cyclist and truck incident in smithfield this morning

mr spuckler

just seen this on my fb feed. typically misleading / inaccurate headline.

Cyclist Collides With Truck In Smithfield This Morning

fingers crossed it's not serious.

ellobee

Why do you think the headline is misleading and inaccurate??

mr spuckler

ellobee wrote: »

Why do you think the headline is misleading and inaccurate??

because without any detail or witness account it says that the cyclist collided with the truck not the other way around, thereby implying that the cyclist is at fault.

cython

mr spuckler wrote: »

because without any detail or witness account it says that the cyclist collided with the truck not the other way around, thereby implying that the cyclist is at fault.

Much and all as I hate LD, they are simply phrasing it as 98fm did, so I'd suggest highlighting them as the ones to mislead.

Hopefully he is not too seriously injured in any case.

I saw the aftermath of this incident. It looked serious but I didn't want to look to closely so can't say more than that. It's a dangerous enough junction, particularly if you don't know it well. Either way the lorry clearly turned left from the right hand lane (which is legal). Where the cyclist was at that point I couldn't say but it looked like he may have been on the left hand side of the right lane and hoping to go straight on (also legal). That's the most obvious interpretation of what I saw anyway.

I hope he is OK - it was a big lorry.

beauf

ellobee wrote: »

Why do you think the headline is misleading and inaccurate??

They should say there was a collision involving a cyclist and a truck.

The heading in this case isn't the worst I've seen. You might think its being pedantic, but there's a definite anti cyclist bias to much of irish media reporting.

mr spuckler

beauf wrote: »

They should say there was a collision involving a cyclist and a truck.

The heading in this case isn't the worst I've seen. You might think its being pedantic, but there's a definite anti cyclist bias to much of irish media reporting.

there definitely is a recurring a theme to the reporting on these incidents and this type of headline crops up too often.

magicbastarder

it happened recently with that case of the motorist driving without lights - several news outlets reported it as the cyclist having struck the car.

Rakish Paddy

I saw the aftermath of this accident just as the paramedics were arriving and it really shook me. The cyclist was lying on the road and didn't seem to be moving when I passed by. I hope he pulls through OK.

OldBean

I hope everyone involved comes out ok, but it definitely sounds/looked serious.

This has hit pretty close to home.

I had a huge argument with a Garda on a bike about this about 6 months ago on this exact spot. He threatened myself and my wife with a fine for taking the lane on this road to turn right. He said all cyclists should stay on the left where the bike lane is, and move from there to the right hand turn.

The Garda made a pretty big deal of us being in the centre of the right lane turning right when there was a bike lane on the left hand side of the left lane, and threatened other cyclists doing the same while we were arguing - He said he's never had an issue crossing both lanes to turn right, which I'd well believe when you're cycling a Garda bike with 'Garda' written across your back.

He didn't issue us with a fine. Some other cyclists stopped and backed up what we were saying. Another Garda stopped and told the Garda on the bike he was wrong and he'd be best walk away but I've seen him there since doing the same thing.

I'm not saying he had anything to do with this accident, but it's hard enough to encourage safe cycling when people are being told tucking in to left on a junction like that is the right thing to do.

irishrover99

Having lived in Smithfield for about 7 years i would say this turn is one i always hated while driving a car or even crossing at the traffic lights while walking.
I just went by the accident about an hour ago and the Garda had the place blocked off and the Garda photographer was taking pictures which made it look like a serious matter to me. I only seen the aftermath of that ladys accident on the Templeville road a few weeks ago and this look very similar.

daheff

mr spuckler wrote: »

because without any detail or witness account it says that the cyclist collided with the truck not the other way around, thereby implying that the cyclist is at fault.

but "without any detail or witness account" if it said the "other way around" it would also be misleading or inaccurate.



It should have said a collision between truck & bike...not either crashing into the other.

Carlos Orange

cython wrote: »

Much and all as I hate LD, they are simply phrasing it as 98fm did, so I'd suggest highlighting them as the ones to mislead.

Hopefully he is not too seriously injured in any case.

They say "bike and a truck collided" collided (now anyway).
Mind you the junction they reference doesn't seem to exist.

cython

psinno wrote: »

They say "bike and a truck collided" collided (now anyway).
Mind you the junction they reference doesn't seem to exist.

That has been updated since, as has the headline on the article. Too much to hope that they might note these details, mind :rolleyes:

maximoose

OldBean wrote: »

I had a huge argument with a Garda on a bike about this about 6 months ago on this exact spot. He threatened myself and my wife with a fine for taking the lane on this road to turn left. He said all cyclists should stay on the left where the bike lane is, and move from there to the right hand turn.

The Garda made a pretty big deal of us being in the centre of the right lane turning right

Sorry just confused here, which way were you turning?

It can be a confusing junction, fingers crossed the person involved is ok.

mr spuckler

daheff wrote: »

but "without any detail or witness account" if it said the "other way around" it would also be misleading or inaccurate.



It should have said a collision between truck & bike...not either crashing into the other.

agreed. i didn't make myself at all clear but my issue is that it's always written the way it was here, not that it should be rewritten to imply blame for the other road user!

Zulu

Which junction?


Anyway who's honestly suggesting it's the cyclists fault? :rolleyes:

OldBean

maximoose wrote: »

Sorry just confused here, which way were you turning?

It can be a confusing junction, fingers crossed the person involved is ok.

I'm turning right, so moved to the right hand lane and took up a position central on it.

As I'm sure you know, it's pretty common for people to park along the right hand side of the road and it's one of those streets that seems to invite motorists to accelerate pretty hard so if I feel I need to, I'll take the centre of the lane so any cars behind me that are also turning right won't force me too close to the curb directly after making the turn, and keep me out of harms way from car doors. I'm well lit up and have reflectors on the rear of my bike. I take the left hand turn pretty much straight after.

mr spuckler

Zulu wrote: »

Which junction?

picture and street names here.

http://irishcycle.com/2017/05/11/person-on-bicycle-injuried-in-collision-with-truck-driver-in-smithfield/

Blowfish

OldBean wrote: »

The Garda made a pretty big deal of us being in the centre of the right lane turning right when there was a bike lane on the left hand side of the left lane, and threatened other cyclists doing the same while we were arguing - He said he's never had an issue crossing both lanes to turn right, which I'd well believe when you're cycling a Garda bike with 'Garda' written across your back.

I really wish there was better training for the Gardai when it comes to cycling safety. Even the Rules of the Road disagree with him (p188):

ROTR wrote:

When turning right, get into the centre or just left of centre of the right turning lane. This helps to prevent a vehicle overtaking you whilst you are changing direction. Look behind and give the proper signal before you move out and ensure traffic in that lane is not going straight ahead. On steep hills or busy roads, pull into the left-hand side of the road and wait until there is a break in traffic in both directions to let you make the turn safely.

From looking at the junction, I'd do exactly the same thing, to try and prevent what happened today.

trellheim

This is currently one of my commutes on two wheels ( North King St to Georges Lane and thence to Stoneybatter ) .

That right turn is exceedingly dangerous for experienced cyclists , you must take the lane fully to be safe sometimes . As someone on the thread has said, North King St seems to attract motorists driving at a higher speed and it can get very hairy indeed . If you maintain position on the south side of North King St till the very end to cross to Georges Lane you will have a very very unsafe cycling experience . Night time in wind and rain makes this worse. That plus people parking on the north side to go to the Gym etc or the Indian makes it even worse.

Thoughts with the cyclist concerned

Danbo!

He suffered what are being described as "serious injuries" to his arm.

From: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/cyclist-seriously-injured-after-recycling-truck-collision-35703985.html

ThisRegard

beauf wrote: »

They should say there was a collision involving a cyclist and a truck.

The heading in this case isn't the worst I've seen. You might think its being pedantic, but there's a definite anti cyclist bias to much of irish media reporting.

I'm sure the phrasing was similar on Newstalk last night regarding the incident in Kerry, made it sound like the cyclist collided with the tractor.

edit: Just listened back,

the woman was cycling a bike which hit a tractor

is the exact phrasing used. You can only really abstract one meaning from that if you adhere to the English language.

OldBean

I'm glad to hear it wasn't a fatal accident. I hope the chap that went down has a solid recovery ahead.

The Google Maps image on IrishCycle.com really shows what an awful junction it is to have to try turn right from the bike lane.

Blowfish wrote: »

I really wish there was better training for the Gardai when it comes to cycling safety. Even the Rules of the Road disagree with him (p188):

From looking at the junction, I'd do exactly the same thing, to try and prevent what happened today.

I should have included in my original post, the reasons given by the Garda for threatening a fixed penalty fine on us was not using a cycle lane and holding up traffic (it was 10am on a Sunday morning, there was no traffic on the road but that's beside the point considering both myself and my wife on bicycles should be considered traffic and were travelling 24-27kph in an area with a 30kph speed limit...). Both of which could fit in under section 4b of the FPN for cyclists:

Cyclist driving a pedal cycle without reasonable consideration

I argued it with him at the time, and would have again in court if he issued the fine.

Mac-Chops

Majority of traffic will turn left at this junction and people generally don't indicate that they're doing this I've found.

Wishbone Ash

OldBean wrote: »

....I should have included in my original post, the reasons given by the Garda for threatening a fixed penalty fine on us was not using a cycle lane and holding up traffic (it was 10am on a Sunday morning, there was no traffic on the road but that's beside the point considering both myself and my wife on bicycles should be considered traffic and were travelling 24-27kph in an area with a 30kph speed limit...). Both of which could fit in under section 4b of the FPN for cyclists:

Cyclist driving a pedal cycle without reasonable consideration

I argued it with him at the time, and would have again in court if he issued the fine.

You're very restrained!

I would have demanded to be charged/fined and look forward to arguing my point in court. I've tried that a couple of times but Gardai suddenly seem reluctant to charge/fine when you put it up to them.

Danbo!

Danbo! wrote: »

From: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/cyclist-seriously-injured-after-recycling-truck-collision-35703985.html

Glad to hear this wasn't fatal. It didn't look that way this morning.

It's a terrible junction. When I cycled that route I usually just pulled up on the left and waited for the pedestrian lights to change before turning right.

WRT the Guard on the bicycle, I suspect I know the person you are talking about. I have had my own run in with him in the same area. Apparently in these days of scarce resources it pays to have a guard lecture cyclists at great length about incredibly minor (or just invented) infractions of the rules of the road.

OldBean

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

You're very restrained!

I would have demanded to be charged/fined and look forward to arguing my point in court. I've tried that a couple of times but Gardai suddenly seem reluctant to charge/fine when you put it up to them.

I'm good at civil arguing - it's not often you get one Garda to tell another they're wrong. Felt good.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

WRT the Guard on the bicycle, I suspect I know the person you are talking about. I have had my own run in with him in the same area. Apparently in these days of scarce resources it pays to have a guard lecture cyclists at great length about incredibly minor (or just invented) infractions of the rules of the road.

I've no doubt it's the same person. Badge number beginning with 4?

He's previously told cyclists to use the footpaths and quote his badge number, saying he's given permission to cycle there if any other other Gardaì stop you.

In light of this mornings incident, I'd head into the station if I thought it'd do any good... will it?

Rakish Paddy

It's a terrible junction, both for bad driver behaviour and bad cyclist behaviour.

- Drivers in the right lane who are turning left tend not to bother indicating at all. I really don't understand this one. From casual observation there I'd put the number at about 4 out of 5 drivers not bothering to indicate.

- I've both had and observed near misses where drivers turning left went straight through the red lights at a fair speed while the pedestrian green man was lit. An absolute jackass of a taxi driver nearly flattened me doing that.

- A load of eejits cycle on the footpath past the HIQA building and either come around the corner on the footpath straight into pedestrians on North King St, or come off the path and cut straight across the right turn lane, into the middle of the junction, to get into the lanes with the left-turning traffic. I've seen this both where there was oncoming traffic and where the pedestrians had the green man. Silly move either way.

- Most scarily of all, you'll often see some of the indigenous tracksuited scrotes (and the occasional deliveroo courier) cycling the wrong way down North King St into oncoming traffic.

And the one thing I've never seen there is any kind of Garda traffic corps enforcement!

magicbastarder

OldBean wrote: »

In light of this mornings incident, I'd head into the station if I thought it'd do any good... will it?

given that it's possible that this morning's victim may have been ordered to do the same by the same garda, it may be worth making a statement on it.

this is said with the clear optimism that the gardai will not protect one of their own, clearly.

OleRodrigo

I've little doubt that cycling in Dublin will get worse - more injuries, more frequently - before it gets better.

We're getting close to a point where you need next level skills to keep yourself safe.

Parchment

OleRodrigo wrote: »

I've little doubt that cycling in Dublin will get worse - more injuries, more frequently - before it gets better.

We're getting close to a point where you need next level skills to keep yourself safe.

You can have all the skills you want but if a car hits you thats it.

triggermortis

OleRodrigo wrote: »

We're getting close to a point where you need next level skills to keep yourself safe.

That's me screwed then....

Garzard

This occurred right around the corner of my workplace. Was confused to find the general area blocked off by Garda on my way in this morning until seeing the truck and crushed bike at the junction.

I use that juncture to exit Smithfield and it can be frustrating at the best of times - as others have mentioned it's very heavily used and I've observed most motorists not bothering to indicate left from the right-hand lane. On the way in I typically find myself forced to dismount and cross the pedestrian lights instead of continuing straight because I can't rely on motorists to indicate left. Very easy to be caught out.

Wishbone Ash

Rakish Paddy wrote: »

...- Drivers in the right lane who are turning left tend not to bother indicating at all. I really don't understand this one. From casual observation there I'd put the number at about 4 out of 5 drivers not bothering to indicate.....

The reason they don't indicate is that they are not 'turning' as such and simply following the normal flow as both lanes turn to the left with priority. To go straight on there you are effectively 'turning right'.

It would be utterly insane for any cyclist intending going straight on to George's Lane/North Brunswick Street to remain in the cycle lane. Effectively you'd be making a right turn from the left lane.

(Ironic that this junction is on the doorstep of the DPP's Office).

monument

OldBean wrote: »

I hope everyone involved comes out ok, but it definitely sounds/looked serious.

This has hit pretty close to home.

I had a huge argument with a Garda on a bike about this about 6 months ago on this exact spot. He threatened myself and my wife with a fine for taking the lane on this road to turn right. He said all cyclists should stay on the left where the bike lane is, and move from there to the right hand turn.

The Garda made a pretty big deal of us being in the centre of the right lane turning right when there was a bike lane on the left hand side of the left lane, and threatened other cyclists doing the same while we were arguing - He said he's never had an issue crossing both lanes to turn right, which I'd well believe when you're cycling a Garda bike with 'Garda' written across your back.

He didn't issue us with a fine. Some other cyclists stopped and backed up what we were saying. Another Garda stopped and told the Garda on the bike he was wrong and he'd be best walk away but I've seen him there since doing the same thing.

I'm not saying he had anything to do with this accident, but it's hard enough to encourage safe cycling when people are being told tucking in to left on a junction like that is the right thing to do.

I used to use the junction daily -- that's unreal and that garda needs to be complained about if he's doing that again.

alexf1

I used to live around the corner and drive that road daily, but never cycled (for fear of being killed actually). The cars turning left onto Queen Street from both lanes on North King Street do not, and should not, indicate left. They are effectively going straight ahead. All cars turning right from the right lane of King street should indicate right (very very very few do that though). I've witnesses countless near misses with pedestrians (and cyclists crossing from the footpath) with cars turning right without indicating.

I feel ill thinking about the poor cyclist and hopefully it's not as serious as I've heard it may be. The cycle lane isn't much use on that road and in fact should be removed. Cyclists should be in the middle of the normal traffic lanes there. The speed limit is 30km/h anyway. There are always cars parked both sides, driveways and junctions exit onto the road from both sides, cars turn into the little car park at the top of the square etc. It's nuts to force bikes into that cycle lane.

As for the garda, I'd be making a complaint.

monument

alexf1 wrote: »

I used to live around the corner and drive that road daily, but never cycled (for fear of being killed actually). The cars turning left onto Queen Street from both lanes on North King Street do not, and should not, indicate left. They are effectively going straight ahead.

What exactly makes you think that you don't have to indicate?

There's nothing to suggest that one turn is more minor than the other.

alexf1

monument wrote: »

What exactly makes you think that you don't have to indicate?

There's nothing to suggest that one turn is more minor than the other.

That's the way it looks to me from the road markings

the_pen_turner

mr spuckler wrote: »

picture and street names here.

http://irishcycle.com/2017/05/11/person-on-bicycle-injuried-in-collision-with-truck-driver-in-smithfield/

if this is the jusction in question then there is no need or reason to indicate left. indicating left would signal lane changes. no indicator means following the road as it follows around the bend

anyone in the left lane trying to go straight there is completely wrong. its irrelivent if its a truck, car or cyclist, you cant just cross across a lane like that

Allah snackbar

I would think a cyclist would hold the right lane to go straight , no motorist or cyclist should be in the left lane going straight

DanDublin1982

Hopefully the cyclist makes a full recovery.

That junction really is a pox, and I've only ever gone through it in a car.

ellobee

Allah snackbar wrote: »

I would think a cyclist would hold the right lane to go straight , no motorist or cyclist should be in the left lane going straight

The road markings are poor, There is a broken white line continuing around the bend in the road, if this was a solid white line then all traffic in the left lane would have to stay in that lane. also the last time I was on that road there were no directional arrows painted on the road. I would also agree that indicating left is not required as the main 2 lane road sweeps around to the left with all other traffic having to give way, and the road to the right is a smaller minor road branching off the main road and you should probably indicate right for this road. But its definitely time this junction was redesigned to cater for cyclists who want to go right.

monument

alexf1 wrote: »

That's the way it looks to me from the road markings

What exact road markings?

Moflojo

The road markings and layout suggest that the right hand lane continues around the bend to the left, and a driver in the right hand lane wouldn't necessarily need to indicate left in order to follow the bend around to the left. This is my interpretation of this junction whether I am driving or cycling this route. Generally, I always indicate left when I am in the right lane, but it's mostly to deter drivers pulling out in front of me coming from the Stoneybatter/Blackhall Place direction.

Fian

I understand that the injuries were very serious.

I hope the cyclist recovers to the maximum.

superd1978

Does anyone know if this guy is ok? My apartment overlooks the accident scene, it was a disturbing seen and noise to wake up to yesterday morning. im still getting flashbacks.

The guards described his injuries as extreme, so Id really like to know if this guy is ok, if anyone has any info. Ill keep an eye on this thread.

Thanks.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Just had a look at that "cyclist crusher" junction on google maps. My god, that's an awful layout. I like the little piece of off road cycle track to prevent pinching turning left, but it creates a new problem, who has right of way on the merge?

The Guard is 100% in the wrong here. That's just a fool following his perception of the law to the letter. A bit of cop on wouldn't go amiss. Your life is more important than his opinion. That he had the audacity to threaten a "catch all" charge when you didn't agree, just speaks volumes. A bully is what he is.

RacoonQueen

Moflojo wrote: »

The road markings and layout suggest that the right hand lane continues around the bend to the left, and a driver in the right hand lane wouldn't necessarily need to indicate left in order to follow the bend around to the left. This is my interpretation of this junction whether I am driving or cycling this route. Generally, I always indicate left when I am in the right lane, but it's mostly to deter drivers pulling out in front of me coming from the Stoneybatter/Blackhall Place direction.

Ah now I understand where it happened. That whole stretch coming from Bolton street is awful for any vehicle. Often full of kamikaze taxis stopping/starting at the mater rapid clinic.When I drive along there it always annoys me when someone comes from the right lane and turns left...even in the car I find it a major hazard. Would hate to be cycling along here.

Best wishes to this guy. Awful couple of days of news for cyclists again.

Tombo2001

IIRC

LovinDublin have had a few anti-cyclist articles.....

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Tombo2001 wrote: »

IIRC

LovinDublin have had a few anti-cyclist articles.....

Just search articles relating to cycling. "This video just shows how dangerous it is to cycle in Dublin" is a common occurrence. Just crappy "reporting" (story writing would be more apt).