€ 170,000 to invest in a business or investment

frankie1007

Hi All , Anyone any ideas where to invest € 170,000 ie , in a business or an investment account , Cheers

Graham

frankie1007 wrote: »

Hi All , Anyone any ideas where to invest € 170,000 ie , in a business or an investment account , Cheers

Almost certainly, keep it in the bank.

Or Vegas, put the whole lot on black.

Seriously though, if you think you've given anything like enough information for people to be able to give you realistic advice. The right answer is almost certainly keep it in the bank.

L.Jenkins

In my own opinion, seek out a financial adviser. I wouldn't throw that sort of money at any old business, start up or well established for that matter.

frankie1007

Cheers thanks ill do that

StupidLikeAFox

What are you hoping to get out of it? A % return per year, a % of the business, a hands on role etc?

frankie1007

Hi , Thanks for the reply , I was hoping for a yearly return , but not sure what to do ,
Cheers

wordofwarning

How long do you want to lock it up for? Are you a high income earner?

If you want to lock it up for 4 years plus and you are a high income earner. The EIIS scheme might be attractive to you. It is tax saving scheme, but carries some risk.

frankie1007

Cheers , no not a high earner, but could tie it up for 4 years , ill check it out , Thanks

L.Jenkins

Would you consider a low to medium risk investment fund with the likes of BOI, AIB or the likes?

Graham

You might be better off posting in the Investments & Markets forum (or asking a mod to move this post).

You will probably be asked what you're hoping to achieve (income/capital appreciation) and what sort of risk your prepared to accept (higher risk usually equals greater potential return but bigger chance of losing it all).

frankie1007

cheers , Thanks for your thoughts , will try

mrawkward

http://www.property.ie/commercial-property/Unit-17a1-Mulcahy-Keane-Industrial-Estate-Walkinstown-Dublin-12/319197/

Nice return from a real asset!

frankie1007

Thanks ill have a look at it , Cheers

BailMeOut

open a Davy account and diversify the €170k over 10-20 different positions and industries over a period of time (do not rush this). There are some really good Irish stocks at moment, example Glanbia, Kerry, CRH, Ryanair, Kingspan, etc.. and balance these with some mutual funds and bonds. Day to day some will be up and others will be down but over time and if you make wise decisions you should see growth. By doing all this yourself you will become very educated and knowledgeable in the market and over time you will be able good risk/reward decisions.

(PS: this is what I do and my returns are quite good)

mrawkward

With the ISEQ having risen by 50% over the past 18 months or so and prices now at post crash highs plus Brexit looming etc...equities are a brave move right now, imo. Trading costs and account fees etc all add up. My returns were rather poor compared to the commercial only investment property portfolio I now hold, by a factor of three!!

frankie1007

Thanks guys you are being very helpful , Cheers

lightoffshore

I'm presuming you don't need the money for 5 plus years.

Choose a % split of stocks and bonds and invest via mutual funds or etfs instead of trying to pick individual stocks. It's a mugs game. Take a long term view.

Whatever you do, don't use Davy etc. Their fees are an absolute disgrace. They actually charge you more if you choose your own stocks/fundss (execution account), and take a minimum annually no matter what. Ireland in particular has no good brokers.

As you have a sizeable sum you could consider using Interactive Brokers. Super low transaction fees and access to the lowest expense funds in the world (vanguard in particular). Fill out a W8-BEN to avoid being taxed in the US (as you're not a resident there).

IMO the worst place you can leave your money as an investment, is a bank. No return with today's interest rates. We're back to inflation now so you're losing money on an annual basis.

That said, stocks seem very over valued, particularly if trumpy doesn't get the tax reforms through, so waiting a while to drop money in might be no harm. Overall if you invest in total in chunks, over time, and leave it there for 10 years plus you should do well

frankie1007

Very good advice , Thank you for that , Cheers

ironclaw

I sent you a PM frankie1007.

Niallof9

Hi my friend yes please email me and your details at princejohnwugami@iwilltakecareofyourmoney.ng and i will talk you through some options.

dublinbando

If I was you I would buy an apartment in Dublin and lease it out for €1,000+ per month, then deposit this into a high interest savings account or invest in stocks and bonds.

Your yield from the rental income alone would be ~8% while property prices are rising and then reinvesting the rental income in a savings account could get you another 3% interest on that.

Not sure what kind of return you could expect on stocks and bonds but I think a savings account with 3% interest has a limit like 50k or something so you could then move to stocks and bonds after maxing out the savings?

Boarder81

I'd looked into Linked Finance. You can contribute (or part contribute) to a Business requiring a loan which in turn can generate a much higher return (8-10%) depending on the business

frankie1007

Cheers thanks for your thoughts

danko82

very interesting discussion.

Have you thought about to buy a house and rent it?
a rent in the same house you live , Up to 14k should be without taxes.

BailMeOut

danko82 wrote: »

very interesting discussion.

Have you thought about to buy a house and rent it?
a rent in the same house you live , Up to 14k should be without taxes.

Why is buying a house and renting it out is the default investment advice in this country? We really do need to get beyond only thinking about property as the only thing one should be pumping their money into.

ironclaw

BailMeOut wrote: »

Why is buying a house and renting it out is the default investment advice in this country? We really do need to get beyond only thinking about property as the only thing one should be pumping their money into.

I'd tend to agree given the current rent situation. Like the housing bubble for the early 2000s, it can't continue and at some point has to give. That said, getting new houses built is currently on the go slow, so you're still ahead of the game. Had I the money, I'd be making such an investment now as the timing is closing to get on the 'pyramid' in my eyes. I'd also be lining up a sundry avenue e.g. I'd be buying a house near a hospital, business park or university so you always have tenants. I'll never forget my time in UCD as the financial crisis hit rock bottom, two houses outside the gate probably went for a combined total of €300k or so. By now I'd wager you would have got 5 times back out of them with a straight sell, or you'd be comfortably supported on the combined rent from students.

Alternatively, I'd be mirroring similar enterprises in on the continent and setting up clever smaller units in a single house for rent.

mrawkward

I have never been able to make any financial sense out of investing in residential property as a long term imnvestment. The taxation regime is unfair and penalises where it should encourage the provision of such in a market starved of supply. Most small investors are getting out, if they can afford it!! The law and legal process favours the tenant to such an extreme degree that they can do whatever they like, pay or not pay at will, wreck your property and you get to carry all losses. You are liable to pay for legal and letting fees, repairs, service charges and property tax on rental units etc etc. Of course there are good tenants but with minimal returns (rarely more than 5% gross before tax) it is up there with investing in holiday rentals in Bulgaria, Turkey and the like. As a nation, we do appear to have a very unhealthy need to own property despite the well publicised poor investment returns that are available. I blame Cromwell.

Im looking at coming back to Ireland to start doing real estate projects there instead of overseas as everything my research is pointing to is telling me the market is going to continue upwards.
While I don't know much about the landlord situation in terms of taxes and so on and that isn't my game, the capital appreciation on house prices I believe is going to keep going.

The fundamental of demand outweighing supply is the overriding factor - the thing is NAMA put most of the Irish developers out of business, even if they were able to service the loans, they were still denied the ability to do this. It was like a blanket demonization of developers across the board - while some were bad, some were also good. Whats left is almost nobody building new houses and servicing the demand, and probably a deep distrust of the banks from any entrepreneurs who have the cahones to get into development. So this is why rents are climbing in my opinion, and I don't see it as a bubble because the banks aren't over lending like before and creating a kind of fake market place by lending to people who can't afford the repayments and much more reasonable LTV rates that aren't I suppose bubble creating.

I'm not sure 170K is enough though to take advantage of the current price boom as perhaps you can't get anything in the right spot for that unless your going to take on a mortgage with it

danko82

the point is to use part of your money as a deposit and then to have a positive cash flow between mortgage and rent..

this what I was thinking

let's say:

250k = 230k apt/house + 20k taxies/expenses?
25k deposit plus 225k mortgate 20 years= 1300 month

so now to have a positive cash flow, I need to have a net rent over 1300. is that possible?

Graham

danko82 wrote: »

the point is to use part of your money as a deposit and then to have a positive cash flow between mortgage and rent..

this what I was thinking

let's say:

250k = 230k apt/house + 20k taxies/expenses?
25k deposit plus 225k mortgate 20 years= 1300 month

so now to have a positive cash flow, I need to have a net rent over 1300. is that possible?

You will need to take into account tax on that rental income. You can only offset a percentage of the mortgage interest.

danko82

Graham wrote: »

You will need to take into account tax on that rental income. You can only offset a percentage of the mortgage interest.

not if I live in that house as well, right? up to 14k..

If I don't live in that house, how much are the taxes for a rental income? 40% 50%?

mrawkward

Deleted User wrote: »

Im looking at coming back to Ireland to start doing real estate projects there instead of overseas as everything my research is pointing to is telling me the market is going to continue upwards.
While I don't know much about the landlord situation in terms of taxes and so on and that isn't my game, the capital appreciation on house prices I believe is going to keep going.

The fundamental of demand outweighing supply is the overriding factor - the thing is NAMA put most of the Irish developers out of business, even if they were able to service the loans, they were still denied the ability to do this. It was like a blanket demonization of developers across the board - while some were bad, some were also good. Whats left is almost nobody building new houses and servicing the demand, and probably a deep distrust of the banks from any entrepreneurs who have the cahones to get into development. So this is why rents are climbing in my opinion, and I don't see it as a bubble because the banks aren't over lending like before and creating a kind of fake market place by lending to people who can't afford the repayments and much more reasonable LTV rates that aren't I suppose bubble creating.

I'm not sure 170K is enough though to take advantage of the current price boom as perhaps you can't get anything in the right spot for that unless your going to take on a mortgage with it

If you do not have your land bank in place by now, the well located cheaper sites are gone, good site prices are rocketing...imo you face an uphill struggle. There is no demand for 60Km distant commuter homes, cheaper rural sites are just not going to cut it. There are serious cost issues with skilled labour shortages, huge local authority levies and recently severe shortages of higher spec insulation materials. I would look hard at the local realities before making any jump.

mrawkward

mrawkward wrote: »

If you do not have your land bank in place by now, the well located cheaper sites are gone, good site prices are rocketing...imo you face an uphill struggle. There is no demand for 60Km distant commuter homes, cheaper rural sites are just not going to cut it. There are serious cost issues with skilled labour shortages, huge local authority levies and recently severe shortages of higher spec insulation materials. I would look hard at the local realities before making any jump.

Only looking at refurb's, cost of new construction is way too high with land and groundwork included. Probably going to stay that way too until a couple of years time when prices are sky high again

mrawkward

Deleted User wrote: »

Only looking at refurb's, cost of new construction is way too high with land and groundwork included. Probably going to stay that way too until a couple of years time when prices are sky high again

I dont disagree however I do notice that doer-uppers in south county Dublin are going for way more than the finished outcome values after expenditure. A lot of DORT type " we want to put our own stamp on it" at play. I have firsthand experience of this with my own offspring seeking to buy at 7-800K and spend 200K over a period... similar end properties are only making +100K max!!

mrawkward

mrawkward wrote: »

I dont disagree however I do notice that doer-uppers in south county Dublin are going for way more than the finished outcome values after expenditure. A lot of DORT type " we want to put our own stamp on it" at play. I have firsthand experience of this with my own offspring seeking to buy at 7-800K and spend 200K over a period... similar end properties are only making +100K max!!

Haha yeah well I think anyone who gets into property when it comes to either building from scratch or doing existing up underestimates the costs the first time, maybe even the second time. Been there and bought the T-shirt so I'd like to think I can avoid that. Im looking at a building in town at the moment 5 stories, quite run down, but great potential. Only issue is its a protected building and requires a change of use which is the only thing stopping us buying it. The risk of trusting an architect to put forward the right plan to maintain the facade and interior which is also required, and then relying on the planning office to approve said designs and grant change of use might be a worry too far. When the planning guys won't give you an answer to 'will you grant change of use if the architect puts forward a plan that meets your every requirement' I tend to believe in the negative outcome!

Gloomtastic!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119754337#Comment_119754337

Do you really want a complete lifestyle change where you will be running a business 24/7? But on the other hand, you will be in charge of your own destiny. You have to consider one against the other. If you are any good, the money will come, if not you are in for a bumpy ride. Good luck in deciding......

walterking

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119802261#Comment_119802261

Online is extremely difficult if you don't have the experience. Hundreds of online stores have closed this year. Including some big names.

It's an ever changing goalpost and usually it's only those who either sell to online stores or those who have no experience, that suggest it is an easy business.

It's not.

The latest casualty is Made.com - valued at £700m in July 2021. Value today = zero.

ASOS, the giant online retailer has had to get more investment.

The good ones are those who have a combination of physical and online business as no matter what people think, shopping in a physical store is the public's top past time.

Where to invest at present? - I'd look at the leisure market. See what young people are into and see if there's longevity in it

LukeChain

Omg the number is huge

GerardKeating

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/103428074#Comment_103428074

So, it's five year later. How did you get on with the investment ?