That time of year again!

Starkystark

Application time!

Is anyone else getting really fed up with the level of detail and questioning expected now in application forms? Honestly for some questions I really do wonder would they themselves be able to answer them

2xj3hplqgsbkym

Yes it is tedious.
On that note, could anyone clarify the difference between extra curricular activities outside of school and extracurricular activities inside of school. (It is a question on ETB form).
For example if I have an irish conversation group at lunch time which does it fall under? ( in my time, in school building but optional )
Or I run a cooking competition after school ( in school building but outside of class time ) .
Thanks

Crazyteacher

Outside of school would be your own activities out of school e.g. Swimming , community work.

Noveight

I know the struggle! Completing my PME application last year seemed never ending. Now that I'm familiar with the course administrators I'm wondering why such a scattered bunch needed such specific info!

2xj3hplqgsbkym

Crazyteacher wrote: »

Outside of school would be your own activities out of school e.g. Swimming , community work.

Thanks , I thought that too, but next heading is 12. OTHER RELEVANT EXPERIENCE (E.G. NON TEACHING EXPERIENCE, COMMUNITY INVOLVEMENT ETC.)

happywithlife

Ben Bewildered Peddle wrote: »

Yes it is tedious.
On that note, could anyone clarify the difference between extra curricular activities outside of school and extracurricular activities inside of school. (It is a question on ETB form).
For example if I have an irish conversation group at lunch time which does it fall under? ( in my time, in school building but optional )
Or I run a cooking competition after school ( in school building but outside of class time ) .
Thanks

Might be wrong but I'd read that as EC inside school being stuff that would happen within the school day and require cover so coaching and matches. EC outside school hours I'd take to be something like equestrian which is kinda one doing it off your own bat and doesn't impact on school day

Crazyteacher

Ben Bewildered Peddle wrote: »

Thanks , I thought that too, but next heading is 12. OTHER RELEVANT EXPERIENCE (E.G. NON TEACHING EXPERIENCE, COMMUNITY INVOLVEMENT ETC.)

Then I would go with my own hobbies and interests in 10 and then community work or other relevant experience in 12.

maynooth_rules

That certain Wicklow school is up again with its 101 teaching jobs. Thankfully they have shortened the application form but there are still some tedious questions there. The amount of teachers that wasted so much time on their 20 page application form last year....and then receive no word back

Crazyteacher

Would those jobs be second year cid reinterviews?

Starkystark

Probably!

gaiscioch

Ben Bewildered Peddle wrote: »

Yes it is tedious.
On that note, could anyone clarify the difference between extra curricular activities outside of school and extracurricular activities inside of school. (It is a question on ETB form).
For example if I have an irish conversation group at lunch time which does it fall under? ( in my time, in school building but optional )
Or I run a cooking competition after school ( in school building but outside of class time ) .
Thanks

A new word I learnt at an interview a while ago: co-curricular. I was asked about what sort of co-curricular things I could do in a school, and I just assumed it was a fancy name for extracurricular and answered that. Not quite, although I do get the sense that many of the people asking these questions think they're synonymous and just want to use a word they picked up at a recent inservice. Anyway, it's worth knowing this distinction.

co-curricular v. extracurricular

Co-curricular vs. Extracurricular
Generally speaking, co-curricular activities are an extension of the formal learning experiences in a course or academic program, while extracurricular activities may be offered or coordinated by a school, but may not be explicitly connected to academic learning. This distinction is extremely fuzzy in practice, however, and the terms are often used interchangeably. Athletics, for example, are typically considered to be extracurricular activities, while a science fair would more likely be considered a co-curricular activity, given that students are learning science, participation may be required by the school, students may be graded on their entries, or a science teacher may coordinate the fair. Still, in some schools certain athletics activities might be considered “co-curricular,” while in other schools a science fair may be labeled “extracurricular.”
Creative Commons License

gaiscioch

Starkystark wrote: »

Application time!

Is anyone else getting really fed up with the level of detail and questioning expected now in application forms? Honestly for some questions I really do wonder would they themselves be able to answer them

I still have nightmares about seeing a 10-page application form for a certain school in Greystones a couple of years ago. I wouldn't like to work for any principal or Board of Management which would be so obtuse, inefficient and self-centred.

Crazyteacher

I see a certain school in Co Louth is still seeking teachers leaving cert results! I wonder if they are still being given past papers to do before interview?

gaiscioch

Crazyteacher wrote: »

I see a certain school in Co Louth is still seeking teachers leaving cert results! I wonder if they are still being given past papers to do before interview?

I felt compelled to pay a visit over to Educationposts just to put a name to this:named and shamed.

r93kaey5p2izun

That 10 page form for Wicklow was ridiculous (particularly given the hidden requirement that ruled most people out). But two ET schools just copied it exactly and changed the school name. Seems to be a competition to have the most onerous application process.

sitstill

Robert Green Script wrote: »

That 10 page form for Wicklow was ridiculous (particularly given the hidden requirement that ruled most people out). But two ET schools just copied it exactly and changed the school name. Seems to be a competition to have the most onerous application process.

What was the hidden requirement that ruled people out?

maynooth_rules

sitstill wrote: »

What was the hidden requirement that ruled people out?

They did seem to be pushing their church of Ireland ethos quite a lot but I can't see how that would have been used in the selection process.

GalwayGirl26

My favourite phrase is ''...would be a distinct advantage''. For example ''Experience coaching rugby would be a distinct advantage'', ''Experience teaching Microsoft Office applications would be a distinct advantage'', ''Being named Albert Anderson and having graduated from UCD in 2007 and having an interest in tennis would be a distinct advantage.''

janes1234

Gaiscioch. Cocurricular is not a new word! It has been around for a long time and it's not unreasonable to be asked about this at interview.

Liberal_irony

A certain Kildare school is advertising "permanent" positions. Think they just ticked the wrong box?

djemba djemba

GalwayGirl26 wrote: »

My favourite phrase is ''...would be a distinct advantage''. For example ''Experience coaching rugby would be a distinct advantage'', ''Experience teaching Microsoft Office applications would be a distinct advantage'', ''Being named Albert Anderson and having graduated from UCD in 2007 and having an interest in tennis would be a distinct advantage.''

Thats gas. I remember last year talking to a friend of mine and how he had a job for next year. About 10 days later, the position was advertised. The requirements were so specific he was the only suitable candidate. The advertisement may of as well said ''_______ ______ need only apply.''

evolving_doors

It's to prevent appeals too.

Another telling one is "an ability to teach ________ would be advantageous" and then they don't ask you anything about that ability in the interview.

Also if you feel you are more qualified than the successful candidate you can be 'out-holied' on the ethos question.

Also newish school advertising a load of RPT contracts at once. It's just they have to keep on re-advertising until the in situe teacher gets their CID after 2 or 4 years.

Another one is body language...principal generally stares down at the page while some one else is asking questions.

But... in saying all that ,you never know what will happen so it's worth a punt in case the shoe-in doesn't take the job. Get some interview experience too.

Crazyteacher

Gebgbegb wrote: »

It's to prevent appeals too.

Another telling one is "an ability to teach ________ would be advantageous" and then they don't ask you anything about that ability in the interview.

Also if you feel you are more qualified than the successful candidate you can be 'out-holied' on the ethos question.

Also newish school advertising a load of RPT contracts at once. It's just they have to keep on re-advertising until the in situe teacher gets their CID after 2 or 4 years.

Another one is body language...principal generally stares down at the page while some one else is asking questions.



But... in saying all that you never know what will happen so it's worth a punt in case the shoe-in doesn't take the job. Get some interview experience too.

Sounds scarily familiar Geb.

Corkgirl18

Was looking at an advert for a maths and a senior science subject and it mentioned that a formal qualification in teaching English as a second language would be advantageous.
Found this very random! Does this mean there's a good chance they have someone set up for this job?

Crazyteacher

Odd alright. It must be hours that consist English as foreign language/resource. I saw one recently that was advertised as English and geography as required subjects and had history and maths as additional require to for the job. How many subjects are teachers meant to have these days?

mtoutlemonde

Crazyteacher wrote: »

Odd alright. It must be hours that consist English as foreign language/resource. I saw one recently that was advertised as English and geography as required subjects and had history and maths as additional require to for the job. How many subjects are teachers meant to have these days?

I saw one last year for a language job but in the additional requirements it stated that applicants must have the ability to teach DCG and Woodwork. This advertisement should have been reported because they really were looking for a Woodwork teacher but advertised for a language teacher so that no one would see it.

evolving_doors

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

I saw one last year for a language job but in the additional requirements it stated that applicants must have the ability to teach DCG and Woodwork. This advertisement should have been reported because they really were looking for a Woodwork teacher but advertised for a language teacher so that no one would see it.

In a way though by keeping the job hidden they're not going to waste your time interviewing for a job that's spoKen for.

mtoutlemonde

Gebgbegb wrote: »

In a way though by keeping the job hidden they're not going to waste your time interviewing for a job that's spoKen for.

Oh I know that but it's just the way they went about advertising it. It would be more honest to advertise what they wanted and either ignore applications (which I hate when principals do that) or email stating that applicant has not passed shortlist.

happywithlife

Was asked for my points from the leaving cert today on an application forms:-0
Wtf ??

Crazyteacher

Quite common. One school in particular required an A1 in your teaching subjects. The ETB forms require them as do some voluntary secondaries.

happywithlife

Crazyteacher wrote: »

Quite common. One school in particular required an A1 in your teaching subjects. The ETB forms require them as do voluntary secondary.

Yeah I can kinda understand asking GRADES but o top of that I was asked for overall points !!
Ffs I did the leaving completed college got my degree have experience ..felt like they want to know I had weetabix for breakfast and black underwear on .. tmi i know ☺

Crazyteacher

Its another way of shortlisting I suppose. But by the time you get degree results( year by year in some forms), masters results, Pgde results , it can get so wearisome. I think they make a lot of work for themselves to read when all they need is our teaching council registration and evetting. Maybe the want to put people off.

mtoutlemonde

Crazyteacher wrote: »

Quite common. One school in particular required an A1 in your teaching subjects. The ETB forms require them as do some voluntary secondaries.

That's where you put in your random A's and B's at HL I think this is the most ridiculous questions they can ask. What about the candidate that took up their teaching subject at third level? Are they not shortlisted because they didn't study it at second level? What about the candidate that performed better in their subject at third level?

Crazyteacher

True, Often people develop their real love of a subject at third level.

Liberal_irony

Anyone notice the Kildare school advertising two 11 hour contracts for maths... Clearly breaking up a full-time contract...

maynooth_rules

Application form for this position is available from xxxxx.
Applications are to be accepted by post only.
5 copies of Application Form must be submitted.
Teaching Council evidence of subjects you are qualified to teach must be submitted.
Garda Vetting Cert must be provided
Two written references are required.
This position is for 22 hours Geography and Resource Maths teaching per week
Hand written applications will not be accepted.

Is this not bordering on ridiculous now.

happywithlife

maynooth_rules wrote: »

Is this not bordering on ridiculous now.

I've seen worse- saw one recently where you had to submit 5 copies of the application forms, and 5 copies of your certs/diploma/teaching council reg and something else - can't remember now. Also saw one asking for passport photo with letter of application

evolving_doors

happywithlife wrote: »

I've seen worse- saw one recently where you had to submit 5 copies of the application forms, and 5 copies of your certs/diploma/teaching council reg and something else - can't remember now. Also saw one asking for passport photo with letter of application

What they heck would a school be doing with 5 copies of your application form. Is this before you're even called for interview?

happywithlife

Gebgbegb wrote: »

What they heck would a school be doing with 5 copies of your application form. Is this before you're even called for interview?

Presume it's so they don't have to photocopy a set for the interview panel. Yep no guarantee of even bring shortlisted. Also filling in lots of application forms but still having to submit a cv with them! 🙄

maynooth_rules

maynooth_rules wrote: »

That certain Wicklow school is up again with its 101 teaching jobs. Thankfully they have shortened the application form but there are still some tedious questions there. The amount of teachers that wasted so much time on their 20 page application form last year....and then receive no word back

Lovely rejection email from that school in Wicklow.
Same every year. They advertise every job under the sun, have a really long application form then the customary lovely rejection.
Tbf at least they have the manners to send out a reply. So simple to do with email today yet so few schools afford the decency.

oneright

I got that lovely email myself today! How long does it take ETBs to get back to you,I had an interview last week and the stress in the wait!

evolving_doors

maynooth_rules wrote: »

Lovely rejection email from that school in Wicklow.
Same every year. They advertise every job under the sun, have a really long application form then the customary lovely rejection.
Tbf at least they have the manners to send out a reply. So simple to do with email today yet so few schools afford the decency.

Is this correct...In a new school once the population increase therefore the hours available increase... therefore they have to readvertise the same job over and over?

Would that school you speak of be of a minority denomination ... so they might be looking for someone who would fit that ethos profile?

TheDriver

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Is this correct...In a new school once the population increase therefore the hours available increase... therefore they have to readvertise the same job over and over?

Would that school you speak of be of a minority denomination ... so they might be looking for someone who would fit that ethos profile?

There is a circular that states that staff on CID have to be offered the hours being advertised first before being advertised. Except in a situation where you need 2 english teachers for a block and hence can't offer the hours to your 1 teacher.

ETBs: all differ on timeframes in getting back to you. It all depends on their HR departments.

evolving_doors

TheDriver wrote: »

There is a circular that states that staff on CID have to be offered the hours being advertised first before being advertised. Except in a situation where you need 2 english teachers for a block and hence can't offer the hours to your 1 teacher.

ETBs: all differ on timeframes in getting back to you. It all depends on their HR departments.

Yes I'm thinking of a new school about 2 years old where 20 jobs were advertised! The subject combinations were a little bit specific with odd enough combinations (for a new school! ). So in that case I would assume none of the current staff are open to CID's. Would that be fair to say?

TheDriver

That sounds about right, strange

LeonDen

I've got called for an interview next week for a geography, history and English job however, I'm only TC qualified in geog and hist. (The panel should know this from my app form) Any advice on how to answer any English qs thrown my way?

icebergiceberg

One of the most frustrating things with application forms-going back many, many years- was the pitiful amount of space you had to write (yes write) your responses to questions. A small box was intimidating if you had unwieldy handwriting.

The amount of paper work nowadays is frightening (especially as someone noted above) the core info needed:TC Reg, relevant experience and reference contacts is small. That is the important bit and all the other stuff will come out in the wash at interview.

Eimee90

LeonDen wrote:

I've got called for an interview next week for a geography, history and English job however, I'm only TC qualified in geog and hist. (The panel should know this from my app form) Any advice on how to answer any English qs thrown my way?

I would be surprised if you were asked English Content questions. Unless you are familiar with the course and have taught it, it would be riddiculous to expect you to know. With all due respect, the English hours should be given to an English teacher.
Best of luck with the interview, fingers crossed

TheDriver

LeonDen wrote: »

I've got called for an interview next week for a geography, history and English job however, I'm only TC qualified in geog and hist. (The panel should know this from my app form) Any advice on how to answer any English qs thrown my way?

I can't think of any teacher that would be registered in all 3. Having said that, applicants that don't meet the criteria are usually not called to interview so maybe they realised there was no one applying with this combo