BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

TheChrisD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120739071#Comment_120739071

It's hardly much of an extension though? Instead of heading onto the N4 and around Weston estate, it would instead just take a small detour to serve somewhere which has been constantly learning for direct city connection aside from the express peak services? That said, all of my suggestions are assuming that the C4 can be curtailed back to being just Celbridge only, rather than continuing on into Maynooth as it is right now.

As for why, well I only ever seem to hear complaints about the services from those on the C3 line, so I assume that's the one that needs the most work and extra service. Maybe it is actually necessary that both need to receive a service increase.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120740153#Comment_120740153

Need to bear in mind that the W6 was designed assuming the C4 terminates in Celbridge.

dublinman1990

There is a lot of merit in the having the W61 terminate at Hazelhatch.

It's there to provide a feeder service to rail passengers if they are disembarking from trains that go from either Portlaoise to Grand Canal Dock or between Kildare to Heuston in the interim period.

DART SW will than eventually provide the full version of the W6 with a lot more demand for passenger capacity at Hazelhatch in the medium to long term.

The only thing that I would ask here how would rerouting the W61 to Adamstown make any sense at this point. Both Hazelhatch and Adamstown are already served with with railway stations on the KRP.

What sort of connections are there to provide the W61 to go from Maynooth to Adamstown via Hazelhatch?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120742039#Comment_120742039

I think that once you add a second bus connection, on top of a rail journey you're likely to start losing people.

I would suggest that the plan is about adding connectivity rather than making multiple connections.

Also, why assume that it's planned for double decks? It could be single deck operated?

GAI could redeploy their streetlites from other routes on to the W6.

Operating the W61 will have zero effect on the ability to operate additional C Spine departures, as the former is operated by GoAhead Ireland and the latter by Dublin Bus. The ongoing staffing problems at the latter mean that adding departures is pretty much impossible right now.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120740799#Comment_120740799

I am merely making the point that you can't simply re-route a service to serve another area, without looking at the impact on bus and staff resources.

There would be unbudgeted costs - an extra bus on the route also means probably an additional 3 drivers during the course of the day, plus an extra driver as cover for days off.

Scheduling buses is far more complicated than most people think.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120741583#Comment_120741583

I don’t think that’s correct - they still apply the AVLC schedule to the GPS location of the bus. Plenty of buses that I’ve been going for or have been on have been far later than 6 mins late yet still appear as live.

Reversal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120742688#Comment_120742688

Those extra demands are compared to the original W6 but what about the additional resource requirements now the route is split, you now have 4 termini instead of 2, so theoretically twice the out of service time.

For example, looking at the timetable for the W62, buses will spend longer sitting in Newcastle waiting for the next departure time, than it would take them to go to Adamstown station, and then via the new link road, rejoin the original W6 route in Cellbridge.

And you then you have the same thing going on at Hazelhatch. So it could even save resources at this point to run a full W6 via the Cellbridge link road than have separate W61 and W62.

xper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120671298#Comment_120671298

Off the top of my head ... if the September switch sees the removal of the 17 and 75 which pass through Dundrum and introduces the 74 and L25 as their respective partial replacements and these are terminating in Dundrum, then it makes sense to get the 14 terminus out of there too and introduce the full 80 route. It may also just be necessary to juggle the bus/driver numbers.

Hippodrome Song Owl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120742659#Comment_120742659

Is there need for much more connectivity at Hazelhatch beyond the existing L58 and L59 (and the shuttle service to the village)? If the buses lined up a little better with the train timetable I really don't see how there is need for further services. The rail users looking for connectivity to Maynooth or Tallaght will be equally served by a bus connection at Adamstown.

Running the W6 from Grange Castle to Adamstown to Celbridge via new link road and carrying on to Maynooth without going to Hazelhatch would provide an incredible increase in connectivity compared to the current plan. Yes, it no doubt would require a rethink of scheduling, but the existing proposal which is dependent on major roadworks to fix the bridge and the implementation of a train service that is far in the future is very poor use of resources by comparison I think.

KD345

Have the W4, W61 and W62 official timetables been published yet?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120746653#Comment_120746653

They were on the GAI website for about 24 hours, but were then removed, I suspect, after the impossibility of the journey times between Blanchardstown and Liffey Valley was realised.

One would hope that some rapid revision is ongoing.

The original timetables are still on bustimes.org

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120744166#Comment_120744166

Last I heard was that the Irish Rail contracted shuttle service between Hazelhatch and Celbridge is supposed to cease operating at some point once the W61 starts, as I understand it. It would make no sense to retain it.

At the end of the day, this plan went through two massive rounds of consultation. Other than minor tweaks, I've seen nothing to suggest that the NTA are prepared to make significant changes such as what you are suggesting to the final network design published in September 2020.

I think, frankly, that it is futile trying to come up with alternative routings to those set out in the plan as they've designed it, until after they've implemented all of the phases. Then maybe they might start listening to people!

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120744165#Comment_120744165

The 74 and L25 will terminate in the new terminus bay on the Dundrum bypass.

There still has to be a high frequency bus linking Ballinteer and Dundrum, be it either the 14/80 or indeed a terminus swap with the 16, until the A Spine launches, and that service will continue to terminate at the current bus terminus, pending the Dundrum LAP redesign.

KD345

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120746760#Comment_120746760

Thanks. I noticed the NTA press launch today on Twitter and searched for the timetables but could not find them.

It’s baffling that we’re 3 days away from major new bus routes launching and passengers don’t have a timetable. These routes have been in the planning for so long.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120746851#Comment_120746851

Sure why would people need luxuries, such as a timetable?

I mean the TFI website and app seem to have a very odd understanding of what a timetable should look like!

dfx-

Given that there is going to be an influx of traffic and workers in the area at Backweston with the new forensic science building and data centre, the c4, l58 and trains leave a lot to be desired.

I will battle on with them knowing the routes and connections and patience but you can't seriously recommend a 30 minute frequency to colleagues or the L58 not connecting to trains.

300 odd people will just have to drive...

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120747010#Comment_120747010

That's a more realistic expectation, rather than wholesale re-routings right now, but the driver shortage at Dublin Bus remains a real problem when looking for extra services.

LXFlyer

GoAhead are introducing revised running times for the summer on routes 45a/45b, 63/63a, 102, 104, 184, 185 and 220/220a from Sunday 25th June, which means that buses may leave intermediate stops earlier than currently.

Also, route 33b sees the first departure from the Burrow in Portrane towards Swords advanced from 06:15 to 06:05 in order to connect into the early train at Donabate.

Daith

On a similar note, I'd love if Dublin Bus slightly alter the time table for the 40e from 16:00.

There are times when the Docklands train will arrive in Broombridge at say 16:30 with the 40e scheduled to leave at 16:30.

Adding just two minutes would help a lot with connections

rx8

Word coming out of Ringsend yesterday suggests that they are going to add 2 extra blocks to the C3/C4 routes. This would be 10 extra drivers, so probably 8 extra duties.

All unofficial at the moment, but in the pipeline anyway.

Reversal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120746806#Comment_120746806

Except they did make a major route change to the W6, they split it in two. Unfortunately the worst possible alternative was selected which threw out most of the aims of the actual route.

I can imagine it now, year 2030, DART running to Hazelhatch but you you still can't get to it from east if the Canal. They're still looking at options for Hazelhatch bridge, but absolutely no way that bus is going near Adamstown because we don't do temporary connections.

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120747573#Comment_120747573

Exactly! The main use and purpose of this route is to link residents with Maynooth University. So mainly Tallaght or anyone who'd connect via Tallaght, and then Citywest, Saggart.

Celbridge already has L59 to the train so it isn't a main purpose for the W6.

p_haugh

The W4 timings between Liffey Valley and Blanch have been amended now (on TFI Live at least) to give it around 10 minutes to get between the n4 and the n3, with a total of around 15 minutes to reach the Blanch terminus. Seems to be the case for every departure.

Southbound however, it's giving a total of around 22 minutes between the first stop and the Liffey Valley stop

Bus times has yet to update to reflect this, mind you.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120747856#Comment_120747856

Finally - some realistic timings!

Bustimes.org only updates periodically so it might take till later on today or tomorrow.

TranslatorPS

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120747856#Comment_120747856

Huh, there's hope yet!

I guess somebody in GAI did cop on that there's no point in paying so many delay penalties.

tnegun

The stops have just been installed on the Moyglare Road, I was on the school run so had to fly past but tried to grab a couple of pics of the timetable.

StreetLight

Massive spelling mistake made more than once on the timetable. The NTA don't do proofreaders either.

DaBluBoi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120749549#Comment_120749549

Where is this typo? Looked at those two images for 5 mins straight and found nothing wrong with em

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120747491#Comment_120747491

They need to get their finger out and start making a bigger effort to recruit drivers. If Dublin Bus are not doing a good enough job at recruiting drivers then the NTA need to step in and put services out to tender.

If the NTA really want to provide services then they may have to seek cheaper alternatives to Dublin Bus and Go-Ahead. For example in London an independent operator Sullivan Buses provides some of the services in outer London. It wins tenders for less important local routes as it can provide them less than the larger.

I sometimes wonder could some of the smaller operators like Dualway for example have a part to play in Bus Connects and fill in the gaps in services where Dublin Bus and Go-Ahead are finding it difficult to provide drivers.

dfx-

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120749659#Comment_120749659

Destination in Irish is not right.

A destination as vague as "Community College" isn't helpful.

DaBluBoi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120749753#Comment_120749753

I see now. That is indeed baffling, considering the amount of time they must've had to create them

I'm also confused as to why they didn't add Moyglare to the final destination, that would've been wayyy better. Are the NTA really this lazily incompetent?