Legal van to tow a trailer.

Dupont

Hi all I'm looking to buy a van that is legal for pulling a trailer that is weighing in at the 3.500t limit. I've fried my brain looking on the web as some say a certain van can then others say no ! I was looking at the t350 ford transit but now I'm not sure if it's allowed too. Any help much appreciated. Btw I have the licence for towing a trailer

colm_mcm

Do you have a category c licence or just b&e

tabby aspreme

Twin wheel iveco van or 350 transit pickup

Dupont

colm_mcm wrote: »

Do you have a category c licence or just b&e

It's the b+e licence

colm_mcm

And just to be clear, the trailer & load will be 3500kg?

Dupont

colm_mcm wrote: »

And just to be clear, the trailer & load will be 3500kg?

Yeah a digger which will be a 2.6t which is close the maximum weight by the time the trailer weight is added in.

Dupont

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Twin wheel iveco van or 350 transit pickup

I'm trying to avoid a pickup because it won't really suit trying to keep tools safe in the back of it.

pm.

Dupont wrote: »

I'm trying to avoid a pickup because it won't really suit trying to keep tools safe in the back of it.

Nissan patrol will do the job

colm_mcm

pm. wrote: »

Nissan patrol will do the job

Isn't their towing capacity 2500kg?

Neilw

Dupont wrote: »

It's the b+e licence

I don't think your licence will cover you to tow 3500kg, it covers the total train weight which can't exceed 3500kg. Thats van, trailer and load combined.

colm_mcm

Max train weight is 7000kg on B&E

Zimmerframe

Neilw wrote: »

I don't think your licence will cover you to tow 3500kg, it covers the total train weight which can't exceed 3500kg. Thats van, trailer and load combined.

No that's incorrect.



In all cases where the MAM of the vehicle and trailer combination is greater than 3500kg but less than 7000kg.

A car with a towing capacity of 2000kg can draw a trailer with a plated MAM of 3500kg provided the combination of the weight of the trailer and any load does not exceed the towing capacity of the car e.g. 2000kg.

Dupont

pm. wrote: »

Nissan patrol will do the job

It's a van I'm after. Need to get lengths of timber into it and a mixer

colm_mcm

Transit 350 would be the job, some of them are plated differently to others in terms of what you can tow.

Dupont

Zimmerframe wrote: »

No that's incorrect.



In all cases where the MAM of the vehicle and trailer combination is greater than 3500kg but less than 7000kg.

A car with a towing capacity of 2000kg can draw a trailer with a plated MAM of 3500kg provided the combination of the weight of the trailer and any load does not exceed the towing capacity of the car e.g. 2000kg.

Yeah that's correct. All I need is a van that's able to tow 3500kg.
Does anyone know if it's the train weight minus the gross weight gives me my towing weight ?

Zimmerframe

Dupont wrote: »

Yeah that's correct. All I need is a van that's able to tow 3500kg.
Does anyone know if it's the train weight minus the gross weight gives me my towing weight ?

Yes you can tow 3500kg minus the weight of the trailer.
i.e if the trailer weighs a tonne, you can put 2.5 tonnes on it, provided the trailer is plated for 3500kgs, and the van/jeep is also rated for 3500kg.

Dupont

colm_mcm wrote: »

Transit 350 would be the job, some of them are plated differently to others in terms of what you can tow.

Yes this is what I was looking for and it would best suit my needs. Is there any particular variant of it that's legal or do I have to ring them all up and get them to read out the plate. A lad had a 03 t330 and I think the weights when worked out allowed it to be 4000kg. I know that's not legal as a trailer hitch is only rated for 3500 and licence

Kristopherus

Mercedes Sprinter, Peugeot Boxer, Renault Master. Have had them all and regularly towed 3500kg with them. Could'nt really fault any of them.

Dupont

Zimmerframe wrote: »

Yes you can tow 3500kg minus the weight of the trailer.
i.e if the trailer weighs a tonne, you can put 2.5 tonnes on it, provided the trailer is plated for 3500kgs, and the van/jeep is also rated for 3500kg.

Yeah the trailer is rated for 3500kg. Do you know how to work out the vans towing capacity because the older ones haven't got it listed as that.

Dupont

Kristopherus wrote: »

Mercedes Sprinter, Peugeot Boxer, Renault Master. Have had them all and regularly towed 3500kg with them. Could'nt really fault any of them.

Are they legal though. I think it has to be a 515 sprinter to have the maximum towing capacity

Zimmerframe

Kristopherus wrote: »

Mercedes Sprinter, Peugeot Boxer, Renault Master. Have had them all and regularly towed 3500kg with them. Could'nt really fault any of them.

You might have, but thats irrelevant if it's not legal.

colm_mcm

All the above have versions that can tow 3500kg (maybe not the boxer)

Zimmerframe

colm_mcm wrote: »

All the above have versions that can tow 3500kg (maybe not the boxer)

Yes but they are not standard spec. and the boxer only goes to 2500 as far as I can see.

Dupont wrote: »

Yeah the trailer is rated for 3500kg. Do you know how to work out the vans towing capacity because the older ones haven't got it listed as that.

Sorry don't know about older vans, but I would say there are few options, bar something having twin wheels or custom spec.
Many of the 4x4s don't even have 3500 kgs towing capacity, though you see farmers towing monster trailers full of cattle.

I tried to explain to a lad at work the other day, that he could legally bring more cattle to the mart, if he had a smaller trailer, he thought I was nuts. :D

pm.

colm_mcm wrote: »

Isn't their towing capacity 2500kg?

http://www.uktow.com/towing%20capacity.asp?make=Nissan&model1=Patrol%20GR%203.0%20Di%20Profi

Yeah 3500kg is the towing capacity, but it's irrelevant now as it won't suit the op needs...

Del2005

Zimmerframe wrote: »

A car with a towing capacity of 2000kg can draw a trailer with a plated MAM of 3500kg provided the combination of the weight of the trailer and any load does not exceed the towing capacity of the car e.g. 2000kg.

I always thought that the limit you could tow was the maximum on the plate. So a vehicle rated for 2t can draw a trailer with a 2t MAN but not an empty trailer with a 3.5t MAN.

traco

You need the max weight spec'd on the plate on the van.

My 162 LWB HR 350 155bhp Transit is 5,500kg train weight I think not 7000kg as I would have liked, shouldn't have trusted teh sales man and I didn't see it in the specs. Ford refer to it as train weight but its the same as MAM as per the Irish rules of the road.

B&E lets you run at 7000kg if you have the right rig set up. Max of 3,500kg each for trailer and towing vehicle but the manufacturers load plate will be the controlling factor.

Van empty is 2,200kg so max I can tow is 3300kg. If I load the back with 500kg then the towing capacity reduces by the equivalent amount to 2,800kg inc trailer weight.

I haven't checked but a dual wheel might get you to the 7000kg number.

mullingar

Just looked at the 2017 Transit specs. (page 21)

https://www.ford.co.uk/content/dam/guxeu/uk/documents/brochures/commercial-vehicles/BRO-Transit.pdf

Only the RWD 350 L4 H3 HD (Extra Long wheel base, high roof) and the 470 can tow 3500kg.


For those who may not know, the easiest way to see what the trailer capacity is on any car/van, is to look at the weight plate, subtract the #1 and #2 figures = towing capacity (inc trailer weight)

Dupont

Looked at a high roof, long wheel base, rear wheel drive transit but the plate was
3500
6000

Even if van was empty this would only leave 2500kg towing capacity?

Dupont

I see a few larger vans that would be rated to pull the weight but they need the small truck licence to drive them. If I got it downrated so I could drive it on a car license would this affect the towing weight

traco

mullingar wrote: »

Just looked at the 2017 Transit specs. (page 21)
Only the RWD 350 L4 H3 HD (Extra Long wheel base, high roof) and the 470 can tow 3500kg.

Just looked at it and you are correct, for us we needed the max internal load capacity and height for moving machines, so by going FWD we gained an extra 350kg load capacity.

Having said that I'm not sure I'd recommend the it for daily towing, I've a feeling the clutch won't last and 2.2 just doesn't have enough torque low down, be fine for random use like that.

I special ordered the 155ps one and when up and moving its grand but heavily loaded pulling away on a hill I would really like more torque. I imagine the clutch will need replacing whereas its predecessor in 10 years was still on its original clutch.

Mind you the transit is a lovely thing to drive long distance in, just like a car which is why I went with it.

Parapara2017

Am I wrong in thinking you need a C1 licence to drive a large van? Regardless of towing capacity, you actually need to be licensed to drive the vehicle thats doing the towing.

Sprinters, for example are a C1 class vehicle. BE might let you tow a certain weight - with a car.

OP is only licensed to drive and tow with cars.

So you'll need to get a C1 license no?
https://www.ndls.ie/licence-categories.html

traco

Dupont wrote: »

Looked at a high roof, long wheel base, rear wheel drive transit but the plate was
3500
6000

Even if van was empty this would only leave 2500kg towing capacity?

No, if the van was empty its around 2200kn (for example), you could then tow 3800kg which is above the license limit of 3500 so you could carry 300kg in the back of the van and tow 3500kg legally. If that makes sense.

traco

Parapara2017 wrote: »

Am I wrong in thinking you need a C1 licence to drive a large van? Regardless of towing capacity, you actually need to be licensed to drive the vehicle thats doing the towing.

Sprinters, for example are a C1 class vehicle. BE might let you tow a certain weight - with a car.

So you'll need to get a C1 license no?
https://www.ndls.ie/licence-categories.html

C1 is 3,500kg to 7,500kg, and needs a tacho also. A whole new world of problems

B license is dictated by weight not size to the best of my knowledge.

Dupont

Isn't the whole thing awfully confusing! I think there going to get strict on the whole thing so as I have the licence and my weight is 2600 +my trailer id be legal .... once I can find a van with the correct load rating. I can't really afford anything newer that 2010

Parapara2017

Dupont wrote: »

Isn't the whole thing awfully confusing! I think there going to get strict on the whole thing so as I have the licence and my weight is 2600 +my trailer id be legal .... once I can find a van with the correct load rating. I can't really afford anything newer that 2010

The MAM is the combined weight of vehicle, passengers, vehicle cargo, trailer weight and trailer cargo weight.

If you're van is at 2600 (If this is without cargo and passengers even worse) you really don't have much room to do anything...

You have 900kg to fit in weight of a trailer and its cargo to stay legal as even with BE MAM can not exceed 3.5T

I think you're trying to tow a digger as well? Don't think theres much hope doing that with a small van on BE

Dupont

Parapara2017 wrote: »

The MAM is the combined weight of vehicle, passengers, vehicle cargo, trailer weight and trailer cargo weight.

If you're van is at 2600 (If this is without cargo and passengers even worse) you really don't have much room to do anything...

You have 900kg to fit in weight of a trailer and its cargo to stay legal as even with BE MAM can not exceed 3.5T

I meant my weight as in a 2.6t digger in a trailer weighing 900kg so overall 3500

Parapara2017

traco wrote: »

No, if the van was empty its around 2200kn (for example), you could then tow 3800kg which is above the license limit of 3500 so you could carry 300kg in the back of the van and tow 3500kg legally. If that makes sense.

The total limit is 3.5T you cannot exceed this weight on B/BE

Parapara2017

Dupont wrote: »

I meant my weight as in a 2.6t digger in a trailer weighing 900kg so overall 3500

That would put it at the limit already. So if you're at 3.5T with trailer and cargo alone the vehicle to tow would exceed your licence limits no matter what the vehicle is.

Dupont

Parapara2017 wrote: »

The total limit is 3.5T you cannot exceed this weight on B/BE

B+E lets you go up to 7000kg providing the trailer and towing vechicle is plated for it

Dupont

Dupont wrote: »

B+E lets you go up to 7000kg providing the trailer and towing vechicle is plated for it

I could get a jeep that has a 3500kg towing capacity and I'd be legal. A jeep won't suit my needs though for storing tools etc

Testacalda

I do know that a twin wheel sprinter can be rated to tow 3500kg. However they had to be ordered specifically with the higher capicity when new, as there was a 'reinforced trailer coupling' option IIRC. Giving a MAM of 7000kg for the highest spec versions.

There also may be a Transit equivilant of this, im not sure.

The issue is that the particular spec your looking for is very rare and most owners havn't a clue what the rated capicities are for their vehicles, so finding one is extremely difficult as an advertisment will probably not have those details in it.

Aslo Check this out, might give you some ideas, even if they aren't in your price range:

http://www.parkers.co.uk/vans/news-and-advice/2016/march/best-vans-for-towing/

Del2005

Parapara2017 wrote: »

The total limit is 3.5T you cannot exceed this weight on B/BE

You can go to 3.5t on B and 7t on BE provided the vehicle is plated for the MAM. I think but not sure that you can do 4.25t on a B but wouldn't risk it without getting written confirmation from the RSA.

Dupont

Testacalda wrote: »

I do know that a twin wheel sprinter can be rated to tow 3500kg. However they had to be ordered specifically with the higher capicity when new, as there was a 'reinforced trailer coupling' option IIRC. Giving a MAM of 7000kg for the highest spec versions.

There also may be a Transit equivilant of this, im not sure.

The issue is that the particular spec your looking for is very rare and most owners havn't a clue what the rated capicities are for their vehicles, so finding one is extremely difficult as an advertisment will probably not have those details in it.

Aslo Check this out, might give you some ideas, even if they aren't in your price range:

http://www.parkers.co.uk/vans/news-and-advice/2016/march/best-vans-for-towing/

Parkers say that all iveco daily models with a gvw of 3500 can pull 3500kg. I wonder if this is correct. I think I have to go for a twin wheel model then I don't think the b licence will be legal for it. Can I downplate a 5t van to drive on my b licence but will this affect the towing weight

TrailerBob

Iveco have the 3.5 ton capacity on most models, but only in the twin wheel format. I ran a 35c15 box van for a while, and towed up to 2.8ton on a couple of occasions. All legal. It's probably the best option for a van.

Eric Cartman

Dupont wrote: »

I could get a jeep that has a 3500kg towing capacity and I'd be legal. A jeep won't suit my needs though for storing tools etc

A commercial one probably would. 2 seat pajero commercial , 3500kg towing and a load of space.

traco

Dupont wrote: »

Parkers say that all iveco daily models with a gvw of 3500 can pull 3500kg. I wonder if this is correct. I think I have to go for a twin wheel model then I don't think the b licence will be legal for it. Can I downplate a 5t van to drive on my b licence but will this affect the towing weight

A quick look on Google throws up the plate below that says 3500 and 7000. I checked the Iveco site and the 3000 model has a GVW of 3500kg but it's load capacity is tiny so the van itself must weight 3000kg+ empty.

As suggested a LWB land cruiser or similar or a non crew cab pick up with full bed cover might be your best option unless you need the cargo space volume as opposed to weight.

Dupont

traco wrote: »

A quick look on Google throws up the plate below that says 3500 and 7000. I checked the Iveco site and the 3000 model has a GVW of 3500kg but it's load capacity is tiny so the van itself must weight 3000kg+ empty.

As suggested a LWB land cruiser or similar or a non crew cab pick up with full bed cover might be your best option unless you need the cargo space volume as opposed to weight.

That would suit me there now. What model is that off. In the back of van I'll need room more than weight carrying. Usual shovels, brushes, pick, consaw, petrol can, wheelbarrow, small belle mixer an odd time along with a genny and kango and drills

E36Ross

traco wrote: »

My 162 LWB HR 350 155bhp Transit is 5,500kg train weight I think not 7000kg as I would have liked, shouldn't have trusted teh sales man and I didn't see it in the specs. Ford refer to it as train weight but its the same as MAM as per the Irish rules of the road.

Van empty is 2,200kg so max I can tow is 3300kg. If I load the back with 500kg then the towing capacity reduces by the equivalent amount to 2,800kg inc trailer weight.

Don't think it works that way?
My understanding was train weight of 5500kg - GVW of 3500kg Means you can only tow a 2000kg....

A 516 Sprinter has a GVW of 5000kg and train weight of 7000kg.... Say the van is 2500kg, Surely you can't legally tow 4500kg with an empty van??? (Ignoring the 3500 BE limit)

TrailerBob

^^^.. that comes down to the rated towing capacity of the van, which trumps the train weight..which by that reckoning is 2000kg.. Train weight minus GVW gives towing capacity.

You can't tow over 3.5ton on a ball hitch/ delta coupling anyway. EU approval limit for ball coupling

CiniO

Del2005 wrote: »

I always thought that the limit you could tow was the maximum on the plate. So a vehicle rated for 2t can draw a trailer with a 2t MAN but not an empty trailer with a 3.5t MAN.

That's the case nearly everywhere in the EU.

However in Ireland, for some reason this seems to be less strict, so if your vehicle is rated to tow 2000kg, that means you can tow a trailer with MAM of 3500kg which is empty and weights on it's own below 2000kg.
That's at least allowed according to info from RSA website.

You couldn't tow like that in most other EU countries.

CiniO

traco wrote: »

You need the max weight spec'd on the plate on the van.

My 162 LWB HR 350 155bhp Transit is 5,500kg train weight I think not 7000kg as I would have liked, shouldn't have trusted teh sales man and I didn't see it in the specs. Ford refer to it as train weight but its the same as MAM as per the Irish rules of the road.

B&E lets you run at 7000kg if you have the right rig set up. Max of 3,500kg each for trailer and towing vehicle but the manufacturers load plate will be the controlling factor.

Van empty is 2,200kg so max I can tow is 3300kg. If I load the back with 500kg then the towing capacity reduces by the equivalent amount to 2,800kg inc trailer weight.

I haven't checked but a dual wheel might get you to the 7000kg number.

That's incorrect.
Your transit is surely rated as 3500kg MAM (or D.G.V.W - same thing here).
So if maximum train weight is 5500kg, that means you can only tow a trailer of 2000kg, no matter if your van in fully leaded or empty.