Chicken zone - advice needed

Lumen

After half a lifetime of being cooped up in suburbia I've finally moved out to the sticks and have the space for some chickens.

This is kind of a big deal to me, it's a long standing ambition so I want to get it right.

I've read a few books and the excellent Chickens thread but have a few questions, so I thought I'd start a new thread.

So here's my thinking....

Chickens are domesticated forest fowl, so I figure they'd be happiest in a forest-y area I have under some trees. It has the advantage of no grass for them to mess up, loads of surface litter to scratch around in, piles of compost and a few low branches to hop around on, and protection from wind and driving rain.

This is what the area looks like. It's about 40m in circumference, so I guess about 80sqm.



More images on imgur

My idea is to place a coop centrally, and ring the area with electric netting, outside of the treeline. The food and water will go inside the coop, so as to avoid access by wild birds (disease issues).

I'm not planning on completely enclosing the area with a fence or wire, hoping that the ring of electric netting will be enough to deter foxes day and night.

For the coop, I'm torn between a small shed like this, raised on blocks:

https://www.shedfactoryireland.ie/ie/6ft-x-4ft-rustic-shed.html

...with some branch perches and a couple of low nest boxes, or a lower coop like this:

http://www.shedworldwexford.com/kennel.php#3

(the deluxe chicken coop, not the kennel).

I'm aiming for maybe 6 hens.

Questions:

- Will the chickens be happy under the trees?
- Is it OK to keep them close to a compost heap (I haven't started it yet, but the chippings will go into it)
- Shed or coop?
- Is electric netting sufficient to thwart predators?

What say ye, chicken folk?

PucaMama

You are so lucky. Fresh eggs all the time.

Springwell

Sheds/walk in coops are much easier to keep clean. I'd be worried that the trees will provide an easy attack angle for Buzzards, pine martens and the like. Electric netting is great but you've got to keep them bottom clear of weeds which may be difficult?

Lumen

Springwell wrote: »

Sheds/walk in coops are much easier to keep clean. I'd be worried that the trees will provide an easy attack angle for Buzzards, pine martens and the like.

Oh. I'm in Wicklow, apparently there are buzzards here. Quick search suggests that vegetable netting or a disco ball would work. I like the idea of a disco ball, they're popular at hen parties. :pac:

Springwell wrote: »

Electric netting is great but you've got to keep them bottom clear of weeds which may be difficult?

Hmmm, maybe I could put a ring of gravel or wood chippings down to suppress weeds.

aonb

Lovely looking spot OP!

Hens must have daylight for their system to produce eggs. They must have approx 8 hours of daylight.If they are not freerange will they be under the trees and dark-ish all the time?

Another question, which I seem to remember being an issue, is will the evergreen trees - needles, cones etc - be problematic? The hens will stratch under the trees - I seem to remember reading an article about the pine needles/cones/sap etc potentially causing a problem with hens breathing? On a plus side, would the pine needles keep mites/bugs away? that could be a minus too, as there wouldnt be much in the way of bugs in the pine needles for the hens to stratch...

If they roost in the evergreens, their feet will get sap on - could that be a problem/issue? Sap in their feathers??

If I had a choice, your walk in shed looks great - easier to clean, expensive for only 6 hens maybe? You could sore your food and equipment in there too. You would have to leave the door open though to let the hens go in/out - if it gets wet, the door wont last long.

Keeping your electric wire free from weeds/long grass might be a pain. By putting your coop/run under the trees it will provide cover for foxes etc, I personally wouldnt be too confident of not having fencing of some sort. Are there a lot of foxes in your area? There are 3 pairs of buzzards nesting a few fields away from us. They keep well clear of houses - Ive never seen them anywhere near our property - they fly over/near constantly but have never come anywhere near our hens - and my neighbours on both sizes for much bigger flocks than we do, and in more open runs...

Good luck with your new venture - very exciting to start a new project, specially when its on your wishlist! Hen keeping is addictive!

DBB

Buzzards wouldn't worry me unduly... I know one person who had a buzzard visit her hens a few weeks ago (her hens attacked it), but we have buzzards nesting beside us here and they haven't even glanced at the hens... hens are usually too big for them to take on. They're more likely to be drawn to the rats that inevitably accompany hens.
But pine martens (and mink) if they're about (and they are in Wicklow), would be a much greater threat, especially if they've a handy over-the-top route via the trees. Whilst a well thought-out fence will keep foxes at bay (and it's said you need to go to a height of min. 5 foot to keep foxes out as they're great jumpers), mink and pine marten are very difficult to keep out because they can easily get under and/or over your defences. Besides, if you have flighty hens, the trees give them a route out, and I wouldn't want my hens taking off to roost in trees at night. So, you may actually be better off fencing them off away from the trees.
Which coop? The shed. Hands down. Easier to clean, can hold far more birds (for when you get the bug ), and if raised on stilts gives a handy place for birds to shelter from rain, and to dust bathe. You can cut a pop-hole in the door. We now have an electric door on the pop hole of our shed which is times to open at dawn, close at dusk.
Pine shavings do cause problems with breathing and sinuses, but you may get away with it outdoors as it's well ventilated. They certainly cause problems if used as bedding inside.
What sort of hens are you thinking of getting?

Lumen

DBB wrote: »

What sort of hens are you thinking of getting?

Was advised to start with light sussex and leghorns.

Want a mix of layers and something meaty that would eventually end up in a proper coq au vin.

Would love a shamo or similar, something really tall. But probably not good for starting out.

aonb

cant go wrong with sussex and leghorn.
make sure you buy from a reputable breeder. Theres a chap that comes from cork every month and supplies point of lay pullets in Wicklow/Kildare - if you dont have a supplier I can PM you his contact details.
Make sure you get point of lay pullets (and also make sure you get hens rather than cockerals ) so you get going with eggs fairly quickly.
Think about getting decent hoppers for pellets and water - saves money buying bad quality/too small etc. Id recommend hoppers with 'rain hood' but if you get a shed, you could have some smashing hoppers inside. Go to PINTEREST for brilliant ideas for customizing your coop/run!

DBB

What do you want a shamo for?!!

Leghorns are great layers, but they can be pretty flighty and consummate escape artists. Unless you've high fencing, I'd think hard before getting them.
As an alternative, any of the Rhode Island hybrids are hard to beat... Black Star, Bluebell, Black Rock, Amber Star, or the Bog standard ISA brown.
Light Sussex are inclined to go broody in spring and summer, which will mean you'll be down on eggs for several weeks from the broody bird. You also have a broody bird to deal with!

Lumen

I just think the Shamo looks amazing.

Too aggressive to keep with other hens?

DBB

Lumen wrote: »

I just think the Shamo looks amazing.

Too aggressive to keep with other hens?

I just wouldn't go there, personally! If it's eggs you're after, they're no good there either!
If you're looking for big (but not at all lanky), the Brahma, Cochin, and Jersey Giant are good layers, and lovely, gentle creatures... Perfect for first-time owners and very sociable within a flock

Springwell

Buzzards are definitely a problem in my bit of Wicklow but we are up in the national park so it's their environment and they're used to feeding off grouse etc up here. I'd guess your location would affect how much of an issue they are? What part of Wicklow are you in?

Leghorns are quite flighty - I'd avoid them. The commercial crosses tend to be better for production both egg and meat wise than purebreds. It might be worth looking at a dual purpose bree like the Ixworth (you'd probably have to hatch them yourself). Brahamas and Orpingtons would fulfill a similar purpose but might be more easily got. I keep mine mostly for show so egg laying isn't a factor - hence a shed full of Pekins and Sablepoots!

An article about Ixworth - link

If you like the look of Shamos maybe set up a separate smaller run for a Trio of modern game bantams - they're almost mini Shamos!)

Lumen

Springwell wrote: »

Buzzards are definitely a problem in my bit of Wicklow but we are up in the national park so it's their environment and they're used to feeding off grouse etc up here. I'd guess your location would affect how much of an issue they are? What part of Wicklow are you in?

South west of Greystones, east of the N11.

Springwell wrote: »

Leghorns are quite flighty - I'd avoid them. The commercial crosses tend to be better for production both egg and meat wise than purebreds. It might be worth looking at a dual purpose bree like the Ixworth (you'd probably have to hatch them yourself). Brahamas and Orpingtons would fulfill a similar purpose but might be more easily got. I keep mine mostly for show so egg laying isn't a factor - hence a shed full of Pekins and Sablepoots!

An article about Ixworth - link

Interesting, I need to do more reading about breeds.

Springwell wrote: »

If you like the look of Shamos maybe set up a separate smaller run for a Trio of modern game bantams - they're almost mini Shamos!)

Those look great. Do they just need to be separated in the daytime so that they don't harass the hens?

I'd love some guinea fowl but I heard they're noisy and aggressive. edit: I saw a few recommendation for guinea fowl on the 14-page chicken thread, so maybe they're OK.

Lumen

Shed-wise, I think 6x4 is big enough for perches and external nesting boxes, but if I want to keep the food and water inside during the daytime then maybe not.

If I want to reproduce DBBs setup, can anyone recommend a supplier who can do the whole thing (shed and nesting boxes) rather than having to sort them out separately?

Recommendations by PM, presumably.

DBB

It's okay to post personal recommendations on-thread

Guinea fowl are absolute tree roosters. They are very, very flighty and... Well... A bit silly and fretful You would be in danger of losing every one of them with your proposed set-up as they go up in the trees and away with them.
Sorry... I feel like I'm being terribly negative here, but you do need to think carefully about what species, and then what breeds, are suited to what you can offer.
As you're starting out (and we all started somewhere!), why not get yourself set up, get a few low-maintenance point of lay pullets of a docile breed, and see how you go for a few months... See how it suits you, see what improvements you need to make, see what's not working, and you'll develop a good feel for what sort of birds might suit you.
Ours has been very organic in that we started out with 6 ISA browns... Lovely, easy birds and great layers, and now we've 9 different breeds (not including hybrids) that we added to the flock principally to get a nice range of egg colours, we've bred our own chicks, we're working on breeding more to get some really unusually-coloured eggs, and right now we've a broody hen sitting on turkey eggs We've reseeded our paddock and once we've grass there, there'll be geese added to the mix.
The hens' run, their sheds and roosts and nestboxes, their feeding locations and equipment, have all been changed and modified as time has gone on to make things better for the birds, and handier for us (cf electric door on hen house )
So get your shed, look at how you might best install roosts and ramps to give birds easy access to plenty of high perches, get the pop-hole with sliding door sorted, get your fencing sorted (we spent quite a few weeks studying and thinking about how to best fence areas off... We have a LOT of electric fencing up high, down low, and in between... Look up how shooting folk fence off pheasant pens to keep predators out... Think about investing in a couple of mink traps, think about food storage and how to keep rat numbers down (where you've poultry, you'll have rats. Guaranteed). Get yourself a source of straw for the nest boxes and whatever substrate you're going to put on the coop floor... And once your shed and fence are ready, get your birds!
I have bought birds from poultry dealers, but by far and away the best source, I have found, are lads who specialise in maybe 3-5 different breeds, in a domestic rather than commercial set up. We've found the birds to be far healthier, better quality, and you get what you ask for... There's a fairly commercial place near us that has turned up problem after problem for us... Leghorn pullets that aren't leghorns, feather lice infestations, poor hatching rate from fertilised eggs... The lad doing it on a smaller scale tends to put more time and effort into doing things right.

Edited to add... Having looked again at the pics of our set-up last year, the shed is now painted and looking much lovelier, but also very much worth noting, we did a major re-jig of the perches, which now stagger from low at the front to high at the back and sides, in a sort of auditorium style... We put ramps in so the girls can walk up, but more importantly walk down from the high perches, instead of trying to fly down because they were going to injure themselves if they kept that up! This is what I mean when I say that things have developed organically as we've spotted flaws, or things that could be improved upon.

Springwell

The game bantams would need to be separated as they'd likely be bullied by larger birds - by a Trio I mean a cock and two hens, treat them as your pets and the main flock as the "work horses" if you want.

I agree that I've had better luck with non-commercial breeders.

Bunnyslippers

I agree with others - leghorns are rather nutty and very flighty!;) For eggs you can't beat the hybrids, or my favourite are marans or even the blue egg laying araucanas, cross those two and you get hens that lay olive coloured eggs!!:D

Meat bird wise I've found either the hybrid white jobs kept in a separate free range pen and killed at 10/12 weeks are the best value to raise and give you something akin to supermarket birds but tastier and free range so much happier birds - if left any longer they go off their legs. If you want to go for a slightly older bird the La Bresse are really tasty and have a good bit of meat on them for an old breed and suit a more standard laid back approach and can be killed whenever, they also lay well too. I've tried alsorts of other breeds and found they come up quite rangy looking with not much breast meat and big legs, taste nice, can be quite strong if left too long, but need a few for a decent meal for a family. Indian game crosses are quite good - especially the dorking cross but they need a good length of time before ready to eat and so are an expensive bird in the long run - plus I've found dorkings either really nice or nuts, I do love the indian game though - always very friendly birds - very poor layers though and squash more eggs than you get from them as they're so big and clumsy!!:D

Tree areas are great as part of their area but can get scratched to bits very quickly and will get very muddy in winter, also encouraging tree roosting is fine but it means they get up at dawn and are easy for foxes, they also have a tendency to fly out of the trees so will miss the fence entirely!
The electric netting is great albeit a faff, but it means you can move it around your garden so the grass doesn't get too poached and the parasite levels don't build up. As for buzzards - they wont bother with chickens, it's rats, foxes and mink or marten that are the main issues. I have electric netting - the one that over a metre high, i kept it electric for a few months but drove me nuts as the paddock grass/weeds and rough uneven terrain were just not working so I left the fence off and the chooks stayed put for two years with only the odd escapee. The problem I had was i rented out the grazing to a neighbour and their rams were just obsessed with the netting and squashed it or kept getting caught in it, so the chickens kept escaping!!:rolleyes: Now they have learnt to just fly out over it, all except my polish pompoms who are too stupid, then we got hit by two foxes who went over and under the fence!!!:(
Anyway all part and parcel of living in the countryside but tbh at our last house we had 6ft poultry net and the fox had no problem climbing it - so you have to just be vigilant and make sure your birds are away early and keep everything crossed, also make sure there is no ground cover for a good distance around you pen so the chickens can see an attack coming plus foxes like to ambush!
An enclosed solid based run is what I'm doing next for days when I'm either out late or early so even if i don't make it back to shut the door they wont get eaten and just leave them out in a pen close to the house with the dog next to it for days when I'm about as we have lots of foxes who do come in the middle of the day as we are very rural!;)

House wise I've had the walk in ones before which are easy to clean but need to be well off the ground or rats will set up shop underneath, but for 6 chickens it's slight overkill!:D At the mo I have moveable ones on stilts which are for 10 chooks and have two boxes at the back - I've found them great, I just have a piece of lino on the floor so I can just pull it out and scrape it off. just make sure you seal all the gaps between all the wooden boards in any wooden house as redmites are a pain!!
Have fun though - I started with six and had over 200 at one point!!;)

Lumen

It really is amazing that these animals made it to domestication without becoming extinct. :pac:

DBB

Lumen wrote: »

It really is amazing that these animals made it to domestication without becoming extinct. :pac:

In terms of passing on their genes, they are the most successful vertebrate that has ever lived!
If you want to do well in the gene exchange stakes, becoming a food animal is a very strategically successful step.
Sh!t life for far too many of them though

Lumen

Thanks for all the excellent advice. I might need to eat some grit to aid digestion of it all.

I'm going to focus on housing first and then think about breeds.

I've gone off the idea of a coop and electric netting, mostly for physical and bio-security reasons.

The avian flu outbreak is ongoing, this from two days ago:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/avian-flu-confirmed-at-a-farm-near-thornton-wyre-lancashire

The advice seems to be to have a completely enclosed run with fine mesh to keep out small birds, and a cover on top. This is particularly important in my location as the trees are full of birds.

So I have two options.

1. Integrated coop and run.

e.g. the Thicket from Smiths Sectional Buildings.

https://www.smithssectionalbuildings.co.uk/Category/Poultry-Houses/Chicken-Houses/The-Thicket



This was recommended to me by a friend with a smallholding in the UK.

It has an onduline roof, covered run, and can be ordered with an extended run, wheels, an external pop hole.

Downsides are that the total area is quite small, only about 5.4sqm. Also, because it's wooden and completely integrated, if I get a mite infestation that I can't get rid of the whole thing is junk.

Or there's this cheaper one from oldmcdonald.ie, although there aren't many pictures.

http://oldmcdonald.ie/poultry/chicken-coops-hen-houses/orpington-chicken-coop.html



Neither of these has a mesh skirt on the run to prevent tunnelling, so I guess that means I'm relying on the coop itself to keep out foxes at night. So I'd need Chicken Guards on the pop holes if I'm ever out or away.

2. Separate coop and enclosed run.

This approach has the advantage of better perimeter security from a mesh skirt, and a larger run.

This looks good although very expensive for the larger sizes:

https://www.omlet.ie/shop/chicken_keeping/walk_in_chicken_run/



...and I'd need covers.

There are cheaper versions from the UK like this:

http://www.gardenlife.biz/3m-x-4m-run-121-p.asp



...although they're uglier and shipping would add cost.

I've slightly gone off the idea of a shed as it'll be very tall once raised so wouldn't fit inside a run. There are various shorter toolstore-type boxes that might be OK, but then I can't walk in to clean it.

Maybe I should stick to a proper coop for now...

There don't seem to be many good Irish-supplied coops. Many of them have felt roofs. ShedWorld are out of stock and they're doing good business on other products so aren't really bothered.

Old McDonald have a few:

http://oldmcdonald.ie/poultry/chicken-coops-hen-houses/shire-hen-house.html



http://oldmcdonald.ie/poultry/chicken-coops-hen-houses/leinster-hen-house-chicken-coop.html



I did also find this nordie one that looks decent:

Egg Box Chicken Coop
http://www.freshsupply.ie/home/4590452693/the-egg-box-chicken-coop-upt0-8-birds/10439770



...although it would need to be raised.

The plastic options are interesting due to ease of cleaning and mite control.

I looked at the Omlet Cube, but it looks small and the "roosting bars" look weird and unnatural.



They look more like roasting bars to me. Mmmmm, roasting.

These plastic creations from the UK look better:

http://www.greenfrogdesigns.co.uk/chicken-lodge-large/



http://www.greenfrogdesigns.co.uk/chicken-loft-small/



http://www.greenfrogdesigns.co.uk/chicken-wagon/



There aren't many pictures of the inside but from the installation diagrams and product videos the perches seem nicely designed (removable/replaceable) and it looks super-easy to clean. But they'll be expensive after shipping.

Maybe I'll go along to Old McDonalds today and check out their coops.

DBB

I'm not sure I understand why the height of the shed means it can't fit into the run? Are you going to cover the whole run with netting or something?
To be honest, the avian flu threat comes primarily from migratory wild fowl. Little songbirds pose very little threat. The latest outbreak in the UK *may* ultimately result in owners in Ireland having to resume the required controls (for small, free range backyard flocks, the suggested requirements aren't too difficult to implement), but you've gone from letting them free range to confining them in a small coop... Personally I wouldn't let the risk of avian flu curtail my long term plans of having free range hens. By all means, be prepared to set up hen-only feeding and water stations, and some biosecurity measures, but I wouldn't be letting it dictate what housing I'd buy for the long term management of your flock.

Lumen

DBB wrote: »

I'm not sure I understand why the height of the shed means it can't fit into the run? Are you going to cover the whole run with netting or something?

The Omlet walk-in run I posted is 2.1m high and has a fully enclosed mesh roof.

Most sheds are about 2m high, which doesn't leave any room for raising them off the ground.

DBB wrote: »

To be honest, the avian flu threat comes primarily from migratory wild fowl. Little songbirds pose very little threat. The latest outbreak in the UK *may* ultimately result in owners in Ireland having to resume the required controls (for small, free range backyard flocks, the suggested requirements aren't too difficult to implement), but you've gone from letting them free range to confining them in a small coop... Personally I wouldn't let the risk of avian flu curtail my long term plans of having free range hens. By all means, be prepared to set up hen-only feeding and water stations, and some biosecurity measures, but I wouldn't be letting it dictate what housing I'd buy for the long term management of your flock.

OK, thanks. Maybe I'll start with the simplest/cheapest free-rangiest solution (standalone coop/shed and electric fence) and increase security as required.

I just have to balance keeping them happy on a day-to-day basis with the risk of them being brutally murdered.

Deub

Keep in mind that hens need a lot a grass. So I would avoid taking more than 3 hens at first and see how it goes.
To save time in the evening bringing your hen in the coop for the first few days, when you bring them the first time, put the box opened in their "house" and let them go out on their own. We made the mistake one year to let the box in the garden and it took us several days to make them understand the house is where they have to sleep. They are creatures of habits and really stubborn.
Regarding the breed, there are great recommendations so far. You can take wilder breed next year. We had bantams for years but they are a bit wild. They are lovely animals and very smart. One year we noticed less eggs (we checked everywhere for hidden nest) then a hen missing (we thought a fox took her). 3 weeks later she comes back with a dozen chicks !

DBB

Lumen wrote: »

The Omlet walk-in run I posted is 2.1m high and has a fully enclosed mesh roof.

Most sheds are about 2m high, which doesn't leave any room for raising them off the
ground.

Ah... Okay... I misunderstood. I didn't cop that you were talking about putting the shed into an enclosed run there!
Plastic coops... I dunno... I'm not familiar with them, but I'm assuming you're limited as to the type of perch you can put in... You certainly won't be nailing natural branches into it anyway!
I also wouldn't get too hung up on the mites issue... If you treat your shed a couple of times a year (I use diatomaceous earth, but lately used the proprietary Smite as we got a bit of a louse infestation from a new hen... Shed, perches, nest boxes and hens all treated!), and treat before you get any hens in, and treat the birds as soon as they arrive, then you shouldn't have mite or louse issues.
Good advice above about putting your new birds into their coop so they can orientate themselves back to the coop at dusk!

Springwell

Put the shed outside the run and have the run covered but with a pophole from shed into run. Then electric fence a larger enclosure around or attaching to the end of the enclosed run. Gives you lots of options

aonb

Hens only spend overnight in their coop and when they lay they will usually (!) do it in the coop. If I had one thing to say to you it would be to spend your money on making the biggest run you can afford and forget spending money on the coop. As long as it's secure inside the run, easily cleaned, draught free, it doesn't matter what kind of coop it is. I have 3 coops. One made by my husband. One is state of the art, with litter tray, egg boxes etc etc., the third is a plastic dog kennel my husband customised. First was free, second cost a fortune, the third was €30. I love the plastic dog kennel! Perfect in every way!!!.

kathleen37

Does no one dig their fencing anymore? Foxes round our way dig, so we have to dig down at least a foot of wire for our chicken runs.

Bunnyslippers

^We dug ours in at the last house by a foot - fox went over instead, and eventually went under it in one night then came back during the day - they ain't daft!!!:rolleyes:

I've always wondered about the plastic coops, but the amount of condensation surely would make them a bit soggy inside? I got mine off done deal they are on stilts and have a rounded corrugated roof, came on a pallet from up the country, they're called the Green Hen Works or something, really solid. I painted mine and sealed them inside and have had them 3 yrs so far and they look new, we move ours using our big wheel barrow, so very happy with them!:)

Lumen

Bunnyslippers wrote: »

I got mine [coops] off done deal they are on stilts and have a rounded corrugated roof, came on a pallet from up the country, they're called the Green Hen Works or something, really solid. I painted mine and sealed them inside and have had them 3 yrs so far and they look new, we move ours using our big wheel barrow, so very happy with them!:)

Thanks! These look fantastic, and reasonably priced too.

http://www.greenhenworks.com/?product=green-acre-hen-house

Lumen

Bunnyslippers wrote: »

^We dug ours in at the last house by a foot - fox went over instead, and eventually went under it in one night then came back during the day - they ain't daft!!!:rolleyes:

The theory of anti-tunneling skirts is that foxes are selectively daft - they always try to dig right at the fence, and if they can't go down they go up or give up.

My current idea for fencing the run is to use mini railway sleepers with welded mesh stapled to the underside, and then mount the electric netting poles on top of the sleepers. That way the grass can't short the fence, the skirting will deter tunnelling, and there's no way a fox can shift a 50kg sleeper.

|
   |   << electric netting
   |
  [ ]   << railway sleeper
-------    << anti-tunnelling mesh
GROUND

DBB

kathleen37 wrote: »

Does no one dig their fencing anymore? Foxes round our way dig, so we have to dig down at least a foot of wire for our chicken runs.

No... An electric wire down low will deter digging. One up high deters jumping. One at nose level for good measure
We have foxes around here, and have never had an intruder. My biggest concern is the mustelids.. Mink and pine marten can breach many more defences than foxes can.

Lumen

DBB wrote: »

No... An electric wire down low will deter digging. One up high deters jumping. One at nose level for good measure
We have foxes around here, and have never had an intruder. My biggest concern is the mustelids.. Mink and pine marten can breach many more defences than foxes can.

I found this. I'm sure you know all this already :-)

How to exclude pine martens from game and poultry pens
http://www.mammals-in-ireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Pine-Marten-Leaflet.pdf

"(c) Preventing access via tree branches
Martens can jump a horizontal distance of about 2m and climb trees with ease. A gap in canopy cover around the pen is essential and at least 3m is recommended."

DBB

Lumen wrote: »

I found this. I'm sure you know all this already :-)

How to exclude pine martens from game and poultry pens
http://www.mammals-in-ireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Pine-Marten-Leaflet.pdf

We already have pretty much all of those suggestions in place, including electric wire around the hen house. We also have mink traps in the hope that if they do come a'visitin, they'll be drawn to the yummy sardines before the hens.

kathleen37

Wow - I had no idea pine martins had recovered so much!! How excellent!!! Not seen one, yet!. Have had mink - they are fearless - one charged me and my Dad once and we both ran like girls...

DBB

kathleen37 wrote: »

Wow - I had no idea pine martins had recovered so much!! How excellent!!! Not seen one, yet!. Have had mink - they are fearless - one charged me and my Dad once and we both ran like girls...

Lol
They are absolute feckers, are mink.
I have seen a few live pine martens, but most I've seen were dead on the roads... I hate to see our native wildlife killed on the roads, but I figure there must be a fair few of them about if they're showing up dead on roads, if you see what I mean? Beautiful creatures... Just stay away from my hens pleeeease

Lumen

OK, it's almost chicken time.

Coop arrived this morning. Eight hens are picked out and coming up from Tipp on Thurs. They have names already, which I know is a very bad idea. :-)

Have installed electric netting mounted on heavy oak sleepers over overlapping anti-tunnelling weldmesh, so hopefully they'll be safe from foxes.

Still a few jobs left to do...

- Fit Chicken Guard automated door opener.
- Find a spot for the treadle feeder and nipple drinker.
- Diatomaceous earth and home-shredded cardboard into the coop.
- Replace square section roost bars with round ones, or maybe get the penknife out and carve them.

The coop is nicely made but the droppings board arrangement presumably isn't ideal, being right on the bottom of the coop. I'm planning on doing deep litter method, so that means the board will only move once a year. I thought the point of a droppings board was to be below the roost bars and above the litter?

Perhaps the coop isn't tall enough - I'm suffering a bit from the conscious decision not to get a shed despite advice to the contrary, and from having internal nest boxes which take up a bit of floor space.

Suggestions welcome for rearranging the internals...?

More pics here: http://imgur.com/a/UtH6p

DBB

Looks a nice set up now op!
A few questions...
Where are you going to install the motor for the automated door? It's meant to be directly above the highest point the door is to open, but I'm not seeing space for one on your coop?
When you say you're using a deep litter system, do you still intend to clean the poop out regularly?
I'm a bit confused about the droppings board TBH.
I'm not sure how shredded cardboard will work out for you... Worth a try but my guess is it'll get soggy and messy on you.
When you say you're putting diatomaceous earth in, what exactly do you mean? You need to be a bit careful with it, it should not be used that it's able to puff up into the air, because it can be quite irritating to the eyes and respiratory tract. It's really only meant to be used to dust cracks and crevices to keep mites and lice at bay, and I've dusted it onto individual hens, but I wouldn't like it in their environment all of the time, and I don't feel it should be used in dust baths.
Are the hens you're getting used to using nipple drinkers? If not, you'll need to supply them with a more open-style drinker until they learn how to use the nipple drinker... Hens drink an unbelievable amount of water, moreso in warm weather. They can't be left without ready access to water!
Similarly, do they know how to use a treadle feeder? It can take quite a while for each hen to learn to use them... You'll need an alternative in the meantime if they've never used one before.
You haven't mentioned what substrate you intend to use in the nest boxes?
I think the coop is plenty tall enough, and new perching arrangements may evolve as you go along
What sort of hens did you go for?

Lumen

DBB wrote: »

Where are you going to install the motor for the automated door? It's meant to be directly above the highest point the door is to open, but I'm not seeing space for one on your coop?

Ha, well spotted! It turned out that the door was scraping the shiplap when pulled straight up, so by mounting the motor above and slightly forward on the overhang I got a better action and enough clearance for the door to fully open.

Video: https://vid.me/c2R0

I have set the light sensor modes to trigger the opening and closing. The settings are configurable to specific lux values but I left them at the defaults for now. Will wait to see what time the hens go to roost and measure the light levels then.

DBB wrote: »

When you say you're using a deep litter system, do you still intend to clean the poop out regularly?

From my reading: top-up/stir around of fresh bedding every week and a full clean out annually.

DBB wrote: »

I'm a bit confused about the droppings board TBH.

Me too. I think it's effectively just a way of emptying the bottom of the coop without reaching in. The other droppings boards I've seen pictures of have been smaller and directly under the roost bars, for obvious reasons.

DBB wrote: »

I'm not sure how shredded cardboard will work out for you... Worth a try but my guess is it'll get soggy and messy on you.

What would you recommend?

DBB wrote: »

IWhen you say you're putting diatomaceous earth in, what exactly do you mean? You need to be a bit careful with it, it should not be used that it's able to puff up into the air, because it can be quite irritating to the eyes and respiratory tract. It's really only meant to be used to dust cracks and crevices to keep mites and lice at bay, and I've dusted it onto individual hens, but I wouldn't like it in their environment all of the time, and I don't feel it should be used in dust baths.

Oops, I read your post after going a bit mad with the stuff yesterday. I started by puffing it on the walls and into the crevices, and then puffed a bit more into the bedding. A couple of cupfuls in total.

This seems to be an area of some controversy.

Some of the US chicken people feed it to their pets and even eat the stuff, claiming that it cleans them out. Others claim that it kills bees, exacerbates respiratory disorders and gives you lung cancer.

I'm reminded of those old British and American videos of DDT.

DBB wrote: »

Are the hens you're getting used to using nipple drinkers? If not, you'll need to supply them with a more open-style drinker until they learn how to use the nipple drinker... Hens drink an unbelievable amount of water, moreso in warm weather. They can't be left without ready access to water!

Not sure whether they are used to it already. The advice I read was that they will only use nipple drinkers when there's no other water source, so to remove everything else. I guess I'll have to see how it goes.

DBB wrote: »

Similarly, do they know how to use a treadle feeder? It can take quite a while for each hen to learn to use them... You'll need an alternative in the meantime if they've never used one before.

Yeah. I really want to get the treadle feeder working to reduce interaction with wild birds. I guess I'm about to find out how trainable are hens.

DBB wrote: »

You haven't mentioned what substrate you intend to use in the nest boxes?

Oh, I just used the same as the bedding at the bottom of the coop - shredded cardboard. Suggestions?

DBB wrote: »

I think the coop is plenty tall enough, and new perching arrangements may evolve as you go along

I replaced the square bars last night with cut branches about 3-4cm thick. They're a bit less stable, if they spin I'll have to mount them properly.

DBB wrote: »

What sort of hens did you go for?

"Various" :pac: It was pissing down with rain when we picked them out on Saturday and I didn't have a pen.

Two sleeps now. Very excited!

DBB

Oh excellent... The door worked out well as it happens! Our electric door is on a timer, so I'm no help to you with the photosensitive one... Just keep an eye on battery life, just so it doesn't let you down when you need it.

Deep litter system... I'll be blunt.. If you only clean up surface poop once a week, 8 hens in your coop will become rank pretty quickly. I'd suggest at a minimum doing a surface clean 2-3 times per week... More in winter because they're inside the coop for much longer hours.

Substrate-wise... I use either compost/peat moss, and/or hardwood shavings. Both are absorbent without becoming soggy. Chicken poop can be pretty wet stuff... Which is why I think cardboard will turn into sh!tty papier maché!
Substrate for the nest box... I just don't know how the hens will feel about shredded cardboard as I've never seen it used... We use straw. We've tried hardwood shavings but they weren't overly impressed. We've 31 laying hens and pullets here... They'd only lay on shavings if the other nest boxes with straw weren't vacant!


Diatomaceous earth... As far as I can tell, any evidence for it working internally on worms is anecdotal. It definitely kills external bugs like lice and mites in my (anecdotal!) experience. But I do feel that given how it works on the exoskeletons of invertebrates... I don't want it in my lungs... Or any other lungs! And I'm certainly not going to let our honeybees in contact with it either!

I hear what you're saying about the nipple drinkers and treadle feeder... But you know what? It took our oldest/cleverest hens at least a week to figure out the treadle feeder, and that was with training by me... The younger pullets took weeks to use it. One option is to keep a weight on the treadle so that it stays open, so the birds can access food without having to activate the scary treadle... And it is scary at first. It moves when you stand on it and it makes a scary noise. I habituated our hens to the noise by standing on the treadle repeatedly over a number of days. I also weighted down the treadle and scattered food around it, and baited the feeding chambers with bread to entice them to stick their heads in. Then I put the treadle on its shallowest setting so that it only moved a bit when they stood on it. With time, I ramped it up to maximum resistance to guarantee keeping rats and crows out, by which stage the hens had it sussed. They're all adept now, but for some of them (particularly shy, flighty birds), it took weeks.
Similarly, in my opinion you simply can't only use nipple drinkers at the start for birds that don't know what they are... You will be very surprised at how much water each hen needs especially in summer weather, and it could take days for them to realise how to access water via the nipple drinkers. If you set up both types, they'll eventually learn how to use the nipple drinker.

Springwell

I used shavings for years but having had the bad luck to have a hen with fungal lung infection attributed to spores in the shavings I changed to straw pellets - what a revelation, no dust, much easier to clean out, composts down much quicker and has far more absorbency than shavings. Cheap too. I would never switch back now and I was a die hard shavings girl before!

We use shredded paper in nest boxes - free and keeps them clean and dry

DBB

Springwell wrote: »

I used shavings for years but having had the bad luck to have a hen with fungal lung infection attributed to spores in the shavings I changed to straw pellets - what a revelation, no dust, much easier to clean out, composts down much quicker and has far more absorbency than shavings. Cheap too. I would never switch back now and I was a die hard shavings girl before!

We use shredded paper in nest boxes - free and keeps them clean and dry

We made the mistake of using pine shavings early last year, from our own trees which were knocked and shredded... Respiratory infections and swollen sinuses all round. Lesson learned.
Straw pellets... I like the sound of those! Where do you get them? I'm guessing they're used as bedding in stables maybe?

Springwell

I was using hard wood (Cedar) shavings - I think I just got unlucky but putting a hen in a vapor tent every day for 2 months was quite the drag!

I'm using pellets from these guys - Straw pellets.ie. My local saddlery stocks them. I used 4 bags initially in the Pekin run (6' x 20') to give 4-5" depth and have only added 1 bag total in 2 months and that was more due to a hose left on flood than dirt! Easy to take droppings off the top, rake over and scatter a handful of new pellets in any bare bits. As a bonus the girls love dust bathing in them too - even though they've a big cat litter tray of sand too!

Lumen

Springwell wrote: »

I was using hard wood (Cedar) shavings - I think I just got unlucky but putting a hen in a vapor tent every day for 2 months was quite the drag!

A vapour tent made of tin foil would probably take only 90 mins or so.

Springwell

Lumen wrote: »

A vapour tent made of tin foil would probably take only 90 mins or so.

I have an oxygen tent that doubled up nicely - it was more the catching the hen up and actually doing it every day that was a drag!

Lumen

Pictured below are all the single ladies who arrived today...

...well seven out of eight. Clarice, Bessie, Domino, Lucy, Frances, Ruth, Bonkers and Cloudy.

Chances of eating them now they have names: slim.

They're gorgeous little things! Each with their own personalities.

The drinker was no problem, I put a plate under it and tapped it with a finger until they got the idea.

I've propped the treadle feeder open until they've got used to it, but TBH they're so excited poking around for worms n stuff they don't seem that bothered by the pellet food.

Will pick up some of those straw pellets at the weekend.

Thanks for all the help and advice!