Stocks and shares

valoren

wordofwarning wrote: »

I agree with most what you saying (I disagree with PE being 20 part, as it various with industry and market).

Warren Buffett believes you should just buy S&P500 ETF. It is highly diversified and low risk. You picked 4 stocks, that have done well and will likely continue to do well. But if you brought Enron, Kodak(sure Kodak was great, as it had a near monopoly on film) etc you could have ended up with no investment or a lot a less.

You can buy a S&P500 index fund on Vanguard with fees of like 0.13% per year

Indexing is the best advice really. Set and forget. But there's something tangible about holding the shares in the companies themselves for me. (not that you actually own them, they are pooled together in a custody account with the broker you being the beneficiary)

If the example couple invested 40k spread across P&G, Exxon, Enron and Worldcom, the investment would be worth $457,000. Still not bad where you lost everything in two of them.

valoren

valoren wrote: »

$26,385

Back of a stamp calculation. Assuming his initial dividend was $187 (3.7% yield) and it was raised annually at 8%

That's the gross amount too, before withholding tax of 15%

Adjusting the earlier dividends for inflation will close the gap further. And Gary's extra earnings will be harder hit by tax which will again close the gap further. Sometimes people just want cash on hand.

Thargor

I've been feeling like a bit of a mug for the last year or two for sitting out this current bull run. I was sure we were overdue for a crash but things just keep climbing. I have 60k sitting in Prize Bonds and more sitting in the post office waiting for a crash that never seems to arrive, must have missed out on 40-50% gains at this stage especially in shares I wanted to own like Google and Amazon. Now I know the minute I go in there will surely be a correction, or maybe things really will just keep climbing forever this time because of quantitative easing and various other schemes.

It really pisses me off tbh, my savings represent a lot of hard work and going without things now they just sit there earning fcuk all.

c_man

Thargor wrote: »

It really pisses me off tbh, my savings represent a lot of hard work and going without things now they just sit there earning fcuk all.

You could start "drip feeding" your 60k into an index tracker, maybe 1k a month? Then if a severe correction occurs, you could lump in a big chunk of the rest.

Depending on your timescale, time in the market beats trying to time it.

Have you gotten anything from the Prize bonds?!

Thargor

Yeah I think drip feeding will be the way to go alright, surely there has to be some kind of correction soon though?

Prize Bonds are sh1te, I'm beating most saving accounts but that's not hard these days.

BailMeOut

I have been buying shares every month since around 2002 and held onto most of my stock during the madness around 2008 and have a pretty nice portfolio now. The value of it today is nearly 7x what I have invested over time and most of my holdings are pretty 'boring' large well know companies.

Best advice I can give is for you to open an online brokerage account and buy at least one stock in a company you know and like as this will immediately get you interested in the market and you will start to learn and understand how it all works (it is not rocket science). Do not buy a stock from a tip from someone in a pub! Buy companies you use and know what they do. Example if you fly a lot on RyanAir and like how they are operating and growing then buy RyanAir.

ILikeBoats

BailMeOut wrote: »

open an online brokerage account and buy at least one stock

Can you recommend one?

BailMeOut

ILikeBoats wrote: »

Can you recommend one?

I use Davy Select https://www.davyselect.ie/

two other options in Ireland are

TD Direct Investing https://www.tddirectinvesting.ie/

Goodbody https://www.goodbody.ie

ILikeBoats

Thanks

valoren

I think our fear culture in Ireland against stock investing dates back to the Eircom flotation.

It was hyped up beyond belief in the late 90's. It was a national event.
I remember a Bank sending a letter home for a loan to buy shares.
I recall our accounting teacher during 5th year, giving an impassioned speech, telling us we should hound out parents into investing into this 'sure thing'.

The price went from initial IPO of (3.07 punts) or €3.90 and shot up to €5. 22% return.
Some cashed out. Most held on. They held on as the price tumbled in a prolonged death spiral ultimately selling at a big loss.
My uncle invested £10,000, sold them soon after and made £2,000 profit. He looked at it as a gamble not an investment in the truest sense.
He was a benefactor. A lot of people lost a significant amount of money.

I think that whole fiasco (the shares were overvalued by Merrill Lynch to begin with), it being a national movement, and the subsequent burn cemented in people's minds that the 'stock market' is a risky place, a casino, a cod, where only insiders win. Stocks and shares were vilified wrongly. That attitude which burned our parents generation filtered down into ours.

So then where could people put their money, after that fiasco, for a decent return? How could they invest if shares were just too risky? I think we're still feeling the ramifications of where people put their money today. Just look at the National debt.

razorblunt

valoren wrote: »

I think our fear culture in Ireland against stock investing dates back to the Eircom flotation.

It was hyped up beyond belief in the late 90's. It was a national event.
I remember a Bank sending a letter home for a loan to buy shares.
I recall our accounting teacher during 5th year, giving an impassioned speech, telling us we should hound out parents into investing into this 'sure thing'.

.

Sounds very like my Accounting teacher too, I was in 3rd year at the time.
Cork school? North side?

valoren

razorblunt wrote: »

Sounds very like my Accounting teacher too, I was in 3rd year at the time.
Cork school? North side?

Yes :pac:

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

suicide_circus

I've no money

Thargor

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Whats your outlook short-mid term for someone looking to build a portfolio for long term hold? Probably mostly global and US focused ETFs but with a few riskier plays aswell, do you think there could be some kind of correction imminent?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Thargor

Thanks, thats what Im thinking aswell and Im inclined to stay stockpiling cash as long as inflation is low, its very annoying watching the likes of Amazon and Google and a lot of others on my watchlist climbing 0.5-1% a day endlessly though.

mad muffin

Stocks and shares?! STOCKS AND SHARES?!?!?!

At 44 I don't even have a pension.

McCrack

Cryptocurrency for investment and trading is where its at now..for me anyway

Thargor

McCrack wrote: »

Cryptocurrency for investment and trading is where its at now..for me anyway

I have 30 ETH myself for a bit of fun but anything could happen there, its not investing, nobody has any idea where any of them will go, its pure gambling. Hilarious reading the threads on Reddit full of people trying to do TA on the various coins, everything is an ascending triangle or a bear trap.

BailMeOut

mad muffin wrote: »

Stocks and shares?! STOCKS AND SHARES?!?!?!

At 44 I don't even have a pension.

get a pension and get one started tomorrow! The tax breaks on pension contributions in Ireland are very generous and so easy to setup. Even if you put buggar all in automatically each month and assuming you make some smart investments choices (lots of good advise already in this thread) and even if you are 44 it is still not too late. It really is a national disgrace that the take up on pensions in Ireland is so low considering how generous the tax breaks are.

If you do not know how to start just ask here (or on the Investment forums) and you will be up and running in no time.

Beyondgone

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

That, and like every other Old-school Stock picker, your guess is as good as mine. The machines are where it's at.

If you're a normal Joe/Joesephine Soap, buy and hold a blue-chip is your ONLY strategy re Stock. There isn't another, despite what people in expensive suits might say. They're lying, you're paying.
Funds?? You're the one funding it, hence the fancy Offices and nice bonuses. The day you sign is the day you start paying for that stuff..

Stocks and Shares are simple - there's 5 sides. Only 5. You are on one. They are:

1. You are the share issuer, you've IPO'd the Company, the mugs will buy that stock and you will make money. Lots. So will your backers, your bankers, your brokers and your accountants. You create the shares others buy.The mugs might make a buck, but it's a long shot for them. The Bookies would offer the same possibility..


2. You are a share broker. You take x% of the mugs trade. It's steady beer. I'd lump in Funds, Hedges, Mutuals, Pension funds etc etc in this class. You make money, the mugs pay. As ever it was.

3. You are already stink rich from 1 or 2. You invest, using inside knowledge, wholesale, in strong stocks, in volume, and either sell them to the mugs at peak, or hold and reap dividends long term. You are not a gambler and it's now only a game.

4. You work for Company X and they bung you shares to keep you working there. You cash these in to buy a new moustache for your decking. People from 3. quietly buy them up. You barely matter.

5. You are one of the punters. You stock pick, day trade, Invest in Funds, pay into a Pension. You fund 1, 2 and 3. You do not pass go, you do not collect €200. You pay into stuff. Stuff does not pay into you.

Beyondgone

The sixth class are the Machine traders..but no one talks about them. You're up against them, as one of the Mugs. Their Broadband is faster. A lot faster. The Die are loaded.

c_man

Beyondgone wrote: »

That, and like every other Old-school Stock picker, your guess is as good as mine. The machines are where it's at.

If you're a normal Joe/Joesephine Soap, buy and hold a blue-chip is your ONLY strategy re Stock. There isn't another, despite what people in expensive suits might say. They're lying, you're paying.

Well an index tracker.... Feck all fees. Mirrors the performance of the FTSE 100, S&P 500 or global equities... Whatever you decide. It's the main go-to as a passive investor.

I don't wear a fancy suit.

Beyondgone

c_man wrote: »

Well an index tracker.... Feck all fees. Mirrors the performance of the FTSE 100, S&P 500 or global equities... Whatever you decide. It's the main go-to as a passive investor.

I don't wear a fancy suit.

Recommend a good Index Tracker. Post results.

c_man

Beyondgone wrote: »

Recommend a good Index Tracker. Post results.

Err, well it all depends on your wish re currency exposure etc.

How about a Vanguard s&p 500 index? VFINX 10 year annualised returns of 7%ish. Typical.

I myself have most of mine in Vanguard LS 100 (not an index tracker as such, yeah so sue me). Slight over exposure to UK but that's fine with me. Fire and forget. link

2016/17 return : 32.09%
2015/16 return : -1.84%
2014/15 return : 14.41%
2013/14 return : 5.74%
2012/13 return : 30.89%

Beyondgone

c_man wrote: »

Err, well it all depends on your wish re currency exposure etc.

How about a Vanguard s&p 500 index? VFINX 10 year annualised returns of 7%ish. Typical.

I myself have most of mine in Vanguard LS 100 (not an index tracker as such, yeah so sue me). Slight over exposure to UK but that's fine with me. Fire and forget. link

2016/17 return : 32.09%
2015/16 return : -1.84%
2014/15 return : 14.41%
2013/14 return : 5.74%
2012/13 return : 30.89%

c_man

Well I'm just being honest and what I know best. Plenty of people go for index trackers (and there's a plethora of them), essentially I think you need something mapping global equities and market share.

Beyondgone

c_man wrote: »

Well I'm just being honest and what I know best. Plenty of people go for index trackers (and there's a plethora of them), essentially I think you need something mapping global equities and market share.

You did kinda feck a Unicorn into the room alright..
http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=22&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiXhriGoZvUAhXJKcAKHQpkAzYQFgiiATAV&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.forbes.com%2Fsites%2Fmichaelfoster%2F2017%2F04%2F14%2Fhere-are-the-best-vanguard-funds-to-buy-theyre-not-the-ones-you-think%2F&usg=AFQjCNGkyNQ0J5CbNWb4AxUXUuYfOF-eSQ&sig2=_rwwzb_B9Tc0Tke5I2YHqA

Tsipras

Could you just invest money instead of having a pension? Would this ever work out better?