BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

Tickityboo

StreetLight wrote: »

The 81 terminated at Bangor Circle.

Sorry I misread your answer I thought you meant the 81 went to Rochestown.

john boye

IE 222 wrote: »

The 55 was definitely finished for a year or so before the 155 came on. Yeah I remember that 54 route now. The A only went up to Wellington IIRC.

The 55 lasted right up until the 155 started. It became the 155 and the 50 became the 150 on the same day in May 94. The 54 was cancelled and the 54A was extended to the Square that day too. There were widescale changes all over the South-West of the city that day.

One thing I'm not clear on though is the route the 55 took before the changes. Did it turn up Captain's Road and head to Crumlin Village and then the sub and turn on to Cromwellsfort Road?

ITV2

StreetLight wrote: »

The 81 terminated at Bangor Circle.

http://www.dublinbus.cc/D464%20R81%20270811.JPG

IE 222

john boye wrote: »

The 55 lasted right up until the 155 started. It became the 155 and the 50 became the 150 on the same day in May 94. The 54 was cancelled and the 54A was extended to the Square that day too. There were widescale changes all over the South-West of the city that day.

One thing I'm not clear on though is the route the 55 took before the changes. Did it turn up Captain's Road and head to Crumlin Village and then the sub and turn on to Cromwellsfort Road?

Pretty much. The 55 went up Ravensdale rd, Cashel Rd, Armagh Rd and onto St. Agnes road before turning at the sub.

IE 222

StreetLight wrote: »

The 81 terminated at Bangor Circle.

Yeah your right.

salmocab

IE 222 wrote: »

The 55 was definitely finished for a year or so before the 155 came on. Yeah I remember that 54 route now. The A only went up to Wellington IIRC.

It wasn’t it went to the imp and then back, it never stopped as a route

MJohnston

Folks, I'm sure you're having fun with all this nostalgia, but it's a bit confusing for those of us looking for Bus Connects news!

sharper

MJohnston wrote: »

Folks, I'm sure you're having fun with all this nostalgia, but it's a bit confusing for those of us looking for Bus Connects news!

It's possibly a reflection of how mild the redesign is now. There are pages and pages of anything but busconnects.

SPDUB

So after looking at the changes to the 122 on the southside it seems the changes to it are to stop anyone in Drimagh using it to get to Griffith College and the Rathmines end of Camden Street.

It basically seems to be following it's current route as far as Donore Avenue where it turns and eventually gets to Kevin street where it turns back onto its current route

donvito99

SPDUB wrote: »

So after looking at the changes to the 122 on the southside it seems the changes to it are to stop anyone in Drimagh using it to get to Griffith College and the Rathmines end of Camden Street.

It basically seems to be following it's current route as far as Donore Avenue where it turns and eventually gets to Kevin street where it turns back onto its current route

Well you could change to the O to the top of Portobello, or the S2 to the top of Rathmines.

Sam Russell

Posted in error.

thomasj

After reading the full planned changes for Blanchardstown , I have issues with it:

so the plan is to have the B1 and B2 run as follows:

- every 30 minutes , between 5am and 6am. Given that the 39a has only been upgraded to run 10 minutes between 5-6 , it seems bizarre to cut it back so much ?

- 7am-9am both the B1 and B2 are scheduled to run every 15 minutes. fair enough, there are peak services planned, but these will only be run between 7 and 8. Furthermore I would be concerned that not much thought has been put into the traffic issues with the ongar and hartstown loops or that there will be a reduction in capacity as a result of the loss of the VTs.

- Saturday and Sunday evenings it's planned to be every 20 or even 30 minutes. Have these people not seen numbers using Blanchardstown centre stops outbound at those times ? There are times you cannot get on a bus at the shops directly after the shopping centre .

I'd also be concerned with the lack of thought for contingency. If the B1 or B2 runs into problems , people who rely solely on those routes are stuck .

In my opinion what should happen should be:

- B1 and B2 run every 20 minutes , every 30 minutes off peak.
- local service from ongar to Blanchardstown centre via clonsilla station and hartstown loop should run every 20 minutes , 30 minutes off peak.

That gives a service of approx 10 minutes (15 off peak) for hartstown/ongar folks.

Benefits are , alternative options for people , they can get the bus to other connections , contingency plans in case of bad traffic in city/en route.

Also don't like that for what the brochure says , I had to read the updated report to find out that every 10-15 minutes actually means every 15 minutes.

MB05

thomasj wrote: »

After reading the full planned changes for Blanchardstown , I have issues with it:

so the plan is to have the B1 and B2 run as follows:

- every 30 minutes , between 5am and 6am. Given that the 39a has only been upgraded to run 10 minutes between 5-6 , it seems bizarre to cut it back so much ?

- 7am-9am both the B1 and B2 are scheduled to run every 15 minutes. fair enough, there are peak services planned, but these will only be run between 7 and 8. Furthermore I would be concerned that not much thought has been put into the traffic issues with the ongar and hartstown loops or that there will be a reduction in capacity as a result of the loss of the VTs.

- Saturday and Sunday evenings it's planned to be every 20 or even 30 minutes. Have these people not seen numbers using Blanchardstown centre stops outbound at those times ? There are times you cannot get on a bus at the shops directly after the shopping centre .

I'd also be concerned with the lack of thought for contingency. If the B1 or B2 runs into problems , people who rely solely on those routes are stuck .

In my opinion what should happen should be:

- B1 and B2 run every 20 minutes , every 30 minutes off peak.
- local service from ongar to Blanchardstown centre via clonsilla station and hartstown loop should run every 20 minutes , 30 minutes off peak.

That gives a service of approx 10 minutes (15 off peak) for hartstown/ongar folks.

Benefits are , alternative options for people , they can get the bus to other connections , contingency plans in case of bad traffic in city/en route.

Also don't like that for what the brochure says , I had to read the updated report to find out that every 10-15 minutes actually means every 15 minutes.

The 17a that currently runs from Howth Junction to Blanchardstown Shopping Centre will no longer be going to Blanchardstown under this new scheme either. It will be going to Charlestown instead. Not sure of the wisdom of this either as it's an extremely popular route that fills and empties a number of times along the route. It goes quite close to a number of shopping centres (Northside, Omni Park, Gullivers Retail Park, Ikea, and of course Blanch), hospitals (Beaumont, Cappagh, Northwood Sports Clinic, James Connolly) and places like DCU and the National Aquatic Centre. It will still serve some of this but will be a huge loss to anyone along this non city centre route who uses it to go to work in Blanch or just likes to shop or socialise along the route.

TheChrisD

thomasj wrote: »

After reading the full planned changes for Blanchardstown , I have issues with it:

Are your issues solely focused on service to Ongar/Harts/Hunts/Clonsilla? There is some slightly lesser service to these areas as the rest of the B-spine is being spread to more of D15 with the Tyrellstown B3, and the B4 direct to the Centre. Ultimately though, just how much of the current 39/39A service is used past the Blanch centre, and it is enough to justify as much service as they get now?

There's also the consideration that Huntstown will get access to the 264 Centre shuttle once the Huntstown Wood bus gate gets put in.

MB05 wrote: »

The 17a that currently runs from Howth Junction to Blanchardstown Shopping Centre will no longer be going to Blanchardstown under this new scheme either. Not sure of the wisdom of this either as it's an extremely popular route that fills and empties a number of times along the route.

It will still exist in the form of both the N4 and the N8 orbitals. N8 from Howth Junction to Finglas Village almost as the 17a currently is, but going via Balbutcher rather than Glasnevin Avenue. There it meets up with the N4, which is the current 17a from Blanch to Ballymun Road, but then continues along Collins Avenue to Killester before heading down to Spencer Dock.

MB05

TheChrisD wrote: »

It will still exist in the form of both the N4 and the N8 orbitals. N8 from Howth Junction to Finglas Village almost as the 17a currently is, but going via Balbutcher rather than Glasnevin Avenue. There it meets up with the N4, which is the current 17a from Blanch to Ballymun Road, but then continues along Collins Avenue to Killester before heading down to Spencer Dock.

I thought the whole point of this radical overhaul is to get more people to the places they want to go to quicker. I don't see how it is of any benefit to people like me to have to get off one bus and wait up to 15 mins for a connecting bus (going by the frequency of 10-15 mins as per the website).

The 17a used to only go as far as Finglas and you would have to get a 220 to Blanch. It was a nightmare waiting around for connections back then. I never felt safe where the buses intersected and I can't see it being any better under BusConnects. This kind of thing is grand when you are talking about an underground like the Tube that comes every 3-5 mins walking through a tube station but unless they can guarantee a bus connection in that same timeframe it's worthless. The journey is long enough as it is.

I just don't get why they are messing with this route. It serves more people in it's current format. If anything it needs more buses at peak times.

thomasj

TheChrisD wrote:

Are your issues solely focused on service to Ongar/Harts/Hunts/Clonsilla? There is some slightly lesser service to these areas as the rest of the B-spine is being spread to more of D15 with the Tyrellstown B3, and the B4 direct to the Centre. Ultimately though, just how much of the current 39/39A service is used past the Blanch centre, and it is enough to justify as much service as they get now?

I would be happy to see a slightly reduced service to the ongar/hartstown/clonsilla area if the buses offset from it were used for a local service . A 20 minute service to the city combined with a 20 minute local service would give a 10 minute frequency.

We have seen enough disruption in the city this year , and if, in the Sunday evening peak buses are running late , it's going to leave a serious effect on passenger numbers waiting at Blanchardstown centre and with the VTs disappearing will end up leaving passengers behind etc.

The other idea of a local service is contingency , to allow for this scenario . To give passengers to take one of the other routes or a DART home and make a connection . A bit of common Sense.

MJohnston

MB05 wrote: »

I thought the whole point of this radical overhaul is to get more people to the places they want to go to quicker

Well, no, this isn't actually the primary aim of it, or wasn't during the initial consultation. It was about frequency and reliability first and foremost. These factors, not journey times, have the greatest impact on how people feel about transport services.

AlekSmart

MJohnston wrote: »

Well, no, this isn't actually the primary aim of it, or wasn't during the initial consultation. It was about frequency and reliability first and foremost. These factors, not journey times, have the greatest impact on how people feel about transport services.

This is exactly what's puzzling me,as the NTA appear to have gone off on one,by fiddling around with J.Walkers tightly focused Busconnects,and instead replaced it with a significantly altered Busconnects Lite.

Walker's Busconnects offered a 27% increase in service levels,yet NTA Busconnects promises a 22% increase.

Daith

AlekSmart wrote: »

This is exactly what's puzzling me,as the NTA appear to have gone off on one,by fiddling around with J.Walkers tightly focused Busconnects,and instead replaced it with a significantly altered Busconnects Lite.

Walker's Busconnects offered a 27% increase in service levels,yet NTA Busconnects promises a 22% increase.

The NTA have responded to political pressure in the only way they know how.

Hurrache

MJohnston wrote: »

Well, no, this isn't actually the primary aim of it, or wasn't during the initial consultation. It was about frequency and reliability first and foremost. These factors, not journey times, have the greatest impact on how people feel about transport services.

Like I mentioned a couple of days ago, in the broader D15 area Hollystown seems to be having its already poor service removed altogether so a definitive black mark against how those living their feel about transport services.

r93kaey5p2izun

Where can I see detailed frequencies for proposed routes? The original proposal documents had details of weekday/Sat/Sun peak and off-peak frequencies. The new area leaflet just states off-peak with a footnote that it will vary at other times. Am I missing more detailed documentation, as I see others referring to more specific timeframes in their posts here?

TheChrisD

Anaya Angry Meatloaf wrote: »

Where can I see detailed frequencies for proposed routes?

https://busconnects.ie/media/1769/fullreport_chapter_7.pdf

Pages 100-107

r93kaey5p2izun

TheChrisD wrote: »

https://busconnects.ie/media/1769/fullreport_chapter_7.pdf

Pages 100-107

Thank you.

Still a cut in Saturday frequency for Lucan South, and basically no improvement in daily city bound services which are already unable to cope with volume.

Any sign of commuter rail being included in the 90 minute fare? If not then the improved rail connections in a lot of the Lucan/Leixlip/Celbridge area aren't going to compensate for a barely changed city service that seems to ignore the tens of thousands of houses being built and planned in the area.

Last Stop

MJohnston wrote: »

Well, no, this isn't actually the primary aim of it, or wasn't during the initial consultation. It was about frequency and reliability first and foremost. These factors, not journey times, have the greatest impact on how people feel about transport services.

Both of these factors are extremely difficult to provide with buses

MJohnston

Last Stop wrote: »

Both of these factors are extremely difficult to provide with buses

Please stop replying to me, I have zero interest in engaging with you.

loyatemu

Anaya Angry Meatloaf wrote: »

Any sign of commuter rail being included in the 90 minute fare?

yes the 90 minute flat fare will cover all modes (within the Short Hop Zone I guess).

Last Stop

MJohnston wrote: »

Please stop replying to me, I have zero interest in engaging with you.

Not asking you to engage with me. Just pointing out the obvious flaws in your statement.

r93kaey5p2izun

loyatemu wrote: »

yes the 90 minute flat fare will cover all modes (within the Short Hop Zone I guess).

Is that now stated somewhere definitively? The new Chapter 7 document states it is a "key assumption" that the 90 min fare will apply across all modes inc commuter rail, but the area leaflets state it will apply bus, Luas and DART with no reference to commuter rail. And following publication of the first plan, I had confirmation from BusConnects on twitter that it didn't include commuter rail, and from Dan Constantino who said it wasn't included but should be.

Joker2019

Anaya Angry Meatloaf wrote: »

Is that now stated somewhere definitively? The new Chapter 7 document states it is a "key assumption" that the 90 min fare will apply across all modes inc commuter rail, but the area leaflets state it will apply bus, Luas and DART with no reference to commuter rail. And following publication of the first plan, I had confirmation from BusConnects on twitter that it didn't include commuter rail, and from Dan Constantino who said it wasn't included but should be.

By the time this is implemented the Dart will probably be extended to Maynooth, Hazelhatch and Balbriggan. Can't it happening in the near future.

Tomrota

loyatemu wrote: »

yes the 90 minute flat fare will cover all modes (within the Short Hop Zone I guess).

So, the likes of Naas, as it’s in the short hop zone for the train but not for the bus, will have the 90 minute flat fare for the commuter train but not for buses? That sounds fragmented AF.