Da Dawg pound

Guffy

This has to be the end of Kitchens, right? I was all for him this past off season but the offense has just looked inept all year. You have the best receiver in the NFL for breaking slant routes and it feeld like 90% of his targets are hooks. Im not ready to give up on Baker yet, i think this is all coming down to Kitchens being out of his depth.

gstack166

Disappointing end to the season. Looks like Dorsey will get a stay of execution which most likely means Mike McCarthy will get the HC job.

Pains me to say it too even though this season there’s been flashes of a very competent QB I get the feeling Baker won’t make it in this league as a starter. Definitely don’t have the feeling he’s a franchise QB no more, he’ll get another crack at it next year with better coaching but seeing as though I’d expect the next HC to last longer than Dorsey if next season goes bad too, then it’s not impossible that it’s a make or break season for him next year.

In a division with Joe Borrow, Lamar Jackson, he needs to step it up next year big time. He has all the weapons, you’d expect much more improvement next year and hopefully we see the Baker we seen for the last 10 games last year and that it wasn’t a flash in the pan.

Rooting for him, but with the roster there you need to move on quickly if you dont think he’s the right guy.

Panrich

Dorsey will live or die on his next hire turning Baker around. He can’t survive his number 1 pick turning into a bust.
He has been damaged by the Kitchens hire and the OBJ move looks a lot less clever now too.

He’ll be looking to go with a safe pick I reckon. McCarthy looks the likely one at this stage.

gstack166

https://twitter.com/marykaycabot/status/1211647909046968326?s=21


Very surprised, looks like my earlier post about Dorsey staying mightn’t next accurate. Hard to see McDaniels take that job underneath him. Maybe I’m wrong

Panrich

gstack166 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/marykaycabot/status/1211647909046968326?s=21


Very surprised, looks like my earlier post about Dorsey staying mightn’t next accurate. Hard to see McDaniels take that job underneath him. Maybe I’m wrong

Who knows what happens with the Patriots next. It’s hard to see them getting all the way this year and that might prompt some big decisions.
McDaniels might want a new challenge.

Panrich

So Dorsey is gone now too. That is a surprise but I’m ok with it. I might be in a minority on that but I think he would be a limiting factor in who would actually come as HC.

Although he brought in a lot of talent, I’m not sure that the culture was right and the discipline certainly wasn’t.

VillaMad

Panrich wrote: »

So Dorsey is gone now too. That is a surprise but I’m ok with it. I might be in a minority on that but I think he would be a limiting factor in who would actually come as HC.

Although he brought in a lot of talent, I’m not sure that the culture was right and the discipline certainly wasn’t.

Yeah it was pretty much a disastrous season all-round and while they were competitive for a while, once Garrett got suspended, they fell off a cliff.

In isolation, Dorsey and Kitchens going isn't a huge deal and certainly in Kitchens case, the absolute right decision, but the Haslam's have been here before many a time and the same words have been used over and over again about how they need to get it right.

Baker Mayfield had an awful year but his performances in his rookie year suggest that it would still be too quick to write him off, so he will have it all to prove next season. If they can get the O-Line fixed, I see no reason why he and the Browns by extension can't do better. I don't see major surgery needed in the off-season other than the O-Line and perhaps at linebacker so it should still be a fairly attractive job.

My only fear is that once again bringing in a new GM and coach will mean that they will have their own ideas about a winning team and get rid of a lot of players that were drafted before them and so the cycle of change would continue again.

Panrich

If you read the reports of what Monken was saying to opposition coaches, then it’s a miracle that we won any games at all.

Basically if Kitchens was tearing up the game plan and making it up as we went along, it helps explain how we always looked rushed and also how players were lining up wrong. Hard to QB for an inexperienced young player like Baker.

Ironically that is easy to fix with proper coaching so it should be easy to improve next seaso.

Panrich

So it's Stefanski and looks like Berry as GM. I had sort of warmed to Saleh over the past week and he certainly won the head to head last night but Stefanski's our guy now. If he can get a tune out of the likes of Cousins and Keenum, then he can hopefully get Baker back on track.

VillaMad

After thinking about it, Stefanski was always likely to get it after DePodesta looked for him last year and with him still there and Dorsey now gone it was almost inevitable that Haslam would finally listen to DePodesta and hire him. McDaniels was the favourite but when I read that he wanted to change the whole operation of the Browns, the Haslam were never going to accept that.

I agree with you in that I would have preferred Saleh as I feel that although he has an brilliant defense to call for, the character and energy that they show is admirable and watching the Browns all season, it was one of many things they were missing.

Stefanski at least brings many years of experience in the NFL albeit none as a head coach but for the first time in a long while the whole organisation will be aligned by the same way of thinking. He doesn't appear to be a big ego either so unlike like season, I hope that the Browns stay quiet and work hard through the off-season.

gstack166

Was listening to ESPN Cleveland radio this evening while in the gym, they had interviews with Kyle Rudolph and Adam Thielen, both couldn’t speak highly enough of Stefanski especially Rudolph, he was asked ‘ok we know all the good things about him, give us one negative about him’ Rudolph said ‘the only negative there is about him is that now I’m going to have to learn a new play book and I know already and can tell you now honestly, it won’t be anywhere near as good as Stefanski’

Rex Ryan also spoke saying he loved the hire and thinks he’s going to be the next Sean Payton. Just added in that as I think Rex has unbelievable knowledge of the game, I’d actually love to see him in as DC. Didn’t work out for him as as a head coach but on defence there isn’t much better.

VillaMad

Free agency is upon us despite the Coronavirus.

Lots of changes in the winter with Andrew Berry now leading a more statistical approach again similar to a few years ago. With a new GM though, changes were expected with obviously most of these players drafted or signed by Dorsey.

Christian Kirksey was released last week after an injury hit past couple of seasons. Joe Schobert was expected to be retained but the Browns have opted to let him test the market. Sad to see Joe go as he always reliable without ever being a top tier player. Morgan Burnett has been released today. He played 8 games until he torn his achilles in the infamous win over Pittsburgh and so the opted to release him.

The Browns have put a second round tender on Kareem Hunt so I would be surprised if anyone bit on that especially with the Browns having so many needs on defense, they don't need to be drafting another running-back. His off the field problems should deter anyone else anyway.

Massive needs now at Linebacker and Safety. Uncertain at what happens to Njoku who probably would have been traded if Dorsey had stayed. Tackle remains the main priority for the Browns with both sides needed to be filled. Jack Conklin will be available as a free agent and would be someone they should look get as well as draft one in the First Round, but certainly an awful lots of work needing to be done in the next wee while.

Guffy

VillaMad wrote: »

Free agency is upon us despite the Coronavirus.




Massive needs now at Linebacker and Safety. Uncertain at what happens to Njoku who probably would have been traded if Dorsey had stayed. Tackle remains the main priority for the Browns with both sides needed to be filled. Jack Conklin will be available as a free agent and would be someone they should look get as well as draft one in the First Round, but certainly an awful lots of work needing to be done in the next wee while.

Just signed Hooper to a fairly decent contract. Will they be shopping Njoku. He has all of the measurables to be a great TE but the penny just wont drop with blocking. Still though, i think its to early to give up on him in what's touted as the most difficult position to get in the NFL, with TE's generally taking 4 years for their break out season

gstack166

https://twitter.com/firsttake/status/1247225603255926786?s=21

Meant to post this a few days ago. I can agree with both Stephen A & Max on a lot of points. I actually thought Darnold was the better fit personally but to say after 2 years they made a mistake not getting him when you compare their short careers is just stupid.

Baker literally lit up Cleveland when he came on the scene, gave the fans hope. I don’t think Darnold could of had that impact starting off, now it remains to be seen if Darnold should’ve been the guy only time can judge that but I’m positive there isn’t many fans or front office men that have regrets at this moment in time.

BonnieSituation

Can't disagree with anything you've said there.

It's a weird point to be making.

If Baker had a year 2 similar to year 1 there's no way he would state that.

And everyone knows that year 2 and its problems are not solely on Baker.

And new threads being launched today. Hopefully back to the classic look.

I'm definitely hoping they have a Buccaneers-type evolution rather than a Falcons puke fest.

The_Honeybadger

Jury is still out on both Mayfield and Darnold, neither have had much help from their offensive lines in recent seasons but I think the Browns have tried to sort that with the Conklin signing and presumably they’ll take a LT in the draft when they are picking at 10 and there are four very good ones available by all accounts

This is the year for Mayfield to step forward. That offence is so stacked with talent it’s crazy, once the line is fixed he can have no excuses and he will have two of the best backs in the league to hand off to and open up play action. If he can’t perform under those circumstances he never will. I think he can do it and win the division if a few things go right.

BonnieSituation

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Jury is still out on both Mayfield and Darnold, neither have had much help from their offensive lines in recent seasons but I think the Browns have tried to sort that with the Conklin signing and presumably they’ll take a LT in the draft when they are picking at 10 and there are four very good ones available by all accounts

This is the year for Mayfield to step forward. That offence is so stacked with talent it’s crazy, once the line is fixed he can have no excuses and he will have two of the best backs in the league to hand off to and open up play action. If he can’t perform under those circumstances he never will. I think he can do it and win the division if a few things go right.

And I think he knows that too.

The_Honeybadger

BonnieSituation wrote: »

And I think he knows that too.

Their biggest issue is the Ravens standing in their way in the division. Steelers might also be better than people think if Ben is healthy and the Bengals have spent in free agency and will have Burrow. It’s a very tough division on paper.

BonnieSituation

Steelers can only be better given how destroyed they were last year.

The 3rd Wild Card place may be a blessing this year.

gstack166

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Their biggest issue is the Ravens standing in their way in the division. Steelers might also be better than people think if Ben is healthy and the Bengals have spent in free agency and will have Burrow. It’s a very tough division on paper.

The thing that will be the most disappointing from the Browns point of view is if we look back in 5 years and realise we have the 3rd best QB in the division. The worst scenario is if Big Ben is still around in 2 years and we have the 4th!

The_Honeybadger

gstack166 wrote: »

The thing that will be the most disappointing from the Browns point of view is if we look back in 5 years and realise we have the 3rd best QB in the division. The worst scenario is if Big Ben is still around in 2 years and we have the 4th!

Ben is 38 and coming off major surgery on his throwing arm, he is not Tom Brady that can play in to his forties. I’d give him two seasons max.

Browns probably have a window of a few years before some of these young guys come looking for money, they might start losing key pieces as a result and their ability to sign free agents like they have been doing will be severely hampered. I think they have a proper coaching setup now after the Kitchens debacle but they are running in to a juggernaut in the Ravens who somehow have five picks in the early rounds of the draft and are already loaded! Unless they get bitten hard by the injury bug I don’t see them giving up the division

BonnieSituation

New uniforms announced...

Back to the classic look. Shame they changed the Colour Rush jersey. I liked that. And curiously, an orange one is absent.

https://twitter.com/Browns/status/1250454417125638146

gstack166

BonnieSituation wrote: »

New uniforms announced...

Back to the classic look. Shame they changed the Colour Rush jersey. I liked that. And curiously, an orange one is absent.

https://twitter.com/Browns/status/1250454417125638146

The Brown uniform would look so much better with Orange pants.

VillaMad

Draft Day!

All talk for the past few months is taking one of those 4 tackles but as we stand here now, we don't know what's going to happen.

The Dolphins are rumoured to be looking at a tackle which could alter the draft board while talk of a trade for Trent Williams hasn't gone away.

If there is a run on tackles at the top of the board, I could even see the Browns trade down. We know with the Browns going back to more analytics type decision-making that the previous regime loved to pick up picks.

VillaMad

Very happy with Jedrick Wills last night. By the sounds of it the Browns would have traded down if he was already taken so he must have been very highly rated in their scout reports. All the tackles looked pretty high quality to me so taking any of them was fine by me. Hopefully we have turned a major weakness now into a strength with Conklin on one side and Wills on the other.

For tonight, we should be looking at safety and linebacker as the two priorities. No safeties were taken last night, so a pretty good one could fall to them. Two picks in the third round so they might look at a wide receiver as well for some depth.

Panrich

VillaMad wrote: »

Very happy with Jedrick Wills last night. By the sounds of it the Browns would have traded down if he was already taken so he must have been very highly rated in their scout reports. All the tackles looked pretty high quality to me so taking any of them was fine by me. Hopefully we have turned a major weakness now into a strength with Conklin on one side and Wills on the other.

For tonight, we should be looking at safety and linebacker as the two priorities. No safeties were taken last night, so a pretty good one could fall to them. Two picks in the third round so they might look at a wide receiver as well for some depth.

It was good to see Berry not trying to be too smart and just taking what came to him. We can say that Wills was at worst #2 on the Browns board and so it has to be seen as a good night.

For tonight, I just want to see best talent available no matter the position. There is a good chance that a good first round projected talent might fall to 42 and I think we should take what comes to us. Having said that I see that no safety has come off the board yet so we might get our top rated in the second round.

VillaMad

So Andrew Berry got a little creative last night by trading back two of the picks.

Took LSU's Grant Delpit at 44 and picking up a 5th rounder today. Seems like Delpit was a definite first rounder coming into the college year but a mixture of playing with an injury and also missing a lot of tackles seen him drop down. Looks excellent in coverage though and is a good pick at 44 similar to Greedy Williams last year who also fell into the middle of the second round.

Berry traded the number 72 pick with the Saints for the 88th pick and got a third rounder next year while also giving up a seventh rounder today. DT Jordan Elliott was taken at 88 out of Missouri. The pick was met with a bit of indifference on ESPN last night, but PFF are extremely high on Elliott as they had him at 23 on their big board. The Browns didn't have much depth at DT coming into free agency but having picked up Andrew Billing from the Bengals and now Elliott here they have good backups to Richardson and Ogunjobi. Elliott looks like somehow perhaps for the 2021 season.

At 97, they took Jacob Phillips, a linebacker again out of LSU. It was a big need for the Browns having let Joe Schobert go in free agency. Doesn't seem highly rated by too many but is seen as a reliable player rather than a spectacular player.

So 3 picks as we stand for Day. 115, 160 and 187. Positions to target are probably a guard or centre. Not much on the roster at wide receiver if Landry or Beckham went down, so one of the picks should be here. TE could also do with a bit of depth and possibly another at DE if more picks are got from a trade down.

VillaMad

So a pretty solid day 3 and overall in general by Andrew Berry in his first draft as GM.

It was a TE taken in the fourth round. Harrison Bryant out of Florida was the one chosen to bulk up the TE depth. Was the college player of the year last year at the position, but looks like a lad that needs to bulk up as the competition will rise. Very good catcher as he was a wide receiver in high school. Hooper, Njoku, Pharaoh Brown, Carlson and now Bryant gives them a good few options. Njoku's future is in doubt a bit, but he should be here for the following season. Expect lots of double tight-end sets with all those options.

At pick 160, Nick Harris was taken. A centre out of Washington which was the pick got from the Colts which proved very handy. Seems like the consensus was that this was a great value pick as he was touted as a third rounder. He will learn as back-up to JC Tretter.

With their last pick, they took Donovan Peoples-Jones a WR from Michigan. A 5-star recruit out of high school, he never lived up to his potential, being more athletic than a true football player. The guy has all the traits though, which makes it a good punt in the sixth round.

Skimming through the undrafted free agents that were signed, they took AJ Green a CB from Oklahoma who was expected to go late yesterday, so that's seems to be a decent one.

Overall, a pretty good draft. The roster looks pretty good which nice quality and depth in most areas. The linebacker position still looks underwhelming while the way their was little or no pressure on the quarter-back once Garrett got suspended hasn't really been fixed. With the highest cap space still available in the whole of the NFL, they could still have a shot at Jadeveon Clowney if they wanted to.

VillaMad

Rashard Higgins has signed a 1-year deal to stay with the Browns.

He was Baker's man at the end of the 2018 season and for whatever reason was rarely seen last year with Freddie Kitchens as coach. I would love to know what happened. It claimed that he turned down more money at other clubs to stay with the Browns.

Myles Garrett and David Njoku have had their fifth year option on their contracts exercised which was expected.

Panrich

VillaMad wrote: »

Rashard Higgins has signed a 1-year deal to stay with the Browns.

He was Baker's man at the end of the 2018 season and for whatever reason was rarely seen last year with Freddie Kitchens as coach. I would love to know what happened. It claimed that he turned down more money at other clubs to stay with the Browns.

Myles Garrett and David Njoku have had their fifth year option on their contracts exercised which was expected.

I thought that Higgins might not be back especially after taking Peoples-Jones and yet another TE in the draft. As you say though, there seems to be a bit of chemistry between him and Baker.