Selling Privately

fifigogo

Just wondering if anyone has sold their property WITHOUT the use of an estate agent and how it went for them? I know it's not very common in Ireland to sell privately but how complicated is it really?

My brother and I have joint mortgage on a house we live in and want to sell. We were going to go through an estate agent (we've had two EAs to value the house) but as we woud have to clear the mortgage, we want to make as much as we can from the house so I was thinking of selling privately. I know we have to have the house BER certified, need our own sign, do our own advertising and have a solicitor in place for the legal side plus the viewings. It'll probably be a bit of a head ache for us to sell privately but if we can save €5k or 6k then it might be worth it.

Plasandrunt

I sold my house last via a private sale and if I could do it again I would.

I didn't have to advertise the house because it was a friend of a friend who bought it. She'd got word I was looking to sell and we came to an agreement on price. Thankfully there was no mortgage on the property so we didn't have to worry about that.

The best thing was that we were able to communicate directly with one another and not have to go through an intermediate source such as an estate agent so our minds were at ease at all times.

BigAl81

Really surprises me more people don't sell privately.

Been to a few viewings and the agents hadn't a clue.

Just stick it on daft or wherever and save a few quid!

mugsymugsy

Haven't done it myself but agree with people here. Make sure you have a decent solicitor and have it up on daft and myhome with decent photos etc best of luck with it.

Check property price register for other properties in your area and what they have sold for.

campingcarist

I sold my last property less than 2 years ago. I had it sold within 8 days (actually, the first viewing). I used Daft with a detailed description including all the things I would want to know if I was buying and plenty of photos.

Absolutely no problem at all - and I got my asking price which was about 40% more than I paid for it 2 years earlier.

bbari

Lets say there are 2/3/4 interested parties and start bidding against each other, who would you trust more when they call you to tell that your are out bidden - Agent or the private seller ? Yes we don't trust the agents much either but incase you are selling privately, potential buyer can think that the seller is making it up for the obvious reasons ? Its great if you can sell privately as you will save 1% + vat the least.

listermint

bbari wrote: »

Lets say there are 2/3/4 interested parties and start bidding against each other, who would you trust more when they call you to tell that your are out bidden - Agent or the private seller ? Yes we don't trust the agents much either but incase you are selling privately, potential buyer can think that the seller is making it up for the obvious reasons ? Its great if you can sell privately as you will save 1% + vat the least.

Trust neither tbh.

Radiant Cool Crazy Nightmare

I sold my old home last year privately, but like other posters it was a neighbours friend who approached me when they heard I was contemplating selling. Saved a lot by not involving an estate agent. If your property is in an anyway popular area I would definetley attempt to sell it privately as it coild well be worth it for the chunk of change you could save.

Lekrub

If you havent sold a car on donedeal or similar I don't think you should attempt it. But from my limited experience in this, unless your EA is below .5% it's pretty easy to do yourself. Your solicitor does all the work anyway. Handling the deposit is the tricky bit - but that also goes to your solictor if selling private

Logo

campingcarist wrote: »

I sold my last property less than 2 years ago. I had it sold within 8 days (actually, the first viewing). I used Daft with a detailed description including all the things I would want to know if I was buying and plenty of photos.
Absolutely no problem at all - and I got my asking price which was about 40% more than I paid for it 2 years earlier.

campingcarist - as a matter of interest, how much did it cost to advertise the house sale on Daft?

bbari

Logo wrote:

campingcarist - as a matter of interest, how much did it cost to advertise the house sale on Daft?

Three packages. 300, 400 and 500

daft.ie/ad-entry/sale

wordofwarning

listermint wrote: »

Trust neither tbh.

Well I know I would not buy off a private seller unless there was a significant discount. But the seller is selling for a discount off the market rate, than saving the 1% fee is false economy in the first place. Slapping up a sign and selling will not attract all potential buyers

I know some people don't trust estate agents. But if an estate agent lies about bids, they can lose their license and their livelihood. There is an incentive not for them to lie. Whereas a guy with a sign in his garden can lie left, right and centre with no recourse.

fifigogo

THe house is in a popular area and it is in very good condition. It just needs a lick of paint here and there but over all a very good property close to everything. We did have it valued last year and were told the EA fee would be around 5k+. AFter clearing the mortgage which is small, I won't have enough to buy within Dublin so I need every penny. sellityourself.ie charge €150 to advertise and you get a For Sale sign included. DAft charge around €350 to 400 and then whatever the solicitor fees are. I think I will go privately. It's not that I don't trust EAs, I would rather pocket as much of that 5k as I can.

catrionanic

fifigogo wrote: »

THe house is in a popular area and it is in very good condition. It just needs a lick of paint here and there but over all a very good property close to everything. We did have it valued last year and were told the EA fee would be around 5k+. AFter clearing the mortgage which is small, I won't have enough to buy within Dublin so I need every penny. sellityourself.ie charge €150 to advertise and you get a For Sale sign included. DAft charge around €350 to 400 and then whatever the solicitor fees are. I think I will go privately. It's not that I don't trust EAs, I would rather pocket as much of that 5k as I can.

Please keep us updated and let us know how you get on! Best of luck.

listermint

wordofwarning wrote: »

Well I know I would not buy off a private seller unless there was a significant discount. But the seller is selling for a discount off the market rate, than saving the 1% fee is false economy in the first place. Slapping up a sign and selling will not attract all potential buyers

I know some people don't trust estate agents. But if an estate agent lies about bids, they can lose their license and their livelihood. There is an incentive not for them to lie. Whereas a guy with a sign in his garden can lie left, right and centre with no recourse.

I have no trust in an agent losing any license either.

And I've no problems with buying privately. When I said trust neither it means exactly that. Do your own checks and balances just because someone has a sign over their door doesn't make them any less unscrupulous.

Logo

bbari wrote: »

Three packages. 300, 400 and 500

daft.ie/ad-entry/sale

Does anyone know if I can place an advert on myhome.ie for private house sales? I've tried the site but can't find any prices listed. Thanks

Mr. Incognito

If you have a decent Solicitor you dont need an EA imo.

The Solicitor does all the work anyway.

The Agent just shows people around and takes a booking deposit.

Logo

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

If you have a decent Solicitor you dont need an EA imo.

The Solicitor does all the work anyway.

The Agent just shows people around and takes a booking deposit.

Thanks for the info. BTW what work does a solicitor do for the seller besides taking a booking deposit - and how much does it cost the seller?

bbari

Logo wrote: »

Does anyone know if I can place an advert on myhome.ie for private house sales? I've tried the site but can't find any prices listed. Thanks

MyHome - It looks like that you can only advertise thru the agents.
I guess daft is the way to go for pvt sale ?

Logo

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

If you have a decent Solicitor you dont need an EA imo.

The Solicitor does all the work anyway.

The Agent just shows people around and takes a booking deposit.

For what purpose does a private house seller need to employ a solicitor?

mugsymugsy

Logo wrote: »

For what purpose does a private house seller need to employ a solicitor?

So the buyer raises an issue with land registry or legal stuff who is the seller going to ask.

100% decent solicitor required don't skimp on that!

Logo

mugsymugsy wrote: »

So the buyer raises an issue with land registry or legal stuff who is the seller going to ask.

100% decent solicitor required don't skimp on that!

Surely it's up to the buyer to employ a solicitor to ensure that "land registry or legal stuff" is correct?

fifigogo

catrionanic wrote: »

Please keep us updated and let us know how you get on! Best of luck.

Will do. It probably won't be until June. Just need to get some bits and pieces done, hire the solicitor and then advertise. A house on my road has already gone up for sale so it's given me a price guide.

Mr. Incognito

Logo wrote: »

For what purpose does a private house seller need to employ a solicitor?

1. To answer legal questions re title, planning, easments, lis pendens, LPT, charges, VAT clauses, special conditions, draft the contract of sale, answer requisitions on sale and pre contract enquires, review the Deed of Conveyance/ Lease, give undertakings where required.

2. Because the Bank is not stupid enough to give a purchaser money to buy a house off some moron trying to do his own legals who will not be able to transfer the legal title properly and will get absolutely run over by the purchasers solicitor and in the absence of an equally stupid purchaser for cash you will not get finance for the transaction.

Logo

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

1. To answer legal questions re title, planning, easments, lis pendens, LPT, charges, VAT clauses, special conditions, draft the contract of sale, answer requisitions on sale and pre contract enquires, review the Deed of Conveyance/ Lease, give undertakings where required.

2. Because the Bank is not stupid enough to give a purchaser money off some moron trying to do his own legals and in the absence of an equally stupid purchaser for cash you will not get finance for the transaction.

The buyer pays a solicitor to address title, planning, easments, lis pendens, LPT, charges, VAT clauses, special conditions, draft the contract of sale, answer requisitions on sale and pre contract enquires, review the Deed of Conveyance/
Lease, give undertakings where required.

The bank requires and will bill the purchaser for a Letter of Loan Approval stating the property value.

busylady

Logo wrote: »

The buyer pays a solicitor to address title, planning, easments, lis pendens, LPT, charges, VAT clauses, special conditions, draft the contract of sale, answer requisitions on sale and pre contract enquires, review the Deed of Conveyance/
Lease, give undertakings where required.

The bank requires and will bill the purchaser for a Letter of Loan Approval stating the property value.

It is the seller's solicitor who drafts the contracts, deals with special conditions, replies to pre-contract queries, replies to requisitions on title, drafts the closing declarations, explains the searches, redeems the mortgage, arranges for the mortgage to be removed from the title etc. Mr Icognito's post set it out very clearly. A purchaser's solicitor will only deal with a qualified solicitor with professional indemnity insurance, as will the bank. The bank issues a Letter of Loan Approval to the purchaser and will require a Certificate of Title from the purchaser's solicitor.

Logo

Thank you busylady and Mr. Incognito for taking the time to explain. Assuming that title, drafts closing declarations, searches etc. are fairy recent I assume that a purchaser's solicitor will be able to manoeuvre through the quagmire that's involved in the business of a house purchase, as will the bank.

Askthe EA

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

The Agent just shows people around and takes a booking deposit.

If only this were true, I wouldn't have Grey hair!

quietsailor

If you are selling privately it would be well worth your time to get YOUR solicitor to perform all the legal checks the buyers solicitor will be carrying out and make sure everything is in order and correct. Otherwise the sale can be held up on your end.

You're going to have to employ them anyway so you might as well use them to your advantage

Mr. Incognito

Logo wrote: »

Thank you busylady and Mr. Incognito for taking the time to explain. Assuming that title, drafts closing declarations, searches etc. are fairy recent I assume that a purchaser's solicitor will be able to manoeuvre through the quagmire that's involved in the business of a house purchase, as will the bank.

The purchasers solicitor will not do the sellers solicitors job for a number of reasons.

1. It's illegal to act on both sides of a conveyancing transaction and for good reason.

2. He's not selling the title. It's up to the Purchasers solicitor to make sure they have good title and draft the documents to sell it.

3. It's up to the Buyers solicitor to check that the title you are buying is good title.

4. You assume wrong.

campingcarist

Logo wrote: »

campingcarist - as a matter of interest, how much did it cost to advertise the house sale on Daft?

As far as I remember, it didn't cost me anything - I used the cheapest version on daft. However, the site is not that straight forward and I had to make several attempts before I got my ad on-line.
Little indication as to when you have to do certain things - my first attempt I wasn't ready with my photos (they were still in my camera and not on my computer).

As the booking deposit is refundable if seller pulls out, I didn;t bother with the deposit. I also bought the property from someone who was selling privately and he didn't bother with the deposit either.

4ensic15

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

The Agent just shows people around and takes a booking deposit.

Who values the property, decides on the marketing strategy, negotiates the price and deals with queries from purchasers architects and solicitors?

jsd1004

wordofwarning wrote: »

Well I know I would not buy off a private seller unless there was a significant discount. But the seller is selling for a discount off the market rate, than saving the 1% fee is false economy in the first place. Slapping up a sign and selling will not attract all potential buyers

I know some people don't trust estate agents. But if an estate agent lies about bids, they can lose their license and their livelihood. There is an incentive not for them to lie. Whereas a guy with a sign in his garden can lie left, right and centre with no recourse.

This makes no sense. A seller generally knows exactly what his house is worth. Much more so than any estate agent. He does not need to lie about bids in a rising market. Why lie and risk losing an interested party?
I have sold privately and it was painless and got well over the last registered house sale in the area.

This is how its done.

Advertise your house( daft.ie 300euro) at 20% below the market rate to get interest.
Get a professional photographer to take pictures and script a good ad with all the amenities and attributes of your property. (You know these better than any estate agent)

Arrange viewings either individually or an open viewing where you show your property to multiple viewers at a set date and time. Auctioneers love this one because it cuts down their work load.

Start accepting bids and go to each interested party and relay the bid to them.

If you like you can request proof of funds or mortgage approval for people to bid.

Once the highest bid is received you decide if you would like to accept it.
If you do you instruct the buyer to lodge a deposit (usually 5k) with your solicitor and then the sale is sale agreed subject to contract and the solicitor handles the rest.

There is a possibility the sale will fall through for many reasons but this is the same as a sale agreed through an agent.

Buyers usually prefer to buy privately as well. They get your direct line so communication is easy, and you are available after hours and weekends if you choose. You can answer questions that estate agents wont have a clue about, eg. who are the neighbours? when was the boiler last serviced? What specific contents are included? Whats the broadband like?

listermint

4ensic15 wrote: »

Who values the property, decides on the marketing strategy, negotiates the price and deals with queries from purchasers architects and solicitors?

The seller

1641

Maybe I am very atypical, but as a fairly recent purchaser I ignored all private ads (never even went to view). Decided there was a high chance of "messing" and hidden "issues". Totally irrational, I am sure. But if moving again tomorrow I would do the same.

jsd1004

1641 wrote: »

Maybe I am very atypical, but as a fairly recent purchaser I ignored all private ads (never even went to view). Decided there was a high chance of "messing" and hidden "issues". Totally irrational, I am sure. But if moving again tomorrow I would do the same.

A seller can also list with an agent and also sell privately themselves. Let the agent know you are selling it privately as well. Works the same as selling with multiple agents.

Claw Hammer

listermint wrote: »

The seller

Not every seller ( In fact the majority do not) has the skill or the detachment to do the work of selling their own property. The assumption that an inexperienced novice will be able to achieve the same price as a hardened negotiator is laughable.
Dealing with messer purchasers is another task that the DIY seller will have no experience of.

heroics

I recently sold my property through private sale. Absolutely no problems easy to do. Solicitor did most of the work anyway. I arranged viewings and for buyers surveyor/engineer etc was no problem really.

Saved about 1.5% which is what estate agents were looking for.

In the process of buying a new house and would not believe a single word of what the estate agents are saying. We have been messed around by estate agents on the last 2 houses that we tried to buy.

Logo

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

The purchasers solicitor will not do the sellers solicitors job for a number of reasons.

1. It's illegal to act on both sides of a conveyancing transaction and for good reason.

2. He's not selling the title. It's up to the Purchasers solicitor to make sure they have good title and draft the documents to sell it.

3. It's up to the Buyers solicitor to check that the title you are buying is good title.

4. You assume wrong.

I assume that this legal work is a cost that is required for all property sales and is not included in the estate agent fees?

Logo

heroics wrote: »

I recently sold my property through private sale. Absolutely no problems easy to do. Solicitor did most of the work anyway. I arranged viewings and for buyers surveyor/engineer etc was no problem really.

Saved about 1.5% which is what estate agents were looking for.

Just as a matter of interest what were the solicitor costs i.e. was it a fixed fee or a percentage of the property price? Thanks

Logo

1641 wrote: »

Maybe I am very atypical, but as a fairly recent purchaser I ignored all private ads (never even went to view). Decided there was a high chance of "messing" and hidden "issues". Totally irrational, I am sure. But if moving again tomorrow I would do the same.

Yep 1641 I reckon that you'd be an atypical purchaser (or else an estate agent).

jsd1004

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Not every seller ( In fact the majority do not) has the skill or the detachment to do the work of selling their own property. The assumption that an inexperienced novice will be able to achieve the same price as a hardened negotiator is laughable.
Dealing with messer purchasers is another task that the DIY seller will have no experience of.

Hahahaha. And an estate agent does.. An estate agent does not care about the sale price of the property. Just wants to achieve a sale, the difference between an estate agent gaining an extra 10k is 150 euro. Not worth their while. A private seller will always achieve more than an estate agent if they have any modicom of interest in the sale of their property.
There is no way to deal with 'messer purchasers' except to ask for mortgage approval or proof of funds. A bid is not legally binding either way until contracts are signed even with a proof of funds or mortgage approval.

As an example just last week I bid on a property from an agent..5 % less than asking. I would have been prepared to go over asking. I called last week and eventually got a receptionist. (several messages usual bull with no returned calls). There was an offer of asking price. Rang again today to be told it was sale agreed. Agent never called me to see if i was interested before he sale agreed it. I would have paid at least 30k more but never got the opportunity. They would not give me the sale agreed price but said it was a little over asking.

jsd1004

Logo wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest what were the solicitor costs i.e. was it a fixed fee or a percentage of the property price? Thanks

If its a % of property price you need to find a new solicitor.

1641

Logo wrote: »

Yep 1641 I reckon that you'd be an atypical purchaser (or else an estate agent).

Perhaps I am very atypical, Logo - I dunno. But I am certainly not an Estate Agent, or connected in any way.

heroics

Logo wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest what were the solicitor costs i.e. was it a fixed fee or a percentage of the property price? Thanks

It was a fixed price 1350 I think + land registry fees from what I remember

4ensic15

jsd1004 wrote: »

Hahahaha. And an estate agent does.. An estate agent does not care about the sale price of the property. Just wants to achieve a sale, the difference between an estate agent gaining an extra 10k is 150 euro. Not worth their while. A private seller will always achieve more than an estate agent if they have any modicom of interest in the sale of their property.
.

An estate agent wants to get the next house in the area to sell. Selling under value is going to harm his chances. Asking for proof of funds will not stop all messer purchasers. You failed to get a house, possibly because you were seen a messer.
The owner of a house is often thye last person who can value it accurately even if the owner is an estate agent. The owner has too much of an emotional stake in the property.

jsd1004

4ensic15 wrote: »

An estate agent wants to get the next house in the area to sell. Selling under value is going to harm his chances. Asking for proof of funds will not stop all messer purchasers. You failed to get a house, possibly because you were seen a messer.
The owner of a house is often thye last person who can value it accurately even if the owner is an estate agent. The owner has too much of an emotional stake in the property.

Are you an estate agent by any chance?

The 'valuation' of a house is nothing. The price someone is willing to pay is determined in the bidding process and the seller or estate agent has no control over this. It is better to undervalue a house for the sole reason of getting people interested in a bargain which usually leads to a higher sale price.

Best advice to sellers out there is to attempt to sell it themselves if they have the time or interest, engage an estate agent as well in tandem on a no win no fee basis and if they achieve a higher price after their commision is included than you have a result.

My experience is a private seller will be able to answer a call immediately, arrange a viewing at short notice or weekends, answer any questions immediately and generally not experience all the frustrations of dealing with the majority of agents.

I doubt i would be considered a 'messer' as i am a professional landlord with multiple properties in the area in question and a cash buyer with proof of funds. I since sale agreed a house down the road through a different agent at i guess more than that house achieved. I am tempted to call to the owners of the other house and let them know my experience and see how their experience was with their agent. I am sure they would be raging if they knew a cash buyer was interested at higher than asking and was not actively pursued.

Grumpypants

I bought 2 years ago but had been looking for 18 months before that. So this was 2013-2015, and not in a city, before things started going crazy, so you would have expected EA's to be banging our door down.

From the carry on of them we encountered, I can't figure out what value they add. If anything they cost people sales as we refused to look at further houses from those agents.

We spent 18months in a nightmare.

They won't return calls/messages.
Cant be arsed showing up to viewings. One said the key is under a rock have a look yourselves. Got there to a building site with 200 rocks and no key.
No replies to actual offers.
Would only show a house if we could make it there in 20 mins as he had to collect the kids at 3.
Would not take an offer without showing it to "the husband" (me). Because women who make offers change their minds.
Loads of empty promises/outright lies.
Sold properties in the window/daft listed as available. I thought this was so you would ring and they could show the house down the road but id just get a "that's sale agreed" and they would hang up.

We finally got a viewing and by chance the owner happened to be there fixing something.

Ten mins chatting with the owner we had a fair price agreed, with both parties very happy. Sale was all done and dusted, our solicitor sent his solicitor the deposit and final payment, and 4 weeks later we moved in. Estate Agent did nothing.

If i was selling again i would pop it on daft. Organize viewings for a saturday and be there to talk to anyone coming.

Have a fair price in mind and if you get it, accept it. Dont get into the "other couple bid 2 grand more" nonsense. In lots of cases people get carried away bid 5-10 grand too far and can't afford it. When they drop out the initial bid you wanted has been taken off the table because of all the shenanigans and you have to start again.

Once you get an agreed price the deposit goes to your solicitor and they handle the sale. The estate agent doesnt handle any of the complex stuff.

athtrasna

Claw Hammer and JSD1004 do not post on this thread again.

Mod

heroics

Grumpypants wrote: »

From the carry on of them we encountered, I can't figure out what value they add. If anything they cost people sales as we refused to look at further houses from those agents.

We spent 18months in a nightmare.

They won't return calls/messages.
Cant be arsed showing up to viewings. One said the key is under a rock have a look yourselves. Got there to a building site with 200 rocks and no key.
No replies to actual offers.
Would only show a house if we could make it there in 20 mins as he had to collect the kids at 3.
Would not take an offer without showing it to "the husband" (me). Because women who make offers change their minds.
Loads of empty promises/outright lies.
Sold properties in the window/daft listed as available. I thought this was so you would ring and they could show the house down the road but id just get a "that's sale agreed" and they would hang up.

Same kind of thing happened to me with my last house. We were looking at houses ~500k and it was like they couldn't be bothered. Walked away from 2 because of the EA messing around.

Refused to use an EA when selling my own because I could not see any value that they add.

Mother in Law selling her place at the moment and I was amazed at the lack of professionalism of the estate agents that were calling to value/put in a proposal. House worth 1.5-2 million in a desirable area. You would think they would be doing their best to get the business.

Couple of examples:
Not showing up at agreed time with no contact
Different EA Rang to say they were outside for the meeting we knew nothing about. Apparently their office was supposed to contact us.
Sent us the proposal for a completely different property. (this one wanted 1.8% of hse price as well)
Sent right proposal but addressed to different name.

These were all well known estate agents as well.

1641

Grumpypants wrote: »

We finally got a viewing and by chance the owner happened to be there fixing something.

Ten mins chatting with the owner we had a fair price agreed, with both parties very happy. Sale was all done and dusted, our solicitor sent his solicitor the deposit and final payment, and 4 weeks later we moved in. Estate Agent did nothing.

Interesting - But are you suggesting that the Vendor did not have to pay the Estate Agent's commission in this case ? I thought that under the usual contract the Estate Agent is entitled to the commission if they "introduce" the buyer to the property ?

jsd1004 wrote: »

Best advice to sellers out there is to attempt to sell it themselves if they have the time or interest, engage an estate agent as well in tandem on a no win no fee basis and if they achieve a higher price after their commision is included than you have a result.

I thought that the vendor's engagement with the Estate Agent is generally on a no-win, no-fee basis (apart from advertising costs) ? I would be surprised if many Estate Agent's would be willing to engage with you on the basis you suggest here (unless the truly desperate). And if they did, it would be just one of the examples of a "messy situation" that I would want to avoid.