Deposit as last months rent

ElKavo

Currently looking at moving out of our rental as the landlord wants us out ( served illegal notice of termination) and there is a case running with the RTB.

We have found a new property and should be able to move in to it soon. My question is should we state that the deposit should be used as the last months rent or should we pay the rent and expect the deposit to be returned on moving out. If so what is a standard timeline to get the deposit back?

To be honest I do not trust the Landlord to return the deposit at all as they have given a number of examples to show that they are untrustworthy. I don't want to have to go through another case with the RTB as this will hold up return of deposit. The property is immaculate and maintained above what would be expected of a tenant.

What would you do?

Baby01032012

Why have you taken a case if you intend to move out. Surely the purpose of taking the case would be to stay put. Id see your case being dismissed once the RTB discover you have moved out. Secondly, if you are moving out then you will need to give the required notice even if the landlord has already given you notice to leave. Otherwise they can take a case to RTB for not giving the required notice. You can of course agree a shorter notice period with the landlord. You should pay last months rent and upon inspection of the property receive back your 1 months rent. However talk to the landlord and come to agreement on this. Im sure he would be happy that you are leaving given that we gave the original notice to terminate.

ElKavo

Baby01032012 wrote: »

Why have you taken a case if you intend to move out. Surely the purpose of taking the case would be to stay put. Id see your case being dismissed once the RTB discover you have moved out. Secondly, if you are moving out then you will need to give the required notice even if the landlord has already given you notice to leave. Otherwise they can take a case to RTB for not giving the required notice. You can of course agree a shorter notice period with the landlord. You should pay last months rent and upon inspection of the property receive back your 1 months rent. However talk to the landlord and come to agreement on this. Im sure he would be happy that you are leaving given that we gave the original notice to terminate.

Case was started before we found a new place.

Notice not an issue as the landlord is in breach of obligation also and have been notified of same.

Communication between ourselves and the LL has completely broken down after they arrived unannounced at our door and started screaming at my wife.

gizmo81

I am searching but I have seen that in no way is the deposit allowed to be used for the last months rent but I cannot get that to come up. Check your lease in regards to this.

I understand that he served you an illegal termination but my advice is do everything by the book. I got this info from RTB on the deposit.

https://www.rtb.ie/docs/default-source/pdf-manuals/security-deposits-for-private-residential-tenancies.pdf?sfvrsn=2

Good luck with the case.

ElKavo wrote: »

Currently looking at moving out of our rental as the landlord wants us out ( served illegal notice of termination) and there is a case running with the RTB.

We have found a new property and should be able to move in to it soon. My question is should we state that the deposit should be used as the last months rent or should we pay the rent and expect the deposit to be returned on moving out. If so what is a standard timeline to get the deposit back?

To be honest I do not trust the Landlord to return the deposit at all as they have given a number of examples to show that they are untrustworthy. I don't want to have to go through another case with the RTB as this will hold up return of deposit. The property is immaculate and maintained above what would be expected of a tenant.

What would you do?

ElKavo

gizmo81 wrote: »

I am searching but I have seen that in no way is the deposit allowed to be used for the last months rent but I cannot get that to come up. Check your lease in regards to this.

I understand that he served you an illegal termination but my advice is do everything by the book. I got this info from RTB on the deposit.

https://www.rtb.ie/docs/default-source/pdf-manuals/security-deposits-for-private-residential-tenancies.pdf?sfvrsn=2

Good luck with the case.

Thanks, I want to follow the letter of the law on it.

gizmo81

Then absolutely pay the last months rent as normal. I understand it's a difficult with new deposits etc but in the long run it's better for you.

If the notice was invalid, the incident at the door, and the breaches you mentioned will stand in your favour.

ElKavo wrote: »

Thanks, I want to follow the letter of the law on it.

ElKavo

gizmo81 wrote: »

Then absolutely pay the last months rent as normal. I understand it's a difficult with new deposits etc but in the long run it's better for you.

If the notice was invalid, the incident at the door, and the breaches you mentioned will stand in your favour.

Great, I've had to get a loan for the new place deposit etc so its not a major issue but I just don't trust that they will pay it back and I'll have to go through the whole process again. But if needs must.

gizmo81

Are you waiting on an adjudication date for the RTB?

Also, when moving out buy a newspaper, take an up close with the date then have the paper in every photo, I put it on the floor in every room of the last property I moved out of. Take a video. Upload all as evidence to the RTB case file.

ElKavo wrote: »

Great, I've had to get a loan for the new place deposit etc so its not a major issue but I just don't trust that they will pay it back and I'll have to go through the whole process again. But if needs must.

Baby01032012

ElKavo wrote: »

Case was started before we found a new place.

Notice not an issue as the landlord is in breach of obligation also and have been notified of same.

Communication between ourselves and the LL has completely broken down after they arrived unannounced at our door and started screaming at my wife.

2 wrongs dont make a right...doesnt matter if he served incorrect notice....you are going to the RTB so you will need to show that you played by the book and gave correct notice.
I understand communication is difficult but you might have to bite the bullet and come to agreement that suits you (re earlier move out and deposit)...otherwise youre in for a long haul if you dont get your deposit back....and my point above re: notice will go against you if you have to go to RTB looking for it

ElKavo

gizmo81 wrote: »

Are you waiting on an adjudication date for the RTB?

Also, when moving out buy a newspaper, take an up close with the date then have the paper in every photo, I put it on the floor in every room of the last property I moved out of. Take a video. Upload all as evidence to the RTB case file.

Yes, waiting on adjudication, The LL has tried everything to get us out as quick as possible and has gone way beyond what is allowed. I have documented everything and posted it to the RTB who have tied it to case.

gizmo81

What notice are you giving?

If your landlord is in breach of their obligations, you must notify them of the problem in writing and give a reasonable opportunity to correct it; if it continues you can serve a minimum of 28 days' notice in writing.


https://www.threshold.ie/advice/ending-a-tenancy/ending-your-tenancy/

ElKavo wrote: »

Yes, waiting on adjudication, The LL has tried everything to get us out as quick as possible and has gone way beyond what is allowed. I have documented everything and posted it to the RTB who have tied it to case.

gizmo81

Also, two years ago I had a case for a breech in landlord obligations and while I was waiting for the tribunal date I set up a telephone mediation to end the tenancy within a couple of weeks.

Telephone mediation is free.

I stated I didn't feel safe in the home and wanted to move out immediately, the landlord was in agreement.

This was done by a mediator on the phone by RTB for free.

I'd advise this for ending the tenancy promptly especially if he has history of attending your home unnanoucned and shouting at your wife.

ElKavo

gizmo81 wrote: »

What notice are you giving?

If your landlord is in breach of their obligations, you must notify them of the problem in writing and give a reasonable opportunity to correct it; if it continues you can serve a minimum of 28 days' notice in writing.


https://www.threshold.ie/advice/ending-a-tenancy/ending-your-tenancy/

We have notified them of many problems with the property over the last two years some in writing and some verbally

gizmo81

What I am saying is if you do a telephone mediation on top of your other RTB case specifically for ending your tenancy. The RTB mediator may be able to negotiate a much reduced notice period. They did in my case.

ElKavo wrote: »

We have notified them of many problems with the property over the last two years some in writing and some verbally

ElKavo

gizmo81 wrote: »

What I am saying is if you do a telephone mediation on top of your other RTB case specifically for ending your tenancy. The RTB mediator may be able to negotiate a much reduced notice period. They did in my case.

Ah ha, I really dont want to let them away with how we have been treated. I wouldn't treat anybody how they have to us. The RTB are a pain in the face to get in contact with. Also I dont have a contact number for the LL either. I only have a "care of" address for them. But I will see if I can get it somewhere.

We would issue 28 days notice as per breach of obligation notice.

Baby01032012

If termination is due to the Landlord being in breach of obligations:-
[font=Calibri, sans-serif]1.      [/font][font=Calibri, sans-serif]The Tenant is required to give notice of the breach to the Landlord in writing and afford them a reasonable period of time within which to remedy the breach.[/font]

[font=Calibri, sans-serif]2.      [/font][font=Calibri, sans-serif]If the breach is not remedied within that reasonable period of time, a Notice of Termination may be served by the Tenant giving 28 days notice, no matter what duration the tenancy is.[/font]
[font=Calibri, sans-serif]Youll have to give the 14 days notice ro rectify the breaches, whatever they may be before you can give 28 days notice of termination.[/font]
[font=Calibri, sans-serif]Y[/font]

ElKavo

Baby01032012 wrote: »

If termination is due to the Landlord being in breach of obligations:-
[font=Calibri, sans-serif]1.      [/font][font=Calibri, sans-serif]The Tenant is required to give notice of the breach to the Landlord in writing and afford them a reasonable period of time within which to remedy the breach.[/font]

[font=Calibri, sans-serif]2.      [/font][font=Calibri, sans-serif]If the breach is not remedied within that reasonable period of time, a Notice of Termination may be served by the Tenant giving 28 days notice, no matter what duration the tenancy is.[/font]
[font=Calibri, sans-serif]Youll have to give the 14 days notice ro rectify the breaches, whatever they may be before you can give 28 days notice of termination.[/font]
[font=Calibri, sans-serif]Y[/font]

Done and done.

Thanks

Baby01032012

Best of luck with your new place. I hope it works out and knock this down to experience. Im not sure what you expect the RTB to do about a bad or slow landlord. 
What outcome do you want? Everything is in the past now so RTB is unlikely to do aything especially as you will have already moved out by the time the hearing takes place.

gizmo81

It doesn't matter if you move out or not.

My landlord didn't notify the management company of anti-social behaviour I notified him of, I moved out while the case was ongoing. 2 months after moving out the RTB sided with me at tribunal and made a substantial award in my favour for a breach in landlord obligations.

If you notify the landlord of anti-social behaviour he is obligated to write to the management company and have evidence of the correspondence.

Baby01032012 wrote: »

Best of luck with your new place. I hope it works out and knock this down to experience. Im not sure what you expect the RTB to do about a bad or slow landlord. 
What outcome do you want? Everything is in the past now so RTB is unlikely to do aything especially as you will have already moved out by the time the hearing takes place.

howayahorse

Baby01032012 wrote: »

ElKavo wrote: »

Case was started before we found a new place.

Notice not an issue as the landlord is in breach of obligation also and have been notified of same.

Communication between ourselves and the LL has completely broken down after they arrived unannounced at our door and started screaming at my wife.

2 wrongs dont make a right...doesnt matter if he served incorrect notice....you are going to the RTB so you will need to show that you played by the book and gave correct notice.
I understand communication is difficult but you might have to bite the bullet and come to agreement that suits you (re earlier move out and deposit)...otherwise youre in for a long haul if you dont get your deposit back....and my point above re: notice will go against you if you have to go to RTB looking for it

I have recently queried the RTB on this a number of times (due to my landlord also giving an invalid notice of termniation!) and if the notice is served by the landlord then the tenant can leave when they find a place and is not required to pay rent after the date they leave regardless of the date of termination issued by the landlord. However it is difficult to plan because we pay rent in advance. 
I plan to go by the book and will only pay pro rata up to the date I plan to leave on. If the landlord keeps the deposit, I'll raise a dispute with the RTB - there's plenty of other infringements I can tell the RTB about. 
Sorry that you are in this predicament OP, Like you, I was going to raise a dispute about their invalid notice but then decided I don't want them as my landlord anymore. They've been really terrible. I want to fight them to try to potentially protect other tenants and keep the rent security I should have been entitled to but I just don't want to give them my money anymore so decided I will just go.

runawaybishop

howayahorse wrote: »

I have recently queried the RTB on this a number of times (due to my landlord also giving an invalid notice of termniation!) and if the notice is served by the landlord then the tenant can leave when they find a place and is not required to pay rent after the date they leave regardless of the date of termination issued by the landlord.

Did they point you towards any legislation stating that, because it sounds like nonsense.

Baby01032012

Id have to agree with runawaybishop...sounds more like something coming from Threshold than RTB. You need to give the required notice if you decide to leave....however its best to agree an earlier leave date with the landlord.

As a landlord I reckon I've had 6/7 sets of tenants over 11 years.
All but the first and the last used the deposit as their last months rent, infuriating but there was little I could do.

The last tenants were there for 3 years and they paid their last months rent as normal. I transferred the deposit to the letting agent's account the following day and requested him to let the tenants know so that they knew 3+ weeks in advance of moving out that they would be getting their deposit back the day they moved out if all was well.

howayahorse

Baby01032012 wrote: »

Id have to agree with runawaybishop...sounds more like something coming from Threshold than RTB. You need to give the required notice if you decide to leave....however its best to agree an earlier leave date with the landlord.

I heard it from Threshold first so I queried it with the RTB twice to confirm. It is because a notice of termination from the landlord states that the tenant must leave "on or before XXX date" so the landlord is actually inviting the tenant to leave earlier.
Normally I wouldn't feel confident in leaving early but I have an awful lot to support a dispute so I am happy to take the risk and fight the landlord if they are being difficult.

runawaybishop

howayahorse wrote: »

I heard it from Threshold first so I queried it with the RTB twice to confirm. It is because a notice of termination from the landlord states that the tenant must leave "on or before XXX date" so the landlord is actually inviting the tenant to leave earlier.
Normally I wouldn't feel confident in leaving early but I have an awful lot to support a dispute so I am happy to take the risk and fight the landlord if they are being difficult.

I don't see how that supersedes a tenants obligation to pay rent until the termination date.

howayahorse

runawaybishop wrote: »

howayahorse wrote: »

I heard it from Threshold first so I queried it with the RTB twice to confirm. It is because a notice of termination from the landlord states that the tenant must leave "on or before XXX date" so the landlord is actually inviting the tenant to leave earlier.
Normally I wouldn't feel confident in leaving early but I have an awful lot to support a dispute so I am happy to take the risk and fight the landlord if they are being difficult.

I don't see how that supersedes a tenants obligation to pay rent until the termination date.

I'll let you know how it goes if it comes to a dispute - I'm just going by what 2 people from the RTB have told me. I'd obviously prefer to come to an agreement with the landlord but they are the bad kind unfortunately.

CeilingFly

One option is to try and talk to the Landlord even if relationship has broken down.

Unless you are looking for compensation from RTB, the suggestion would be that rather than argue between yourselves for 2-3 months, come to a written arrangement that as you have now found a new place, you will withdraw your complaint in exchange for landlord accepting deposit as final month's rent and accepting a fixed date for moving.

Send something along those lines by text.

jamesthepeach

When looking for accommodation now, Most landlords now ask several of your previous landlords have you used the deposit as the last month's rent without their permission. If they say yes they will cross you off the list of applicants.

ElKavo

Thanks all for the feeback. Wont be dropping the case after all they have put us through. I'll leave the Rtb to decide what is right and wrong. I have offered either to use the deposit or return on moving out and inspection. Either way in their court now.

MODS please feel free to close.

slystallone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2057746985/deposit-as-last-months-rent

Did you end up using the deposit as last month's rent?