to do without dealing with that crap.

bmwguy

pilly wrote: »

She rang the guards over a rat??? Jesus, I know it's funny but have they not enough to do without dealing with that crap.

Yeah it's nuts. So is ringing the guards over a false reference. Baffling.

Ms Doubtfire1

bmwguy wrote: »

Mad isn't it? People haven't a clue what they are at in the rental market. Landlords and tenants.

I was in my mams house a while back and another neighbour called in to say a rat was seen in the garden of a neighbour's house. About 8 houses away. She said it's ok I have rang the guards they said they'll send a car when one is free. I never laughed so much. I would say the guards were laughing too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLoXFmJBvlk
:D:D

Mr.H

Mr.H wrote: »

Wow no actual rental took place and you wanna keep their deposit!!!

This is everything that is wrong with the rental market in this country.

Give the money back. You are "lucky"(although references are a load of crap and only in fashion now that the rental market is in your favour). If you cant find someone decent its because you charge too much or your place is not worth what your charging

Its everything that's wrong alright, with slimy tenants. He is fully entitled to deduct for the time wasting of these chancers.

I would return nothing until I had tenants moved in and then deduct for everyday of lost rent caused by the previous "tenants" and for any additional rental costs.

stanley1989 wrote: »

I myself have giving fake references to get a flat generally my mother and she will answer and talk the talk ... Your basically holding them up from looking for another flat by withholding their deposit ... If it was my deposit you wouldn't still have it in your pocket .. Anything for a free buck eh screw the poor why not

The tenants are totally in the wrong and you are defending them, the poor dodgy tenants deserve to be held up looking for another place I hope the next LL and the next LL doesn't fall for their stunt. As for "If it was my deposit you wouldn't still have it in your pocket" :rolleyes: good luck with that.

ELM327

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

Return deposit less costs of advertising and rental days lost

This.

Deposit is to hold the property, I can't fathom why people think when it is their fault the transaction did not complete, that the deposit should be refundable in full. Speaking as a tenant and a landlord, I would not expect to receive a deposit refunded if it was my fault the transaction did not complete.

Browney7

Treasure Thundering Loft wrote: »

Its everything that's wrong alright, with slimy tenants. He is fully entitled to deduct for the time wasting of these chancers.

I would return nothing until I had tenants moved in and then deduct for everyday of lost rent caused by the previous "tenants" and for any additional rental costs.



The tenants are totally in the wrong and you are defending them, the poor dodgy tenants deserve to be held up looking for another place I hope the next LL and the next LL doesn't fall for their stunt. As for "If it was my deposit you wouldn't still have it in your pocket" :rolleyes: good luck with that.

And yet the Op got them to sign a tenancy agreement without actually checking he was fully happy with them first. Should show it to numerous people and have a shortlist and check each reference provided instead of having this "I've been so wronged, the asset I own worth 100s of thousands is idle for an extra week attitude". Sh1t happens in business

Browney7

Browney7 wrote: »

And yet the Op got them to sign a tenancy agreement without actually checking he was fully happy with them first. Should show it to numerous people and have a shortlist and check each reference provided instead of having this "I've been so wronged, the asset I own worth 100s of thousands is idle for an extra week attitude". Sh1t happens in business

Sh*t happens but allowing yourself to be walked all over and bowing down as you hand back the full deposit is an idiotic way to run a business. You damn well are entitled to withhold money to cover your costs, if nothing else they deserve to be taught a lesson for their antics. People really are turning to total push overs nowadays.

ELM327

Browney7 wrote: »

And yet the Op got them to sign a tenancy agreement without actually checking he was fully happy with them first. Should show it to numerous people and have a shortlist and check each reference provided instead of having this "I've been so wronged, the asset I own worth 100s of thousands is idle for an extra week attitude". Sh1t happens in business

Sh1t happens, caused by the buyer's fraudulent references. Buyer should be prosecuted for forgery.

ELM327

Claw Hammer

Why not call the police?
Criminal Justice (Theft And Fraud Offences) 2001

26.—(1) A person who uses an instrument which is, and which he or she knows or believes to be, a false instrument, with the intention of inducing another person to accept it as genuine and, by reason of so accepting it, to do some act, or to make some omission, or to provide some service, to the prejudice of that person or any other person is guilty of an offence.

(2) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on conviction on indictment to a fine or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years or both.

A crime has been committed, the O/P is the intended victim. If the guards were doing their job, those con men would be arrested when they attempted to move to the accommodation.

Sleeper12

ELM327 wrote:

Sh1t happens, caused by the buyer's fraudulent references. Buyer should be prosecuted for forgery.

Most people pad out their CV, should they be prosecuted.

My sister in law is married over 30 years & her husband still thinks that she is a year younger than she actually is. Grounds for annulment?

davindub

corelon wrote: »

I had two people supply me with false work references and now suspect the reference for the previous landlord is also false. They claimed they lived in landlords house therefore there will be no rtb records.

They signed the tenancy agreement and supplied a deposit last week. I did not show the flat to anyone else since i received the deposit and now I am left with an empty flat. They were due to move in yesterday but after checking the references I am no longer going to rent to them.

I have talked to the police and RTB and both said I need to seek legal advise as to what to do with the deposit.

Does anyone know what I should do with the deposit as now i have an unrented flat due to these guys?

Simple enough, return the deposit and next time check references before you agree to rent.

I think you made the right decision but you had the duty to mitigate your damages by checking the references before agreeing to rent.

CeilingFly

You could deduct some fees, but as you are probably talking about €300-€400 and the potential of difficulty with the person who paid the deposit, it is sometimes more realistic to cut the losses and close off everything.

If tenant has signed a lease they could theorectically hold you to that and for you to argue references etc with the RTB and if its a certain type of eprson that will probably go out of their way to cause trouble, so best to inform them that they provided "unverifiable" references (do not say false) and therefore the tenancy agreement is null and void.

Give them back the deposit and then get good tenants in.

Price a little below the market and double check all references, ask for copy of 3 payslips (they can blacken out all figures), check their social media profiles, look at language they use in posts and be prepared to offer a better rent for the best possible client.

Browney7

Treasure Thundering Loft wrote: »

Sh*t happens but allowing yourself to be walked all over and bowing down as you hand back the full deposit is an idiotic way to run a business. You damn well are entitled to withhold money to cover your costs, if nothing else they deserve to be taught a lesson for their antics. People really are turning to total push overs nowadays.

If the OP was in such a rush to get the place filled, why was he leaving it so tight to find replacement tenants for the ones he had (presumably he has existing tenants - sure who'd become a landlord at the moment is the prevailing attitude on this forum?). Why did he take time to check said reference? He hasn't outlined the depth of the false reference - did they say they worked as rocket scientists but are low paid workers or are they not working at all?.

If there was no deposit paid (ie it was pending satisfactory references) and the exact same scenario played out would you send a bill or bring them to court?

CeilingFly

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Most people pad out their CV, should they be prosecuted.

My sister in law is married over 30 years & her husband still thinks that she is a year younger than she actually is. Grounds for annulment?

On the CV issue - if the padding is specific to the undertaking of the position the person can be let go immediately.

On the marriage - I think annulment should be permitted in that case and many others

dunleakelleher

corelon wrote: »

I had two people supply me with false work references and now suspect the reference for the previous landlord is also false. They claimed they lived in landlords house therefore there will be no rtb records.

They signed the tenancy agreement and supplied a deposit last week. I did not show the flat to anyone else since i received the deposit and now I am left with an empty flat. They were due to move in yesterday but after checking the references I am no longer going to rent to them.

I have talked to the police and RTB and both said I need to seek legal advise as to what to do with the deposit.

Does anyone know what I should do with the deposit as now i have an unrented flat due to these guys?

+

You were quite happy to rent to sign a rental agreement with these people (the fact that you didn't do a background check on documents is your own shortcoming). So, in fact, you are the one making the decision to pull out of the signed agreement.
So the unrented flat is your decision. (if you do decide to follow through with your threat)

I would say give back the deposit and hope they don't follow up.
chalk it down to a learning experience. you will check next time before you offer a rental agreement.

ELM327

dunleakelleher wrote: »

+

You were quite happy to rent to sign a rental agreement with these people (the fact that you didn't do a background check on documents is your own shortcoming). So, in fact, you are the one making the decision to pull out of the signed agreement.
So the unrented flat is your decision. (if you do decide to follow through with your threat)

I would say give back the deposit and hope they don't follow up.
chalk it down to a learning experience. you will check next time before you offer a rental agreement.

False documents is a crime, the falsification was done by the supposed tenant. It was an attempt to deceive.
Blame stops with the tenant.

crossmolinalad

pilly wrote: »

She rang the guards over a rat??? Jesus, I know it's funny but have they not enough to do without dealing with that crap.

Maybe it was a rat on two legs without a tale

Fol20

stanley1989 wrote: »

I myself have giving fake references to get a flat generally my mother and she will answer and talk the talk ... Your basically holding them up from looking for another flat by withholding their deposit ... If it was my deposit you wouldn't still have it in your pocket .. Anything for a free buck eh screw the poor why not

How can you put the blame on the landlord. The tenant purposely lied about information while trying to get into the house. Yes the ll should have done due diligence but personally i wouldnt have any problem holding onto their deposit for a few more days as they would have caused me unneeded work for lying to me. I would give them their deposit back though as i wouldnt want the hassle, and on top of it, since both parties signed a contract then legally they maybe entitled to stay.. As others have said, cut your losses give them the deposit back and move on.

Effects

Sleeper12 wrote: »

My sister in law is married over 30 years & her husband still thinks that she is a year younger than she actually is. Grounds for annulment?

How he hasn't figured that out by now is a poor reflection on him!

Mr.H

Ricky Few Grouch wrote:

I would return nothing until I had tenants moved in and then deduct for everyday of lost rent caused by the previous "tenants" and for any additional rental costs.

And you would be rightfully sued.

This landlord signed agreements room deposited and after ages decided that after not getting a reference, to back out.

Contracts signed! End of story.

The only thing the landlord can do is refund fully and hope the tenants don't push the issue.

The tenants to be are the ones out of pocket looking for somewhere to live while this landlord is sitting on their cash with no intention of letting them stay in a place they have signed a lease for.

Some landlords belong behind bars.

I once rented a place in my less aware years and I mean this place was a health hazard. Should have been condemned. Same place is still being rented out. Ridiculous what some landlords are getting away with.

Bushmanpm

Return the deposit MINUS the cost of readvertising, checking the prospective tenants out and the cost of your time dealing with all the enquiries and doing the viewings. If the previous, would be tenants are unhappy
1, let them take you to a small claims court
2, don't give false references!

Mr.H

Mr.H wrote: »

And you would be rightfully sued.

This landlord signed agreements room deposited and after ages decided that after not getting a reference, to back out.

Contracts signed! End of story.

The only thing the landlord can do is refund fully and hope the tenants don't push the issue.

The tenants to be are the ones out of pocket looking for somewhere to live while this landlord is sitting on their cash with no intention of letting them stay in a place they have signed a lease for.

Some landlords belong behind bars.

I once rented a place in my less aware years and I mean this place was a health hazard. Should have been condemned. Same place is still being rented out. Ridiculous what some landlords are getting away with.

Let them try and sue me I would look forward to seeing them pay my costs after I win on top of keeping the portion of the deposit I was entitled to.

Their lease means nothing when they have provided false documentation.

Cyrus

Mr.H wrote: »

If you cant find someone decent its because you charge too much or your place is not worth what your charging

is that not the same thing, and is it only fraudulent shysters that rent expensive apartments?

stanley1989 wrote: »

I myself have giving fake references to get a flat generally my mother and she will answer and talk the talk ... Your basically holding them up from looking for another flat by withholding their deposit ... If it was my deposit you wouldn't still have it in your pocket .. Anything for a free buck eh screw the poor why not

screw the poor? whats all this then?

why do you need your mother to give references for flats if you lived in other ones before??

the_syco

Mr.H wrote: »

This is everything that is wrong with the rental market in this country.

The lying tenants? Yup. I wonder if they even have jobs! Heck, the OP could be down a few thousand when he tries to evict them for non-payment of rent!

Mr.H wrote: »

This landlord signed agreements room deposited and after ages decided that after not getting a reference, to back out.

Contracts signed! End of story.

The would be tenants signed the contracts. You assumed the landlord also signed the contracts, but this is not stated anywhere.

Bushmanpm

stanley1989 wrote:

I myself have giving fake references to get a flat generally my mother and she will answer and talk the talk ... Your basically holding them up from looking for another flat by withholding their deposit ... If it was my deposit you wouldn't still have it in your pocket .. Anything for a free buck eh screw the poor why not

It is fraud. Pure and simple.
How would some of the posters here feel if say, a banker was trying to commit fraud against them to gain access to their assets that could be worth hundreds of thousands of euro?
But, y'know "Grrr, evil landlords",

Treasure Thundering Loft

Treasure Thundering Loft wrote: »

You damn well are entitled to withhold money to cover your costs, if nothing else they deserve to be taught a lesson for their antics.

Really? You absolutely sure about that? Legally?
They signed a tenancy agreement, maybe he should be forced to let them move in, it's a legal document I'm sure.
And they deserve to be taught a lesson? Why?

Treasure Thundering Loft

Treasure Thundering Loft wrote: »

Their lease means nothing when they have provided false documentation.

Does it though?
And a made up letter isn't really documents.
A fake reference is never going to be prosecuted as a 'false document'

Cyrus

bubblypop wrote: »

Does it though?
And a made up letter isn't really documents.
A fake reference is never going to be prosecuted as a 'false document'

a made up letter isnt documents and a fake reference is never going to be prosecuted as a false document?

what nonsense is this

Claw Hammer

bubblypop wrote: »

it's a legal document I'm sure.
?

You shouldn't be so sure. It was procured by fraud and so unenforceable. The o/p is entitled to avoid it.

Do you have any idea why they gave false references OP?
Are they working at all? Do they work somewhere else?
Did you think they seemed OK when you decided to rent to them?

Cyrus

Cyrus wrote: »

a made up letter isnt documents and a fake reference is never going to be prosecuted as a false document?

what nonsense is this

Can you see this being prosecuted by Gardai in court?
Possible tenant makes up a work reference letter?
Please!

pilly

I actually don't get this work reference thing anyway. A lot of jobs wouldn't give someone a reference for renting purely because they don't know each individual who works for them personally so why should they?

the_syco

pilly wrote: »

I actually don't get this work reference thing anyway. A lot of jobs wouldn't give someone a reference for renting purely because they don't know each individual who works for them personally so why should they?

Work reference = proof you can pay the rent each month. Also proof that you're not on RA.

Graham

corelon wrote: »

Does anyone know what I should do with the deposit as now i have an unrented flat due to these guys?

Personally, I'd just give them the deposit back and tell them you won't be proceeding with the tenancy.

Consider it a lucky escape on your part and get on with finding new tenants.

Browney7

the_syco wrote: »

Work reference = proof you can pay the rent each month. Also proof that you're not on RA.

Which is discrimination so the OP should tread carefully....

pilly

the_syco wrote:

Work reference = proof you can pay the rent each month. Also proof that you're not on RA.

So what if your employer won't give you one?

hanna200

pilly wrote: »

I actually don't get this work reference thing anyway. A lot of jobs wouldn't give someone a reference for renting purely because they don't know each individual who works for them personally so why should they?

i believe it could have been an actual letter: so-called proof of employment.
Alternatively it could have been 'old work references letter' or fabricated version of one.

OP how are you getting on?

pilly

pilly wrote: »

So what if your employer won't give you one?

Its pretty standard, any decent employers will have this request regularly and issue it no problem for people renting and going for mortgages. They state how long you worked there, if you are permanent or on contract, if you are likely to stay employed there and your gross salary. HR will issue these without knowing you at all.

pilly

Treasure Thundering Loft wrote: »

Its pretty standard, any decent employers will have this request regularly and issue it no problem for people renting and going for mortgages.

That's a salary cert you're thinking of I think. Totally different thing to a reference.

It's not actually standard when renting because LL's can't insist on a work reference, it's discrimination.