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RDS

  • 20-05-2017 11:17am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,168 ✭✭✭ roadmaster


    I wouldnt be a major Rugby fan but I was wondering instead of Leinster Rugby redeveloping the RDS just with two partners instead has there being any consideration bringing Dublin GAA in on a ground share to the RDS I am sure the horse show could be designed in to the ground and the rugby/gaa could manage as dublin would only really need it for the league. Otherwise Dublin will eventually build a second stadium themselfs instead of everyone getting together and bring practical


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Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,138 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Zzippy


    A GAA pitch is 130-145m long, and 80-90m wide. A championship pitch would be 145m. A rugby pitch is 120m max including in-goal areas, and 70m wide. Unless you have movable stands it would be unworkable, regardless of whether a GAA pitch would even fit into the footprint available between existing buidlings.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,168 ✭✭✭ roadmaster


    Zzippy wrote: »
    A GAA pitch is 130-145m long, and 80-90m wide. A championship pitch would be 145m. A rugby pitch is 120m max including in-goal areas, and 70m wide. Unless you have movable stands it would be unworkable, regardless of whether a GAA pitch would even fit into the footprint available between existing buidlings.

    You don't have to have Croke park size pitchs for games as there are plenty of county grounds that have way smaller pitches. Besides if pitch size is an issue we may forget about the WRC bid


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,138 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Zzippy


    roadmaster wrote: »
    You don't have to have Croke park size pitchs for games as there are plenty of county grounds that have way smaller pitches. Besides if pitch size is an issue we may forget about the WRC bid

    For hurling you really do need the larger pitch. Even the smaller county grounds are rarely below 137m long and 85m wide. Why would pitch size be an issue for the RWC? All the GAA grounds pencilled in will easily fit a rugby pitch. If it was the other way round we'd have problems. The RDS has a lot of existing infrastructure that must be borne in mind when designing a new stadium. If you design it to fit a GAA pitch then the stands will be a long way back from the pitch for rugby games.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,461 ✭✭✭ Ronan Raver77


    The county board have bought the Spawell in Templeogue now..Two different stories floating around. 1. Stadium for 10-20,000 people. 2. Training and Development Centre for all of the Dublin Football and Hurling teams Adult and Development ages. So no point trying to do a deal with the RDS (money is spent). I get what you are saying and even at a smaller scale I think why GAA and Rugby clubs come together on Projects and share resources and finances instead of going alone to the brink of owing the banks millions!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,168 ✭✭✭ roadmaster


    i dont know i just think its crazy going developing another two separate stadiums when one 25/30 k size one could be built that would suit all and not be wasting money because no matter what happens somehow probably via the national lottery public funds will be used


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭ The Lost Sheep


    roadmaster wrote: »
    I wouldnt be a major Rugby fan but I was wondering instead of Leinster Rugby redeveloping the RDS just with two partners instead has there being any consideration bringing Dublin GAA in on a ground share to the RDS I am sure the horse show could be designed in to the ground and the rugby/gaa could manage as dublin would only really need it for the league. Otherwise Dublin will eventually build a second stadium themselfs instead of everyone getting together and bring practical
    I dont think its needed. Horse Show wouldnt want too much going on in summer and having all share may seem to be more practical on paper but i dont think a GAA pitch would fit in the RDS.
    Zzippy wrote: »
    A GAA pitch is 130-145m long, and 80-90m wide. A championship pitch would be 145m. A rugby pitch is 120m max including in-goal areas, and 70m wide. Unless you have movable stands it would be unworkable, regardless of whether a GAA pitch would even fit into the footprint available between existing buidlings.
    A rugby pitch can be 140 metres long if the dead ball is extended to its fullest(they can be 22m long at each end)
    The county board have bought the Spawell in Templeogue now..Two different stories floating around. 1. Stadium for 10-20,000 people. 2. Training and Development Centre for all of the Dublin Football and Hurling teams Adult and Development ages. So no point trying to do a deal with the RDS (money is spent). I get what you are saying and even at a smaller scale I think why GAA and Rugby clubs come together on Projects and share resources and finances instead of going alone to the brink of owing the banks millions!!
    In plenty of areas clubs do get together but very hard to get clubs to work together like this in most cases


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,479 ✭✭✭✭ CIARAN_BOYLE


    roadmaster wrote: »
    I wouldnt be a major Rugby fan but I was wondering instead of Leinster Rugby redeveloping the RDS just with two partners instead has there being any consideration bringing Dublin GAA in on a ground share to the RDS I am sure the horse show could be designed in to the ground and the rugby/gaa could manage as dublin would only really need it for the league. Otherwise Dublin will eventually build a second stadium themselfs instead of everyone getting together and bring practical

    Rds is a redevelopment, the grandstand and the Anglesey are too close together to fit a gaa pitch width.

    Parts of the anglesey is a protected structure which must be maintained. Therefore the pitch can't be widened to fit gaa unless you demolish the grandstand which isn't going to be touched at the moment.

    Making the ground suitable for gaa is only an extra expense.


  • Registered Users Posts: 780 Kirk Van Houten


    roadmaster wrote: »
    I wouldnt be a major Rugby fan but I was wondering instead of Leinster Rugby redeveloping the RDS just with two partners instead has there being any consideration bringing Dublin GAA in on a ground share to the RDS I am sure the horse show could be designed in to the ground and the rugby/gaa could manage as dublin would only really need it for the league. Otherwise Dublin will eventually build a second stadium themselfs instead of everyone getting together and bring practical

    Just for clarification its not Leinster Rugby redeveloping the RDS, they are a tenant and it is the RDS themselves that will fund and complete the development.

    Leinster rugby will receive the benefit of the redevelopment and presumably have to pay increased rent and sign a longer contract to continue playing there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,168 ✭✭✭ roadmaster


    Just for clarification its not Leinster Rugby redeveloping the RDS, they are a tenant and it is the RDS themselves that will fund and complete the development.

    Leinster rugby will receive the benefit of the redevelopment and presumably have to pay increased rent and sign a longer contract to continue playing there.

    Ah I taught Leinster where going in partnership with the RDS on costs, so will they just sign a 10 year lease or so?


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,978 irishbucsfan


    roadmaster wrote: »
    Ah I taught Leinster where going in partnership with the RDS on costs, so will they just sign a 10 year lease or so?
    RDS are paying for it

    Leinster have about 10 years left on the current lease I believe. I'm not sure if there is an agreement to increase costs or anything like that, the RDS may sell naming rights to fund part of it or something along those lines. The RDS obviously wouldn't do it if they weren't confident of it being profitable for them in some way.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,479 ✭✭✭✭ CIARAN_BOYLE


    RDS are paying for it

    Leinster have about 10 years left on the current lease I believe. I'm not sure if there is an agreement to increase costs or anything like that, the RDS may sell naming rights to fund part of it or something along those lines. The RDS obviously wouldn't do it if they weren't confident of it being profitable for them in some way.

    I believe there was a break clause after the first 10 years of the current lease that Leinster were threatening to activate.

    Also Leinster agreed to cooperate fully with the search for a naming partner for the stadium.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,016 ✭✭✭ Bridge93


    Where would this extra space come from? The RDS is surrounded by roads and river on all sides with the RDS itself on one side. There is no space to extend the playing surface anywhere without massive civic redevelopment of the entire area


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,355 CMod ✭✭✭✭ awec


    Bridge93 wrote: »
    Where would this extra space come from? The RDS is surrounded by roads and river on all sides with the RDS itself on one side. There is no space to extend the playing surface anywhere without massive civic redevelopment of the entire area

    You could fit it in if you rotated the pitch 90 degrees but it would take a redevelopment of the entire RDS, not just the stadium portion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,479 ✭✭✭✭ CIARAN_BOYLE


    awec wrote: »
    Bridge93 wrote: »
    Where would this extra space come from? The RDS is surrounded by roads and river on all sides with the RDS itself on one side. There is no space to extend the playing surface anywhere without massive civic redevelopment of the entire area

    You could fit it in if you rotated the pitch 90 degrees but it would take a redevelopment of the entire RDS, not just the stadium portion.
    Could you rotate the pitch 90 degrees and have a pitch without knocking down the protected elements of the Anglesey?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,705 ✭✭✭✭ Interested Observer


    Could you rotate the pitch 90 degrees and have a pitch without knocking down the protected elements of the Anglesey?

    Ah it's obviously never going to happen. It would be a massive remodel of the site.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,564 ✭✭✭✭ Buer


    Could you rotate the pitch 90 degrees and have a pitch without knocking down the protected elements of the Anglesey?

    If I recall correctly, the Anglesea isn't protected. That was a myth that gathered steam some years ago.

    The only protected elements of the RDS are the main building and the clocktower, I think.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,026 ✭✭✭✭ Squidgy Black


    Dublin GAA more than likely won't want to bother with a shared stadium. Between league games and championship the organisation to manage the pitches and reline them with less than 24 hour turnaround sometimes after a rugby match would be more hassle than they'd care for.

    They're not exactly stuck for cash either so the financial aspect of it wouldn't be a huge push.

    And also, would the locals really be welcoming to GAA heads in their area ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,978 irishbucsfan


    Buer wrote: »
    If I recall correctly, the Anglesea isn't protected. That was a myth that gathered steam some years ago.

    The only protected elements of the RDS are the main building and the clocktower, I think.

    The Anglesea will be protected by the blue blood of Leinster ultras if you and your ilk ever try to take her from us, northsider. Never, never, never.


  • Subscribers Posts: 36,215 ✭✭✭✭ sydthebeat


    Buer wrote: »
    If I recall correctly, the Anglesea isn't protected. That was a myth that gathered steam some years ago.

    The only protected elements of the RDS are the main building and the clocktower, I think.

    To get a bit technical....

    If any structure on a site is "protected" third automatically conveys a similar protected status on everything "within the curtilage" of this structure, from a planning point of view.
    So in effect, everything on the site is protected in the planners eyes.
    This obviously doesn't mean that development can't be carried out, just that systems within the planning structure are activated.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,355 CMod ✭✭✭✭ awec


    The Anglesea will be protected by the blue blood of Leinster ultras if you and your ilk ever try to take her from us, northsider. Never, never, never.

    I can see it now. A bunch of Ross O'Carroll Kelly types throwing smoked salmon at the howaya types who retort by throwing breakfast rolls.

    Ibf: "Oh roysh, you dirty person from the northside. I hear your father sells the Avon and that you are the first of your name!"

    Buer: "Arraa heyurrr ya bleedin t'ick! yer nuttin' but a fookin banker!".


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  • Registered Users Posts: 37,978 irishbucsfan


    awec wrote: »
    I can see it now. A bunch of Ross O'Carroll Kelly types throwing smoked salmon at the howaya types who retort by throwing breakfast rolls.

    Ibf: "Oh roysh, you dirty person from the northside. I hear your father sells the Avon and that you are the first of your name!"

    Buer: "Arraa heyurrr ya bleedin t'ick! yer nuttin' but a fookin banker!".

    It won't be 5 minutes before Buer is along to tell us that I'm from Kildare


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,564 ✭✭✭✭ Buer


    IBF, sure you're from..

    Edit: Never mind.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,784 ✭✭✭✭ Winters


    http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/guinness-pro14/decision-looms-on-rds-project-36149967.html
    • Laya look like the sponsors
    • Planning permission secured
    • Awaiting government funding - Probably dependent on RWC 2023 bid given the dates in the article.


  • Registered Users Posts: 780 Kirk Van Houten


    Would imagine all the money will go to the RDS with the main benefit to Leinster being the additional seating although I imagine a revised rent rate will be implemented.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,649 ✭✭✭ impr0v


    Anyone know what the plans are during construction? Home games at a different venue, or just seal off the Anglesea for a season?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭ arsebiscuits1


    impr0v wrote: »
    Anyone know what the plans are during construction? Home games at a different venue, or just seal off the Anglesea for a season?

    I'd imagine they'll start it the second that the season finishes (or possibly a few weeks before and play and playoff games (if applicable) in the Aviva and prey that they're done by the end of the year.

    Realistically they aren't a huge amount of games that sell out in the first half of the season anyway

    Ravenhill was a significantly bigger job and that was done in a season (I think)


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,429 ✭✭✭✭ Cookiemunster


    I'd imagine they'll start it the second that the season finishes (or possibly a few weeks before and play and playoff games (if applicable) in the Aviva and prey that they're done by the end of the year.

    Realistically they aren't a huge amount of games that sell out in the first half of the season anyway

    Ravenhill was a significantly bigger job and that was done in a season (I think)

    Ravenhill was phased over a number of seasons. They built the stand with the boxes first (the side that the cameras are on). They then built the two end stands which added to the capacity before demolishing and rebuilding the main stand.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,479 ✭✭✭✭ CIARAN_BOYLE


    I'd imagine they'll start it the second that the season finishes (or possibly a few weeks before and play and playoff games (if applicable) in the Aviva and prey that they're done by the end of the year.

    Realistically they aren't a huge amount of games that sell out in the first half of the season anyway

    Ravenhill was a significantly bigger job and that was done in a season (I think)

    The problem of course is that would mean that the stands are closed for the showjumping. The showjumping of course is prime in the eyes of the rds powers that be.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,053 ✭✭✭ nc6000


    I'd imagine they'll start it the second that the season finishes (or possibly a few weeks before and play and playoff games (if applicable) in the Aviva and prey that they're done by the end of the year.

    Realistically they aren't a huge amount of games that sell out in the first half of the season anyway

    Ravenhill was a significantly bigger job and that was done in a season (I think)

    I believe the building needs to done without affecting The Horse Show so can't start until late August. I'm sure some clever arranging of fixtures and moving the odd game to Lansdowne could give them a few months to demolish the Anglesea stand and get some of the building works done without the RDS being used for any games.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,355 CMod ✭✭✭✭ awec


    Didn't Leinster say a while ago that Anglesea season ticket holders would be moved to other areas of the ground temporarily, specifically the north and south stands?

    It'll be interesting to see how they do it because surely the number of season ticket holders in the anglesea + the terrace is greater than the number of empty seats available each week in the north and south, so who is going to miss out?


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