Found an abandoned house

dublinbando

Hi guys,

So I have found an abandoned house in the north Dublin area. I'm trying to find out who owns it as it has been abandoned for more than 10 years now and has vines growing all over it! It is in a nice location so I am interested in buying.

Now here is were it gets weird. I checked on landdirect to see if there was a folio number for the plot of land the house is built on but there was nothing! Like if you click on the land its like clicking on the sea i.e no owner/folio whatsoever.

I also checked the fingal planning map to see if there has ever been any planning applications on the place and there was nothing at all, not even historically.

So now I am thinking that this place is just completely forgotten about and unowned, maybe I could just start renovating it and hopefully after 12 years will own it through adverse possession??

Any advice?

pajo1981

Worth a punt I'd say.

Squat on it for a while and see what happens.

runawaybishop

dublinbando wrote: »

maybe I could just start renovating it and hopefully after 12 years will own it through adverse possession??

Any advice?

Don't waste your money, at any time you could be fecked out on your ear. AP is very very hard to push through.


Did you try asking the neighbours?

Ms. Captain M

It could be Registry of Deeds title. There wouldn't be planning if it was built pre 1963

dublinbando

It's in a bit of state so would not currently be habitable, might take about 2-3k to get it in any way decent enough to live in..

And the only neighbor is a pub! Maybe I could ask the owner if he knows anything about it!

ekimiam

land direct will only cover recent transactions ( not compulsory before '02 iirc )
get into the kings in and look for a folio record
or ask the pub !

Mr. Incognito

I'd ask around.

Someone certainly owns it.

You could fix it up but if the owner turns up you have spent money improving it for him and have no right to be recompensated.

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This post has been deleted.

runawaybishop

dublinbando wrote: »

It's in a bit of state so would not currently be habitable, might take about 2-3k to get it in any way decent enough to live in..

And the only neighbor is a pub! Maybe I could ask the owner if he knows anything about it!

2-3k to fix it up? Not a hope. You'll probably have pipes burst due to freezing, rampant mould and there is a good change the electrics are shot. Sure the connection fee alone is 300 euro.

Ultimate Seduction

A house that hasn't been habituated for 10+ years is going to cost closer to 10 or 20k. You wouldn't replace the electrics alone with 2k

Samuel T. Cogley

Work out the cost of renting in that area and spend around 50-75% of that per year doing it up. You're 25 - 50% better off. If it all goes right after a few years you might be able to claim AP but be careful the 12 year limit applies and not the 30 year limit.

juke

If there is no designated folio on Landdirect, then it's going to be a Registry of Deeds title.

You cannot search this register by address - rather by name.

You best port of call to try identify the owner would be local knowledge.
Next step would be a visit to the Valuation Office to find out who the last rated owner was.

http://http://www.valoff.ie/en/Archives_Genealogy_Public_Office/

wordofwarning

dublinbando wrote: »

It's in a bit of state so would not currently be habitable, might take about 2-3k to get it in any way decent enough to live in..

And the only neighbor is a pub! Maybe I could ask the owner if he knows anything about it!

The ESB will charge €1800 alone to get the electric reconnected. After 10 years, the whole house will be to be painted, possibly carpets replaced. The boiler will need to be replaced/replaced.

Treora

AP is long, but relatively easy. There are solicitors who specialise in this, but there are fewer each year. Look in the courts for AP applications and find the solicitor involved. Preferably go for a rural solicitor and if you have to give an address for the property point them at a different place. They have been known to swoop in and claim it for themselves.

The easiest way to find out who the owner is to reverse directory look up; temporarily join a political party and look through the historic register of electors; query the probate office; wrangle the ward registry from a retired independent councilor( if you can put together a plausible story); get a 1 day access to the newspaper archives and look up the address in the sales section it might provide a sales agent that you can check with.

More than likely the person was an individual (no family) who died in a public nursing home before the fair deal scheme. The property could be claimed by the council, but they never ever ever do it. There are official and real reasons for this.

Once you fix it up you could rent it out to three plus separate individuals. Wrap the rental in a company to protect yourself. Put the place under' pay as you go' electricity system moving it from tenant to tenant every year. Have your name on the property tax, for AP, but get it valued officially by two different agents before you fix it up to keep the tax low.

dublinbando

Could I simply put up a hording around the property with a locked gate for 12 years then claim AP?

liam7831

Is this a piss take i sincerely hope it is

Nekarsulm

On the plus side, you could eventually get to take ownership.

On the negative side, you could find yourself looking down the business end of a double barrelled shotgun.

Best to ask around.

tabby aspreme

Put a few piebalds into the site and see who turns up looking cross.
Registering old property can be a nightmare, cottage across the road from me sold recently had 7 separate plots in one half acre

Samuel T. Cogley

Treora wrote: »

AP is long, but relatively easy.

It's long and relatively straight forward. Easy would imply that it's not incredible easy to defeat an AP claim which it is and rightly so. The standard being 'looking over the hedge' in one case so famous I can't remember the bloody name of it.

Robbo

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

It's long and relatively straight forward. Easy would imply that it's not incredible easy to defeat an AP claim which it is and rightly so. The standard being 'looking over the hedge' in one case so famous I can't remember the bloody name of it.

Feehan v. Leamy.

Mr. Incognito

You could take possession and register possessory title in the Land Registry.

If it remains unchallenged for 13 years you can apply for Adverse Possession.

Without the former the latter is nearly impossible.

Peregrinus

No. For adverse possession you actually have to possess the land. Taking steps - even effective steps - to keep other people out is not enough.

Basically, you have to posses the land in a way that would enable the person legally entitled to possession to bring ejectment proceedings or similar against you. It's his failure to bring proceedings until the expiry of the relevant limitation period that is the basis of the adverse possession rule. So you need to be able to point to activity on your part that makes it absolutely clear that you've been in possession of the land - live on the land, farm the land, undertake work on the land, actively use the land, something like that. If you just put up a fence and go away, you've abandoned the land just as effectively as the true owner who didn't put up a fence and went away.

dublinbando

Ok I'm probably not going to do anything with it so I will just show you guys where it is..

It's in Portrane on the Burrow Road beside the pub.

Here is a pin drop on google maps: imgur.com/a/U1X48

And here is the street view from 2009: imgur.com/a/8HGj6

I went up there 2 days ago to check it out and the ivy/vines are now covering most of the front of the house and hasn't been touched since 2009.

I'm thinking that maybe the HSE own it due to it's close proximity to St. Ita's?

What do you guys reckon??

vandriver

Burrow Rd

https://goo.gl/maps/E8efHoK6aM92

Have you really not just dropped in to the pub?

cursai

Thats my beachhouse/

loyatemu

dublinbando wrote: »

What do you guys reckon??

it's a site, the house is probably not worth salvaging.

cursai

loyatemu wrote: »

it's a site, the house is probably not worth salvaging.

And the site is prob worth about 400,000euro. But sure stick a tent up for 13 years.

cursai

That lady in the wheelchair prob won't take kindly to you taking her house either.
https://goo.gl/maps/E8efHoK6aM92

MysticMonk

dublinbando wrote: »

What do you guys reckon??

I reckon *somebody* owns it and the minute you try to break in you'll find yourself out on your ear sharpish.

dublinbando

I hate this though, prime beach front property left to go to sh*t, so much potential! whoever owns it should be ashamed!

Panrich

Looking at it on eircode (K36 XK02) it looks to have decent amount of space at the back too

runawaybishop

dublinbando wrote: »

Ok I'm probably not going to do anything with it so I will just show you guys where it is..

It's in Portrane on the Burrow Road beside the pub.

Here is a pin drop on google maps: imgur.com/a/U1X48

And here is the street view from 2009: imgur.com/a/8HGj6

I went up there 2 days ago to check it out and the ivy/vines are now covering most of the front of the house and hasn't been touched since 2009.

I'm thinking that maybe the HSE own it due to it's close proximity to St. Ita's?

What do you guys reckon??

When you said the only neighbor was a pub i was imagining a place out in the wilderness, sure there are loads of houses nearby! Not a hope you'd get into that place for over a decade without someone coming forward

cursai

dublinbando wrote: »

I hate this though, prime beach front property left to go to sh*t, so much potential! whoever owns it should be ashamed!

Probably involved in some family dispute and lots of greasy fingers clawing at it.

RoboRat

It's in a bit of state so would not currently be habitable, might take about 2-3k to get it in any way decent enough to live in..

There is optimistic and then there is ^^^

I bought a do-er upper and it was lived in until I bought it. I easily spent 25k and that's with me doing all the work including wiring, plastering, tiling etc.

**IF** you managed to acquire that house you would have to knock it or completely gut it. With no heating or habitation the entire house would probably be rotting... it would be an absolute death trap IMO.

tabby aspreme

It could be occupied by some rare colony of bats and cannot be touched

lawred2

dublinbando wrote: »

Hi guys,

So I have found an abandoned house in the north Dublin area. I'm trying to find out who owns it as it has been abandoned for more than 10 years now and has vines growing all over it! It is in a nice location so I am interested in buying.

Now here is were it gets weird. I checked on landdirect to see if there was a folio number for the plot of land the house is built on but there was nothing! Like if you click on the land its like clicking on the sea i.e no owner/folio whatsoever.

I also checked the fingal planning map to see if there has ever been any planning applications on the place and there was nothing at all, not even historically.

So now I am thinking that this place is just completely forgotten about and unowned, maybe I could just start renovating it and hopefully after 12 years will own it through adverse possession??

Any advice?

hmmmm I wonder is this the same abandoned house that I have been keeping my eye on...

lawred2

cursai wrote: »

And the site is prob worth about 400,000euro. But sure stick a tent up for 13 years.

wouldn't be so sure about that - Portrane is hardly a 'des res'

lawred2

It's not the same one btw

johnnyskeleton

OP, while youve been given fairly well intentioned advice on this thread Id strongly recommend that you speak to a solicitor before doing anything drastic. Specifically, ask them about civil claims for trespass to land before you, you know, trespass on someone elses land.

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This post has been deleted.

dublinbando

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

OP, while youve been given fairly well intentioned advice on this thread Id strongly recommend that you speak to a solicitor before doing anything drastic. Specifically, ask them about civil claims for trespass to land before you, you know, trespass on someone elses land.

Yeah I've already said I'm not going for it, but thanks for the advice

InTheTrees

It would make a great site. Surrounded by public land too so nobody could build next to you.

I bet its owned by the pub.

PMBC

Demolition will require Planning Permission
Check County Development Plan maps to see if it has any particular status.
Check County Council to see if it is/was listed as derelict - its not quite that isnce the windows are boarded up

BoatMad

PMBC wrote: »

Demolition will require Planning Permission
Check County Development Plan maps to see if it has any particular status.
Check County Council to see if it is/was listed as derelict - its not quite that isnce the windows are boarded up

isnt it the case that if adjudicated derelict , you have to obtain planing permission to do anything ?, even to restore it

K.Flyer

I imagine some developer bought it back in the day to build a small apartment block on it and either permission or finances didn't work out so they are sitting on it.
Windows and doors all properly boarded up, and probably only a few years ago by the look of their condition.

dublinbando

K.Flyer wrote: »

I imagine some developer bought it back in the day to build a small apartment block on it and either permission or finances didn't work out so they are sitting on it.
Windows and doors all properly boarded up, and probably only a few years ago by the look of their condition.

Bear in mind that image was taken 8 years ago..

loyatemu

dublinbando wrote: »

Bear in mind that image was taken 8 years ago..

also OP stated there have been no PP applications for the site. If it had changed hands anytime recently it would be in the land registry too.

Some sort of long forgotten inheritance dispute seems most likely; or it's owned by the council or other public body.

05eaftqbrs9jlh

I would recommend a trial run squatting, to see if you're hunted out. There's more info on that here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=64451

If you can get in and replace the boards, you could clean it out on the inside and set up a camping-like setup to squat in, making small improvements to it as time goes on. You'd want to start soon though, if you want to own it by 2030. Have some post delivered to it (you'll have to install a letterbox somewhere) so that you can prove you've been there all along.

I think it's a wonderful idea. Mods should maybe consider taking down the address of the place so nobody else snatches it up?

koumi

Op it doesn't matter that you no longer want to do this, I demand that you do. More importantly, for the sake of boards users everywhere who have no more runs of room to improve to watch this year. Think of it like a treasure hunt and report back to us every time you've found a clue.

Bigus

koumi wrote: »

Op it doesn't matter that you no longer want to do this, I demand that you do. More importantly, for the sake of boards users everywhere who have no more runs of room to improve to watch this year. Think of it like a treasure hunt and report back to us every time you've found a clue.

Agreed;

This could've easily surpassed the "I found a safe thread " in anticipation and execution.

dublinbando

cue pink panther sleuth music