Proposed revision of European and World records

Chivito550

robinph wrote: »

Resetting the records just says that they are out of ideas and that records are their only selling point.

Resetting records is pointless. We all know that the new records aren't the real ones. The athletes who get awarded them know this too. By all means scrap the records where there is evidence of cheating (state sponsored doping in GDR, USSR etc, and athlete who tested positive at any point in their career, dramatic changes in physique etc), but wiping all records pre 2005 is lazy and does nothing to actually solve the problem of doping.

walshb

Chivito550 wrote: »

dramatic changes in physique etc),

Any other ridiculous criteria to add?

Chivito550

walshb wrote: »

Any other ridiculous criteria to add?

Haha. I admit you can't really pin people on this particular one, no matter how obvious a sign of doping a sudden deepening of ones voice at the age of 28 is.

GDR and USSR records shouldn't be allowed stand though, given we know that state sponsored doping went on.

walshb

Chivito550 wrote: »

Haha. I admit you can't really pin people on this particular one, no matter how obvious a sign of doping a sudden deepening of ones voice at the age of 28 is.

GDR and USSR records shouldn't be allowed stand though, given we know that state sponsored doping went on.

But surely some world records set by Russians or Germans were not due to state sponsored doping? Do they get scrapped because of nationality? Bubka......what about his record outdoors?

Chivito550

I must say it is hilarious that the women's WR will be removed from Flojo, and given to Carmalita Jeter. That makes a mockery of the whole thing. Strip Jonathon Edwards and Colin Jackson of their records, and give one to a woman who jumped from 11.4 aged 26, to 10.6 aged 29. Nothing to see there!

Chivito550

walshb wrote: »

But surely some world records set by Russians or Germans were not due to state sponsored doping? Do they get scrapped because of nationality? Bubka......what about his record outdoors?

Well Bubka continued on after the fall of communism and set his final WR in 1994. Could argue a case for him regarding performances post 1990. Most athletes from communist era disappeared after the fall of the wall. In terms of GDR, Heike Drechsler was pretty much the only big GDR name who was seen competing for a unified Germany. There wasn't a lot of choice in the matter for athletes under these regimes, so I'd personally give some leeway to those who still managed to compete after this era.

Oiriallach

As far as I know, the proposal is not to reassign the pre-2005 records to any other existing performance. So Flo-Jo's record, for example, would not go to Jeter. Instead I think they plan to set a standard and, after the old record is wiped, the first future performance to beat that standard will be regarded as the new record.

Chivito550

Oiriallach wrote: »

As far as I know, the proposal is not to reassign the pre-2005 records to any other existing performance. So Flo-Jo's record, for example, would not go to Jeter. Instead I think they plan to set a standard and, after the old record is wiped, the first future performance to beat that standard will be regarded as the new record.

That's even more ridiculous than giving it to Jeter. So Bolt gets to keep his records, while other post 2005 athletes can't get upgraded because the original record is held by somebody pre-2005.

The Rape of Lucretia

Coe has to relinquish his for the process to have credibility.
Is he in or out of the new ones, and has he made any comment on his own records in relation to this himself ?

walshb

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Coe has to relinquish his for the process to have credibility.
Is he in or out of the new ones, and has he made any comment on his own records in relation to this himself ?

I don't think Coe holds any records..Kipketer has the European I believe over 800.

micar

Very interesting section about it on Off The Ball on newstalk this evening

Section was called "should the records be erased?"

The Rape of Lucretia

walshb wrote: »

I don't think Coe holds any records..Kipketer has the European I believe over 800.

European 1000m, so pretty minor. Its the principal that counts though.

El Caballo

walshb wrote: »

I don't think Coe holds any records..Kipketer has the European I believe over 800.

Coe has the 1000m record. Yes I know but he does.

Chivito550

"O'Callaghan compared the changes to English football introducing the Premier League above the First Division in 1992 and rugby union's Five Nations becoming the Six Nations in 2000, and said the records will be "recalibrated"."

This is pure nonsense. Can't believe he actually said this.

overpronator

So what are the chances of it being ratified in its current form? Based purely from the noises Coe has made it seems likely?

IvoryTower

If i thought they wouldnt be replaced by other dopers id be all for it

Pherekydes

I presume they'll be wiping all national records under the same criteria.

Sounds like a plan to engineer more records at more meets to try to keep up with the big hyped sports.

They should take a leaf out of the biggest sport in the USA: stop testing!
No tests = no positives = no cheats = no bad publicity

Chivito550

Pherekydes wrote: »

I presume they'll be wiping all national records under the same criteria.

Sounds like a plan to engineer more records at more meets to try to keep up with the big hyped sports.

They should take a leaf out of the biggest sport in the USA: stop testing!
No tests = no positives = no cheats = no bad publicity

That's the model the so called "clean sports" adopt. Soccer, rugby, tennis. Very successful business model. Fools gullible people into thinking these sports are clean. Biggest mistake athletics ever made from a PR point of view was to publicise every misdemeanour. Educated sports fans see through the other sports, but most sports fans aren't very knowledgeable about doping, so this approach really works.

It never ceases to amaze me how people who are quick to make judgments about one sport will happily sit down on a bar stool and not for a second doubt what they watched at the Santiago Bernabeu last night.

Skid X

I don't know how anyone who eclipses an arbitrary "record" could honestly celebrate as if they had passed the All Time Mark.

Imagine the farce if Jonathan Edwards commentates on a Triple Jump "World Record" which falls short of his 18.29?

walshb

Skid X wrote: »

I don't know how anyone who eclipses an arbitrary "record" could honestly celebrate as if they had passed the All Time Mark.

Imagine the farce if Jonathan Edwards commentates on a Triple Jump "World Record" which falls short of his 18.29?

Jumping (long and triple) records for me never had the same accuracy/verification that track running events have. Too much reliance on the human eye.

Chivito550

walshb wrote: »

Jumping (long and triple) records for me never had the same accuracy/verification that track running events have. Too much reliance on the human eye.

The mark in the sand not accurate enough for you?

average_runner

Chivito550 wrote: »

That's the model the so called "clean sports" adopt. Soccer, rugby, tennis. Very successful business model. Fools gullible people into thinking these sports are clean. Biggest mistake athletics ever made from a PR point of view was to publicise every misdemeanour. Educated sports fans see through the other sports, but most sports fans aren't very knowledgeable about doping, so this approach really works.

It never ceases to amaze me how people who are quick to make judgments about one sport will happily sit down on a bar stool and not for a second doubt what they watched at the Santiago Bernabeu last night.

Ah come on, A football match in Spain, two clubs with no history drug taking, like their national side, who happened to dip in form when they started to get tested.

What are you implying

walshb

Chivito550 wrote: »

The mark in the sand not accurate enough for you?

Not really....eyeballs and sand....it's self explanatory!

Chivito550

walshb wrote: »

Not really....eyeballs and sand....it's self explanatory!

A mark is left in the sand. It doesn't get any easier than that. Now the take off board, that's a different story.