Civil "communion" for 8 year old girl

mar12345

Hi,

My daughter who is in 2nd class will not be making her communion, so we decided to have a ceremony at home to make her feel special too. We invited friends and family, will have a bbq so she doesn't feel left out.

Have any of you done something like this? I am looking for nice texts / poems / music and songs that would be meaningful.

Any suggestions much appreciated!!!!

magicbastarder

that would raise the question as to what the poems or songs would be celebrating, other than a nice day for her?
do you have a theme?

One eyed Jack

I've heard of it done before alright.

This article might give you some ideas OP -

Communion without the Catholicism

mar12345

It would be to celebrate her reaching the age of reason and starting to take steps towards independence...

mar12345

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I've heard of it done before alright.

This article might give you some ideas OP -

Communion without the Catholicism

Brilliant article, thank you very for sharing, it s a great starting point and food for thought :-)

fj4400

mar12345 wrote:

My daughter who is in 2nd class will not be making her communion, so we decided to have a ceremony at home to make her feel special too. We invited friends and family, will have a bbq so she doesn't feel left out.

Does this BBQ coincide with anything other than the communion? ...
A birthday or significant milestone? If not... and your planning it at the same time as the communion... it's a touch hypocritical

Tombo2001

mar12345 wrote: »

Brilliant article, thank you very for sharing, it s a great starting point and food for thought :-)

When my husband and I came to parenthood, we had long walked from the religion of our upbringing. For me, it had not been a difficult or fraught journey, possibly because even though the rituals of that religion – Catholicism – had been broadly observed in our household, there was little dogma espoused, and church teachings often didn’t sit with ideologies freely advanced by my feminist mother.
I don’t think it is impossible to be a Catholic and a feminist, but as I awakened to early adulthood and feminism, for me the church embodied a patriarchy so deeply enshrined that my parting of ways with it felt organic.
That is not to say there weren’t difficult emotions involved. Like any Catholic of my era, I was not untouched by indoctrination. However, a picture of systemic human-rights abuse within the church was becoming exposed and, as I witnessed a grave and ongoing institutional abdication of responsibility, my resolve intensified to carve out a meaningful life for myself outside its confines.

This part doesn't sit well with me to be honest.

While atheist myself, making a decision that your child wont have a communion should not be a platform for telling the world how right on you are.

Its about the kid, not about you.

(And I am not directing this at you in anyway OP, just that its something to be wary of).

Also - its a lot easier to do what the author did from within an Educate Together school, where they are not the odd one out, than from a regular RC school.

_Brian

I find it very odd that people choose to shun organised religion but then go on to have "civil" services such as this to mimic the very thing they are shunning.

It's like people choosing to eat quorn, but expecting it to look and taste like a cooked dead animal - why bother !!

I fully respect that OP is choosing to ignore religion and bring their child up without, but having a pretend communion is sending a mixed message that indeed the child is missing out on something.

One eyed Jack

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Also - its a lot easier to do what the author did from within an Educate Together school, where they are not the odd one out, than from a regular RC school.

That's actually not necessarily true either. A child may well be the odd one out if the other children in their class in an ET school are making their Communion.

For example in my area alone, the way it's working out is that there are enough children from one RC school making their communion that they don't have to make an arrangement with the other RC schools in the area. But, the children in the ET school even though the majority in the class are making their Communion, there's still not enough of them to do it on their own and they're having a combined ceremony with another RC school in the area where only a minority of the children in the RC school class will be making their Communion.

smacl

mar12345 wrote: »

Any suggestions much appreciated!!!!

My approach was to do something entirely unceremonious but great fun, so I took the girls out to see Lilly Allen live in the Point (eldest) and Florence and the Machine (youngest). Grabbing and early bird meal and bringing the kids to a decent gig is always a bit special, not to mention scoring them some serious envy points from their peers. Something we still do a few times a year and still all enjoy.

You have to ask yourself how much pleasure they're likely to get from a BBQ and some poetry with the old folks.

Bitches Be Trypsin

I don't get it honestly, why should a non-religious person have an imitation of a religious sacrament? It's part of what you choose when you choose not to raise a child as religious. I have a lot of Islamic peers and I don't imitate Eid because I'm jealous of the food and music and dancing. I think you'd be better off explaining to her why she isn't having the day and the party as opposed to having a ceremony for no particular reason.

Atoms for Peace

All catholic ceremonies are based on previous pagan or Jewish celebrations​, so I wouldn't see a secular one as being any way hypocritical.

professore

_Brian wrote: »

I find it very odd that people choose to shun organised religion but then go on to have "civil" services such as this to mimic the very thing they are shunning.

It's like people choosing to eat quorn, but expecting it to look and taste like a cooked dead animal - why bother !!

I fully respect that OP is choosing to ignore religion and bring their child up without, but having a pretend communion is sending a mixed message that indeed the child is missing out on something.

The kid IS missing out .... on tons of money !!!! There is no mixed message. Easy to spot people above who don't have kids themselves - or ( horror ) do have kids, but have no idea how to put themselves in their kids' shoes. This is something for the kid, not for the parents IMO.

EDIT: Just saw it's an 8 year old girl ... even worse!!! She misses out on the whole "wedding dress experience" too !!!

TheChizler

Bitches Be Trypsin wrote: »

I don't get it honestly, why should a non-religious person have an imitation of a religious sacrament? It's part of what you choose when you choose not to raise a child as religious. I have a lot of Islamic peers and I don't imitate Eid because I'm jealous of the food and music and dancing. I think you'd be better off explaining to her why she isn't having the day and the party as opposed to having a ceremony for no particular reason.

Do you do anything special for halloween?

Tombo2001

_Brian wrote: »

I find it very odd that people choose to shun organised religion but then go on to have "civil" services such as this to mimic the very thing they are shunning.

It's like people choosing to eat quorn, but expecting it to look and taste like a cooked dead animal - why bother !!

I fully respect that OP is choosing to ignore religion and bring their child up without, but having a pretend communion is sending a mixed message that indeed the child is missing out on something.

The child is missing out on something.

A big day out where they are the centre of the Universe for 24 hours....

Who wouldn't want that, especially when loads of their friends are getting one.

Fair play OP, I think its a good move.

You have the format - BBQ, bouncy castle, invite the cousins and uncles and aunts - all you need is the premise; which is likely to be more meaningful for you than communion is for a lot parents whose kids have their actual first communion.

Tombo2001

Straw poll - how many of those who 'don't get it' have 8 year old kids......

Help!!!!

mar12345 wrote: »

Hi,

My daughter who is in 2nd class will not be making her communion, so we decided to have a ceremony at home to make her feel special too. We invited friends and family, will have a bbq so she doesn't feel left out.

Have any of you done something like this? I am looking for nice texts / poems / music and songs that would be meaningful.

Any suggestions much appreciated!!!!

So would those invited be giving presents/money as they would for a real communion?

Help!!!!

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Straw poll - how many of those who 'don't get it' have 8 year old kids......

Well its your decision to bring your child up atheist, did you ask them if they wanted the communion with their friends?

daheff

Don't get me wrong OP

I understand what you are trying to achieve here, and my comment is not so much about you, but more in general (and speaking somewhat hypocritically myself)-


I don't understand why people who dont want to be religious go then to the trouble of celebrating religious events in a non-religious way.

People get 'married', have 'naming ceremonies' for children, celebrate christmas /easter times and now a 'civil communion'.

Surely if people are non believers then they don't do any of the religious stuff...not doing a half a la carte version of it?


Personally I've been married civilly (for the missus and for legal purposes), our kids were baptised (so they could go to the local school). We celebrate Xmas/Easter as nice times of the year...but wouldnt be going to mass over the time.


I reckon people still are believers deep down, but don't see the church as relevant anymore

One eyed Jack

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Straw poll - how many of those who 'don't get it' have 8 year old kids......

I have a 12 year old who has made their Communion, and is making their Confirmation this year. I'm a practicing Roman Catholic and I don't get the point of what the OP is trying to do.

However, because I understand that other people don't think the same way I do, and because I'd heard of the concept before, while I might think it's bizarre, unnecessary, etc, I'm not going to pass judgement on the OP for asking the question and considering their options.

It's good to keep an open mind about these things IMO.

Tombo2001

daheff wrote: »

Don't get me wrong OP

I understand what you are trying to achieve here, and my comment is not so much about you, but more in general (and speaking somewhat hypocritically myself)-


I don't understand why people who dont want to be religious go then to the trouble of celebrating religious events in a non-religious way.

People get 'married', have 'naming ceremonies' for children, celebrate christmas /easter times and now a 'civil communion'.

Surely if people are non believers then they don't do any of the religious stuff...not doing a half a la carte version of it?


Personally I've been married civilly (for the missus and for legal purposes), our kids were baptised (so they could go to the local school). We celebrate Xmas/Easter as nice times of the year...but wouldnt be going to mass over the time.


I reckon people still are believers deep down, but don't see the church as relevant anymore

Completely disagree - some religious ceremonies are also very pleasant social or cultural gatherings; so why wouldn't people want to hold on to that, even without the religion.

For example - I went tolisten to a choir in London recently, Westminster Abbey. Fantastic music in a beautiful setting. So should I be saying to myself - this is fantastic music in a beautiful setting, but I'm not religious so I should leave right now......? No!

smacl

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Straw poll - how many of those who 'don't get it' have 8 year old kids......

Have two girls, 'don't get it', neither of them have shown any interest whatsoever in communion or anything similar. With respect, I think these faux ceremonies basically involve paying the kids off so that the parents can show them off for the day. Take the money out of the equation and the kids would either have no interest or actively rebel against it. In my experience, young kids like to play, have fun, make a huge mess and a lot of noise, not being paraded around like barbie dolls. YMMV.

dubrov

daheff wrote: »

Don't get me wrong OP

I understand what you are trying to achieve here, and my comment is not so much about you, but more in general (and speaking somewhat hypocritically myself)-


I don't understand why people who don't want to be religious go then to the trouble of celebrating religious events in a non-religious way.

I think you have got this backward. There is a human desire to mark important life events (birth, childhood to adulthood, marriage, death) with a rite of passage. Religions just cater to that need.

People don't celebrate these events because of religions, religions celebrate these events because of people.

Just because the OP doesn't believe in the religion it does not mean that the desire to celebrate this life stage has gone away.

Tombo2001

smacl wrote: »

Have two girls, 'don't get it', neither of them have shown any interest whatsoever in communion or anything similar. With respect, I think these faux ceremonies basically involve paying the kids off so that the parents can show them off for the day. Take the money out of the equation and the kids would either have no interest or actively rebel against it. In my experience, young kids like to play, have fun, make a huge mess and a lot of noise, not being paraded around like barbie dolls. YMMV.

So be it.

I've certainly been aware of kids who were upset that all their friends are having communion and they aren't.

Also, people keep referencing the money, I actually don't think its that much of a deal for the kids. I think its more the adults who keep banging on about the 'money' side of it.

The kids are into the sense of occasion, seeing their wider family come together, the excitement of it, and being the centre of attention.

smacl

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Completely disagree - some religious ceremonies are also very pleasant social or cultural gatherings; so why wouldn't people want to hold on to that, even without the religion.

For example - I went tolisten to a choir in London recently, Westminster Abbey. Fantastic music in a beautiful setting. So should I be saying to myself - this is fantastic music in a beautiful setting, but I'm not religious so I should leave right now......? No!

True, but then many religious ceremonies are as dull as dishwater, and few compare to a choir in Westminster. You also have to ask whether the pleasant religious ceremonious are pleasant because they're religious or pleasant in spite of being religious?

professore

smacl wrote: »

Have two girls, 'don't get it', neither of them have shown any interest whatsoever in communion or anything similar. With respect, I think these faux ceremonies basically involve paying the kids off so that the parents can show them off for the day. Take the money out of the equation and the kids would either have no interest or actively rebel against it. In my experience, young kids like to play, have fun, make a huge mess and a lot of noise, not being paraded around like barbie dolls. YMMV.

Your two girls "don't get" their little friends talking for months beforehand about the "big day", and how much money they are going to make, then flashing the cash afterwards? Really? Or are they home schooled, or go to some athiest school (if such a thing exists ... my kids went to an Educate Together and even there the majority of kids did all the catholic religious ceremonies?) Maybe your kids are unlike any kids I've ever seen. Genuinely curious.

Tiddlypeeps

daheff wrote: »

I don't understand why people who dont want to be religious go then to the trouble of celebrating religious events in a non-religious way.

People get 'married', have 'naming ceremonies' for children, celebrate christmas /easter times and now a 'civil communion'.

Surely if people are non believers then they don't do any of the religious stuff...not doing a half a la carte version of it?

Pretty much ever culture that has ever existed has various ways of celebrating various times of the year and various milestones within a persons life, such as
harvest time, midwinter, birth, coming of age, a couple joining and likely starting a family etc etc etc. Most cultures link these celebrations in some way to their various religions but not always.

Just because a person distances themselves from the religious elements of the culture they belong to doesn't mean they necessarily want to distance themselves from the celebrations associated with that culture. I don't see how wanting to take part in those celebrations is at all hypocritical.

magicbastarder

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Also, people keep referencing the money, I actually don't think its that much of a deal for the kids.

heh; when i was a kid, all the talk was 'how much money did you get?'

Tombo2001

smacl wrote: »

True, but then many religious ceremonies are as dull as dishwater, and few compare to a choir in Westminster. You also have to ask whether the pleasant religious ceremonious are pleasant because they're religious or pleasant in spite of being religious?

Which part of bouncy castle with all your cousins and then burgers from the bbq involves a religious ceremony.....

professore

magicbastarder wrote: »

heh; when i was a kid, all the talk was 'how much money did you get?'

Perhaps it's a class thing. My kids don't go round sporting the latest designer gear or iPhone and get a new one every 3 months, or bags of pocket money, so getting upwards of a grand is a BIG DEAL to them.

ABC101

mar12345 wrote: »

Hi,

My daughter who is in 2nd class will not be making her communion, so we decided to have a ceremony at home to make her feel special too. We invited friends and family, will have a bbq so she doesn't feel left out.

Have any of you done something like this? I am looking for nice texts / poems / music and songs that would be meaningful.

Any suggestions much appreciated!!!!

As a Christian, I don't feel the need to celebrate something when other denominations carry out their festivals, i.e Diwaldi, Ramadan etc.

Technically believers partake in a religious ceremony because they believe in it. If you lack belief, then it would appear odd that you would feel compelled to celebrate something too.

On the other hand I can understand your perspective about having a small celebration for your daughter so as to make it seem she is not left out.

It's only natural, while some puritan may successfully argue that you are being hypocritical, I don't think it really matters.

You are the parent of your child, and if you + family feel it would be best to have your own celebration and call it what you want, then off you go and do so. It's your own business etc Calling it a "coming of age" might be stretching it a bit, perhaps more appropriate for when they are 18 years old, but no matter.

Unfortunately a lot of things have become commercialised. Easter is no longer about the death of Jesus on the cross for mankind. Its about chocolate and holidays and rabbits.

Christmas too has become far too commercialised, nothing to do with Christ, all to do with presents and spending lots of money, peer pressure / debt / parties and lots of alcohol etc.

Communion too has become commercialised, collecting money, fancy dresses etc. One upmanship, keeping up with the Jones. I remember one chap at our confirmation talking about how his shoes would be swede and not like everybody else's which were going to be leather. However I suppose it is just part of human nature.

No sooner has one Christian celebratory date / festival passed, when the shops are instantly stocking the shelves for the next. All trying to cash in on the situation.

It has become so perverse now that it is no longer politically correct to mention what these celebratory events are actually about, but we are still expected to hand over our money and partake in being celebratory, but not to mention what it really is we are supposed to celebrate about. A bit like the contradiction, "there's a war on, but don't mention the war".

Anyway, rant over.

You are only being a parent, trying to think of your daughter and how best to cross this bridge. My advice is go out and do have a special day, enjoy yourselves and record those special moments as a family etc.

silverharp

I don't get it and I have kids. short of living on the Aran islands or something kids don't grow up in catholic bubbles by and large. Another thing at least the catholic kids have done the time and had to go to mass every Sunday , you cant just slope in at the end and collect the prizes :pac:

reason vs religion

Such brainless opposition. If you can understand why an atheist parent would celebrate Xmas, you should be able to understand the OP's motivation. If you can't, you're an idiot.

professore

I think at 8 years old a kid is too young (with some exceptions) to properly understand something like a religious ceremony and what it really means. Therefore I don't think it's right to force it upon them at that age. By the same token, I think it's also not fair to exclude them from having some sort of celebration that their friends all have for noble intellectual reasons. You can make these to the kid all you want, but at 8 they are just going along with you for the exact same reasons as the other kids go along with Sister Concepta in the communion preparations.

By all means explain the difference in what they are doing and what the other kids are doing - they may understand some or all of it but don't take it as a given. So I'd be 100% with the OP on this.

silverharp

reason vs religion wrote: »

Such brainless opposition. If you can understand why an atheist parent would celebrate Xmas, you should be able to understand the OP's motivation. If you can't, you're an idiot.

apples and oranges , xmas is part of the western "bubble" an atheist that didn't out of principle celebrate xmas as in decorate the house, give presents to the kids , have nice meal on the 24th/25th would be a right miserable git. 7 or 8 is not a particularly notable age in a kids life.
Plenty of cultures have some kind of coming of age ceremony but its a bit late in the day to start inventing a new one, it would only become commercialised bilge in short order.

Tiddlypeeps

reason vs religion wrote: »

Such brainless opposition. If you can understand why an atheist parent would celebrate Xmas, you should be able to understand the OP's motivation. If you can't, you're an idiot.

I don't agree with the opposition either, but typically "I'm right and if you think I'm wrong you're an idiot" isn't exactly a compelling argument.

smacl

Tombo2001 wrote: »

The kids are into the sense of occasion, seeing their wider family come together, the excitement of it, and being the centre of attention.

Not convinced, according to my two the main topic of conversation for most kids after these events seems to be the amount of loot gathered. Pretty much the same for Christmas, Halloween and Easter.

ABC101

smacl wrote: »

Not convinced, according to my two the main topic of conversation for most kids after these events seems to be the amount of loot gathered. Pretty much the same for Christmas, Halloween and Easter.

A unfortunate choice of words, but it did give me a chuckle!:pac:

Tiddlypeeps

silverharp wrote: »

Plenty of cultures have some kind of coming of age ceremony but its a bit late in the day to start inventing a new one.

Why do you get to make that decision on behalf of others?

Tombo2001

smacl wrote: »

Not convinced, according to my two the main topic of conversation for most kids after these events seems to be the amount of loot gathered. Pretty much the same for Christmas, Halloween and Easter.

Well if you have that view, then next Halloween, don't get them to dress up, don't get them to knock door to door with all their friends; give them a big plastic bag full of sweets and sure hey presto it will be a great occasion, that is not in anyway different to any other time they get a big bag of sweets.

Loveinapril

I grew up in a minority religion in Ireland in the 80's and 90's (Catholic schools) and didn't make my communion or conformation. It was simply explained to me that our family didn't do X or Y because that was what Catholics did and we were not catholics. It made sense to me as I understood that different families do different things. It really isn't as traumatic an experience as people make out. My husband's 9 year old neice recently asked us who will be godparents to our unborn baby. I said "noone. The baby won't have godparents. That is for people who go to church and we don't go to church". Simple, no confusion and no further questions (I didn't want to get into the atheist thing with her then). Kids are as open and as thoughtful as they are allowed to be. My religious mother-in-law looked like she was going to burst into flames when I said it, which amused me!

ABC101

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Well if you have that view, then next Halloween, don't get them to dress up, don't get them to knock door to door with all their friends; give them a big plastic bag full of sweets and sure hey presto it will be a great occasion, that is not in anyway different to any other time they get a big bag of sweets.

I remember one time I got caught out. The doorbell rang at around 7;30pm.

I only had one large bar of chocolate left. On opening the door there was a gang of 6 kids present.

I foolishly give the bar of chocolate to one of them and a mini riot started, almost turned into a free for all, with arms and hands everywhere all wrestling for the dairy milk bar.

I had to tell them to all calm down by raising my voice. On realising there was nothing more to be had as I was spent, they all bailed it asap to the next house to load up on more junk etc.

Lesson learnt, don't open the door unless one has lots of junk to dispense.

daheff

dubrov wrote: »

I think you have got this backward. There is a human desire to mark important life events (birth, childhood to adulthood, marriage, death) with a rite of passage. Religions just cater to that need.

People don't celebrate these events because of religions, religions celebrate these events because of people.

but marriage is a religious event. Its not a life event like birth/death. Its a man made thing.

dubrov wrote: »

I
Just because the OP doesn't believe in the religion it does not mean that the desire to celebrate this life stage has gone away.

What is the life stage to be celebrated?

professore wrote: »

Your two girls "don't get" their little friends talking for months beforehand about the "big day", and how much money they are going to make, then flashing the cash afterwards? Maybe your kids are unlike any kids I've ever seen. Genuinely curious.

Mine is making it in about a week...apart from talking about all the practice she is doing there are no other discussions in my house. We aren't making a big deal about it..so she isnt either.

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Pretty much every culture that has ever existed has various ways of celebrating various times of the year and various milestones within a persons life, such as
harvest time, midwinter, birth, coming of age, a couple joining and likely starting a family etc etc etc. Most cultures link these celebrations in some way to their various religions but not always.

Again what is teh life event /milestone thats being celebrated here?

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Just because a person distances themselves from the religious elements of the culture they belong to doesn't mean they necessarily want to distance themselves from the celebrations associated with that culture. I don't see how wanting to take part in those celebrations is at all hypocritical.

But marriage /communion are religious. These do not exist without religion.

smacl

professore wrote: »

Your two girls "don't get" their little friends talking for months beforehand about the "big day", and how much money they are going to make, then flashing the cash afterwards? Really? Or are they home schooled, or go to some athiest school (if such a thing exists ... my kids went to an Educate Together and even there the majority of kids did all the catholic religious ceremonies?) Maybe your kids are unlike any kids I've ever seen. Genuinely curious.

Nope. Also educate together, about half the kids did communion and the remainder didn't take too much heed of it. The communion kids also had to do extra curricular communion classes which was a big negative. Eldest is unusual in that she has never taken much interest in cash, youngest is a greedy little wench to be fair but wouldn't put up with that nonsense no matter how much you bankrolled her. Also, a wedge of cash versus seeing one of your music idols live on stage is a no-brainer, and IMHO far healthier.

ABC101

daheff wrote: »

but marriage is a religious event. Its not a life event like birth/death. Its a man made thing.

What is the life stage to be celebrated?

Mine is making it in about a week...apart from talking about all the practice she is doing there are no other discussions in my house. We aren't making a big deal about it..so she isnt either.

Again what is teh life event /milestone thats being celebrated here?


But marriage /communion are religious. These do not exist without religion.

WRT marriage I think I am going off track here. But my understanding is that Marriage is a civil contract which existed long before organised religion.

It's something which appears to be part of human nature, and no religion has a special claim on it.

Numerous religions have incorporated religious ceremonies around a marriage, but marriage does not originate from any one particular religion.

reason vs religion

silverharp wrote: »

apples and oranges , xmas is part of the western "bubble" an atheist that didn't out of principle celebrate xmas as in decorate the house, give presents to the kids , have nice meal on the 24th/25th would be a right miserable git. 7 or 8 is not a particularly notable age in a kids life.
Plenty of cultures have some kind of coming of age ceremony but its a bit late in the day to start inventing a new one, it would only become commercialised bilge in short order.

I'm not even sure why I'm responding to your illiterate inanities. Clearly, Westerns celebrate Xmas because not to do so would exclude themselves from a shared national culture; not because non-celebration is in some way intrinsically miserable - tell that to a Muslim. Within a local community, a communion can be just as significant, arguably more so. Hours of class are dedicated to preparation over several preceding months. Usually all the family and close friends are invited. Etc, etc.

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

I don't agree with the opposition either, but typically "I'm right and if you think I'm wrong you're an idiot" isn't exactly a compelling argument.

If I call a racist a bigot, they might respond likewise by saying, That's not a very convincing argument ("nah nah nahh nahh nah"). My response, as with here, would be: it's not intended to be an argument. It's very much meant as an insult. You might have noticed, however, that the first sentence is a legitimate argument by analogy.

professore

smacl wrote: »

Also, a wedge of cash versus seeing one of your music idols live on stage is a no-brainer, and IMHO far healthier.

Ahhaha bribery I see :D:D

Triceratops Ballet

daheff wrote: »

but marriage is a religious event. Its not a life event like birth/death. Its a man made thing.

But marriage /communion are religious. These do not exist without religion.

of course they do, marriage was about commerce, status and power long before religion came along. Second richest man in village wants to climb the ladder, hands his daughter over to the son of the richest man in village, their marriage cements his status!
Religions come along, look at what people do and then put a spin on it!

silverharp

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Why do you get to make that decision on behalf of others?

?? my guess is creating a collective artificial replacement coming of age tradition wouldn't fly , im not making any decision for anybody, everyone is free to make up their own family traditions, they just wouldn't have the neighbours congratulating you in the street. In the US outside of religious events the 16th Birthday is the big thing. In Ireland you have the Debs and 21st. So there are already marking stages for older kids/young adults.
All I was suggesting was there is a kind of a gap in the 12-13 age bracket where Christians have confirmation, Jews have bar mitzvah etc., the only big deal is starting secondary but I don't remember any celebrations

Chester Copperpot

Blow communion out of the water by heading to Disney land

professore

Loveinapril wrote: »

I grew up in a minority religion in Ireland in the 80's and 90's (Catholic schools) and didn't make my communion or conformation. It was simply explained to me that our family didn't do X or Y because that was what Catholics did and we were not catholics. It made sense to me as I understood that different families do different things. It really isn't as traumatic an experience as people make out. My husband's 9 year old neice recently asked us who will be godparents to our unborn baby. I said "noone. The baby won't have godparents. That is for people who go to church and we don't go to church". Simple, no confusion and no further questions (I didn't want to get into the atheist thing with her then). Kids are as open and as thoughtful as they are allowed to be. My religious mother-in-law looked like she was going to burst into flames when I said it, which amused me!

The part in bold is the difference. Atheism isn't a religion, for me at least, in that there is a dogma to be followed and a sense of "us" and "them" as you get in most religions, particularly minority religions in Ireland. It's not a badge of identity in the same way being a member of a minority religion is. There is no "community of athiests" where we all meet and agree with each other on every topic - if there were, I would run a mile from it. Not trying to attack minority religions BTW ... anyone can believe whatever they want, it's all fine by me, as long as it doesn't force me to believe in it too or follow it's rules.