3:57 Mile @ 16 years of Age

Itziger

[yt]2dBCfQMstts[/yt]

Some time for a school kid. Ingebrittsen, spelling notwithstanding

Edit: screwed up embedding.

Pherekydes

FFS, it was only 3:58. :rolleyes:

adrian522

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dBCfQMstts

Testosterscone

Ingebrigtsen Family All Time Ranking:

Henrik: 3.50.72
Filip: 3.55.02
Jakob: 3.58.07

Pfft not even fastest in his family.

RTE in talks for a Fittest family show down over 600m relay with the Borlee's coming to a TV near you

walshb

I'd love to know what EL G and Morceli and Coe and some others were running at that age....

Milers peak mid 20s most of the time...

El Caballo

walshb wrote: »

I'd love to know what EL G and Morceli and Coe and some others were running at that age....

Milers peak mid 20s most of the time...

Cram ran 3:57 at 17.

El Caballo

3:56.29 tonight in Bislett. Incredible stuff

walshb

El Caballo wrote: »

3:56.29 tonight in Bislett. Incredible stuff

He'll be down to 3 minutes by Tokyo!

raiders11

And he was out again today at the Stockholm Diamond League, running in the 1500m and set a new European Youth record of 3.39.92, beating his own time of 3.42.44, he set this time last year.

Chivito550

Fabulous runs, but really wouldn't get carried away. Mary Cain finished 9th in the World 1500m aged 17 years and 3 months, and has done precisely nothing in the 4 years since then.

Dubgal72

Chivito550 wrote: »

Fabulous runs, but really wouldn't get carried away. Mary Cain finished 9th in the World 1500m aged 17 years and 3 months, and has done precisely nothing in the 4 years since then.

I agree. Exceptional performances but I would be seriously concerned about a 16 year old child racing in a Diamond League environment, I just can't see him having the emotional maturity to address all the elements that make up athletic performance aside from the physical side. Even if he does, plenty of time for him to flourish slowly and over a longer time scale. Ovett on the international (adult) scene at 18 seems positively ancient compared to this guy!

Itziger

Dubgal72 wrote: »

I agree. Exceptional performances but I would be seriously concerned about a 16 year old child racing in a Diamond League environment, I just can't see him having the emotional maturity to address all the elements that make up athletic performance aside from the physical side. Even if he does, plenty of time for him to flourish slowly and over a longer time scale. Ovett on the international (adult) scene at 18 seems positively ancient compared to this guy!

I dunno. What's a kid, or a kid's coach, to do? He isn't going to learn much by racing against his peers, winning races by 10 or 15 seconds. We see it in other sports too with exceptional talents, think tennis. And in team sports and contact sports it can be worse I would have thought.

Yes, it is true that precocious talents don't always work out but as I say, what's the alternative for a 3.57 miler?

Dubgal72

Itziger wrote: »

I dunno. What's a kid, or a kid's coach, to do? He isn't going to learn much by racing against his peers, winning races by 10 or 15 seconds. We see it in other sports too with exceptional talents, think tennis. And in team sports and contact sports it can be worse I would have thought.

Yes, it is true that precocious talents don't always work out but as I say, what's the alternative for a 3.57 miler?

Yeah sure, if you're going to focus on purely the physical side, but I'd be more inclined to approach this athlete's career holistically.

There's more to being a successful athlete than just racing. I would want this guy to be the best he can be and I don't think being chucked into the cauldron of diamond league racing at 16 is going to allow him to be the best he can be.

Think of his career as a fire (keeping the cauldron analogy going); you can burn hot and hard - and very possibly burn out quickly - or stoke it slowly and bring it to full potential.

There's a discipline to training and racing and it's not just about being disciplined by doing all the right training, S&C and racing. There's a discipline in patience and timing too. If he's gonna be great, the greatness will wait and he'll be great/greater at 25 when he is in full physical and emotional maturity. We often talk about 'leaving your race in training' and I think adolescence is very much that: training for adulthood and I would be concerned he'll leave his 'race' in adolescence.

Just my opinion

Testosterscone

Dubgal72 wrote: »

I agree. Exceptional performances but I would be seriously concerned about a 16 year old child racing in a Diamond League environment, I just can't see him having the emotional maturity to address all the elements that make up athletic performance aside from the physical side. Even if he does, plenty of time for him to flourish slowly and over a longer time scale. Ovett on the international (adult) scene at 18 seems positively ancient compared to this guy!

To be fair I think that this most recent stint of DL experience will stand to him

Pre - Put in the International mile to push him to a PB while being competitive in field
Oslo - Home crowd, a field set up for him to gain coinfidence from and good front running practice
Stockholm - a taste at top level international competition to guard against complacency by showing just how far he is off the top guys while still gaining confidence from a WYR and holding the pace while effectively running solo

All these should set him up nicely for Euro Juniors in a months time.

Remember as well that he is currently in a training group with 2 European 1500m Champions (his brothers) so racing at senior level could be a fairly natural transition for him. His coach has come out and said before that he has been learning from mistakes made with each of the brothers so there does seem to be a long term plan in mind.

Dubgal72

Testosterscone wrote: »

Remember as well that he is currently in a training group with 2 European 1500m Champions (his brothers) so racing at senior level could be a fairly natural transition for him. His coach has come out and said before that he has been learning from mistakes made with each of the brothers so there does seem to be a long term plan in mind.

All the more reason to hold him back. In my mind, it is very relevant that these two European champions are his older brothers and the coach is the father. Quite a little hothouse environment and all the more reason to hold the 'runt' back.....
Saying that, Gjert has been quoted as saying that parents shouldn't coach (for all the usual reasons*) but his sons have chosen him to coach.


* "In an interview with the newspaper Aftenposten earlier this year, he said that parents shouldn’t coach their own childen and that people with education should do that. At the same time he admits that he does the opposite. “My sons wants me to coach them”.
“Parents shouldn’t be more engaged in the sports than the children”. And by this he means that the motivation should be the children’s, not the parent’s."

Testosterscone

Dubgal72 wrote: »

All the more reason to hold him back. In my mind, it is very relevant that these two European champions are his older brothers and the coach is the father. Quite a little hothouse environment and all the more reason to hold the 'runt' back.....
Saying that, Gjert has been quoted as saying that parents shouldn't coach (for all the usual reasons*) but his sons have chosen him to coach.


* "In an interview with the newspaper Aftenposten earlier this year, he said that parents shouldn’t coach their own childen and that people with education should do that. At the same time he admits that he does the opposite. “My sons wants me to coach them”.
“Parents shouldn’t be more engaged in the sports than the children”. And by this he means that the motivation should be the children’s, not the parent’s."

For me this is half the reason why I feel like Jakob could be exception to usual protocol. With Junior athletes normally its a case of deflated confidence at step up that see's Juniors fail to make the step up (big fish in small point suddenly flung into the deep blue sea) but here we have the kid coming from an already high pressured environment where he is chasing his training partners getting small bit of exposure early season before he goes into his target championships as arguably one of the favorites.

There is also the matter that given history there might well be a 3.35 East African "junior" who could have to compete against in Grosseto.

Dubgal72

Testosterscone wrote: »

For me this is half the reason why I feel like Jakob could be exception to usual protocol. With Junior athletes normally its a case of deflated confidence at step up that see's Juniors fail to make the step up (big fish in small point suddenly flung into the deep blue sea) but here we have the kid coming from an already high pressured environment where he is chasing his training partners getting small bit of exposure early season before he goes into his target championships as arguably one of the favorites.

There is also the matter that given history there might well be a 3.35 East African "junior" who could have to compete against in Grosseto.

Ok, ya got me Mylesie, this morning may be the most times I have signed in all year

I would still be inclined to exercise caution. As I said before, if he's gonna be great, the greatness won't go away while he is slowed down a tad. He is being touted as a 1500m specialist since age 15, possibly earlier. Why? Most kids only start to specialise in a sporting discipline age 15, not an event. And why 1500m? Am playing devil's advocate here but is he the 'perfection' in a 1500m 'experiment' with three prime, genetically-related guinea pigs?

That's an extreme view and ultimately, none of us here can know the insider view of the Ingebritsen circle but on a general scale, his participation in the senior elite side of things leaves me slightly uneasy. Didn't Filip have a rather aggressive showing last year that led to disqualification? I hope that is one of the "mistakes" Gjert is addressing.

16 has a whole lot of things going on aside from sporting excellence and I would hope that he is being allowed to develop holistically too. Precocious talent - in any discipline - requires very special handling. The wrong sort of handling and we're going towards child abuse. And let's not forget, that's all Jakob is, a child.

And a side from on general grounds of compassion, he'll be a helluva better athlete the more rounded he is

Testosterscone

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Ok, ya got me Mylesie, this morning may be the most times I have signed in all year

Actual athletics discussion around here? you know I will jump at the chance

Dubgal72 wrote: »

I would still be inclined to exercise caution. As I said before, if he's gonna be great, the greatness won't go away while he is slowed down a tad. He is being touted as a 1500m specialist since age 15, possibly earlier. Why? Most kids only start to specialise in a sporting discipline age 15, not an event. And why 1500m? Am playing devil's advocate here but is he the 'perfection' in a 1500m 'experiment' with three prime, genetically-related guinea pigs?

That's an extreme view and ultimately, none of us here can know the insider view of the Ingebritsen circle but on a general scale, his participation in the senior elite side of things leaves me slightly uneasy. Didn't Filip have a rather aggressive showing last year that led to disqualification? I hope that is one of the "mistakes" Gjert is addressing.

16 has a whole lot of things going on aside from sporting excellence and I would hope that he is being allowed to develop holistically too. Precocious talent - in any discipline - requires very special handling. The wrong sort of handling and we're going towards child abuse. And let's not forget, that's all Jakob is, a child.

And a side from on general grounds of compassion, he'll be a helluva better athlete the more rounded he is

Completely agree and given that Scandinavians have had issues with LTAD previously it is a valid concern but I suppose given we don't have the full facts it's just speculation

Did the 1500 come on the back of talent or might it have been motivated from seeing Henrik getting 5th in The Olympics and his progression?

Having said that I do believe that the fact that the two brothers act probably act as a buffer to an extent from the pushy parent syndrome usually seen in sports that usually creates an immediate demand for success.

I do feel long term development is crucial but I think the odd bit of exposure to top level competition can act as a good tool to create a desire to continue to develop as well as create an excitement with being able to race some of the best in the world and not be in awe when come to senior level. It also gives a rare chance to run against top class fields without having the pressure of expectation (how many athletes have the luxury of being beaten by 60-70m and it being seen as a very good run)

I agree with you on handling of special talents but I think you need to balance "handling a young athlete" but I think that this includes not being completely fearful of trying to nurture special talents.

walshb

A kid with this potential should be treated like a star and properly managed and pampered.

I just hope they don't overkill with him and burn him out, but racing in DL meets I wouldn't be too concerned about.

They are simply races against people and clocks. It's not like direct combat. You run as fast a time as possible.

raiders11

He is really showing off now:D, 13.49.54 for 5000m and is running a 3000m steeplechase somewhere tomorrow I think..

walshb

The 5 k time wouldn't overly impress me. It's slow mile running times 3. Really just endurance..

Pherekydes

Look away now, Walshy (a disappointing steeple debut):

https://twitter.com/JakobkongeJakob/status/883762702711115776

4:32 miling. Very poor.

For reference, the Irish senior record is 8:24.09.

It's a European junior record.

pconn062

walshb wrote: »

The 5 k time wouldn't overly impress me. It's slow mile running times 3. Really just endurance..

There you have it folks, it's just endurance really. A slow mile run three times, like a 400m race, a slow 100m run four times. You should write for the Irish Runner walshy.

walshb

When he runs a 12.55 aged 17 give us a bell!

Pherekydes

walshb wrote: »

When he runs a 12.55 aged 17 give us a bell!

A dismal 15.5 secs per 100m. :rolleyes: Primary school kids can run that fast. Just need some endurance and they'd manage 14 secs per 100m for 5000m (11:40)

walshb

Pherekydes wrote: »

Look away now, Walshy (a disappointing steeple debut):

https://twitter.com/JakobkongeJakob/status/883762702711115776

4:32 miling. Very poor.

For reference, the Irish senior record is 8:24.09.

It's a European junior record.

That steepling is excellent.....

If he works on his speed-endurance his 5 k time should improve..and will likely improve with maturity and strength.

The speed is there it seems.

Testosterscone

Plans to run 1500m, 5000m and 3000m S/C at European Juniors this week

RayCun

Testosterscone wrote: »

Plans to run 1500m, 5000m and 3000m S/C at European Juniors this week

Can they put them on one after another, so he just keeps running?:pac:

Testosterscone

RayCun wrote: »

Can they put them on one after another, so he just keeps running?:pac:

Won't be far off :pac:

Here is how it lines up

Thursday 20th 18.05 1500m (H)
Friday 21st 18.50 3000m SC (H)
Saturday 22nd 17.20 1500m (F)
Saturday 22nd 19.45 5000m (F)
Sunsay 23rd 17.55 3000m SC (F)

raiders11

Testosterscone wrote: »

Won't be far off :pac:

Here is how it lines up

Thursday 20th 18.05 1500m (H)
Friday 21st 18.50 3000m SC (H)
Saturday 22nd 17.20 1500m (F)
Saturday 22nd 19.45 5000m (F)
Sunsay 23rd 17.55 3000m SC (F)

And still a Junior in 2 years time:eek::eek:

raiders11

Well, just after watching his heat in the 1500m, no need for show boating like that:mad: