BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

Ronald Binge Redux · 27-08-2022 2:18pm

”Second of all, no where in my post did I suggest that we get rid of cards or leap!! I have no idea where you got that idea!”

Read my post again. I also have no idea why you jumped to that conclusion. I support contactless and Leap on PT as a backup to iPhones etc. Cash should be a thing of the past on public transport.

My niece in London got stranded this summer because her non iPhone smart phone died and her mum had to lift her from town as her phone didn’t have the iPhone dead phone facility. Not everyone has an iPhone and PT should cater for that.

bk · 27-08-2022 2:52pm

“Read my post again. I also have no idea why you jumped to that conclusion. I support contactless and Leap on PT as a backup to iPhones etc. Cash should be a thing of the past on public transport”

Then I’ve no idea why you quoted my post and replied as you did. Because no where in my post you quoted did I say anything about relying only on smartphones or getting rid of Leap cards!

Why I say is we follow the TFi/London Bus model, which is get rid of cash, but introduce support for contactless EMV payments, while retaining Leap/Oyster cards.

EMV contactless support, means support for smartphone payments, but also support for contactless debit/credit, which of course require no battery.

You would also keep the Leap card, as that is needed anyway for free travel pass users, child card, student card, monthly/yearly tickets, etc. Absolutely no one is suggesting getting rid of that, just adding options to it with EMV contactless.

What happened to your niece is unfortunate, but nothing new, people have been left behind for years because they didn’t have enough coins for the fare or only had paper money ( not accepted) or ran out of credit on a leap card or left it at home, etc.

” Not everyone has an iPhone and PT should cater for that.”

And it does, she could have used any contactless credit/debit card or Oyster card in London. If she had cash, she could have even gone to any TFI ticket machine or shop and bought a disposable oyster card with the ticket she needed to get home. Loads of options.

if she left home with just her phone and no backup credit/debit card or cash, we’ll that is just lesson learned. I would always recommend to carry a backup card just in case. You need your physical ATM card anyway if you want to take money out of an ATM, phones mostly can’t do that (I know one or two banks offer an emergency cash option from a phone)

TheChrisD · 27-08-2022 11:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119526626#Comment_119526626

Currently only two banks charge for contactless transactions — BoI and Ulster — and that charge is all of... one cent.

Ronald Binge Redux · 28-08-2022 9:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119531223#Comment_119531223

Thanks for that. I’ll stick to Leap at 0c per transaction.

Qrt · 28-08-2022 10:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119531223#Comment_119531223

Fairly sure BOI got rid of all individual transaction charges in favour of their €6 monthly fee, and Ulster Bank is irrelevant given their imminent closure.

rx8 · 29-08-2022 7:53am

Apparently the NTA are considering new reduced schedules on the C Spine to increase number of buses and drivers that would be available for the introduction of the new G-Spine.

Good luck with that.... the drivers are based in different garages for a start,and not likely to transfer any time soon.

bk · 29-08-2022 10:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119531925#Comment_119531925

Sure and you will be able to continue to do so even when they rollout contactlesss payments.

Though I’d point out if you have a bank that charges you for debit and ATM transactions, then it costs you to top up a leap card too!

If you use a debit or credit card to top up the leap card in a shop or via the app, and your bank charges for their use, then topping up the leap card will still end up with that transaction fee.

if you use cash to top up your leap card, well where did you get the cash? Some banks charge a much as 50c to withdraw cash from an ATM.

Either way crappy banks will get their pound of flesh

of course this is all easily avoided, get yourself a Revolut account, they have zero charges for debit transactions and even allow you to withdraw up to €200 per month from ATM for free if you prefer that. Plenty of other free or cheap banking options too, N26, EBS, etc.

bk · 29-08-2022 10:26am

As we are talking about ticketing, I was recently looking at the OV-chipkaart in Amsterdam, a transport card very similar to Leap cards and I noted they have two great new features that I’d love to see brought to Leap

AutoTop, of course we also have auto-top, I’ve been using it for years and it works well. However what’s Great about the Amsterdam implementation is the low cost. You can auto topup by as little as €10 when the balance falls below €0. So you only ever have max €10 on the card. A frequent complaint about the leap topup is how expensive it is. Minimum topup is €30 and charge when your balance falls below €10, so you could have as much as €40 stuck on your leap card. That might be fine for some people, but can be difficult for low earners. If they can do just €10 in Amsterdam, I see no reason why we can’t have the same here.
Post pay cards. While they still have the pre pay wallet option like Leap, they have also now introduced the option of post pay of the OV card. Basically you have zero balance on your OV card, but can use it away, then at the end of the month, you get a bill for all the travel you did, which you pay at the end of the month. Kind of like how an electricity bill works. They even give a discount for using this service versus pre pay. The advantage of this service is that you never have to worry about topping up or being left behind because you forgot to top up. Very nice.

It would seem to me that it would be relatively straight forward to implement both of these features on the existing leap cards, without need much in the way of new ticket machines, etc. Specially the first one, that should be trivial to do.

LXFlyer · 29-08-2022 10:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119536285#Comment_119536285

If I recall correctly, the reason for the larger Top-Up here was down to a limit that the Irish banks imposed on the number of times in one week a direct debit could be applied?

EUR 30 was used as it was roughly equivalent to a weekly cap in Dublin.

bk · 29-08-2022 11:08am

“If I recall correctly, the reason for the larger Top-Up here was down to a limit that the Irish banks imposed on the number of times in one week a direct debit could be applied?”

Id never heard of that, but it does make some logical sense. Though I’d hope that the NTA could renegotiate it with the banks. After all if Dutch banks can handle more frequent top ups, I can’t see why the Irish banks can’t too.

Of course introducing monthly post pay like Amsterdam now has, would resolve this issue too.

LXFlyer · 29-08-2022 11:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119536521#Comment_119536521

It was mentioned here before, I’m 100% sure of that, and you were definitely in that discussion at the time!! :-)

It does sound like a banking issue to be honest.

Qrt · 29-08-2022 6:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119536285#Comment_119536285

The Parisienne system has a similar option, Navigo Liberté; all trips are discounted (€1.49 vs €1.90) and debited at the end of the month.

Considering how bright the future for public transport is in the country (and yes, I think it is), this would be a very useful option to have ready to go.

Cookie_Monster · 30-08-2022 2:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119536591#Comment_119536591

The Irish banking system is totally disfunctional, this appears to just be another symptom of that. Same reason continental banks wont operate here

howiya · 31-08-2022 12:35am

Worked late tonight (don't ask) but on similar occasions the 00:00am has connected with a 14. Hasn't happened tonight/this morning.

Real time app showed it was possible. Didn't work out that way

Citrus_8 · 31-08-2022 1:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119545765#Comment_119545765

The bus could have been cancelled or didn't go past the city centre.

howiya · 31-08-2022 1:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119545805#Comment_119545805

The NTA app shows cancellations. It didn’t tonight. Next 14 7 hours time. I walked home rather than waiting but the name bus connects rings hollow

Citrus_8 · 31-08-2022 1:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119545825#Comment_119545825

14 isn't BusConnected yet so it's irrelevant to mention BusConnects in this occasion.

howiya · 31-08-2022 1:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119545829#Comment_119545829

It interacts with the N4. It didn't tonight

dublinman1990 · 31-08-2022 2:33am

Where does the N4 interact with the 14 en route?

thomasj · 31-08-2022 8:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119545868#Comment_119545868

Collins Avenue . Just before the 14 turns into Beaumont.

That connection is handy when there but had to walk from the far end of Beaumont at 2am one night did it in 15 minutes and cought the bus a few minutes later.

LXFlyer · 31-08-2022 8:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119545765#Comment_119545765

It might help if you explained the situation properly.

The “00:00am” departure on which route, from where and to where, and where did you plan to connect?

How long does the journey planner say the planned connection time was?

I would be exceptionally wary of a suggested connection into the last departure on any route that didn’t have a reasonable time buffer built in.

VonLuck · 31-08-2022 9:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119545825#Comment_119545825

What's the exact name of that app? I see screenshots from it on here regularly. Is it reliable?

LXFlyer · 31-08-2022 9:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119546352#Comment_119546352

It’s the TFI Journey Planner app and TFI Real Time app.

They are the only ones that will display cancelled and curtailed departures and you can also look back along the route to see where buses actually are - that’s useful if the link between the GPS live position and the predictive times is broken. That can happen near the start of the route and it’s handy to be able to look and see where a bus actually is.

AngryLips · 31-08-2022 10:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119546399#Comment_119546399

There was a no-show DB recently for me that wasn't shown as cancelled and was flagged on the TFI app as 'real-time'. When I messaged DB twitter I was recommended to use the DB app and sure enough, when I checked the DB app the bus wasn't listed. This lack of joined up dots is a real problem.

LXFlyer · 31-08-2022 11:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119546525#Comment_119546525

I’ve stopped using the DB app as it does not show curtailed services properly.

The TFI one is the best around now for that reason.

Again, the map is the best feature. Looking back along the bus route to see where a bus actually is has to be the most useful feature.

No app is going to be spot on with the predictive times, but being able to follow a bus on the map as it comes towards the stop you’re at is very handy.

The GPS tends to be the one bit that 99% of the time works.