Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Buying bikes from UK

Options
2»

Comments

  • Options
    #32
    macplaxton
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 2,957 Mod ✭✭✭✭macplaxton


    A few points of contention on the broadly good advice above:
    MotoTourist wrote: »
    UK police are ruthlessly efficient.
    They are also woefully under-resourced and you'll be hard pressed to find one when you need one.
    MotoTourist wrote: »
    MOT must be valid before riding away. Check online if the vehicle has a current MOT or have the current cert in hand.
    It is perfectly acceptable to travel without a current MOT to and from a pre-arranged MOT test. No distance nor reasonableness is specified in the law and it can be miles away. You can still be prosecuted for various roadworthiness offences, but you can be prosecuted for these at any time even with a current MOT. Make sure the bike is roadworthy and pre-book a test near the boat.

    The last time I did this was wiith a car back in 2014. I drove 70-odd miles across four police force patches (using the M11, M25, M40) and didn't attract any police interest whatsoever. Car passed MOT, bought some from the PO up the road and continued my journey from High Wycombe to Holyhead. Still didn't get a stop even from North Wales Police slowing passing me on the A55. The whole journey from Essex to port was completed with a substantially taped-up rear quarter panel too. Given it's age and appearance, it was begging to be stopped. YMMV.
    MotoTourist wrote: »
    You can't claim 3rd party cover on a vehicle if that vehicle is not insured elsewhere. Cross border use of this rule is not valid, even if on a tour two Irish riders swap Irish bikes in UK.

    You may be able claim 3rd party cover on a vehicle if that vehicle is not insured elsewhere BUT it is all down to the wording on the policy. Some do, some don't. Of note in English case law is Pryor v Great Manchester Police. It's all down to the wording, which has admittedly been added to over the years to included such things as the other vehicle needs to be insured, but it isn't a blanket thing, it's down to the individual contract.

    In the case of buying a bike and riding it back, get an Irish insurer to cover it on the UK registration. It won't be on the Motor Insurance Database (MID), so you'll be inviting an easy tug from the law, but insurers are allowed 7 days to add details to the MID. Make sure you have a motor insurance certificate on your person. It need not be paper. Electronic is acceptable. Noting the Pryor case above, they police has to accept that at face value as the "relevant certificate" and not make things up in their head as to what it means.
    MotoTourist wrote: »
    Legal tyre tread depth in UK is only 1mm, across the centre three-quarters of the tyre.
    The legal tread depth in Ireland is only 1mm, across the entire breadth and around the entire circumference of the tyre. (source:S.I. No. 5/2003 - Road Traffic (Construction and Use of Vehicles) Regulations 2003 Section 55(1)(g).
    MotoTourist wrote: »
    Negotiate with the owner to leave the bike registered, taxed and insured in his name for 24 hours until you leave the country (presuming you go straight to port).

    From the sellers point of view that's a great way to get burned badly. The registration won't be processed immediately as the export slip or cover letter would need to be sent in. The tax takes time to fall off too and you could probably get a seller to defer that for a few days. But insurance, hell no. A very bad idea for the seller to leave that in his name the second it is out of his hands: This bloke will tell you why: https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scots-biker-insurance-hell-after-4141840


  • Options
    #33
    MotoTourist
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭MotoTourist


    All these nuances are spot on. Very helpful. I wanted to convey that you simply must plan for the event of being stopped by Old Bill and have everything in order.

    "Ruthlessly efficient" was meant to describe how things go when you get stopped. There is virtually no chance the copper will wave you on when you explain you are just heading home to Ireland on the ferry, it's only a short trip officer... etc because they won't accept it and will likely confiscate the bike if there are errors of omission.

    The ride without MOT to a test centre can of course be done but it is a very legalistic approach with practical problems like being able to arrange it after hours on the way to the 2am boat.

    It's not my place to say that someone should take the risks of racing back on the fly because you probably won't get stopped - I agree it is entirely possible but not worth taking the risk. I would do it, I have done it, but can't recommend it.

    Anyway, all this is likely a moot point now since Brexit is likely to make Ireland want to charge import duty, VAT on the sale price plus VRT which will wipe out any savings/profit margin for the private importer.


  • Options
    #34
    CJhaughey
    Registered Users Posts: 14,906 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    No biggie, plenty of bikes in Germany and France that are importable and have no vat issues.


  • Options
    #35
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,640 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    CJhaughey wrote: »
    No biggie, plenty of bikes in Germany and France that are importable and have no vat issues.

    Aye but you've to drive on the other side of the road with them :)


  • Options
    #36
    in2dark
    Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭in2dark


    CJhaughey wrote: »
    No biggie, plenty of bikes in Germany and France that are importable and have no vat issues.

    Any links? Or hints where to look?

    Do you mean they can ship it over here or is it better to go n collect?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #37
    H_Lime
    Registered Users Posts: 1,674 ✭✭✭H_Lime


    CJhaughey wrote: »
    No biggie, plenty of bikes in Germany and France that are importable and have no vat issues.
    Yeah but it's more of a balls by far to go to and get back from there than it was from UK. Kinda forced to use an agent, and not everyone's comfortable with that, me for example.


  • Options
    #38
    H_Lime
    Registered Users Posts: 1,674 ✭✭✭H_Lime


    MotoTourist wrote: »
    [Links were disallowed. Try and decipher the addresses...]


    Hi.
    I offer an import service which will allow you to avoid all the problems for just €350 (collection, secure storage and then delivery to your door) however, I want to tell you how to do this all legally and properly yourself in the name of helping fellow bikers to avoid problems.

    I can see this is an old thread.
    I import bikes regularly. I ride them over to Ireland but I am from UK originally and I have an address, insurance and bank account there (for paying the road tax).
    This thread contains some sage advice.
    The view from 2019 isn't much different but let me echo the important points and underline a few.

    UK police are ruthlessly efficient. They have databases and ANPR. Any changes in a vehicle's status are updated in 24hrs.

    You will ping the number plate recognition systems in street mounted surveillance cameras and in their vehicles for the following:

    Owner details, tax validity, insurance, MOT, off-road tax status, vehicle markers inc stolen, drugs or firearms offenses with the vehicle, known use by unlicensed or uninsured drivers plus more.

    Everyone in this thread who jumped on the bike and got back to Ireland unscathed was simply lucky.

    MOT must be valid before riding away. Check online if the vehicle has a current MOT or have the current cert in hand.

    You can't claim 3rd party cover on a vehicle if that vehicle is not insured elsewhere. Cross border use of this rule is not valid, even if on a tour two Irish riders swap Irish bikes in UK.

    If you have an EU license (I think) and a uk address you can use TEMPCOVER DOT COM. Instant 24hr cover costs me £30. Policy and cover note emailed instantly. Alternatively, you may have organised cover with your Irish insurer on the yellow plate but as stated by someone in the thread, make sure you have brought the cert showing the reg or at least have it available online on your phone.

    Tax is not transferable between owners. Tax cover and vehicle ownership can be changed online in seconds before riding away BUT you need a UK address. Export notification is not possible online. Foreign addresses are not accepted for an new owner change. When tax is cancelled the registered keeper gets a pro rata refund of remaining whole months if it was paid upfront. However, this is a cheque sent to the registered keeper UK address. You might be able to negotiate with the seller to change ownership into your name at his address, insure it with TempCover in your name at his address and then tax it online and get the refund sterling cheque sent to him but it will be in your name and can mailed on and be deposited into your Bank of Ireland account.

    I always put a bike into my name in UK because I can and I tax it knowing I will cancel it within the month and lose one twelfth of that amount (~£7). Some people in this scenario will pay by direct debit and cancel it the next day. The vehicle is considered taxed from the moment you set up the DD but the first payment is 10 to 14 days away. Keep a screen shot of the confirmation and you are covered for a roadside stop.

    There are speed cameras everywhere. Avoid speeding or at least keep it to 10% over. A ticket on the way home would go to the previous owner unless you have put it in your name at a UK address, but within that first 24hrs it might still go to the previous owner regardless.

    Documents.
    V5 ownership doc. DONT let the seller keep the main section of the document. You must leave with sections 1to9 intact and unmarked. Sellers usually send that off themselves if ownership isn't changed online. Unless you put it in your name in UK, for exports, they are advised to write to DVLA about change of ownership and you take the original document away. You can't import it to ROI without that doc.

    Keep your ferry ticket. The emailed ticket with the vehicle reg or a boarding pass with the reg showing will prove date of entry into ROI.

    Get a hand written receipt from the owner making sure it says reg, date of sale and value of the bike (for VRT purposes).

    Legal tyre tread depth in UK is only 1mm, across the centre three-quarters of the tyre.

    Fill up with fuel before getting on the ferry. I discovered the hard way that there is no open fuel station between Rosslare and Ferns that is open at 4am...

    Taking risks.
    If this is all too much hassle you could take a risk but reduce the potential for being stopped by police by doing this :

    Negotiate with the owner to leave the bike registered, taxed and insured in his name for 24 hours until you leave the country (presuming you go straight to port). This will mean that cameras will not ping you because the database says everything is in order. Insurance would still be an issue unless you have TempCover or have pre arranged cover from your Irish insurer. This depends on if the seller is telling the truth about the tax and insurance status and if he doesn't inform DVLA of change of ownership behind your back. Do your own checks here:

    Check tax and MOT status
    Google vehicleenquiry DOT service DOT gov DOT uk

    Check if bike is insured somewhere on that particular day.
    Google ownvehicle DOT askmid DOT com

    I suppose this would be plan A but you can't presume upon the seller to agree to this.

    Hopefully this helps you all out.

    Also I source bikes for people. Contact me to discuss.

    https COLON SLASH SLASH what-a-ride DOT site123 DOT me/
    Very comprehensive and a great bit of info!
    I must ask though, why would someone use you who ride the bikes back risking break downs, crashing (god forbid) petrol costs I assume and wear and tear versus a lad with a van who avoids all the above and the legal pitfalls by simply rolling it into the back and driving to my door?


  • Options
    #39
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,640 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    in2dark wrote: »
    Any links? Or hints where to look?

    Do you mean they can ship it over here or is it better to go n collect?


    https://m.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/detailsuche?s=Car&vc=Motorbike

    And get Overlanders or someone to ship


    Or you could drive it back yourself. Adventure..


  • Options
    #40
    in2dark
    Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭in2dark


    listermint wrote: »
    https://m.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/detailsuche?s=Car&vc=Motorbike

    And get Overlanders or someone to ship


    Or you could drive it back yourself. Adventure..

    Did this drive back with my current bike. Bought it in Berlin 13 years ago. But i was young back then :-)

    Thanks for the links


  • Options
    #41
    blade1
    Registered Users Posts: 12,114 ✭✭✭✭blade1


    in2dark wrote: »
    Did this drive back with my current bike. Bought it in Berlin 13 years ago. But i was young back then :-)

    Thanks for the links

    Did you go to Germany specifically to buy that bike?
    Or was it your bike anyway and you were bringing home with?

    Any bike I've been interested in has been dearer on the continent.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #42
    in2dark
    Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭in2dark


    blade1 wrote: »
    Did you go to Germany specifically to buy that bike?
    Or was it your bike anyway and you were bringing home with?

    Any bike I've been interested in has been dearer on the continent.

    Went there to buy it. 3 years old bike with tiny amount of kms on it bought it for an amazing price. Kept the german plates on for two years and was paying 150 euros per year insurance when the irish one would cost me close to 1000...

    Only problem was i had to drive it there once again to do the "nct"

    Eventually i registered it here after some years

    At that time the price for same bike here was close to double the price. Maybe i was lucky


Advertisement