Munster vs. Scarlets, Pro12 Final, 18:15, 27 May 2017, TG4, S4C, SS1

leakyboots

Meh, you'll always have people leaving early, even when games are being won. I never leave before full-time myself, and it annoys me when others do - but some others are not too fussed or big fans and are there for the occasion. Some might have a long journey ahead of them and have seen enough. As long as people shout the team on when they're there I'm happy. I thought the support was good at the end of the game when it was over but Munster got the couple of tries, came across well on tv anyway. And it certainly didn't seem to empty out completely like the RDS match where the Leinster players barely had a couple of hundred clapping them for their season's efforts.

As for the season - what a season it was! Yeah, ended on a disappointing note with getting well-beaten at the latter end of both competitions, but given where we came from (scraping into Europe) and losing Axel - it's been a real rollercoaster - if I'm feeling a bit fatigued by it I can only imagine how the players are. CJ looks like he's barely half fit for e.g., all of them seemed to have lead in their boots.

Been beating the drum all season that when our pack has the upper hand it masks the flaws that our backs aren't equally well-drilled - there's only a handful of teams who can nullify that but when it happens we've no Plan B. That's on Felix for me. We looked like we were chucking it around more in the last two games, which gave me hope for the final, but then these passes weren't sticking against Scarlets. And then you'd Saili who was just absolutely headless in defence - a mistake to start him, and to be honest, I think that's his legacy - a livewire with ball in hand but just couldn't marshall the defence. The defensive system fell apart completely for a good chunk of the first half. It's like we learned nothing from the Thomond game and Leinster's performance the other day. Which grates.

Still, I can't be too down on them - it was a bridge too far but we've a serious platform to build on now for next season, get Kleyn in the row for massive oomph, get the backs on the same wavelength and things will improve drastically - it's not like there's no room for creativity with the likes of Earls (back to his best this season, such a classy player), Zebo (need to see him passing in the line more), Conway (definitely moved up a level), Sweetnam etc. Expecting big things from Wootton too next season.

Congrats Scarlets, good for the League that they won and did it playing a great brand of attacking rugby.

The "best fans in the world" thing has always been cringeworthy. Pashun, honesty, blah blah blah, it's all nonsense. It's been marketed well though and the fans (and Gerry Thornley) lap it up it seems.


Re. Felix Jones and the attack, yeah it's on him but what do you expect when you appoint a guy who's barely finished up playing to a senior coaching post with absolutely no experience or cutting his teeth? He's on a hiding to nothing.

CoDy1

The last train back to Limerick/Cork (before they added the 9:45pm late last week) was 9pm. People were going to be cutting it tight regardless of winning or losing.. People love banging on about how shameful/disgusting other teams fans are, its just sly digs and pathetic..

Buer

If someone pays to go to a match and leaves when they want to leave, that's completely fair enough. I couldn't give a fiddlers if they do and would do so myself if I had somewhere else to be.

The superiority of people thinking they're more deserving or better fans because they stay until the end is a little bit sad; they just have different situations or priorities. There's a lot more to life than rugby and pretending that you're part of a team where you don't know anyone on the field. If I was a Munster fan, I'd have no hesitation in saying I'd be moving towards the exit and getting home to my family before that final whistle.

leakyboots

Nah, it's not all nonsense. And as for attendance numbers, funny how it usually comes from Leinster fans, with 1.2m people on the doorstep of the RDS... but not usually a sellout...

I think people underestimate the economic battering that Limerick/Munster has taken over the last ten years. Mass emigration, people have less disposable income, people can't just go to every match they want anymore. The knockon effect is less money for sponsorship etc. Hell, even the player pool dwindles as a result of a downturn. We don't have outside backers topping up contracts. The MRSC has done great work to keep the ball rolling to get fans from outside Limerick/Cork to get up and make a day out of it for a game. There's a core of maybe 12000 who make every/most games, you're relying on marketing to get bums on seats - having a winning team helps that obviously. I've gotten three or four mates who I've been sorting out with tickets for the last season or two to shell out for season tickets of their own.

Felix - yeah I wasn't in favour of him being appointed, he's very highly rated and I think the backs have done reasonably well, but missing that extra bit needed at the highest level. It can be done though - look at Flannery, we've one of the best scrums and lineouts in Europe. Would prefer a renowned backs coach to shake things up. Or Felix head off to NZ for the summer and come back with a full notebook.

Nienaber has been the best signing for us, need to hang on to him, defence has been awesome. Next season I want to see that continue and backs move up a level.

irishbucsfan

Elisha Shallow Xerox wrote: »

Re. Felix Jones and the attack, yeah it's on him but what do you expect when you appoint a guy who's barely finished up playing to a senior coaching post with absolutely no experience or cutting his teeth? He's on a hiding to nothing.

Interestingly he went up against Stephen Jones who had a lot more experience as a player and was an assistant coach with Wasps before. So a much more traditional path, more like ROG.

bilston

errlloyd wrote: »

Btw Scarlets played scintilating rugby in the final 3 games.

But is it fair to say they were playing beautiful rugby all season?

They scored the least tries of the top 6 in the regular season - with 66. They played brilliant knockout rugby, they deserved to win their last three games. But I think the narrative that they were amazing all season is revisionism.

They've benefited from a good spring weather wise. But they've played the best rugby when it matters and did enough to stay in touch during the rest of the season.

On the face of it they are very good side.

Ken Owens, Samson Lee, John Barclay, James Davies, Gareth Davies, Rhys Pathchell, Scott Williams, Jonathan Davies, Johnny McNicholl, Liam Williams and Staff Evans are all top players. If anything they've underperformed up to now.

Obviously they have to replace Williams but if they can do that and strengthen their tight 5 they could put together a reasonable European run next season.

bilston

errlloyd wrote: »

Btw Scarlets played scintilating rugby in the final 3 games.

But is it fair to say they were playing beautiful rugby all season?

They scored the least tries of the top 6 in the regular season - with 66. They played brilliant knockout rugby, they deserved to win their last three games. But I think the narrative that they were amazing all season is revisionism.

They've benefited from a good spring weather wise. But they've played the best rugby when it matters and did enough to stay in touch during the rest of the season.

On the face of it they are very good side.

Ken Owens, Samson Lee, John Barclay, James Davies, Gareth Davies, Rhys Pathchell, Scott Williams, Jonathan Davies, Johnny McNicholl, Liam Williams and Staff Evans are all top players. If anything they've underperformed up to now.

Obviously they have to replace Williams but if they can do that and strengthen their tight 5 they could put together a reasonable European run next season.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Interestingly he went up against Stephen Jones who had a lot more experience as a player and was an assistant coach with Wasps before. So a much more traditional path, more like ROG.

Yes agree entirely, even on the playing side of things Jones has 400+ games as a pro which went from Llanelli back in the day to winning Slams and starting Lions tests. Felix wasn't playing regular rugby til nearly his mid 20s and never broke through beyond provincial level. I know he's highly respected in the Munster set up but it was a mad appointment. I don't think he's to blame here, he's been no better or worse than you could expect from him.



On leaving early - it's no more disrespectful than the reams and reams of ****e that get posted on here.

irishbucsfan

For Williams' replacement, Ryan Conbeer is supposed to be a great talent

leakyboots

Just to add to the comparison with Clermont - I don't think it's apples and apples... if you've ever been there you'll know it's a somewhat isolated city in central France with one major sport that is tied in sponsorship-wise to the tyre factory which is the economic backbone of the city for decades. The stadium only holds around 18000, not quite packing the Aviva now is it. And, crucially, the nearest competition for sporting interest they have is Lyon in the soccer a couple of hours away.

Munster, like all provinces, are competing with GAA (a religion in Cork and Kerry in particular) and Soccer for players and fanbase. Trying to get supporters from all over the province to drive up for all manner of kickoff times all year - I work within walking distance of the stadium and last season was struggling to make the Friday evening kickoffs... how can you expect Mick from Waterford to do it - take a day off for Munster v Zebre at 6.45 in mid-November? I'm sure you'd all do the same!

molloyjh

For the record I'm not talking about the leaving early crap, or Munster fans at all really. Just the media gushing that goes on, which in incredibly cringey.

errlloyd

irishbucsfan wrote: »

For Williams' replacement, Ryan Conbeer is supposed to be a great talent

They're losing DTH as well which is a shame. His try was fairly unreal!

irishbucsfan

errlloyd wrote: »

They're losing DTH as well which is a shame. His try was fairly unreal!

They are, but he isn't Welsh qualified so I suppose it'd be good if they can replace him with one of their own.

bilston

irishbucsfan wrote: »

For Williams' replacement, Ryan Conbeer is supposed to be a great talent

Welsh?

Just googled him...born in 1999...urggghhhh..

molloyjh

leakyboots wrote: »

Just to add to the comparison with Clermont - I don't think it's apples and apples... if you've ever been there you'll know it's a somewhat isolated city in central France with one major sport that is tied in sponsorship-wise to the tyre factory which is the economic backbone of the city for decades. The stadium only holds around 18000, not quite packing the Aviva now is it. And, crucially, the nearest competition for sporting interest they have is Lyon in the soccer a couple of hours away.

Munster, like all provinces, are competing with GAA (a religion in Cork and Kerry in particular) and Soccer for players and fanbase. Trying to get supporters from all over the province to drive up for all manner of kickoff times all year - I work within walking distance of the stadium and last season was struggling to make the Friday evening kickoffs... how can you expect Mick from Waterford to do it - take a day off for Munster v Zebre at 6.45 in mid-November? I'm sure you'd all do the same!

"You'd all"!? There's very few people making comments about Munster attendances etc. I think you're getting incredibly sensitive here.

As I tried to also point out after the above post I'm not in any way having a go at Munster. I'd be the first to admit that Leinster fans aren't the best on the whole. In fact I'd say we're quite similar. There's a good core group who are out and out supporters while there's a wider element who come and go a good bit. Compare that to Ulster, who have had far less success and have been fairly consistently the 3rd province for the last decade while we've both had our big days. Yet their crowd numbers have been really good, consistently. That's a good support base. Yet they never get a mention.

Buer

bilston wrote: »

Obviously they have to replace Williams but if they can do that and strengthen their tight 5 they could put together a reasonable European run next season.

Well, they're losing Williams and DTH VDM so that's two of their preferred back three players going. They're bringing in Tom Prydie who probably isn't as good as either of those but is still a decent player and will fit in well.

What I would say is that they've been incredibly lucky with injuries. They don't have huge depth in their back line and have 3 or 4 top class players there in Williams x 2 and Davies x 2 along with Evans who has had the season of his life. The fewest games started by any of those lads was 15 despite 4 of them all featuring throughout the 6N and autumn for Wales.

Gareth Davies in particular is someone that would cause them real issues if he was absent for a critcal game.

leakyboots

molloyjh wrote: »

"You'd all"!? There's very few people making comments about Munster attendances etc. I think you're getting incredibly sensitive here.

As I tried to also point out after the above post I'm not in any way having a go at Munster. I'd be the first to admit that Leinster fans aren't the best on the whole. In fact I'd say we're quite similar. There's a good core group who are out and out supporters while there's a wider element who come and go a good bit. Compare that to Ulster, who have had far less success and have been fairly consistently the 3rd province for the last decade while we've both had our big days. Yet their crowd numbers have been really good, consistently. That's a good support base. Yet they never get a mention.

Nah not sensitive at all, just offering some perspective. Most of my Munster mad friends are in their mid-30s and live in Dublin with kids, only two of were able to come down to make a single match, despite me constantly offering tickets.

You're right on the media gushing front... I think it harks back to the glory days when there was a right crusade in the early 00s to get that elusive Heineken Cup. Time has moved on a bit. It grates a small bit though when you see Gerry put the boot in about falling attendances in Thomond but nay a mention when the horseyhouse does likewise. In general I don't pay too much attention to what the likes of him or Cummiskey have to say though

swiwi_

Buer wrote: »

If someone pays to go to a match and leaves when they want to leave, that's completely fair enough. I couldn't give a fiddlers if they do and would do so myself if I had somewhere else to be.

The superiority of people thinking they're more deserving or better fans because they stay until the end is a little bit sad; they just have different situations or priorities. There's a lot more to life than rugby and pretending that you're part of a team where you don't know anyone on the field. If I was a Munster fan, I'd have no hesitation in saying I'd be moving towards the exit and getting home to my family before that final whistle.

That's grand Buer. But I do wish I certain segment of Munster supporters would leave the moral high ground with all that "Pashun" "Brave and the Faithful" "Irish by birth, Munster by the grace of God" etc malarkey that is pedaled. All fans have supporters who choose to leave matches early if their team is being whipped, their is not one set of Irish provincial fans who are inherently more loyal than others...

As an aside, a few fans have taken a dump in the Super Rugby thread recently about the defense (fair enough, outside of NZ the quality has generally been poor this season), but Munster gave a very good Cheetahs/Kings/Sunwolves impression in the weekend there...without offering anything on attack to compensate. Once again, counter-attacking ball spread quickly across the backline found acres of space out wide, this despite Munster fielding Earls, Zebo and Conway in the back 3. As for Saili, he is the odd moment of brilliance mixed in with absolute dross - terrible reads on defense and Kerry Butter on the fingers in attack.

Erik Shin

Irrelevant whataboutery

Tim Robbins

I have given up going to a lot of Rugby matches because I get irritated by people constantly asking you to get up so they can get the next round of drinks or because they need to go to the toilet and can't even wait until a break in play.

This year I went to the Champions Cup final and wasn't asked to get up once! On Saturday, I think I was probably asked at most once in each half. I sat beside two great Munster supports who gave my kids a flag and had great chat with during the game. The Munster fans slagged people not for leaving early but for getting in our way when they did. Great, someone else did it this time.

I stayed right to the end, to see Scarlets raise their trophy and do their lap just like the Munster players did.

So my conclusions, Irish and Leinster matches are the worst to go to if you get irritated by other fans breaking your view constantly and needlessly. Really wish the supporters clubs of both would do something about this. If we can encourage an atmosphere of silence for the kicker surely we can encourage fans to expect other fans.

I also think there's something special about a final no matter what the level, can be J5 or World Cup. Players give it their all and it's their special moment. If you like the sport you should like going to finals. Even if your team don't make it.

phog

WTV's Blog - Gutted but expectations for 2016/17 exceeded: Munster: 22 ? Scarlets: 46



TRK's - The Wally Ratings

The Lost Sheep

leakyboots wrote: »

Just to add to the comparison with Clermont - I don't think it's apples and apples... if you've ever been there you'll know it's a somewhat isolated city in central France with one major sport that is tied in sponsorship-wise to the tyre factory which is the economic backbone of the city for decades. The stadium only holds around 18000, not quite packing the Aviva now is it. And, crucially, the nearest competition for sporting interest they have is Lyon in the soccer a couple of hours away.

Munster, like all provinces, are competing with GAA (a religion in Cork and Kerry in particular) and Soccer for players and fanbase. Trying to get supporters from all over the province to drive up for all manner of kickoff times all year - I work within walking distance of the stadium and last season was struggling to make the Friday evening kickoffs... how can you expect Mick from Waterford to do it - take a day off for Munster v Zebre at 6.45 in mid-November? I'm sure you'd all do the same!

Its in every county not just Cork/Kerry that GAAs a religion. Remember Jack O Donoghue was first since mid 90s, and only second waterford player to play internationally.
Every province has issue of getting fans in from all over province..
But Munster have done well to try get people attending regularly even when team isnt successfull. They product offered in stadium is very good by and large.

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I have given up going to a lot of Rugby matches because I get irritated by people constantly asking you to get up so they can get the next round of drinks or because they need to go to the toilet and can't even wait until a break in play.

This year I went to the Champions Cup final and wasn't asked to get up once! On Saturday, I think I was probably asked at most once in each half. I sat beside two great Munster supports who gave my kids a flag and had great chat with during the game. The Munster fans slagged people not for leaving early but for getting in our way when they did. Great, someone else did it this time.

I stayed right to the end, to see Scarlets raise their trophy and do their lap just like the Munster players did.

So my conclusions, Irish and Leinster matches are the worst to go to if you get irritated by other fans breaking your view constantly and needlessly. Really wish the supporters clubs of both would do something about this. If we can encourage an atmosphere of silence for the kicker surely we can encourage fans to expect other fans.

I also think there's something special about a final no matter what the level, can be J5 or World Cup. Players give it their all and it's their special moment. If you like the sport you should like going to finals. Even if your team don't make it.

What would you propose supporters clubs do? Its not their role.
Finals are expensive. You cant expect many people to turn up if their team doesnt make it.

Neil3030

leakyboots wrote: »

It grates a small bit though when you see Gerry put the boot in about falling attendances in Thomond but nay a mention when the horseyhouse does likewise. In general I don't pay too much attention to what the likes of him or Cummiskey have to say though

I would have thought Thornley is one of the more consistently obsequious toward Munster fans? I wouldn't know about Cummiskey, having heard him on OTB a few times I am confident in my decision to avoid anything further he has had to say or write.

Tim Robbins wrote:

I have given up going to a lot of Rugby matches because I get irritated by people constantly asking you to get up so they can get the next round of drinks or because they need to go to the toilet and can't even wait until a break in play.

I presume it was predominantly Leinster matches you were going to where you saw this going on? I would certainly agree that there is very much an 'aperitivo' vibe at the RDS at times, as in, people using a Friday night match as a segway into their later plans for the evening.

thomond2006

I have given up going to a lot of Rugby matches because I get irritated by people constantly asking you to get up so they can get the next round of drinks or because they need to go to the toilet and can't even wait until a break in play.

IMO a good way would be to stop people entering/exiting the stands during play. There are enough stoppages to allow people to slip in/out. The problem is you're creating a point of conflict for stewards and it's probably unfair on them.

thomond2006

thomond2006 wrote: »

IMO a good way would be to stop people entering/exiting the stands during play. There are enough stoppages to allow people to slip in/out. The problem is you're creating a point of conflict for stewards and it's probably unfair on them.

I don't think you can lock people in the stand, it isn't fair on anyone, but you can close the bar which would cut this out. They obviously won't though because money.

Neil3030

thomond2006 wrote: »

IMO a good way would be to stop people entering/exiting the stands during play. There are enough stoppages to allow people to slip in/out. The problem is you're creating a point of conflict for stewards and it's probably unfair on them.

Only way to reduce it (you'll never stop it) is to do a Christy Moore on it and close the bars during the actual match. But of course, that'll never happen.

thomond2006

Elisha Shallow Xerox wrote: »

I don't think you can lock people in the stand, it isn't fair on anyone, but you can close the bar which would cut this out. They obviously won't though because money.

I would definitely close the bars 10 minutes before kickoff. I do think it's important to encourage people to get to their seats in time to build the atmosphere.

Conchir

thomond2006 wrote: »

IMO a good way would be to stop people entering/exiting the stands during play. There are enough stoppages to allow people to slip in/out. The problem is you're creating a point of conflict for stewards and it's probably unfair on them.

They do this at cricket matches (at least in big stadiums like Lord's or the Oval) and it works. However, it works for cricket as the breaks in play are regular i.e. the end of every over. Not sure it would work for rugby as, while there are certainly plenty of breaks, they're much more irregular in length and in when they occur.

The Lost Sheep

thomond2006 wrote: »

IMO a good way would be to stop people entering/exiting the stands during play. There are enough stoppages to allow people to slip in/out. The problem is you're creating a point of conflict for stewards and it's probably unfair on them.

Stewarding can be difficult enough at times, this just would make our jobs much harder and wouldnt be fair on stewards.
You wouldnt be able in any way to stop people entering/exiting during play. What breaks would you allow people go and it just creates hassle.

errlloyd

Bath close the bars before kick off at the Rec. The solution is those digusting looking 4 pint beer bags they seem to have in Barnet and Leicster.

thomond2006

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Stewarding can be difficult enough at times, this just would make our jobs much harder and wouldnt be fair on stewards.
You wouldnt be able in any way to stop people entering/exiting during play. What breaks would you allow people go and it just creates hassle.

That's tricky alright to define.

Have you any ideas?

Neil3030

The solution is in educating ourselves and our children to enjoy each other's company without needing an excessive amount of alcohol...

Yeah, f**k that, close the bars.

vienne86

thomond2006 wrote: »

I would definitely close the bars 10 minutes before kickoff. I do think it's important to encourage people to get to their seats in time to build the atmosphere.

Oh I WISH they would do this! But of course they won't. In the Aviva the problem is worse because of the proximity of the bars. But I had very few disturbances on Saturday - helped by the fact that I was in the middle of a row, so there were fewer people trying to climb over me to get out, but I was surrounded by Munster fans, most of whom didn't budge. They were great craic too. As another poster has said, I think Leinster and Ireland matches are worst.

Former Former

vienne86 wrote: »

As another poster has said, I think Leinster and Ireland matches are worst.

The RDS is fine but the games in the Aviva are pretty bad. You can't go from 15,000 one week to 45,000 the next and expect all those extra 30,000 to be hard-core fans, many of them are there for the craic and the pints and will spend a lot of the time chatting. For the extra cash it brings in, it's well worth it.

pickarooney

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I have given up going to a lot of Rugby matches because I get irritated by people constantly asking you to get up so they can get the next round of drinks or because they need to go to the toilet and can't even wait until a break in play.

This year I went to the Champions Cup final and wasn't asked to get up once! On Saturday, I think I was probably asked at most once in each half. I sat beside two great Munster supports who gave my kids a flag and had great chat with during the game. The Munster fans slagged people not for leaving early but for getting in our way when they did. Great, someone else did it this time.

I stayed right to the end, to see Scarlets raise their trophy and do their lap just like the Munster players did.

So my conclusions, Irish and Leinster matches are the worst to go to if you get irritated by other fans breaking your view constantly and needlessly. Really wish the supporters clubs of both would do something about this. If we can encourage an atmosphere of silence for the kicker surely we can encourage fans to expect other fans.

I also think there's something special about a final no matter what the level, can be J5 or World Cup. Players give it their all and it's their special moment. If you like the sport you should like going to finals. Even if your team don't make it.

Clermont fans had my head wrecked stumbling past me every two minutes to go to the bar/jacks the other day. I'd say that's a pretty small sample size though.

phog

Seated areas are always worse than terraces.

The worst night I had at a game was behind the goals in the RDS, had the misfortune of picking seats above the walkway, it was a continuous stream of people walking in & out for beer or toilet breaks.

Then if something exciting starts to happen they stop mid tracks and block the view.

The Aviva for the French game this year was bad too, I was in a corner, poor view anyway but the movement of people heading to/from the bars took from my enjoyment of the game.

The Lost Sheep

thomond2006 wrote: »

That's tricky alright to define.

Have you any ideas?

Nothing as you cant/wont close the bars as that just causes issues at other times. Do you go to have sections where people who dont want to drink be unaffected by people moving and getting in their way as they go to from seat for drinks??
No idea tbh

pickarooney

Seat service?

GrainneArd

thought it was really interesting listening to Jackman on Against the Head last night. He showed as clear as daylight a lateral line of offence by Munster, which in this day and age is easily defended against, versus a two pronged Scarlets offence, where the front two drew the cover and the back two were allowed the freedom to do damage. I don't think its anything new what Scarlets did but it certainly said little for Munster's attacking strategy

phog

GrainneArd wrote: »

thought it was really interesting listening to Jackman on Against the Head last night. He showed as clear as daylight a lateral line of offence by Munster, which in this day and age is easily defended against, versus a two pronged Scarlets offence, where the front two drew the cover and the back two were allowed the freedom to do damage. I don't think its anything new what Scarlets did but it certainly said little for Munster's attacking strategy

If it's so easy to defend against, why did we top the league and get a CC semi final.

I wonder did Jackman predict the loss before last weekend?

Most pundits had us as favorites.
Very easy to be wise after the event

GrainneArd

phog wrote: »

If it's so easy to defend against, why did we top the league and get a CC semi final.

I wonder did Jackman predict the loss before last weekend?

Most pundits had us as favorites.
Very easy to be wise after the event

A lateral line means the back three never get any space to attack. Instead it has to be a forward push all the time. And Munster have the men for this which brought the province so far this year. Against the best of the pro12 or champions cup the back three were irrelevant. But such a gameplan can only go so far. That is all I suggest.

molloyjh

phog wrote: »

If it's so easy to defend against, why did we top the league and get a CC semi final.

I wonder did Jackman predict the loss before last weekend?

Most pundits had us as favorites.
Very easy to be wise after the event

Was his analysis accurate? There's little point in getting pissed off about it if so. Teams can easily win games with a poor offensive plan if they get on top up front enough. So winning games in and of itself doesn't disprove what Jackman was saying. Look at Leinster in 13-14. Played poor rugby but still won the league. In 14-15 we played even worse and were millimetres from a European final. People pointed to these things to claim there weren't any issues when there clearly were issues.

irishbucsfan

If an actual attack coach does do some analysis on it I'll be interested in seeing it. But I'd be much more interested in seeing it from a game where Munster were in touch of the lead.

Tim Robbins

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

What would you propose supporters clubs do? Its not their role.

Of course they could do something.
It's annoys the cr*p out of real supporters. The problem with a lot of people at Rugby matches they are there because it's an excuse to meet friends and have a few beers. Nothing wrong with that but they could do it in a way that doesn't detract other people's right to watch the match.

awec

Yea Munster need to figure out what to do with their backs other than have them chase after kicks all day long. An attack coach would make a huge difference down there, the talent is there but the ideas aren't.

leakyboots

We're not devoid of ideas totally, we're capable of scoring great tries (it just usually happens in broken play a la Ospreys). It's when the pressure is on from the opposition we don't have the skills a la Connacht/Scarlets/Wasps to unlock defences with good back play. We've got the best wing at the moment in the country in Earls, Zebo is proven international quality and Conway is in the form of his life. We should be making hay with these guys, instead Earls is getting stationary ball and having to try create something out of nothing and the other two are chasing high balls (Conway really punches above his weight in this regard, superb in the air, as is Zebo as we know). But I always hate seeing a kicking strategy relying on guys regathering 50/50 balls

The Lost Sheep

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Of course they could do something.
It's annoys the cr*p out of real supporters. The problem with a lot of people at Rugby matches they are there because it's an excuse to meet friends and have a few beers. Nothing wrong with that but they could do it in a way that doesn't detract other people's right to watch the match.

What is the something that supporters clubs or anyone else could do?
And wtf is a real supporter anyway.

leakyboots wrote: »

We're not devoid of ideas totally, we're capable of scoring great tries (it just usually happens in broken play a la Ospreys). It's when the pressure is on from the opposition we don't have the skills a la Connacht/Scarlets/Wasps to unlock defences with good back play. We've got the best wing at the moment in the country in Earls, Zebo is proven international quality and Conway is in the form of his life. We should be making hay with these guys, instead Earls is getting stationary ball and having to try create something out of nothing and the other two are chasing high balls (Conway really punches above his weight in this regard, superb in the air, as is Zebo as we know). But I always hate seeing a kicking strategy relying on guys regathering 50/50 balls

Munster are fairly devoid of ideas in terms of phase play and set piece play which is terrible considering the strength of the set piece by and large. But when back play is terrible at all levels in Munster its not surprising.
How do Munster get to place where Earls, Zebo etc can make hay?

I think it's been clear enough this season that Munster are capable of playing some fine rugby (that try against the Ospreys was a peach) but certainly do struggle when they can't overpower the opposition, as happened against Leinster, Leicester, Saracens, Scarlets. The attack needs to evolve a bit, I think the personnel are there with everyone in the backline being decent on the ball, Tyler/Scannell give good distribution options, but the gameplan still seems to be based a lot around kick chase which isn't going to cut it at the business end of things. Even against Scarlets when a load of points down Munster were kicking the ball away looking for territory, it made no sense, and possibly suggests there's an issue with playing off the cuff.

Buer

Elisha Shallow Xerox wrote: »

Tyler/Scannell give good distribution options

I think Scannell is something of an elephant in the room at this point. Since the end of the ECC pool stages, his performances have been way down. He was unlucky not to be capped in the autumn and then was the 24th man in the 6N opening game.

Since then his level of performance has me thinking he'll have a fight to keep the 12 jersey ahead of JJH for Munster let alone feature for Ireland too much next season.