BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

tom1ie

Can someone please tell us what route the argument is over, otherwise I’m calling fake news!!

tom1ie

tom1ie wrote: »

Can someone please tell us what route the argument is over, otherwise I’m calling fake news!!

41c but actually I have to admit, I got the connect system confused with a different scheme that was planned for swords. Hold my hands up, I was wrong

Mind you, the routes for swords are still in consultation so could change meanwhile my service has already been cut meaning I can no longer use public transport for day shifts.

AlekSmart

donvito99 wrote: »

As per my earlier link, the planner of this network redesign was able to demonstrate empirically that more areas of Dublin are covered by the bus service.

Whilst your particular circumstances may change for the worse, the majority of Dubliners avail of an improved service.

Dublin Bus running a bus service their way does not mean that it is the way to do things.

The new plan is well thought out, well intentioned and international best practice. And the proof is in New Zealand. Where two cities hired Jarrett Walker. One implemented his plan and saw ridership increase by 10%. The other ignored his proposals and went with their own, and saw no notable increase whatsover.

I'll take Walker and the NTA over the NBRU and entitled residents any day.

Perhaps the most important element of the current BusConnects plan,is the reality that Jarrett Walker is no longer directly involved in it's implimentation.

Walker devised and presented perhaps the most focused and comprehensive Bus Plan ever completed for the City,and most importantly made himself fully available and willing to engage in debate on his plan,in stark contrast to the many "Expert/Consultant" re[orts and reviews completed over the decades,

Many of his detractors forget,or disregard,the reality of BusConnects being a plan to take Dublin's bus based public transport as far as 2040,not tomorrow week,as would be the traditional Irish version of forward planning.

Walker carried no baggage,and as a result his BusConnects came head to head with a great variety of the Country's previously undisturbed political,social and even historic groupings.

The scale and depth of ignorance amongst Public Representatives on the realities of Bus Service provision in the Greater Dublin Area has proven to be shocking,with some of the responses and counter claims verging in the insane,even managing to squeeze in Donald Trump as a weapon of resistance.

https://twitter.com/OConnorOisin/status/1186964039794073601

With the BusConnects plan,Jarrett Walker fully met his side of the bargain,leaving only our traditional administrators and politicians to uphold theirs,something which I suspect is becoming less certain as time passes.

Sadly,I now believe that Walkers BusConnects vision has been effectively neutered,in traditional fashion,by a parochialism and short-sightedness which has defined modern Irishness since the formation of the State.

Ah sure,It'll be grand

Hotblack Desiato

Wow, what a rude, ignorant person that Deirdre Conroy is.

PhilOssophy

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Wow, what a rude, ignorant person that Deirdre Conroy is.

She probably gets her votes on Rathgar Road and couldn't give a toss about those using the buses down that road

L1011

She got bugger all votes last month thankfully
Edit: this month - it feels like it was longer ago!

PhilOssophy

L1011 wrote: »

She got bugger all votes last month thankfully
Edit: this month - it feels like it was longer ago!

She's still on the council so we are still paying for her.

jd

PhilOssophy wrote: »

She's still on the council so we are still paying for her.

She is standing for the Seanad
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/elections/seanad-general-election-2020/

dublinman1990

EcoEye has started on RTÉ One now with the title 'Ending Gridlock'. I think this programme is looking at BusConnects at a national sense rather than just Dublin.

TheChrisD

Yea, it definitely wasn't all about BusConnects like what the EPG was claiming; and was a lot more so about the bus/cycle corridor plans but with a country-wide scope.

dublinman1990

OK. EcoEye just finished on RTÉ One a short while ago. Here is my assessment after watching it tonight.

A few areas of Dublin were covered in the programme that were being proposed from BC like Pembroke Road, Ballycullen & Inchicore. But the programme itself only covered the infrastructure side of BC. A number of people in the programme were only talking about proposals to change the road network from the Core Bus Corridor proposals that were affected by those plans. The programme itself did not talk about the BC route redesign proposals for Dublin at all. I thought that was very foolish from EcoEye's perspective because the newest proposals for the route network re-design in Dublin were only released a few months ago since last autumn. It covers the most important element of the whole project in that they cover most people who commute or travel on the actual bus routes themselves around Dublin rather than people who solely drive by car or cycle by bike. Actual bus passengers that regularly use the bus for commuting into Dublin CC were left out of the entire programme.

One example from it was the interview with the young lady living in Ballycullen where herself & her husband commutes every day into the CC. She mentions that she pays about €50 pw for the Leap card or €2.65 each way for every working day on the bus to commute into Dublin. As the interview went on; a number of important things were left out when talking about the actual proposals. The programme left out mentioning of the new 90 minute Leap Card fare with free transfers on Dart, Commuter Rail & Luas which is a hugely critical part of the actual route re-designs proposals within Dublin. This lady from Ballycullen lives along the 15 from Ballycullen to Clongriffin Dart Station. She also didn't mention that the 15 recently became a 24 hour service provided from Dublin Bus since the 1st of December.

The programme covered the CBC proposals in Inchicore where a section of that road was proposed to turn into a one-way street whilst it retained the trees. The young lady who was covered in Inchicore was happy in talking about the plans for BC when re-designed proposals for the areas were released last year in which I thought was a positive. The programme actually showed plans on screen of one of the official CBC proposals for Inchicore which was very good to see.

The programme had to cover other areas of the country too like Galway & Limerick because BC covers Cork, Limerick, Waterford & Galway as well as Dublin.

One positive from this part of the programme was the showing of brief visuals of the proposed high frequency bus route network map in Galway county & artist impressions of the new bus lane & street layouts in Galway City. A visual of the new proposed N7 was shown in it as well which I thought was good as well. Duncan was in Limerick to talk to a group of parents & school kids about this new Cycle Bus initiative while travelling over that big bridge in Limerick while cycling to School with the parents. That road along that bridge in Limerick is very tricky because of a lack of cycle lanes on it. It would be quite dangerous for cyclists to travel along it if the bridge only has the capacity to cater for cars & other main road vehicles. One positive from that piece in Limerick was the mentioning of 200km of newly proposed segregated cycle lanes which is a major part of the CBC proposals that feature across Dublin.

The programme also talked about the school kids who travel to school on their parent's commute by car. A transport & planning professor from TU Dublin was quoting a figure from a low of 24% some time ago to a present of 60% now. How come this figure is so astonishingly high? I know convenience was mentioned as one factor in doing it every morning. I do wonder though how of an effect will that have on these kids if they see the new bus routes being implemented in their area in future. Could they still stick with using their parent's car to get into school rather than using the bus to get to school in the morning? I would say that a high proportion of these kids could be of a very small age in that they go to either a National school or an Educate Together school with their parents by car. They may not have access to an official school bus service in their area which means that they have to rely on their parent's car to get them into school. There are a number of kids who travel with their parents by car to secondary school as well. But I do not know how high that particular figure is at the moment.

Does anyone here have hard figures which breaks down into these specific categories?

BonnieSituation

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

During certain hours I can change yes, at night I cannot. The bus that serves my estate now finishes at 10.45 pm meaning I can no longer get it home from a late shift.

There is no other bus servicing my estate

I can however get the new 24 hour bus that ignores half the estates in my area and then walk as i said.

So now I can't get the bus to work on an early shift because it leaves later and i can't get it home after a late shift because it leaves earlier. I can get it on a night shift which is the one shift that traffic and parking is not a problem.

I'm sorry, I can't take you on the face of what you say.

Any chance you could give us some idea of the routes in question? and the general area of this 40min walk? It's just ludicrous to my mind tbh.

CatInABox

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I'm sorry, I can't take you on the face of what you say.

Any chance you could give us some idea of the routes in question? and the general area of this 40min walk? It's just ludicrous to my mind tbh.

They've already admitted their mistake, Bonnie.

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

41c but actually I have to admit, I got the connect system confused with a different scheme that was planned for swords. Hold my hands up, I was wrong

Mind you, the routes for swords are still in consultation so could change meanwhile my service has already been cut meaning I can no longer use public transport for day shifts.

BonnieSituation

CatInABox wrote: »

They've already admitted their mistake, Bonnie.

I missed that amongst his barrage of responses.

Apologies NinerLeprechaun.

Peregrine

Three next Core Bus Corridors public consultation will start on Wednesday, March 4.

cgcsb

So the earliest grant of planning permission possible will be summer of 2021, almost 2 years behind programme, good to know.

Cookie_Monster

Peregrine wrote: »

Three next Core Bus Corridors public consultation will start on Wednesday, March 4.

Wait, there's still consultation happening? Why hasn't the entire project been completed by now...

Peregrine

cgcsb wrote: »

So the earliest grant of planning permission possible will be summer of 2021, almost 2 years behind programme, good to know.

The second consultation is only a few months behind schedule and a lot of it was to facilitate the election, MetroLink, Christmas period etc. Work will have been ongoing in the background.

cgcsb

The revised network was supposed to be in place in 2019 and the corridors were to have begun construction shortly after according to the original time table. But yes according to the latest 'schedule' we're optimistically 6 months behind

AlekSmart

cgcsb wrote: »

The revised network was supposed to be in place in 2019 and the corridors were to have begun construction shortly after according to the original time table. But yes according to the latest 'schedule' we're optimistically 6 months behind

Sadly,it is par for the Irish course in matters infrastructural.

Jarrett Walker is,IMO,well off being out of it as the long established,and pandered to groupings of native stakeholders take effective command.

The end result of the tinkering with Walker's BusConnects plan will result in little,if any real gains for current and future Bus Commuters,and the very real prospect of significant deterioration in the overall prospect of a unified,flexible and affordable set of Public Transport Operations.

Ireland,and Irish Public Transport,does not much care for visionaries,particularly if they are from out forren.....!

Qrt

Peregrine wrote: »

Three next Core Bus Corridors public consultation will start on Wednesday, March 4.

I assume that’s when the full revised documents will be released? All I’ve heard so far is piecemeal information, unless I’m completely out of the loop…

cgcsb

Official confirmation this morning that the planning app will be made 'late' this year so earliest planning approval will be late 2021. Meaning construction start will optimistically be 2022. This project seems to be slipping further and further away.

cherryghost

FFS. Dunno about you guys but in the past 12 months alone my commute times by bus have increased drastically, extremely frustrating. Was really hoping for something sooner than later.

Seth Brundle

cherryghost wrote: »

FFS. Dunno about you guys but in the past 12 months alone my commute times by bus have increased drastically, extremely frustrating. Was really hoping for something sooner than later.

On the outer edge of Dublin (Lucan area), it takes me less time to cycle than to drive! Commuting by bus would obviously take longer also given that in many places, busses are not separated from regular traffic with a bus lane.
Traffic is definitley getting worse and many politicians don't want to risk rocking the boat by bringing in what is generally regarded by the experts as a positive change for commuters.

MJohnston

cgcsb wrote: »

This project seems to be slipping further and further away.

This seems a bit overdramatic. Additional consultations and that were to be expected from any infrastructure project in Dublin. While they are vexatious, I don't think any of the consultations we've seen have been spurious.

Nor do I get the impression of a project that is spinning its wheels. Instead it looks like we're seeing a raw project being shaped into something more compatible with the city. There is forward momentum.

PhilOssophy

Think we can expect a lot more 1-way streets by the sounds of it, but at least the SUV driving objectors will be happy

Cookie_Monster

MJohnston wrote: »

This seems a bit overdramatic. Additional consultations and that were to be expected from any infrastructure project in Dublin. While they are vexatious, I don't think any of the consultations we've seen have been spurious.

Nor do I get the impression of a project that is spinning its wheels. Instead it looks like we're seeing a raw project being shaped into something more compatible with the city. There is forward momentum.

Really doubt it tbh. The single biggest issue with pt in Ireland is public consultation. Just implement the plan that was delivered by experts and in 6 months everyone in Dublin will love it, but no, lets spend 6-12 months of public consultation which ends up watering it down to the same bs we've seen for years and years and years which continues to fail to deliver anything remotely useful...

Alkers

I received a letter yesterday stating that they would no longer be taking a portion of our front garden and that revised plans would be made available today.

On viewing the website, the main text seems to indicate that there are some revisions made to the preferred routes as contained in the brochures from January 2019. I've looked at the relevant brochure to us only and I can't see anywhere where any amendments have been made.

Has anyone noticed any amendments to the plans yet and where these have been highlighted?

MJohnston

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Really doubt it tbh.

What bit do you doubt?

cgcsb

MJohnston wrote: »

This seems a bit overdramatic. Additional consultations and that were to be expected from any infrastructure project in Dublin. While they are vexatious, I don't think any of the consultations we've seen have been spurious.

Nor do I get the impression of a project that is spinning its wheels. Instead it looks like we're seeing a raw project being shaped into something more compatible with the city. There is forward momentum.

A whopping 2 whole years behind programme optimistically speaking