can a bar request purchase of certain item to use card?

Lau2976

Can a bar request that you buy a certain item, say a bag of nuts, to pay using card? And could this be enforced if no sign is displayed and no prior warning is given until after the other items have already been consumed?

Thanks

davo10

Lau2976 wrote: »

Can a bar request that you buy a certain item, say a bag of nuts, to pay using card? And could this be enforced if no sign is displayed and no prior warning is given until after the other items have already been consumed?

Thanks

Are you saying you have to buy nuts, or are you saying that the bar will not accept card payment below a certain threshold (say €10 minuimum) and you had to buy the nuts to reach that threshold?

TheChizler

davo10 wrote: »

Are you saying you have to buy nuts, or are you saying that the bar will not accept card payment below a certain threshold (say €10 minuimum) and you had to buy the nuts to reach that threshold?

Neither of which would be acceptable to the terminal issuer.

davo10

TheChizler wrote: »

Neither of which would be acceptable to the terminal issuer.

Terminal issuers do like receiver fees though, has a issuer ever removed a card machine based on the minimum spend policy?

jimmycrackcorm

There is no obligation to accept card payments. Cards aren't legal tender. Minimum amounts are common enough and banks don't object to this given the fees involved. They do kick up a fuss if a retailer sticks on additional charges for card payments.

Bottom line the retailer didn't have top accept the card and OP would still have to pay for what they ordered.

jcd5971

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

Bottom line the retailer didn't have top accept the card and OP would still Jane to pay for what they ordered.

That's very unfair on Jane what if she only had some nuts.

Skatedude

jcd5971 wrote: »

That's very unfair on Jane what if she only had some nuts.

then the bar would be selling at a loss due to transaction fee's. Hardly fair either .

Pelvis

Skatedude wrote: »

then the bar would be selling at a loss due to transaction fee's. Hardly fair either .

I highly doubt the bar would be selling at a loss.

Yourself isit

I read the op as saying that the customer was required to use a card to buy nuts, but only nuts (or something similar).

That's how it is phrased.

ED E

Yourself isit wrote: »

I read the op as saying that the customer was required to use a card to buy nuts, but only nuts (or something similar).

That's how it is phrased.

This.

Dravokivich

Yourself isit wrote: »

I read the op as saying that the customer was required to use a card to buy nuts, but only nuts (or something similar).

That's how it is phrased.

It appears to me that the op is being requested to purchase an additional item. Nuts were a suggestion. Confectionary is usually suggested in shops who are doing a low value sale through a card transaction.

HeidiHeidi

Lau2976 wrote: »

Can a bar request that you buy a certain item, say a bag of nuts, to pay using card? And could this be enforced if no sign is displayed and no prior warning is given until after the other items have already been consumed?

Thanks

Yourself isit wrote: »

I read the op as saying that the customer was required to use a card to buy nuts, but only nuts (or something similar).

That's how it is phrased.

But then what' are the "other items" referred to in the OP?

The whole question makes no sense to me, OP needs to clarify.

It clearly refers to some incident that happened, why can't they just tell us what happened and then ask the question?

davo10

Yourself isit wrote: »

I read the op as saying that the customer was required to use a card to buy nuts, but only nuts (or something similar).

That's how it is phrased.

Highly doubtful, what if customer had nut allergy? Bet this is to do with minimum spend, which is very common practice.

emo72

I'm lost. The op could certainly be phrased better.

Sofiztikated

davo10 wrote: »

Highly doubtful, what if customer had nut allergy? Bet this is to do with minimum spend, which is very common practice.

I'm guessing this was a minimum spend. 2 pints come to €9.40. "D'you fancy a bag of nuts to bring it to over a tenner?"

rubadub

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

, why can't they just tell us what happened and then ask the question?

You're in consumer issues now, land of the vague. The crosaire cryptic crossword is easier at times.

My guess is "other items have already been consumed" means they took a sip of their drinks.

For some reason people feel the need to sound like a cringeworthy garda.

xabi

I tried to pay a garage using debit card for some items that came to 9 euro or so, was told minimum spend was 10, I begrudgingly took their advice to buy a scratch card to bring th total up. Won 20 quid on it.

Lau2976

Apologies if the post was unclear.

The bartender said that the purchase had to be a certain item, not a minimum charge. I'm aware of that charge and had already met it. The nuts were just an example

davo10

Lau2976 wrote: »

Apologies if the post was unclear.

The bartender said that the purchase had to be a certain item, not a minimum charge. I'm aware of that charge and had already met it. The nuts were just an example

Was this requirement to buy the certain item part of promotion or dicount you were availing of? If not, and you have met the minimum spend, it makes no sense.

Why don't you just give us the full information leaving out the name of the bar, what did you have to buy and why did they say you had to buy it?. Drip feeding info just pisses everyone off.

HeidiHeidi

Lau2976 wrote: »

Apologies if the post was unclear.

The bartender said that the purchase had to be a certain item, not a minimum charge. I'm aware of that charge and had already met it. The nuts were just an example

That hasn't made your question any clearer at all!

To me anyhow.

Lau2976

I purchased non alcoholic drinks at a bar. Went to pay for them, having well met the minimum €10 to pay on card and was told to use card I had to buy at least one pint of any alcoholic drink.

davo10

Lau2976 wrote: »

I purchased non alcoholic drinks at a bar. Went to pay for them, having well met the minimum €10 to pay on card and was told to use card I had to buy at least one pint of any alcoholic drink.

Why didn't you just put that as your opening post?

That is a crap policy by the bar, it's not illegal because they don't have to accept card payments at all, but it's a crap policy.

TheChizler

It fairness I think the opening post is totally clear. It's just bizarre that the bar would do this.

368100

I don't get minimum spend or additional fee policies.......the transaction fee is much less than the comparable cash lodgement or coin exchange fee in a bank so retailers should be encouraging card payments.....unless of course not all the takings are going through the books

rubadub

TheChizler wrote: »

It fairness I think the opening post is totally clear. It's just bizarre that the bar would do this.

It is not clear at all, first they spoke of nuts, now its specifically 1 pint of alcohol, not halfs, not spirits (often more profitable)... If they did force you to buy nuts, rather than a min spend, then I would think it extremely odd. But snacks are usually a very high margin item in pubs, so I did consider it might be the case and that instead of asking for a 50cent surcharge they got their 50cent (or more) back by the sale of a pack of nuts or crisps. I say "or crisps" as many are allergic to nuts.

You might see newsagents etc exclude very low profit items from their limits, like cigarettes or lottery tickets.

Lau2976 wrote: »

I purchased non alcoholic drinks at a bar. Went to pay for them, having well met the minimum ?10 to pay on card and was told to use card I had to buy at least one pint of any alcoholic drink.

I am still confused as to what was going on, and still feel you are holding back info. You say there was a 10 euro minimum spend, was this on a notice in the pub? what were the drinks you bought? how much were you over the 10 euro limit. How long were you in the pub? how many of you?

i.e. do you think there is anything unusual you were doing that you are purposely leaving out. e.g. I have seen teams of foreign students taking over large sections of a pub near me, many not drinking and others sipping soft drinks for hours.

Was their any signage about this "one point of alcoholic drink", as most soft drinks are more profitable for them I would have thought they would want you drinking them. And seems very odd to be forcing alcohol upon people, what if nobody in the group drank? or were all driving?

368100 wrote: »

I don't get minimum spend or additional fee policies.......the transaction fee is much less than the comparable cash lodgement or coin exchange fee in a bank so retailers should be encouraging card payments.

several posters have been on before saying its not always the case, it can go either way, some are paying a lot more for CC transactions than others, and I guess CC and DD cards would be different. I guess the coin exchange fees can vary a lot too.

Skatedude

368100 wrote: »

I don't get minimum spend or additional fee policies.......the transaction fee is much less than the comparable cash lodgement or coin exchange fee in a bank so retailers should be encouraging card payments.....unless of course not all the takings are going through the books

I dont think so as the retailer has to pay a transaction fee for EVERY card sale, There is only a single fee for cash or coin lodgement which will consist of probably hundreds of transactions.

So if you buy some thing for cash for under a tenner, then the profits can go to the company. But if you pay by card, then the transaction fee the bank charges can be more than the profit made so the bar or shop has made a loss on the sale.
Companies have to pay a fixed minimum fee for taking a card sale, at some point the fee is more than the profit

CIARAN_BOYLE

Skatedude wrote: »

I dont think so as the retailer has to pay a transaction fee for EVERY card sale, There is only a single fee for cash or coin lodgement which will consist of probably hundreds of transactions.

What's more they may be able to pay suppliers in cash and lower the transaction fee.

Lau2976

rubadub wrote: »

I am still confused as to what was going on, and still feel you are holding back info. You say there was a 10 euro minimum spend, was this on a notice in the pub? what were the drinks you bought? how much were you over the 10 euro limit. How long were you in the pub? how many of you?

i.e. do you think there is anything unusual you were doing that you are purposely leaving out. e.g. I have seen teams of foreign students taking over large sections of a pub near me, many not drinking and others sipping soft drinks for hours.

Was their any signage about this "one point of alcoholic drink", as most soft drinks are more profitable for them I would have thought they would want you drinking them. And seems very odd to be forcing alcohol upon people, what if nobody in the group drank? or were all driving?

I haven't held back anything, there was four of us and we were there about an hour and a half, probably a bit less, others had gotten food, I was just drinking. I was paying for myself and someone else and spent around 30, so well over the 10 that as I already said I knew about. The minimum spend was posted, the other clause was not.

Although really don't see what any of that has to do with my original question, which imo is exactly the same as I posted originally. Also imo it's been answered, a business can put a clause on paying with card as they don't have to accept card payment. It's really not something that I'm that bothered about tbh, I paid with cash in the end, I was just curious as to whether this was allowed. It's not good business practice and I won't be going back as I don't drink alcohol and prefer dealing with card.

368100

Skatedude wrote: »

368100 wrote: »

I don't get minimum spend or additional fee policies.......the transaction fee is much less than the comparable cash lodgement or coin exchange fee in a bank so retailers should be encouraging card payments.....unless of course not all the takings are going through the books

I dont think so as the retailer has to pay a transaction fee for EVERY card sale, There is only a single fee for cash or coin lodgement which will consist of probably hundreds of transactions.

So if you buy some thing for cash for under a tenner, then the profits can go to the company. But if you pay by card, then the transaction fee the bank charges can be more than the profit made so the bar or shop has made a loss on the sale.
Companies have to pay a fixed minimum fee for taking a card sale, at some point the fee is more than the profit

I think you'll find that bank charge an amount per €100 lodged and per €100 exchanged in the case of coin.

TheChizler

368100 wrote: »

I think you'll find that bank charge an amount per €100 lodged and per €100 exchanged in the case of coin.

About 0.5% when I used to be doing it. On par with contactless, depending on your merchant services agreement.

368100

TheChizler wrote: »

368100 wrote: »

I think you'll find that bank charge an amount per €100 lodged and per €100 exchanged in the case of coin.

About 0.5% when I used to be doing it. On par with contactless, depending on your merchant services agreement.

Exactly.. ..so with no cost saving when contactless is used.....where is the rationale in imposing a minimum spend or additional charges? I think some retailers are uninformed about the fees that their bank actually charge

jimmycrackcorm

jcd5971 wrote:

That's very unfair on Jane what if she only had some nuts.

Jane is a lucky girl then.

CeilingFly

368100 wrote: »

I don't get minimum spend or additional fee policies.......the transaction fee is much less than the comparable cash lodgement or coin exchange fee in a bank so retailers should be encouraging card payments.

Correct

Skatedude wrote: »

I dont think so as the retailer has to pay a transaction fee for EVERY card sale, There is only a single fee for cash or coin lodgement which will consist of probably hundreds of transactions.

Nope - all a percentage of the transaction amount

TheChizler wrote: »

About 0.5% when I used to be doing it. On par with contactless, depending on your merchant services agreement.

Coin 2.45%, cash notes 0.45%, Debit card 0.35% (may be higher for some places but should not be above 0.7%), Credit Card 0.6% - 1.2% depending on volume. Corporate cards extra 0.5%. (I worked for a merchant provider for a while)

Considering the time and effort needed for counting and lodging cash, most retailers should prefer cards especially debit cards.

Main issue is that many retailers don't realise that card charges have dropped (automatically) and cash lodgement charges have increased. If they actually analysed the costs they'd be charging extra for taking cash.

Lux23

I don't mind minimum spends on cards as long as there is a sign highlighting the shop's policy so I can choose to go elsewhere. As far as consumer legislation goes this is probably the only possible breach but they still probably get away with it by telling you at the checkout. The other thing is that the transaction fee should not be more than what it would cost the shop to carry out the transaction. I have been charged 25c to €1 and there is no way that traders are paying that much on each transaction.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

blue note

Another possibility is that the kitchen and bar might be run separately and for the bar to use their credit card terminal there would have to be some crossover of sales. So if the OP got two coffees and two cakes the price might have been €14 so well in excess of any minimum spend, but all the items might have come from the caterers. I can think of two places off the top of my head where the kitchen and bar operate separately and I can't fully remember how I pay for the different things - maybe sometimes the waiting staff will separate it themselves for me, maybe sometimes I've paid at the two different tills.

I wonder if something like this happened and the barman just didn't explain it properly.

Stone Deaf 4evr

If retailers have a 'minimum spend' policy with regards to cards, they'd better have a big sign up saying same or I'm off out the door. If you've got the visa/mastercard logos on the door going into the shop, then as far as I'm concerned its game on unless you clearly indicate otherwise.

I've walked away from a service station leaving 3 freshly brewed coffees still on the counter over this, I'm not going buying some random rubbish just to push it over their arbitrary threshold. If aldi can can charge under a euro to a card and not create a fuss, I cant see why its not the case everywhere else.

CeilingFly

Fred Swanson wrote: »

It has been thrashed out here many times about how much retailers pay to take cards.

Typical costs would be Debit cards a flat 25 cent fee regardless of amount. Credit cards can be up to 2.5% of the value.

.

That would have been the case 2 years ago.

Budget 2015 brought in lower termination costs. All merchant providers changed how they charge.

A small retailer should not be paying over 0,6% for debit cards and 1.25% for credit cards.

If they are, one phonecall to the many merchant providers will get them those rates.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

harr

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

If retailers have a 'minimum spend' policy with regards to cards, they'd better have a big sign up saying same or I'm off out the door. If you've got the visa/mastercard logos on the door going into the shop, then as far as I'm concerned its game on unless you clearly indicate otherwise.

I've walked away from a service station leaving 3 freshly brewed coffees still on the counter over this, I'm not going buying some random rubbish just to push it over their arbitrary threshold. If aldi can can charge under a euro to a card and not create a fuss, I cant see why its not the case everywhere else.

Because as you have been told before the likes of aldi and the bigger supermarkets pay substantially less fees than your typical corner shop or independent forecourt..
It doesn't make Financial sense to let someone pay for very small items using card payments...I don't see how some people can't get that point.

TheChizler

harr wrote: »

Because as you have been told before the likes of aldi and the bigger supermarkets pay substantially less fees than your typical corner shop or independent forecourt..
It doesn't make Financial sense to let someone pay for very small items using card payments...I don't see how some people can't get that point.

Makes far more sense than being paid in coin.

Sleeper12

It used to be illegal to give credit on alcohol and as far as I know it still is. I've often wondered if credit cards are actually illegal when buying alcohol.

Sleeper12

25c per transaction on debit cards in the norm from most merchant accounts so I can see how some business have a minimum spend

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

NRR

harr wrote: »

Because as you have been told before the likes of aldi and the bigger supermarkets pay substantially less fees than your typical corner shop or independent forecourt..
It doesn't make Financial sense to let someone pay for very small items using card payments...I don't see how some people can't get that point.

Perhaps if you're talking items under 1 or 2 EUR, but ultimately, this is a (potentially unfortunate, depending how you look at it) cost of doing business.

Coming from outside Ireland myself, I was initially shocked at how many businesses don't accept card or only begrudgingly accept card payments here. Suppose it's easier to evade the tax man that way though!

CeilingFly

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Sleeper12 wrote: »

25c per transaction on debit cards in the norm from most merchant accounts so I can see how some business have a minimum spend

Not anymore. The norm is now a % and a very low one at that.

The idea was to make contactless transactions cheaper than cash and in most cases it is.

I think Elavon were the last to change to a percentage figure about 10 months ago. Barclaycard, First data & Worldpay have been doing percentage since before January 2016.

As above, any reasonable volume and you'd be under 0.4% for debit card - resonable volume would be just 15k a month in card payments. High voilume and you'll get 0.3%

Possibly some places that sell high value items have kept a per transaction fee, but the norm is now a %.

As I said, I worked for a while with one of the merchant providers.

Lau2976

Just a quick update, one of the friends I was with queried it with the manager because he was also told the same when paying and was told he had been given wrong information by the bar staff.

She said that no sick policy existed and that he may have confused it with the minimum charge. I'm not really sure how he'd mix it up that much but I'm not really that bothered. I still probably won't be returning.