cheaper to grow or buy bales

kerry cow

Is it cheaper to
Rent land at 200 ac , spread fert , 3 cut bales system, pay to cut , rake , bale , + plastic and haul 3 miles on average .
Or
buy bales at 25 each . Delivered
Talking about 5000 bales .
Friend of mine had this discussion last evening .

Neddyusa

kerry cow wrote: »

Is it cheaper to
Rent land at 200 ac , spread fert , 3 cut bales system, pay to cut , rake , bale , + plastic and haul 3 miles on average .
Or
buy bales at 25 each .
Talking about 5000 bales .

Cheaper to buy - provided you know the DMD - and much less time & hastle!
Costs approx €20 to make a 72DMD bale on your own land

If you need the land for Nitrates anway; renting might make sense at that money

Timmaay

I'd be alot more worried about whats going to eat them 5000bales, and how yours going to make a profit on them animals afterwards ha.

freedominacup

kerry cow wrote: »

Is it cheaper to
Rent land at 200 ac , spread fert , 3 cut bales system, pay to cut , rake , bale , + plastic and haul 3 miles on average .
Or
buy bales at 25 each . Delivered
Talking about 5000 bales .
Friend of mine had this discussion last evening .

I doubt if €125000 spent on buying bales would be money well spent. You would have 200+ acres of wholecrop bought and pitted for the same money. Well north of 120 acres of maize either. Depends on if these were available locally.

kerry cow

It not me but a pal in the rich lands of county cork .
Milking 500 mo mo' s

At moment he is renting 200 ac , cut 3 times with spfh and pitted.

IH784man

I think you'd stop at baling at 500 bales at move to pit silage As it will be cheaper never mind 5000 bales

kerry cow

Is it all bale at the green field site or pit ?

Bass Reeves

There is no way you will source 5K round bales of even average quality (70ish DMD) from lads that cut it. No farmers making good quality bales will sell at that money. There are some lads (mostly contractors)making goodish bales for sale but few and far between.

IMO your pal is leaving himself very exposed if he is bringing that amount of forage from rented land. It is not an ideal business situation.

200 acres at 200/acre( cheap in the context of cork) 40K

200 acres cut 3 times and pitted 60K

Fertlizer 200/acre another 40K

Pit silage is costing him in the region of 140K or 280/cow The only real advantage of bales is you have a load P&K coming in the bales. However poor quality bales will not have as much P&K as good quality silage

Mooooo

Bass Reeves wrote: »

There is no way you will source 5K round bales of even average quality (70ish DMD) from lads that cut it. No farmers making good quality bales will sell at that money. There are some lads (mostly contractors)making goodish bales for sale but few and far between.

IMO your pal is leaving himself very exposed if he is bringing that amount of forage from rented land. It is not an ideal business situation.

200 acres at 200/acre( cheap in the context of cork) 40K

200 acres cut 3 times and pitted 60K

Fertlizer 200/acre another 40K

Pit silage is costing him in the region of 140K or 280/cow The only real advantage of bales is you have a load P&K coming in the bales. However poor quality bales will not have as much P&K as good quality silage

He could compare to other feeds too, or a combination. 140k would get close on 150 acres of maize. Is he all spring? If block all around parlour used for cows he is likely buffer feeding in spring and autumn maize may be a good buffer instead of silage seeing as he is essentially buying it anyway.

kerry cow

Ya he grows 80 acres of maize for buffer .

JJayoo

Just trying to imagine 5000 bales

Mooooo

No doubt he knows what he's at if at that scale and gone thru the last number of ups and downs over the years. depending on the ground he has for silage it may well be used at the shoulders for heifers as well as the cuts of silage

Mooooo

JJayoo wrote: »

Just trying to imagine 5000 bales

I was cursing the year I made 300 saying why didn't I fire the most of it on to the pit.

K.G.

i hope he is already feeding at least a ton of ration per cow.anyone buying a high percentage of feed is better buying it as concentrate than silage at current prices

BnB

The OP there mentioned €25 per bale - Delivered to the yard.

What do lads think of that price. Would you pay more for well packed dry bales ?

The part time boy

kerry cow wrote: »

Is it cheaper to
Rent land at 200 ac , spread fert , 3 cut bales system, pay to cut , rake , bale , + plastic and haul 3 miles on average .
Or
buy bales at 25 each . Delivered
Talking about 5000 bales .
Friend of mine had this discussion last evening .

Defo cheaper to buy bails vs make BUT

people call round bails lucky bags for a reson . You no idea what your buying until there open . I purchased a good few bails over the years for different reasons 80 % the bails were good. But it still 20% were poor.

But the biggest problem is there no hope he find 5000 bails to buy . 500 maybe but not 5000.

Ps. Also in people costings they don't seem to be adding own labour .

pms7

kerry cow wrote: »

Is it cheaper to
Rent land at 200 ac , spread fert , 3 cut bales system, pay to cut , rake , bale , + plastic and haul 3 miles on average .
Or
buy bales at 25 each . Delivered
Talking about 5000 bales .
Friend of mine had this discussion last evening .

Depends on silage yield on rented ground. Just had look at my rented silage ground, disgusted at low yield of grass on it. Going to pit, but just for easy comparison, I converted it to bales,reckon costing me approx €35 bale. So cheaper to buy at that! Big difference between the two is security of supply, you know you have the silage with ground, depending on looking for bales for sale every year if buying bales.
I won't be continuing with that field though!

alps

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Pit silage is costing him in the region of 140K or 280/cow The only real advantage of bales is you have a load P&K coming in the bales. However poor quality bales will not have as much P&K as good quality silage

Brings home the real cost of dairying when full costs are included...

And look again...the above will only feed the cows for half the winter...

Who2

kerry cow wrote: »

It not me but a pal in the rich lands of county cork .
Milking 500 mo mo' s

At moment he is renting 200 ac , cut 3 times with spfh and pitted.

Would he be wiser asking himself, should I be milking 500 cows? He could more than likely trim back on rented ground, trim back on labour and just work with what he has efficiently.

kerry cow

He has 380 acre grazing block owned and also 30 acres of maize land owned .all rest is rented .
Might be better to milk 280 cows and followers and stop renting .

Muckit

But surr that sort of defeatist sh1te talk will do nothing for his ego!!! I say rock on... 1000 is in the sights!!

Timmaay

Muckit wrote: »

But surr that sort of defeatist sh1te talk will do nothing for his ego!!! I say rock on... 1000 is in the sights!!

Was that the Kingstons aim lol?

kerry cow

We all know what happens when you get too big for your boots !!
There a quite a few cork boy's up to their necks .

It would amaze you all the really big guys that have done deals for this and that and have pay arrangements over a number of years when you and I have to pay up on the day

_Brian

JJayoo wrote: »

Just trying to imagine 5000 bales

Some pile of wraps and net afterwards :eek:

Buying 5000 lucky dips is a huge risk..

Keepgrowing

kerry cow wrote: »

We all know what happens when you get too big for your boots !!
There a quite a few cork boy's up to their necks .

It would amaze you all the really big guys that have done deals for this and that and have pay arrangements over a number of years when you and I have to pay up on the day

What kind of stuff would they be buying with those arrangements?

kerry cow

I think keep growing might know more than you let on !!!

alot of guys find themselves pictured in the papers , demo days and pioneer leaders in the agricultural circle but behind the scenes , there are, certain suppliers of farm hard ware that support them with easi pay arrangements over many years , and yet they are the poster boys we aspire to be .
All is not what it sometimes seems ,
Moral of the story is
Far away hills are green .

.

Tis rushes I see each day .
It's a sprayer I need and a Indian summer to complete the round .

Timmaay

Kerry cow your just completely trolling us with this thread?

davidk1394

Selling silage here. Each bale is 860 kgs and around 72 DMD. Grass is 2 years old. They'll be delivered into the yard which is around 10 miles away. I'm looking for €28 for them. What would ye think ?

Muckit

I would think that very reasonable.

davidk1394

Muckit wrote: »

I would think that very reasonable.

So was I. It's top notch stuff and your man was onto me last January if we're selling grass this year as he was very impressed with last years stuff. What would ye be thinking? I didn't say a price yet

C0N0R

davidk1394 wrote: »

Selling silage here. Each bale is 860 kgs and around 72 DMD. Grass is 2 years old. They'll be delivered into the yard which is around 10 miles away. I'm looking for €28 for them. What would ye think ?

What would you estimate dry matter at? How many bales to the acre are you getting?

kerry cow

Land 200
Fert 150 to 200
Total 350.

cut, bale , wrap and stack €12
Plastic and net €3
Total hire and plastic € 15

3 cut equals say 25 bales ac

350 ÷ 25 bales== €14
Plus hire charge and plastic € 15


Total 29 per bale

darragh_haven

davidk1394 wrote: »

Selling silage here. Each bale is 860 kgs and around 72 DMD. Grass is 2 years old. They'll be delivered into the yard which is around 10 miles away. I'm looking for €28 for them. What would ye think ?

Bales sold here for the last 6 or 7 years. €30 a bale, usually 74 to 78 dmd. DM is consistently excess of 30%. Repeat customers, collect from our yard throughout the winter as they need them. We mow, bale and store bales. Bales not stacked.

cacs

Bass Reeves wrote: »

There is no way you will source 5K round bales of even average quality (70ish DMD) from lads that cut it. No farmers making good quality bales will sell at that money. There are some lads (mostly contractors)making goodish bales for sale but few and far between.

IMO your pal is leaving himself very exposed if he is bringing that amount of forage from rented land. It is not an ideal business situation.

200 acres at 200/acre( cheap in the context of cork) 40K

200 acres cut 3 times and pitted 60K

Fertlizer 200/acre another 40K

Pit silage is costing him in the region of 140K or 280/cow The only real advantage of bales is you have a load P&K coming in the bales. However poor quality bales will not have as much P&K as good quality silage

I just made bales today. I have to say the best quality ones yet. But between slurry fertiliser and wrapping the cost €23

Signpost

Not sure about buying 5000 bales but I know first hand of a big enough farmer nearby who has gone away from precision chop due to waste, being chopped too small, having to have it all ready together and needing a crop rather than quality to justify it. Makes around 6000 bales per year, this year he had 7 dump trailers of waste in total. Contractor does everything including supplying plastic for a price per bale and he swears he will never again go back to the pit, even though he his opening over 30 bales a day. Pulls out fields as they are ready to be done and contractor is happy as not all being done in one hit, definately working for him and same fella wouldn't be doing anything unless it was cost effective.

mahoney_j

Signpost wrote: »

Not sure about buying 5000 bales but I know first hand of a big enough farmer nearby who has gone away from precision chop due to waste, being chopped too small, having to have it all ready together and needing a crop rather than quality to justify it. Makes around 6000 bales per year, this year he had 7 dump trailers of waste in total. Contractor does everything including supplying plastic for a price per bale and he swears he will never again go back to the pit, even though he his opening over 30 bales a day. Pulls out fields as they are ready to be done and contractor is happy as not all being done in one hit, definately working for him and same fella wouldn't be doing anything unless it was cost effective.

Fully gone from pit here too and won't be returning ,cows love bales and it's cheaper make hi quality hi dm silage in one .i mow ,Ted draw in and stack and supply plastic .i cut as and when I choose throughout the summer ,contractor gets cheque once a month in June July and August and bill setteled in October or whenever he wants it ,I phone him every Sunday night to inform him of my plan for week ahead ,grub and cold cider laid on too !!!

The part time boy

I gave up pit sillage about 7 or 8 years ago. Used to make 600 bails . I know lot smaller .

The advantages were no waste , and able to close off sillage in fields instead of all in one bang

There was a awful lot of work in it though . I used to ted , draw bails to corner of field to be wrapped . Draw bails into yard . I worked out I was handling each bail 4 times

cacs

Signpost wrote: »

Not sure about buying 5000 bales but I know first hand of a big enough farmer nearby who has gone away from precision chop due to waste, being chopped too small, having to have it all ready together and needing a crop rather than quality to justify it. Makes around 6000 bales per year, this year he had 7 dump trailers of waste in total. Contractor does everything including supplying plastic for a price per bale and he swears he will never again go back to the pit, even though he his opening over 30 bales a day. Pulls out fields as they are ready to be done and contractor is happy as not all being done in one hit, definately working for him and same fella wouldn't be doing anything unless it was cost effective.

The great thing about doing your own is you contol the quality. I would image thats next or near impossible with bought in stuff. Some of the people i see selling bales i wouldn't feed them to horses

K.G.

Related to question but not quiet on topic,what prices are different straights at the moment and how do they compare to bought in bales at say 25 euro

st1979

cathal irwin wrote:

The great thing about doing your own is you contol the quality. I would image thats next or near impossible with bought in stuff. Some of the people i see selling bales i wouldn't feed them to horses

If bales were cheap enough does it matter. Use them as roughage and give meal with dry cow minerals depending on cow condition.
Not saying 25 is cheap enough just thinking out loud. Obviously if it's poorly wrapped or ragworth that's different.
Or what about hay and meal or straw and meal for dry cow period. At least straw would be a fairly consistent material.
If you can get good straw for 10 a Bale. During summer. How much meal would you need to supplement to keep a dairy dry cow and what would straw usage be. Would that be better during the 60 day dry period. And keep whatever surplus grass you have as top quality bales for milking period.

The part time boy

Don't think you get straw for 10 euro not around here anyway

kerry cow

I suppose there should be more debate about alot of dairy farms now as to whether you stock out the grazing block to the max and rent ground for small stock and silage or adjust your stock levels to suit your owned land .

farisfat

mahoney_j wrote: »

Fully gone from pit here too and won't be returning ,cows love bales and it's cheaper make hi quality hi dm silage in one .i mow ,Ted draw in and stack and supply plastic .i cut as and when I choose throughout the summer ,contractor gets cheque once a month in June July and August and bill setteled in October or whenever he wants it ,I phone him every Sunday night to inform him of my plan for week ahead ,grub and cold cider laid on too !!!

what set up have you got for drawing the bales in and is the draw far.It's the only reason i don't go all bales.

Bass Reeves

It was interesting I passed a p!ace yesterday. It was old meadows. Today I passed it again and I was cut gathered and I imagine in a pit. Locally we got 30mm of rain last night. This is the biggest​ disadvantage of pit silage v bales. This silage would have gone into the pit of a larger operator. There is little hope of smaller operation having any control of there silage operations unless they opt for bales.

Reggie.

mahoney_j wrote: »

Fully gone from pit here too and won't be returning ,cows love bales and it's cheaper make hi quality hi dm silage in one .i mow ,Ted draw in and stack and supply plastic .i cut as and when I choose throughout the summer ,contractor gets cheque once a month in June July and August and bill setteled in October or whenever he wants it ,I phone him every Sunday night to inform him of my plan for week ahead ,grub and cold cider laid on too !!!

Need any work done

kerry cow

The new keltec 10 bale double axle bale handlers are ment to be the job especially if you have a little tractor in the field rowing them up into two rows of 5's . In he comes picks and gone .
In the yard , drops and gone .
No pricking with trailers and loaders

Who2

Reggie. wrote: »

Need any work done

I d say he wouldn't let a landini around the place .

whelan2

Everytime I read this thread title I imagine bales growing in the fields !

darragh_haven

kerry cow wrote: »

The new keltec 10 bale double axle bale handlers are ment to be the job especially if you have a little tractor in the field rowing them up into two rows of 5's . In he comes picks and gone .
In the yard , drops and gone .
No pricking with trailers and loaders

Can they pick up 5 bales on one side without tipping to the side.

invicta

I suppose if they were aligned up perfectly.ie Two rows of five,at the correct spacing,it could be done,however that's a lot of variables!

Reggie.

Who2 wrote: »

I d say he wouldn't let a landini around the place .