BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

BlueSkyDreams

LUAS services suspended again today in the city because of the Gaza protest.

I assume the same for bus routes and yet we are supposed to choose public transport?

We are making PT a last resort.

Frank Grimes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121780863#Comment_121780863

That isn't the case, just because you feel inconvenienced by people exercising their democratic right to protest doesn't mean public transport is being made a last resort.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121780863#Comment_121780863

You could still get to St Stephen’s Green from all stops south, and to Dominick from Broombridge.

While the cross-city suspension is frustrating, that still allows people get to/from the city centre by LUAS.

The impact on the bus service was worse with long gaps once again.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121780927#Comment_121780927

Nothing to do with peoples right to protest, I fully advocate that.

1 out of 10 for the predicatable strawman argument though.

PT is a last resort when it doesnt function.

The council & Guards need to designate protest routes that dont stop cross city PT every Saturday. No point burying the head in the sand and pretending it doesnt have an impact on peoples transport choices.

Frank Grimes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121781004#Comment_121781004

It's not a strawman, and from what you're saying you probably don't really understand what that means. You constantly complain about people protesting because it inconveniences you and I'm just pointing out that people have the right to do so, and protests by their very nature are often held in places that cause disruption otherwise what's the point.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121780943#Comment_121780943

Its a fair old distance from Dominick stop to Grafton Street. A good 2km or half an hour walk, without shopping bags.

For older commuters that would be very off putting and even as a younger person, sure why would you not just drive to Drury Street/Stephens Green.

Shame the buses are also feeling the impact and we are surely just pushing more folks out of the city centre to shop in out of town outlets, which most people drive to, of course.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121781021#Comment_121781021

It is a strawman, because the right to protest is not up for question here.

I agree with you on peoples right to protest.

I am saying there should be designated areas for protests that dont shut down public transport services on the busiest retail day of the week, every week.

The repercussion of which encourages people to drive into town or not go there at all.

I have little doubt footfall in the shopping areas is down and that hits business in the city centre, as well as encouraging people to drive to out of town centres, which means less people use PT over the weekend.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121781027#Comment_121781027

But again, people could access the city centre using trams - yes some people will be more affected than others, but the vast majority people are able to walk 2km without difficulty. Let’s not blow this out of proportion.

Whether you like it or not, people have a democratic right to protest, and they are going to do it where they will get noticed, not in some back street.

Now as I have said before, I think that the bus service needs to start implementing remote termini around the city centre when these protests are scheduled, rather than trying to keep the normal cross-city service going, so that a level of service can be maintained either side of the city centre.

Frank Grimes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121781056#Comment_121781056

The right to protest is up for question though because you're saying it should only happen in places that don't inconvenience you, and hypothetical others, but the main focus of your posts seem to be about you. Keep driving into the city centre on Saturdays and then post here to complain about people protesting, I don't really care and it's nothing to do with Bus Connects so I'll stop this line of posting.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121781065#Comment_121781065

2km is a fair distance. Especially on a rainy day like today. Then you have the 2km back again, carrying your bags.

Its not a small feat for a lot of the population.

I see your point about the bus terminus on the edge of the city centre, but thats creating the same issue. If my bus from Clondalkin stops in Smithfield, its not much use if i want to goto Grafton St.

You would just drive or not go at all.

The tail is wagging the dog when we are redirecting the terminus for all PT EVERY single saturday and with no end in sight.

When its not Gaza it will be something else.

A protest zone is surely the obvious solution.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121781082#Comment_121781082

It has everything to do with BusConnects, if we want to increase ridership on the buses. The LUAS is relevant here because it is a very popular form of public transport also.

Enabling the right to protest is not the same as saying you can protest anywhere, whenever you like.

trellheim

But, for example, if you confined protestors to Merrion Square LITERALLY in front of Dail Eireann, then whats the issue ? Merrion's easy enough to route public transport around

there has to be a middle ground here. I saw a lot of very angry people today in the snarled up traffic , if I'd know there was a protest I'd have been well away from town

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121781104#Comment_121781104

Ah come off it, this is getting a bit ridiculous now. How did people get from the LUAS at St. Stephen’s Green to the areas around O’Connell Street pre-LUAS cross-city?

I’ll tell you how, they walked! Are people suddenly incapable of doing that now? Stop making the LUAS disruption out to be more than it is, which is frustrating, but manageable.

Regarding the buses, the problem is that people trying to make suburban bus journeys that go nowhere near the city centre are being impacted with the long gaps in services. Terminating short of the city centre during the protest period, and rostering that, delivers some semblance of a regular service either side of the city centre.

I really do think you’re on a hiding to nothing frankly with your idea of a “protest zone” that doesn’t involve our capital’s principal street or outside the Parliament, it’s just not going to happen.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121781331#Comment_121781331

I think unfortunately you’d lose the impact that a protest is trying to have in those circumstances.

It’s a balancing act for the Garda who have to manage these protests.

To be fair, I think that whatever anger the people in cars that you saw today were displaying rather pales into insignificance compared to the suffering that people are experiencing right now in the Middle East, which is what over 10k people were marching through Dublin about today.

A bit of perspective might not be a bad thing.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121781470#Comment_121781470

Some walked and others drove straight to their destination. The idea of cross city luas was to stop people driving and/or having to walk across the city centre if it was not feasible for them to do so. To make the city centre assessible and inclusive.

And it worked. It reduced cars and it made the city more accessible for all.

It was progressive public transport & we are currently losing that each saturday.

If we take your point to its logical conclusion we may as well just shut cross city altogether and be done with it.

I agree that the govt probably wont designate a protest area, but that doesnt mean that they should not do so.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121781501#Comment_121781501

Thats not a reasonable comparison, because in reality, the only material impact of the protest is felt in Dublin.

Decline in footfall for businesses and uptick in car journeys to avoid public transport delays.

The protest on a small rock on the edge of europe is not going to touch Netanyahu or his decision making.

Everyone has the right to protest and that should forever be the case, but some form of compromise and context should really be applied.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121780863#Comment_121780863

I would imagine most people are avoiding the city centre entirely on days of protests

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121781021#Comment_121781021

The right to protest is interfering with the right to access public transport.

The obvious compromise is to ensure that protest routes don't clash with public transport routes.

Daith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121782753#Comment_121782753

Can you point to the right to access public transport anywhere? I can point to the right to peaceful assembly in the Constitution.

"The right to access public transport", Jesus there'd be plenty of people outside Dublin who would have loved if that was true

devnull

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121782753#Comment_121782753

What route could you design in Dublin that doesn't have some public transport running upon it, do you fancy giving it a go?

jd

Back to route changes. Cllr Keith Connolly has an update on FB

"Changes to the 40,9,83 and 140 delayed until Q2 2025

I received the below update from the NTA last week.

The NTA currently expects to introduce new routes E1, E2, N2 and 19 in Q2 of this year.

Routes 4, 11, 13, 145 and 155 would be replaced by the new services.

During Q2 of 2025 the NTA would introduce new routes F1, F2, F3, L89 23 and 24.

Routes 9, 40, 40b, 83, 83a and 140 would be replaced.

All dates are subject to detailed review of operational readiness prior to introduction and the overall level of funding available."

https://t.ly/MdRqT

dublinman1990

Why is the F-Spine delayed for more than a year according to this update from this councillor?

The way the councillor interprets this update from the NTA to his constituents has to come into question as well. In his words; it doesn't make sense to me to scrap the whole of the 4 route to make way for the E-Spine. Only the northside part of the 4 was meant to be cancelled or switched over to a new terminus somewhere along the B-Spine if the E-Spine was rolled out in Q2 of this year.

The 4 was meant to be replaced in it's entirety with the B4 from next year along with other routes like the A-Spine, the 19 and 24 to serve people who will use buses between Harristown to O'Connell St. There would also would be huge anger for people who live along the Rock Road QBC in Blackrock if they heard that the 4 route was going to be completely cancelled because of the E-Spine being rolled along the N11. The 4 still provides a lot of vital capacity for people who want to use bus services along the Rock Road corridor.

The timetable for the 4 has seen an amazing increase in capacity since it was improved in the later half of 2019.

The passengers who would have used the 4 route would either now have to rely on the 7 & 7A or the Dart to get into DCC from that point onwards. If there was a change in the rollout of the phases again to allow the B-Spine to be launched along E-Spine & the O route; that would have made a lot more sense to me. But if we are not going getting the B-Spine this year due to a lack of drivers; it's going to be a disaster for bus users in Blackrock if this plan goes ahead if the NTA has approved it to go ahead very soon.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121783602#Comment_121783602

The LUAS should be protected, at the very least.

Since it obviously cant be diverted.

Bus services could incir a minimal impact, if a proper protest route/area was designated.

jd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786115#Comment_121786115

He's a rep for the Ballymun Finglas LEA, most of the locals are more concerned with the details of the bus routes in their area, rather than what is happening on the south side

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786115#Comment_121786115

I'd say it's a misunderstanding. Previous plans of the phases allowed for one section (Northside of Southside) of those routes to be cancelled, not the whole route in it's entirety. I doubt that has changed.

The cancellation of the Northside 11 and 13 will have a major impact on service from Dorset Street to Griffith Avenue, with the cancellation of 7 buses per direction oer hour and replacement with an hourly 19 service. There is already enough pressure on the 41 and 16 without removing 7 buses at peak times.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121783199#Comment_121783199

The right to peaceful assembly is circumscribed by law.

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1961/act/24/section/98/enacted/en/html

You can't block traffic.

LIGHTNING

Folks lets keep this on topic please. If you want to talk about protests post it somewhere else

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786983#Comment_121786983

There will probably be a temporary replacement along the Drumcondra Road for the 11 & 13 until the A-Spine launches, perhaps to/from DCU. They couldn’t remove that number of buses from the corridor without a replacement.

You are also correct that the southern halves of the 4, 11 and 13 will all remain in situ until the relevant next phase happens.

BusGuy

As a bus enthusiast and we all are, I think we should focus here on the A spine as the 1, 14, 15, 15a, 15b, 15d, 16, 33, 33a, 33b, 33d, 33x, 41, 41b, 41c, 41d, 41x, 65, 65b, 142; Northern half of 44 are going to be canceled, with the 1, 16, 15, 33, etc. are all the important routes here.

The A spine will be one of the biggest blows to the communities in the Dublin City region.

Any date on this launch?

john boye

Do you think all these routes are being cancelled without replacement?