Fail Year One PME Placement

anon321

Hi Guys,

Looking for some advice. It looks like I will be failing the first placement of my PME and I'm absolutely devastated. I've worked so hard to go the long route around to get into teaching. Worked so hard during the placement to try and Improve and have been told by my tutors that I have improved but it's not enough to get through to the next year. Co-Op teacher feels I should get though but they have no input into the final say.

Looks like I would have to wait until January next year to repeat it and I don't that I have that in me. Struggled with some aspects of teaching but thought I was improving, confidence proving to me one of my big issues. I've been told my planning in fine and that is the application of the teaching I'm struggling with i.e classroom management and pacing.

Can anybody who has ever been in a similar situation with school placement offer some advice? I'm awful upset after all the years of work I've put into this.

gaiscioch

anon321 wrote: »

Hi Guys,

Looking for some advice. It looks like I will be failing the first placement of my PME and I'm absolutely devastated. I've worked so hard to go the long route around to get into teaching. Worked so hard during the placement to try and Improve and have been told by my tutors that I have improved but it's not enough to get through to the next year. Co-Op teacher feels I should get though but they have no input into the final say.

Looks like I would have to wait until January next year to repeat it and I don't that I have that in me. Struggled with some aspects of teaching but thought I was improving, confidence proving to me one of my big issues. I've been told my planning in fine and that is the application of the teaching I'm struggling with i.e classroom management and pacing.

Can anybody who has ever been in a similar situation with school placement offer some advice? I'm awful upset after all the years of work I've put into this.

I'm sorry for your troubles. Having said that, if you show any improvement -any spark of light and progression - from last September your examiner will reward you. They don't expect you to be brilliant, just to have improved, to have listened to their criticisms and rectified things. However, you simply must show that sense of progression, that you're learning. The reflections can be great for showing that consciousness of your mistakes and what you will improve on. If you cried after a class, say it - and what you've learnt. So, can you show any improvement since September?

It's not that unusual to fail. The people I know who did fail were all making the same mistake: they were teaching the subject rather than the students. Again and again I tried to talk to one person (I was the cooperating teacher, as they call it now) but she kept teaching the subject. She never listened and had the same class management issues again and again as a result. That, the subject, was her strong point and she did all sorts of brilliant notes about it but consistently failed to stop, reflect, notice the little things about each student, get a feel for the class and its mood each day - all the little unspoken stuff that should frame how you teach each day. She just had to finish the subject material each class - even if she had lost the class in the first five minutes. It was madness. The same madness each day. The sense that when he walks in the door little Johnny is going to be acting up so bring him into the lesson asap before he gets bored and gets other people going. A sense of a class, a feel. It was all about getting through her chapters/sections and ticking those boxes - and very little about teaching each of those kids. She never addressed this problem, and that's why she failed. In short, if you can show you've improved even a bit you should be grand. Nobody likes to fail somebody, particularly with the high fees and sacrifices people make to do the course. They want to get you over the bar.

anon321

Thank you for your long post.
After every inspection I have tried to respond to the feedback given. Co-Op teacher has commented that they have seen me do this. I tried really hard to respond to the tutors feedback. I have been able to respond to some and struggled to respond to other bits of feedback I have been told I have shown improvement but it still doesn’t seem good enough.

alroley

Can you appeal the result? If you do feel that you have improved and were unfairly graded. I thought if you were failing they send another inspector to confirm it?

anon321

alroley wrote: »

Can you appeal the result? If you do feel that you have improved and were unfairly graded. I thought if you were failing they send another inspector to confirm it?

Some of my inspections have been when I was teaching a topic where my content knowledge wouldn't be as strong as others and after each inspection I have worked really hard to improve but clearly it hasn't been enough surely should be marked on my starting point to now.

Crazyteacher

Anon I would advise you to remove the specific detail you have above because it might identify you to the college you are discussing.

anon321

OP here again, So I'm pretty sure now that my placement is finished that I will de definitely be required to repeat the placement.

Anybody who has had to repeat a placement give some advice on how they found having to repeat.
Is it worth putting yourself through all the stress again ?

I'm really at a lost as to what to do

Crazyteacher

I would suggest that you repeat the placement afresh, new school and even a new supervisor . Put all that happened behind you , no negativity , no telling your new school that you failed.

anon321

would the new school not have any idea I was a repeat ?

Crazyteacher

Not unless you went specifically out to tell them. It would prejudice you slightly. Do you not apply for placements yourself? Eg if you are a first year pme, then apply as normal saying you are looking for first year placement etc.

anon321

no we dont find our placements the college does

Crazyteacher

Sorry when I was doing it we had to arrange our own. I don't think there would be any need for your college to say you were a repeat. And it's your business if you choose tell others in the new school but personally I wouldn't.

anon321

Crazyteacher wrote: »

Sorry when I was doing it we had to arrange our own. I don't think there would be any need for your college to say you were a repeat. And it's your business if you choose tell others in the new school but personally I wouldn't.

Yeah I'm mortified about repeating so I would not be spreading it about.
Would you know how common it is to fail a first placement on a PME?

Crazyteacher

I haven't heard of it before but that doesn't mean it isn't common. I would say that standards are definitely getting higher from the pdge/hdip so don't be hard on yourself.

anon321

Crazyteacher wrote: »

I haven't heard of it before but that doesn't mean it isn't common. I would say that standards are definitely getting higher from the pdge/hdip so don't be hard on yourself.

yeah thanks can help but being hard on myself after all the time and money I've spent going the scenic route

Crazyteacher

A lot of people have taken the long scenic route in to teaching (myself included) , something tells me this time around is going to go very differently for you. You have all these past experiences to look back on and when you meet/should you them again, you'll have a whole lot of other ideas on how to handle them differently. See it as an opportunity to show them how much better you can be.

alroley

I am not an experienced teacher, so maybe I shouldn't be giving advice on this. I am also a first year PME. One of my tutors advised me to spend the summer working with children/teenagers so I can work on some of the issues I had on placement in order to improve by September.

If you do fail, I would say definitely repeat placement next year. Spend the time until January working on the areas of development that your tutors pointed out. There are lots of homework clubs, literacy programs etc. that you can volunteer at. Even things like youth clubs. If it's your subject knowledge that let you down, you could get grinds from an experienced teacher? Take this year and make the best of it so you can fly through placement next January!

anon321

alroley wrote: »

I am not an experienced teacher, so maybe I shouldn't be giving advice on this. I am also a first year PME. One of my tutors advised me to spend the summer working with children/teenagers so I can work on some of the issues I had on placement in order to improve by September.

If you do fail, I would say definitely repeat placement next year. Spend the time until January working on the areas of development that your tutors pointed out. There are lots of homework clubs, literacy programs etc. that you can volunteer at. Even things like youth clubs. If it's your subject knowledge that let you down, you could get grinds from an experienced teacher? Take this year and make the best of it so you can fly through placement next January!

Yes I will be working with children over the summer. My PGCE is secondary so also looking for youth groups to get involved with

Crazyteacher

PME is a two year post primary qualification.
Are you in the U.K. If you are PGCE?

anon321

Crazyteacher wrote: »

PME is a two year post primary qualification.
Are you in the U.K. If you are PGCE?

sorry meant to write my PME is secondary

mtoutlemonde

anon321 wrote: »

OP here again, So I'm pretty sure now that my placement is finished that I will de definitely be required to repeat the placement.

Anybody who has had to repeat a placement give some advice on how they found having to repeat.
Is it worth putting yourself through all the stress again ?

I'm really at a lost as to what to do

Are you 100% you failed i.e. has your tutor told you? Now if it was bad you may scrape a pass but I would definitely up the game for second placement. Also have you informed the college about the problems you have experienced in the past? They may look favourably on you as its your first year and be willing to let you into second year but maybe attending some courses beforehand. Even not maybe some courses in self-esteem to build your confidence. Even 'practice' teaching in your house - I know it sounds daft but it does work. Maybe you have a brother/sister son/daughter cousin you could impart your knowledge to Confidence comes with experience and your subject knowledge will also improve but you would really want to be more than a chapter ahead of your students as the bright ones could find you out asking questions, again knocking your confidence. Best of luck. Never give up - you may have just passed!!!

anon321

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

Are you 100% you failed i.e. has your tutor told you? Now if it was bad you may scrape a pass but I would definitely up the game for second placement. Also have you informed the college about the problems you have experienced in the past? They may look favourably on you as its your first year and be willing to let you into second year but maybe attending some courses beforehand. Even not maybe some courses in self-esteem to build your confidence. Even 'practice' teaching in your house - I know it sounds daft but it does work. Maybe you have a brother/sister son/daughter cousin you could impart your knowledge to Confidence comes with experience and your subject knowledge will also improve but you would really want to be more than a chapter ahead of your students as the bright ones could find you out asking questions, again knocking your confidence. Best of luck. Never give up - you may have just passed!!!

I've been told informally that I have failed but have to wait until official results come out for it to be confirmed after tutors meet to discus and exam boards confirm results so i'm literally just waiting on the confirmation when the results come out in the summer

mtoutlemonde

anon321 wrote: »

I've been told informally that I have failed but have to wait until official results come out for it to be confirmed after tutors meet to discus and exam boards confirm results so i'm literally just waiting on the confirmation when the results come out in the summer

Have you passed everything else i.e. assignments/project work etc.?

anon321

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

Have you passed everything else i.e. assignments/project work etc.?

yes passed all work for the 1st semesters no results back for the second

mtoutlemonde

anon321 wrote: »

yes passed all work for the 1st semesters no results back for the second

I'm sure they'll pass you if that is the case. I know TP is weighted more but I don't think you'll fail as a result of bad performance. I do remember hearing that if TP was failed when I was doing my dip that TP had to be repeated but I think it was hearsay. If you do fail, have a chat to the course coordinator they may be able to help you.

anon321

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

I'm sure they'll pass you if that is the case. I know TP is weighted more but I don't think you'll fail as a result of bad performance. I do remember hearing that if TP was failed when I was doing my dip that TP had to be repeated but I think it was hearsay. If you do fail, have a chat to the course coordinator they may be able to help you.

I sure hope this is the case but not optimistic going by the meeting i've had

alroley

Was this placement ungraded - pass/fail only?

anon321

alroley wrote: »

Was this placement ungraded - pass/fail only?

yes it was just pass/fail

alroley

I think the whole point of a pass/fail placement is for tutors to give guidance and feedback. They are told this is your first experience of teaching. Did each of them give you areas to work on after their first visit? You said in your first post that they saw progress - was it in these areas?
If you're in the same college as me - there is so much taken in to consideration when deciding whether you passed or not. Plans and preparation, professionalism, your reflections, how you assess learning, classroom management. If your planning, reflections, and professionalism were all good, then I would be appealing the result.

anon321

alroley wrote: »

I think the whole point of a pass/fail placement is for tutors to give guidance and feedback. They are told this is your first experience of teaching. Did each of them give you areas to work on after their first visit? You said in your first post that they saw progress - was it in these areas?
If you're in the same college as me - there is so much taken in to consideration when deciding whether you passed or not. Plans and preparation, professionalism, your reflections, how you assess learning, classroom management. If your planning, reflections, and professionalism were all good, then I would be appealing the result.

Yes the progress made has been in response to feedback. Struggled implementing some but implemented others. Classroom managment was one of my biggest struggles.. wasn't strict enough at the start.
been told planning and professionalism has been good. VP of the school has commanded me on my willingness to take on a actually teacher classes I have never done before. Reflections could have been better but wasn't told they any big issues

alroley

anon321 wrote: »

Yes the progress made has been in response to feedback. Struggled implementing some but implemented others. Classroom managment was one of my biggest struggles.. wasn't strict enough at the start.
been told planning and professionalism has been good. VP of the school has commanded me on my willingness to take on a actually teacher classes I have never done before. Reflections could have been better but wasn't told they any big issues

Any sign of improvement in the areas they have pointed out should be enough for your first placement as long as other areas are up to standard. From the information you have provided, you seemed to have been judged very harshly.

I'm no expert, but I would be bringing this up with the School Placement co-coordinator. It's worth a shot.

mirrorwall14

Above all I think you need to clarify exactly what you were doing and why you failed. Giving a completely blunt response based on what you have written you seem to be under the impression that you really haven't done much wrong. This is a big problem for a few reasons.

If there isn't a major reason at all then you need to know exactly why they think you failed or you cannot challenge or appeal it. As far as I'm aware colleges don't fail you for spurious reasons particularly nowadays when they have rigorous standards to follow, it should be clearly explained to you.

If there is a major issue you don't seem to have recognised it and this is concerning. You mention only that "classroom management was one of your biggest struggles". Everything else you say implies that you think you were doing ok. Classroom management is an incredibly broad area. I remember being told by a DIP student that "she felt like part of the paint in the classroom she had so little control". That student made it through the year but left teaching and went into a different career. How bad is your classroom management? Are the students completely out of control? What type of school is it? Can you expect things to improve if you are in a different school? Again referencing that same case, the student teacher thought the class she was referencing were the worst class ever. They weren't. They were actually a very bog standard average class who were allowed to run riot.

I'm playing devils advocate a bit to other posters here but being very straight with you, this is an expensive venture if it turns out teaching is not for you. Classroom management is simply a requirement. You cannot teach without it.

Edit: You also make a comment "my content knowledge wouldn't be as strong as others" and seem to believe that because you worked on it after the fact that you should have your progress acknowledged. I'm going to be very blunt here, that is just not acceptable. You cannot go into a class with your subject knowledge not up to speed for the topic you are teaching. It will come across to students. Its not fair on them, the course has to be taught-your progress is irrelevant to them. It will also have a huge impact on your classroom management if the students do not think you know your stuff

anon321

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Above all I think you need to clarify exactly what you were doing and why you failed. Giving a completely blunt response based on what you have written you seem to be under the impression that you really haven't done much wrong. This is a big problem for a few reasons.

If there isn't a major reason at all then you need to know exactly why they think you failed or you cannot challenge or appeal it. As far as I'm aware colleges don't fail you for spurious reasons particularly nowadays when they have rigorous standards to follow, it should be clearly explained to you.

If there is a major issue you don't seem to have recognised it and this is concerning. You mention only that "classroom management was one of your biggest struggles". Everything else you say implies that you think you were doing ok. Classroom management is an incredibly broad area. I remember being told by a DIP student that "she felt like part of the paint in the classroom she had so little control". That student made it through the year but left teaching and went into a different career. How bad is your classroom management? Are the students completely out of control? What type of school is it? Can you expect things to improve if you are in a different school? Again referencing that same case, the student teacher thought the class she was referencing were the worst class ever. They weren't. They were actually a very bog standard average class who were allowed to run riot.

I'm playing devils advocate a bit to other posters here but being very blunt, this is an expensive venture if it turns out teaching is not for you. Classroom management is simply a requirement. You cannot teach without it.

My issue with classroom management is that i did not set out expectations on my first day as I was conscious of coming across too strict and losing the kids straight away. The kids are not out of control, my issues were along the lines of the kids talking when I'm talking, going off task along with my pacing and transitions being a bit slow.

I don't think I was doing ok I'm well aware I was struggling but I was doing my utmost to improve and my co-op teacher has said they have seen evidence of my work ethic to develop ways to improve

mtoutlemonde

anon321 wrote: »

My issue with classroom management is that i did not set out expectations on my first day as I was conscious of coming across too strict and losing the kids straight away. The kids are not out of control, my issues were along the lines of the kids talking when I'm talking, going off task along with my pacing and transitions being a bit slow.

I don't think I was doing ok I'm well aware I was struggling but I was doing my utmost to improve and my co-op teacher has said they have seen evidence of my work ethic to develop ways to improve

It is very important to set your stall in the first few classes. I always start out with my expectations of the class for the year and I tell the students the consequences of actions. As I get to know them better, I can pull back but it is very important to be firm when getting to know a class. One of the best techniques when students are talking over you is to stay quiet and make eye contact with the 'talkers' - give a warning first, then follow school protocol i.e. journal signed/points etc.

Circulation around classroom when students are doing a task makes sure all students are working also identifying problems. These are my techniques and they work for me. Also learn names as quick as possible and a well thought out seating plan is essential.

Just in relation to that comment about the deputy has 'commanded me on my willingness to take on a actually teacher classes I have never done before.' - What do you mean by that?

anon321

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

It is very important to set your stall in the first few classes. I always start out with my expectations of the class for the year and I tell the students the consequences of actions. As I get to know them better, I can pull back but it is very important to be firm when getting to know a class. One of the best techniques when students are talking over you is to stay quiet and make eye contact with the 'talkers' - give a warning first, then follow school protocol i.e. journal signed/points etc.

Yeah this is my biggest regret, i know my issues would not have been so bad if i had done this at they start of my time in the school.

I did try the bit in bold and would get silence but in some class as soon as i would start talking the kids would start up again

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

Just in relation to that comment about the deputy has 'commanded me on my willingness to take on a actually teacher classes I have never done before.' - What do you mean by that?

That was a typo it should be commended me to my tutor for my willingness to act as substitute for classes Ive never taught before

mtoutlemonde

anon321 wrote: »

Yeah this is my biggest regret, i know my issues would not have been so bad if i had done this at they start of my time in the school.

I did try the bit in bold and would get silence but in some class as soon as i would start talking the kids would start up again



That was a typo it should be commended me to my tutor for my willingness to take on a actually teacher classes I have never done before

Stay silent for a few minutes until it freaks them out and then in your lowest voice say that you are going to continue with class. If that doesn't work, get them to write what you should be teaching from the book into their copies. This should get everyone silent. After a few minutes of that, try and start class again. Shouting is no use as they will get louder. As a dip - ask the teacher who has the class how they deal with. Maybe observe if possible.

I still don't understand that last sentence.

anon321

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

Stay silent for a few minutes until it freaks them out and then in your lowest voice say that you are going to continue with class. If that doesn't work, get them to write what you should be teaching from the book into their copies. This should get everyone silent. After a few minutes of that, try and start class again. Shouting is no use as they will get louder. As a dip - ask the teacher who has the class how they deal with. Maybe observe if possible.

I still don't understand that last sentence.

The VP is the school commended me to my tutor for my willingness to act as substitute for classes I've never taught before i.e I was asked to teach a history class when I never even took history myself in school. I was given a days notice and researched content to teach and delivered the class the next day.

mtoutlemonde

anon321 wrote: »

The VP is the school commended me to my tutor for my willingness to act as substitute for classes I've never taught before i.e I was asked to teach a history class when I never even took history myself in school. I was given a days notice and researched content to teach and delivered the class the next day.

I get you now. You better get used to cover for other teachers as you will have to do maybe paid/maybe not - who knows but that depends on the type of school you work in. Fair play preparing for a class other than your own subject. Out of interest - how did that go?

anon321

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

I get you now. You better get used to cover for other teachers as you will have to do maybe paid/maybe not - who knows but that depends on the type of school you work in. Fair play preparing for a class other than your own subject. Out of interest - how did that go?

Yeah it went ok. The were a bit hard to get engaged as they heard their teacher was out so came into the class in "free class mode" so weren't fond on me getting them to do work when they had been planning on doing their homework

mtoutlemonde

anon321 wrote: »

Yeah it went ok. The were a bit hard to get engaged as they heard their teacher was out so came into the class in "free class mode" so weren't fond on me getting them to do work when they had been planning on doing their homework

If you were able to manage a sub class which are the most difficult to deal with, I can't understand how you couldn't control your own class where you are the expert of your subject.

anon321

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

If you were able to manage a sub class which are the most difficult to deal with, I can't understand how you couldn't control your own class where you are the expert of your subject.

different environments. my usual class would not be taught in a traditional classroom