Marathon Improvers Thread.

Laineyfrecks

Loving all the new shoes in here, think I am going to stick with my Alphas for the marathon. I need to clear a few in my rotation before I think of buying a new pair, but some of the new runners look amazing!

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119649344#Comment_119649344

If I underestimate the calories in scoops of tailwind then that certainly explains why I struggle so much to take them.

Previously I would started with the bottle of tailwind water and also carried extra tailwind in little travel bottles that I could dump into fresh 250ml water bottles from the stations. But my last 2 marathons when it came to using those extra bottles I just couldn't do it, the thought of it just turned my stomach and they finished the race in my pockets.

Its a common theme for me, I will be flying along and feeling good and then it will come to the time where the lore says I need to take something, 80 mins into a run for example. So I take something and then for whatever reason I start to feel worse, like I have interrupted my rhythm and just can't get it back. I use tailwind because it seems to affect me least, and I do believe it has a beneficial effect, whereas I never could take gels at all.

As a random aside, I frequently do my long runs just carrying a 750ml bottle of water which I would refill at a local GAA club late in the run, so I'd have 1.5l of water over a 21 mile run. Mostly just water, sometimes with the 3 scoops of tailwind. A few times recently I wore a 2L camelbak because I did the 21 miles up in the hills instead. And logically I would have expected to drink at least 1.5L out of the bladder during the run.

Nope, for whatever reason I drink less each time, only around 1L.

I can only imagine it is because I drink whatever is there when the bottle in my hand, but with the camelbak its just a tube so I am only drinking when my body decides it wants to. Its a mental thing and I find it very interesting.

Kellygirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119652788#Comment_119652788

I wonder should you be practising your fuelling more in long runs so maybe? I’ve been putting 4 scoops of tailwind into 1litre of water for my last few long runs which have been 21/22 miles. I sip every mile and find my energy stays pretty steady from start to finish.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119652826#Comment_119652826

But my energy is fine really, especially before I take anything. And afterwards its not that I conk or anything, I just feel sort of queasy for a while. And since I was only taking that drink/jelly because I thought I needed to, it got me thinking about why I was doing it at all.

I guess I have to note that I've been doing those sorts of runs for around 7/8 years now so had a chance to practise with various things, I have done the races with nutrition every 30 mins, clif bloks etc etc. Thats probably why I feel able to give a more stripped down approach a try now, if I crash and burn it won't be the end of the world.

Unthought Known

Is it possible you're taking on too much water? When I used tailwind a few years back I held the powder in straws and mixed with a 250ml bottle every 3 miles or so. Tried that twice and both times I literally couldn't stomach anything by mile 18.

On the other hand I've used tailwind for a couple of ultras and had no issues, probably because they're generally a slower, more relaxed, race so I don't stress too much about everything having to be perfectly timed.

Now I pay more attention to hydration in the week leading up to a marathon, use Maurten gels and only have 2-3 sips of water at each water station.

GoHardOrGoHome

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119651711#Comment_119651711

Orange is guaranteed 7% faster than regular colours.

event

Disaster this morning.

Went out for a 22m LSR. 10 miles in I feel a niggle in my ankle. By mile 15 it's agony. Basically hobbled and limped the 7 miles home. Zero pain now really so I think it was the runners. I have the endorphin speeds and I mentioned before they were sore on me at high mileage. Going to go back to my Asics GTs as the marathon shoe, had planned on the endorphins helping me along so that's a spanner in the works.

Hopefully it was that and not an actual injury. Pretty pissed off now tbh

Wottle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119658796#Comment_119658796

At least you know the shoe doesn't suit you and better to know now.

I would have cut my losses if in pain/discomfort, a 1 or a 2 out of 10 is fine but anything else is just risking standing on the start line.

5 more weeks will give you 2 more solid long runs to work off.

Wottle

With 3 weeks left to Amsterdam, I think I had my best long run to date. Had to do it solo as well, which made it feel tougher.

20 miles with 8x1.5 miles at marathon effort (paid attention to heart rate as the main indicator).

Very undulating route and the last 2 efforts were up towards Spawell and Firhouse road, character building!

Really looking forward to freshening up. Next week is 15/16 miles with a few MP efforts. I'll definitely do these on the flat to get a better idea of pace, given Amsterdam is flat. Also can't wait to try my new Vaporflies. The pair I used today now have 340 miles.

https://strava.app.link/NIjs7xT6ztb

Kellygirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119658796#Comment_119658796

Oh no …. My ankles have been at me the last few weeks when I wear some of the super shoes …. Wore my ASICS Gliderides this morning for my long and my ankles are perfect so you could be right it’s the shoe. Nice comfy ones for the week and you’ll be fine for next weekend all going well.

Kellygirl

I’d my long run this morning and wore the new Decathlon belt with 3x250ml bottles of tailwind, plus keys and phone! I’m so impressed. I felt like an eegit when I stuck all the bottle in and felt I looked like I’d a swimming ring round my hips but it didn’t budge at all and the weight didn’t bother me and sure I couldn’t see it once I was moving!! I’m thrilled with it so thanks for the recommendation. I reckon I’ll most likely use that for Dublin rather than the back pack now. That was comfortable too with the bottles on the front but my fear was if it rains that the extra material on the back would get really heavy.

Lazare also recommend The Running Explained podcast and I listened to Series 2 episode 27 and 28 about strength work for runners and the taper (wishful thinking there). Well worth a listen. I do a lot of strength work anyway and everything I ever wondered was covered in the episode.

Unknownability

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119653150#Comment_119653150

Don't know if I'm a fan, can see them being sent back within the 30 day trial period.

Kellygirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119659013#Comment_119659013

Why, out of interest? I was wondering whether to do the same or whether to get used to them over time. I got them for €112 so tempted to try get used to them … cheaper than all my regular runners!

marathon2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119658796#Comment_119658796

As someone pointed out, 3 weeks and a taper to go so no worries taking a day or two. Dropping a session wont matter, just don't try to make up for it later. Good luck and hope your right and you get back on the horse soon.

Unknownability

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119659029#Comment_119659029

I'm just not mad on the colours. Runners themselves are fine.

How did you manage to get them that cheap?

Kellygirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119660157#Comment_119660157

Ah ok. The Nike app had them for €149 I think it was a few weeks ago and then did a 25% if you bought two items, even a pair of socks, so the Alphas worked out at €112!

Unknownability

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119660289#Comment_119660289

Wow, what a bargain!

Didn't mind paying full price as I was expecting to send them back after the marathon.

bucketybuck

I won't be switching up my shoes at this stage, but for those who have the super shoes I'm curious what you are expecting to gain from them time wise? Are they worth 5 minutes off a marathon time? 10 minutes?

I always thought that for me personally getting those shoes would be like putting fancy tyres on a clapped out motor, added to which a lad in a store told me that they were better suited for shorter races where the runner is pushing harder, to get max benefit from the spring. But if they were worth 5 mins to an average runner like me I would take that no question.

Unknownability

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119660315#Comment_119660315

It's hard to quantify a time over all.

Twi things, when I'm running a PMP using the super shoes my HR would be 7-10 beats lower for the same pace uisng normal shoes.

Recovery is twice as fast when running in the super shoes.

Kellygirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119660315#Comment_119660315

I’ll be honest that I don’t know about the extra time they would give me but when I wear them I feel it’s easier to run faster as they have a kind of bounce effect. However that is coming at a cost as I’m not used to the squishyness of them and normally wear a firmer shoe so I’ll possibly keep them for shorter races for now and not take the risk at marathon distance. I might change my mind yet though. I had heard that recovery after was better after wearing them but that’s not the case for me as my I’m clearly working different muscles to usual … I roll in or over pronate so am used to wearing a stability shoe too. I wore the alphas for my long run last week which had a fair bit of speed work in it. My last 6Km was a cool down but running slow in them was awful and I had to pick up the pace which felt much better again.

FinnC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119660313#Comment_119660313

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119660157#Comment_119660157

I have the feeling kellygirl is talking about the Alphaflys 1 and you are talking about the Alphaflys 2.? I seriously doubt the Alphaflys 2 could be for for that low price this early in their release.

Kellygirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119660403#Comment_119660403

Oh I’m not sure actually? These ones.

FinnC

Yeah those are the Alphaflys 1. Pretty sure the orange pair that was shown are the 2.

Kellygirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119660439#Comment_119660439

Yes, just looking at the app now. You are right. No wonder I got such a good deal!

marathon2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119660454#Comment_119660454

I have a pair, absolutely fantastic shoe to run in. My favorite

Unknownability

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119660439#Comment_119660439

Yep, the pair I have are #2.

Only available in that orange colour, biggest difference I've noticed so far is the extra cushioning around the ankle area.

@Kellygirl you're 100% correct the shoes are no way designed to run slowly, they are uncomfortable at slow paces.

Bgiraffe

Coming from a slightly different angle, I wore NB Fuelcells for a 21 miler last weekend and felt rough afterwards (aggravated existing groin problem and fresh calf tweak). Took an extra day off and got back at it this week. Did this week's 21 miler in alphaflys and absolutely no probs.

Managing an ongoing groin problem and I'm at the point where I think I'm going to do majority of stuff in alphafly for remainder of DCM training.

Speedwise then, anything that leaves you less tired/sore/fatigued will naturally save you time. A big alphafly fan here, just the cost of them is a killer. I got mine in Black Friday sale last yr, 150.

Unknownability

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119660683#Comment_119660683

Buy a pair every 28 days and send them back 😉.

Sussex18

Hi I'm wondering if it would be normal to do the first mile or two in a marathon slower, even if going for a time? Given that one needs to warm up and going a bit too fast too early can put one on the back foot from the start. Would it be better to ease my way in and hopefully develope 'a pace' thereafter?

In two minds as to whether to just take it easy or go for a time. I'd like to push a little bit for a time but maybe not from the start. Doing Galway in a few days, which has no pacers.

Murph_D

Yes, I’d say the first mile should always be the slowest. Staying out of trouble til you find your place in the field when the congestion settles. With any marathon, your goal is to get to mile 20 in good shape. If you’re still in with a shout of your goal time by then, you’re still in the game. That almost always means a conservative (within reason) start. If you’re having a good day, the first 8 miles or so should feel very comfortable.